Salam Bro,

Great post, should give credit to DR Imad Hassan

Dear all...

I have been suspicious of something concerning livestock. The question has to do with the shaytan deceiving mankind, and swearing an oath to Allah to lead the progeny of Adam astray.

I think there is a mistake in the classical interpretation / translation of the following passage

{"And I will misguide them and make them desire, and I will command them, so that they will mark the ears of the livestock, and I will command them so they will make changes to the creation of Allah." Whoever takes the devil as a supporter other than Allah, then he has indeed lost a great loss}...

The sentence marked in red, in some translations, is rendered as "clip the ears of the livestock". Does this make sense from the shaytan's point of view? Just what is so great about "marking" or "clipping" the ears of the livestock that is making the shaytan boast about that to Allah?

Let's think logically In many instances and other passages of the Quran, we find the shaytan is promising Allah that he will lead the vast majority of humanity astray, and make them desire worldly things, and compete and boast among themselves about mansions, and wealth and children and ownership of livestock.

How does "marking the ears" or "clipping the ears" of the livestock fit with this boast? Do people still mark or clip the ears of livestock today? The answer is obviously NO. So where is the credibility of the sign in 4119 then?

I think we are missing something here.

For those members who have good knowledge of Arabic linguistics, I think the word "bataka" , whose derivative "youbattikounna" appears in the 4119, needs to be analyzed profoundly.

It has come to my knowledge that bataka means to mask or confound or confuse or muffle the sound of something. I am quite confident that something along that line can be found in the classical lexicons.

If that is the case, then another question poses itself how does someone mask/confound/confuse the ears of livestock? The answer is quite simple One doesn't.

The word "azhan" , which appears in 4119, does NOT mean "ears". It means announcement/call. (Like the azhan that is heard from the mosques 5 times a day).

Once we have put these things in mind, the passage then becomes clear, and is rendered as follows

{"And I will misguide them and make them desire, and I will command them, so that they will confound/muffle/mask the announcement/call of the livestock, and I will command them so they will make changes to the creation of Allah." Whoever takes the devil as a supporter other than Allah, then he has indeed lost a great loss}...

What's being proposed here is that there is something about livestock - in particular, four species of livestock - that humans have failed to understand. These four species are exclusively cows, sheep, goats, and camels.

These animals have been trying to tell us something...to announce something to us, but due to the machinations of the shaytan, their announcement has been muffled or confounded.

Can you guess what that is?

{It has been adorned for people to love the desire of nisa'a, and monuments, and ornaments made from gold and silver, and trained horses, and livestock, and fields. These are the enjoyment of the world, and with Allah is the best abode}...

Note how, in the above sign, horses are NOT included among the livestock (an3am). A clear distinction is made between them in the sentence, by means of the article "and".

1- In these four species of animals are SPECIAL signs for us

{And the livestock He has created them for you, in them is warmth and benefits, and from them you eat}...

{And for you there is a lesson in the livestock; We give you to drink from what is in its belly between the digested food and the blood, a pure milk which is relieving for the drinkers}...

{Eat and raise your livestock, in that are signs for those of thought}...

{And in the livestock are lessons for you. We give you to drink from what is in its bellies, and you have many other benefits from them, and of them you eat}...

2- These four species in particular (cow, goat, sheep and camel) are completely dependent on and subservient to mankind. Their dependence and subservience to us is unequalled and unparalleled in any other species. Has anyone ever contemplated that?

Think of the cow, for instance. You put a cow in a wild place, like a forest or desolate wilderness location, away from civilization, and guaranteed in will die in a matter of weeks, if not days. It simply cannot survive on its own. The same is true for the sheep, goat, and camel. Sure, the camel is built for desert travel (in that is a sign as well), but can a camel live independent of man?

Some of you will say "Big deal. That's why they are domesticated animals". That observation is actually not accurate. A cat is an excellent example of a domesticated animal. Yet, the cat can live perfectly well on its own, if set loose in the wild. It is equipped to do so. So is a dog. Man's best friend, the dog, can live on its own once it reaches adulthood. Livestock simply cannot.

