Salaam,
What exactly are you trying to say with this ?
and if your family isnt here ever heard of internet? why can they both come from the msn live voice chat and if they dont have it then you can buy them what they need and if oyu cant afford it then i can see why your wife isnt happy if your not resposnsible enought to have at least 20 bucks that is bad......
Peace,
Request you to add this verse too to the discusssion.
3337
And you said to the one who was blessed by God, and blessed by you "Keep your wife and reverence God," and you hid inside yourself what God wished to proclaim. And you feared the people, while it was God you were supposed to fear. So when Zayd ended his relationship with his wife, We had you marry her, to establish that there is no wrongdoing for the believers in marrying the wives of their adopted