Try taking your dog or cat to the slaughterhouse, and put its neck under the blade. What will it do? The instant it feels danger, it will probably gouge your eyes out or bite your nose off. This is because it can feel, by instinct, the danger. Livestock cannot. A sheep, after years of giving you wool and milk, will put out its neck for you and ask no questions whatsoever. Interesting, isn't it?

We are talking about complete, and unquestionable subservience to man. And this subservience was described in the Quran by the term ?dhalalna?, which appears in 3672. This word comes from ?dhull? (&#1617, and carries an almost demeaning kind of submission. No other animal is described as such.

{Did they not see that We created for them with Our own hands livestock which they own? * And they were subdued by Us for them. So some they ride, and some they eat}....

{Allah is the One who made the livestock for you that you may ride on some of them, and some of them you eat}...

3- Livestock are extremely STUPID animals. You can easily verify their stupidity in your everyday life. The Qur'an itself attests to this fact

{Or do you think that most of them hear or comprehend? They are just like livestock. No, they are worse off}...

{Allah admits those who believe and do good works to gardens with rivers flowing beneath them. As for those who reject, they are enjoying and eating as the livestock eat, and the Fire will be their abode}....

The above sign describes very well the godless and inhuman leaders and politicians of this world They chew their food like livestock chew grass, while seemingly completely oblivious to the suffering they are causing, just as livestock are oblivious to their fate.

Still...there is something else...an expression used by the Quran to describe the creation of livestock that was not used to describe any other animal...

{He created you from (the essence of) a single soul, then He made from it its mate. And He sent down to you eight pairs of the livestock. He creates you in the wombs of your mothers, a creation after a creation in three darknesses. Such is Allah your Rabb. To Him belongs the sovereignty. There is no god besides Him. How is it then you deviate?}...

Why 8 pairs? Because there are 4 species, and each species has male + female (4x2=. These are

{And from the livestock are those for burden, and also for clothing. Eat from what Allah has provided you and do not follow the footsteps of the shaytan; he is to you a clear enemy * Eight in pairs from the lambs two, and from the goats two. Say "Is it the two males that He forbade or the two females, or what the wombs of the two females bore? Inform me if you are truthful!" * And from the camels two, and from the cattle two. Say "Is it the two males that He forbade or the two females, or what the wombs of the two females bore? Or were you witnesses when Allah ordered you with this?" Who is more wicked than he who invents lies about Allah to misguide the people without knowledge. Allah does not guide the wicked people}...

There they are, the four species cows, sheep, goats and camels. They are unlike any other species on earth.

What if they didn't come from Earth, but were sent down from some place? As crazy as that sounds, that's exactly what the Quran is telling us

{And He sent down to you eight pairs of the livestock}

When Allah says He "sent down" something, and when that thing is physical and tangible, then you can bet He means it literally.

Example He sends down water from the sky to sprout vegetation and trees of all kinds, bearing fruits of all flavors.

Example He sent down iron, which humans use to make tools for benefit and weapons of war

{And We sent down the iron, wherein there is great strength, and many benefits for the people}...

Which iron is Allah talking about here? Obviously it is not he molten iron that is found in the core of the earth. This core iron is a liquid iron, which humans cannot reach anyway. The passage in 5725 is talking about the solid iron ore that we extract from the crust of the earth to make tools and weapons with. This iron was apparently not an Earthly mineral, but come from space somewhere.

So when Allah says that He brought down iron to earth He means exactly that. In the same way, He is telling us that he brought down 4 species of completely subservient livestock. This event occurred at around the same period when Adam (the father of the Homo-Sapien species) appeared on the planet. This can only mean that livestock did not exist during the era of the primitive humanoid (Cro-Magnon) man, but were somehow ?brought down? to Adam and his progeny for a specific reason and purpose.

I think we need to look further into this issue. The truth about livestock will ultimately lead us to the true purpose of Hajj and the hunting restirctions that Allah has set forth.

http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/cow1.jpg
Are they trying to tell us something?

Alsalm 3alikum

Excellent post brother Alkitabm, I do agree with your observation on 17-2/3
also the context of the following verses confirm what you've said that the verse is talking about Israel progeny and not Mousa.

But the verse posted by sister Ayisha indicate that there we prophets from the progeny of Israel,

45.16

doesn't mean prophethood ?

Thank you,

Where on earth do you get this false prophets to do with Israel from???

45.16 We did aforetime grant to the Children of Israel the Book the Power of Command, and Prophethood; We gave them, for Sustenance, things good and pure; and We favoured them above the nations.

As Torah says too they were favoured by God because they were from Abrahams line through Isaac as I went through on the other Israel thread. GOD is saying the prophets are from this line and YOU claim they are the line of false prophets?? Seriously where do you get this from??

Dear brother,

Just one note doesn't mean beast cattle else it would be redundant
Al-Anaam ( &#1616 means cattle
Baheema ( ) means vague/ mysterious/obscure its is like

Excuse me brother, if you use wiki sunni history, you better changer your mind, because ROMA isn't called AROOM in, arabic, but Al ROUMAN

Alroom simply means the army, it is the muslim army

Dear Brother,

I am not taking wikipedia as the source of my knowledge, I simply sent you a link on wikipedia because it shows the history in Muslim eyes ( they thought they won in Mutah) but when you read it carefully they actually lost.

now back to Ghalabat(won) Rome or Gholibat(lost) Rome, the verse should read like this"

Rome Won, ...................................... and after that they will lose..................................... and believers will rejoice

Many of tafaseer even indicates that it could be read with kasra ( Rome won), Tabari.. etc

( &#1615 .

{ } .

?

Brother loxbox13,

I do agree with you on your skepticsims why would Believers be joyful when Pagan Christian Amry of Roma defates Pagan Army of Persian.

You have to notice that the two parties involved in the battles are mentioned in the ayyat ( Alroom and the Believers), so the battle has to be between Alroom and the believers, the thing is that the dialectical marks are messed up, the verse should be with Fatha and not Kasra (Ghalabat Alroom=Rome Won) and NOT (Gholibat Alroom= Rome Lost).

Believers are sad because Rome won over them, and Allah swt is promising believers of later victory.

I believe the ayyat are talking about Muta battle where the muslim went after the ruler of Balqa killed the messenger of the prophet, Balqa is in modern day Jordan. Muslims were effectively defeated by the romans, the battle took place in year 8 hijri. http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mu%27tah

The Muslims retaliated and the Rome was defeated in the battle of Yarmouk in year 13 hijri. http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Yarmouk

Mister Aymen, I respect you a lot, and admire your sincere search of truth, but in this one, I totally agree with with what "Alkitab" posted
the Arabic language is as modern as english, frensh and other europeen languages, tha anciant languages are , the Quran language, maybe latin, hindu etc
the arabic language is inspired from the quran, and made up to alter the senses of the words , for exemple, the word ALHAMD, which is used to mean THANK , just as choukr, but inreality , when you study the word, it means something greater than that, it means the COMMAND

exemple, proof from the quran , the KAFIROON, responded by HAMDI of their Lord

• 52 -

The day he'll call you and you responds by his command and you will believe you rested only a little 1752

I give you another exemple, these people who invented languages and fabricated them when colonising the world, wanted to change the whole HISTORY , to keep controlling in the future
look at the word ALROOM
1 -

2 -
the ROOM was defeated
3 -
in the lowest land, and after their defeat, they will be victorious
4 -
in a few years, for Allah are the affairs from before and after, and that moment will be joyfull for MUMINUN
5 -
With the triumph of Allah, he'll triumph whom he wills and he is the supreme, the mercifull

When I read these verses, I ask a question, why would the mouslim be joyfull and happy, with the victory of a foreign nation, agaist another foreign nation, while they're both non muslims ? Why would Allah promiss a victory to muslims, while the victory isn't their and they have nothing to do in that war ? and the best is, why allah calls that victory of a non muslim nation, NASR ALLAH ?
this whole thing stink SATAN explanation in history and hadith books
when you study the quran alone , you get this

• 9 - 17 - 179

RAMAYT - RAMA

• 7 - 94 - 123

RIMAHA-KUM
therefore, Rama and rimah etc... all this together is called ARMY
ALROOM = ARMY, this sourah is talking about a defeat of the muslim army, and the promise was made that they will be victorious
here prophecy fullfilled

• • 1 -

when came the victory of Allah and triumph

• • 22 -

And when the MUMINUN saw the faderates, they said this is what been promissed to us by allah and his messenger, allah is truthfull and his messenger, and it added to them only safety and peace

the sourah alroom , sall be translated like this
1 -
A L M
2 -
the Army was defeated
3 -
in the lowes land, and after their defeat, they will be victorious
4 -
in a few years, to Allaj are the affairs from before and after, and in that moment will be joyfull for MUMINUN
5 -
With the triumph of Allah, he'll triumph whom he wills and he is the supreme, the mercifull

IT MAKES P?RFECT SENSE ( TO ME )vv
and conclusion
Alroom = Army , perfect match , Etymology way speaking

I suggest, Take in consideration that the language of the quran, is the 1st language intelligent men were inspired FROM ALLAH, at least, give a prooof that the language of the quran , is just another langue made by man , or the TONGUE inspired from the begining
I use to laugh at Arabs when they say Arabic is the origin of all languages, but after study, I realised that ARABS are wrong, because the quran isn't arabic language, but it contains all languages of the world

BY The way , JUNUD isn't persian , it simply means AGENTS , when Allah speaks of Agents we don't see, he's talking about secret agents, and not some spirits from another dimension, but men , agents

Again intellectual dishonesty.

Do not curse the idols they set up beside GOD, lest they blaspheme and curse GOD, out of ignorance. We have adorned the works of every group in their eyes. Ultimately, they return to their Lord, then He informs them of everything they had done.

This is so weird; Mighty God is concerned that the Idols worshippers might curse him!?
What a tragedy!? This sounds that Mighty God lacks any self confidence!

???

So respecting other religions and beliefs is considered lack of confidence? I see the contrary to your bogus claims.

What does it fair wuth your Talmud? does your talmud encourage respect and freedom of belief as Quran do?!

Thank you @Abdul-Hakeem for your reply.

About what you say about Muhammad, it is quite possible that he had good memory and memorized well the Jewish and Xtian stories. Even today there are Rabbiies who know entire Holy Talmud by heart, and there are wise men and Jewish sages who know entire Holy Tanah by herat.

I agree with you that this guys is not that brilliant. But he pointed out some interesting questions.

This is quite disturbing

They even set aside a share of GOD's provisions of crops and livestock, saying, "This share belongs to GOD," according to their claims, "and this share belongs to our idols." However, what was set aside for their idols never reached GOD, while the share they set aside for GOD invariably went to their idols. Miserable indeed is their judgment.

Poor Mighty God, he was cheated by the Idols for his portion of the provisions of crops and livestock!
I guess Prophet Mohammad was hallucinating when he revealed this beauty! The same goes for the following verse

Do not curse the idols they set up beside GOD, lest they blaspheme and curse GOD, out of ignorance. We have adorned the works of every group in their eyes. Ultimately, they return to their Lord, then He informs them of everything they had done.

This is so weird; Mighty God is concerned that the Idols worshippers might curse him!?
What a tragedy!? This sounds that Mighty God lacks any self confidence!

???

I think what you've said is the most racist antisemitic unintelligent thing i heard for years.

• Many of the Muslims are backwards today because the follow backward hadith.
• The mainly successful "jews" are mainly of secular/atheist or they don't follow the most backward criminal back ever made "Talmud"
• There are many of the jews as well who follow talmud and they are more backward than current muslims, you should check Kharidi and Masorti jews.

http//www.aljazeerah.info/Opinion%20editorials/2004%20opinions/March/23%20o/The%20Talmud,%20Racism,%20Hatred%20and%20Anti-Christism%20By%20John%20Anast.htm

-Now for God promise, wasn't it given to Beni Israel? what does the Khazarian so-called jews have to do with the promise to beni Israel?!!, Beni Israel is most probably today Palestinians, Yemenis,..., How come a Khazrian who want to be associate themselvces to Judea geography are now even claiming to be Israelites.

• I noticed that when a fake khazarian jew is confronted , DNA and other red herrings are mentioned. Even the Jewish Encyclopedia indicated that Ashkenazi Khazarian jews are more than 90% of the jews, just few years back it was removed.

Finally if you are saying that following the Talmud will make you more advanced, intelligent, civilized, .. etc and you've READ it, and you believe that and I think you are not intellectually honest and you didn't learn anything on this forum, I am not sure what is you agenda here but I hope God guide you to the right path.

It is utterly unimportant what do I believe in, isn't it?

But had I to choose, merely from the end-result pint of view, hadiths made Muslims stupid, backward and retarded, and Talmud, Mishna etc made Jews successful, intelligent and wise, I would choose the rich Jewish survival philosophy.

And there are even proofs, that God gave both written, and oral law, to His chosen people.
And He also promised that however Israel is behaving badly or being problematic, He will never replace His chosen people with another one! And today we see His promise fulfilled.

Now, remember, as I wrote elsewhere, being a Jew is not a question of DNA, or culture, or Ethnos or customs! (not going to explain it again)

Hello @abuamrrami,
Of course I know everything about Karaite movement, but since this is mainly an Islamic Forum, it would be too extensive to cover all the proofs and reasons for The Rabbinical Judaism, and the proof for the oral law, here.

So basically you don't believe in hadith but you believe in oral law?

Thank you for the link, it is interesting.

But you see, being Jewish is not a question of DNA! It is not a question of body, or customs, or cultural identity. It is a question of the soul. To be Jewish, you have to have a Jewish Soul, which G-d gives directly to whom He wants.

There are many Jews today who would be surprised to know that they are not actually Jewish, similar to many Muslims or Xtians who might discover that they might be Jewish, because of too many conversions (both directions) during the history.

If someone wants to become Jewish or to examine and check if he is Jewish, it has to be done in a halakha way by a real true orthodox authority.

peace

Bro I am not sure what you call yourself, but this is what I think regarding Islam, Christianity and Judaism;

The deen authorized by allah is Islam; Noah, Moses, Issa, Ibrahim, Solomon, Lott., Mohammd,,, etc all were muslims they never called themselves; jews or xtians or sunnis.

The same as Sunnis, Jews are fixated with Tamuldic Judiasm, the Arab tribe of beni Israel in Arabia didn't know or follow the Talmud which is way worst than Albukhari IMHO.

Most of Beni Israel, Beni Hatem, Beni Hassan.... etc of Arab tribes converted to Islam, some of them who settled in modern day Palestine who later converted from Judaism to Islam after Sunni conquest.

Then bunch of eastern european khazarians wanted to claim the history of Beni Israel. These Khazarian Talmudic jews are no better than Abu Hurira or Bukhari.

Check the Karaite movement, it's similar to Quran only movement.

It is much better not to know anything, then to know a little, and even that little, to know it wrong way ...

(nothing personal, not directed to anyone!)

Check this out https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sdiAl9OayA

The Jews are the only monotheists ever.
Muslims worship Muhammad, Xtians worship Jesus.

What a twisted facts you have.

First of all the current Jews (Khazarian jews) has nothing to do with jews in the quran.

Until the fake Khazarian Ashkenazi jews came to Palestine, the authentic jews are the Arab yemeni and Iraqi jews.

So Quran was not talking about the Ashkenazi jews, Quran was mentioning Arab jews all along.

You have to realize that Jews are not a nation, like there are arab Muslims and Arab christians, there are arab jews.

there is no such jewsish nation, Beni Israel is an yemeni arabic tribe, like beni hasan, beni harith,.. etc

Anti-antisemitism was invented by Moritz Steinschneider who is a Ashkenazi Khazarian jew.

your claim that muslims worship mohammad is baseless.

-Salam Bro theNabster

Refer to Quran 522

522 They said "O Moses, in it are a mighty people, and we will not enter it until they leave from it. So when they leave from it, then we will enter."

The world " jabar" means 3mlaq

powerful, tremendous,huge, giant, colossal, superhuman, strongman, titan

Sakhr dictionary

http//qamoos.sakhr.com/SearchResults.aspx

Salam bro pazuzu,

does the word
3mlaq

which in common arabic means powerful/strong/huge/amazing comes as a reference to the strength of the Amalekites (3malikes) in their powerful days?...

a bit like the reference to "strong as a Turkman" in the days of the Ottoman empire?

-Peace

80-90% of jews today are Ashkenazi jews , most probably from Khazaria according to Israeli historian Shlomo Sand.

How do you explain the existence of millions of jews in eastern Europe ( Lithuania, Ukraine, Poland.. etc) and also Germany, they spoke Yiddish language, they have no connection whatsoever to the Israelites

Also keep in mind that Mezrahi jews are humiliated today in Israel, http//socyberty.com/history/stories-of-the-stolen-jewish-yemeni-children/

When Allah, the Exalted not only recognizes them as a distinctly identified nation, but also indicates that they will survive till the Last Day, what is the problem with the rest of world not to recognize them as nation and accept their right to have a land/country to live therein according to their will and choice?

-Salam

It seems you guys are missing 2132

And Abraham enjoined his sons and Jacob "O my sons, God has selected the system for you, so do not die except as ones who have submitted."

The above translation is FM translation, I believe it should be translated like this

And Abraham enjoined his sons and likewise did Jacob "O my sons, God has selected the system for you, so do not die except as ones who have submitted."

Salaam Pazuzu
Thank you for reminding 2;133 this sliped my mind.
Jazakallah Khair

• Peace Youssef,

I believe the translation you provided is not accurate

And we raised Mount Sinai above them, as we took their covenant. And we said to them, "Enter the gate humbly." And we said to them, "Do not desecrate the Sabbath." Indeed, we took from them a solemn covenant.(4154)

It should translate and we said to them don't transgress in the matter of Sabbath translating it to do not desecrate the sabbath is wrong.

If you say in Arabic it should translate " And we said to them don't transgress in this matter", but if you use the logic in translation you posted it should be like " Don't desecrate this matter".

the word desecrate is simply not there, means transgress.

Now can you please explain why God punished the jews for observing sabbath in verse 7163

7163. Ask them concerning the town present by the sea when they transgressed in the matter of the day of rest. When on the day they are resting, their fish come to them openly near the shore and on the day that they are not resting, they came not. Thus We made a trial of them because of what they were transgressing.

Quoted from brother Ayman

Here are the points that can be easily seen from 7163

1. Those people were ACTUALLY observing the day of rest and on that day where they actually rested (for example, Saturday in the case of Jews) the fish would come to them.
2. On the other days where they didn't rest (the other days of the week), the fish wouldn't come.
3. (1) and (2) was how THEY WERE PUNISHED. So clearly they were punished by not getting any fish. This is the only punishment possible in the passage. The only way that this punishment would occur is if they actually OBSERVED the day of rest. In fact, had they "desecrated" the day of rest then they would get all the fish and that would be a good thing for them NOT punishment.
4. We are told that this punishment is a result of what they were transgressing. Now notice here the perfect tense to denote something that they actually did. The only thing that they did in the passage is that they rested on a certain day.
5. Given the above, there can be only one possibility, which is that the transgression in the day of rest is in the observing of the day of rest.

So what it is that makes it a transgression? In Arabic, the person who acts the verb of "ya3doo" or the action of "3idwan" is called "3adow". This word "3adow" is used in 6112 to describe those who invent lies. So the transgression is in inventing the lie that The God ordered us to rest on a certain arbitrary day of the arbitrary man-made week. So you can rest and take any day or two off but don't say that this is decreed by The God!

The question I have for you, why is it that Allah swt only required from jews to observe Sabbath?, Why muslims are not required to observe Sabbath?

-Peace brother youssef,

actually in Quran Allah "swt" chastises the jews for inventing the concept of Sabath, in Quran Allah tells us repeatedly that jews where punished for inventing Sabath ( and not for not observing sabath).

Many muslims believe that Jews were punished for not observing Sabath, but it is quite the contrary they were punished for inventing the concept of Sabath.

Check this thread http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12139.40

Peace all,

Thank brothers Kyle and Arnold for your kind comments and for appreciating the amazing logic of the passages.

This is a corrupted translation that has been twisted perhaps to justify the Jewish claim that The God decreed a day of rest. The word "desecrated" doesn't occur in the passage at all. The exact word is "as7ab"/ which literally means "companions/owners". So those who are cursed are those who are companions/owners of the day of rest (i.e., those who observe it) NOT those who "desecrated" it! This corrupt translation has twisted the meaning around and made it the exact opposite of what the passage is actually saying.

Again, the word "desecrated" doesn't occur at all in the passage. A better translation is as follows

7163. Ask them concerning the town present by the sea when they transgressed in the matter of the day of rest. When on the day they are resting, their fish come to them openly near the shore and on the day that they are not resting, they came not. Thus We made a trial of them because of what they were transgressing.

Here are the points that can be easily seen from 7163

1. Those people were ACTUALLY observing the day of rest and on that day where they actually rested (for example, Saturday in the case of Jews) the fish would come to them.
2. On the other days where they didn't rest (the other days of the week), the fish wouldn't come.
3. (1) and (2) was how THEY WERE PUNISHED. So clearly they were punished by not getting any fish. This is the only punishment possible in the passage. The only way that this punishment would occur is if they actually OBSERVED the day of rest. In fact, had they "desecrated" the day of rest then they would get all the fish and that would be a good thing for them NOT punishment.
4. We are told that this punishment is a result of what they were transgressing. Now notice here the perfect tense to denote something that they actually did. The only thing that they did in the passage is that they rested on a certain day.
5. Given the above, there can be only one possibility, which is that the transgression in the day of rest is in the observing of the day of rest.

So what it is that makes it a transgression? In Arabic, the person who acts the verb of "ya3doo" or the action of "3idwan" is called "3adow". This word "3adow" is used in 6112 to describe those who invent lies. So the transgression is in inventing the lie that The God ordered us to rest on a certain arbitrary day of the arbitrary man-made week. So you can rest and take any day or two off but don't say that this is decreed by The God!

The only way that people will not differ on a day of rest is if they didn't take it as a "Holy-day". So for me, I couldn't care less if suddenly the government changes the weekend so that it is now Monday and Tuesday. However, in Muslim countries, sectarians will riot in support of Friday and in Christian countries, Trinitarians will boycott this government and stage sit-ins and demonstrations and in Israel, the government would fall the next day. In fact, it is so important to Christians that when the calendar was changed from the Julian to the Gregorian, ten days were taken out but the days of the week were kept in sequence because they thought that this way their "Holy-day" wouldn't get messed up.

It is not "when yaumu-sabt was going on" it is "when on the day they are resting". This is a big difference. In your statement they are passive and in the actual statement from the great reading they are actually doing the action of resting. It is a big difference because this indisputably shows that they were actually OBSERVING the day of rest and NOT "desecrating" it as the corrupt translations claim. So this is their transgression that they were being punished for. In fact, they should have "desecrated" this man-made day of rest and in this case they would not have been punished and they would have got all the fish.

Peace,

Ayman

Sabath was created by Jews and god has nothing to do with it.

Peace abuamrrami peace
I think you have misunderstood what i meant. Yes God Almighty indeed created the Heaven/Earth/What's in between Complex in 6 Days (i.e 6 Heavenly days = 6,000) years (this is not accounting the fact of the time that it took between the initial place of the start of creation(i.e where it first took place), and the expansion of it, since the universe is expanding (5147), this might explain why the universe is not just 6,000 years, but billions of years old. (meaning you have to account for the initial 6,000 years of creation AND the time of the expansion of the creation).

Now this "6 days", which are really 6,000 years, are "translated" in our humanly terms as 6 days. Now if you look in the bible you will see that God Almighty "instructs" the children of Israel to work on 6 days, and stop working on the 7th, just like he did work 6 "days" (i.e day=time period), and stoped on the 7th. This is called the Sabbath day.
Now if you look in the Quran, God Almighty cites to us the Sabbath as well. This would mean that OUR numbering of DAYS (i.e day= time period/cycle) would be confirmed as 7 days per cycle (week).
Otherwise, what is the Sabbath? How did people transgress the sabbath in 4154 and how did they transgress the sabbath by going fishing (i.e work) in 7163?
We cannot totaly disbelieve in the Previous sciptures when God Almighty states to believe in them (4136)
peace

-Salam

Word for word

He
First
and
Last
and
evident
and
immanent
and
he
in every
thing
Knowledgeable

I think Yusuf Ali's translation is correct
He is the First and the Last, the Evident and the Immanent and He has full knowledge of all things.

I do wonder if I have the correct meaning of 573. I have studied religion for nearly 10 years now, and was wondering about it`s meaning.

I do have reached some level of certanity. Probably beyond normal interpretations. To me it`s all about Islam, and what the Quran really says.

I would translate it like this

573 He is the first, the last, the aware and the hidden, and he has knowledge of everything.

-Peace

There is an excellent book by the Israeli historian Shlomo Sand called ?the invention of the jewish people?, his conclusions were that exodus didn?t take place and the Romans didn?t expel the jews. http//www.amazon.ca/Invention-Jewish-People-Shlomo-Sand/dp/1844676234/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1322402921&sr=8-1

There is a Radio interview with Shlomo Sand
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjF6tOlNagk
He has a complete lecture by Shlomo Sand also http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EmvANgw9Mk

Without serious excavations in Saudi Arabia the stories of the bible ( Solomon, David, Moses, Exodus.. etc) will remain a myth since there is no archeological evidence to support their existence in Palestine.

Isareli government is not happy with these University professors and the heads of Israeli antiquities authority, this why they wants to start interfering with the appointments of the antiquity authority

http//www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/scholars-slam-bill-to-change-makeup-of-israel-antiquities-authority-1.397918

Salam yossef,

yawm is not in anyway a "day", yawm in quran means a period/phase/time.

The creation of the universe didn't happen in 6/7 earthly days, how was day one and day two counted when the sun and earth weren't even created yet. ( earth has to orbit the sun for 24 hours).

This is why quran reminds us in several places that God days are different than our days in several places ( check 325, 704....)

In fact time concept doesn't even apply to God, God created time.

• Peace

Peace everyone peace
A point to be said is that there has to be 7 days in a week, in order to conform with the sabbath.
The Almighty did indeed create the heavens/earth and what's in between in 6 days, and then he obviously stopped after the 6th day. This is where the sabbath is stipulated from, because the Almighty finished/stopped working on his creation after the 6th day.

Wow,

Great stuff Pazuzu.

You helped me a lot connect the dots.

I now know why Zionists are desperate to find anything to prove their claims to Palestine.

I am not sure if you guys remember the greatest forgery that was exposed regarding the tablet of Solomon and the tomb of the brother of jesus that was exposed in 2003 which basically has shattering consequences and showed that most of the biblical era artifacts found in museums all over the world proved to be forged.

A BBC documentary on this scandal

King Solomon's Tablet Of Stone
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xlBI8ENkqk

its 5 parts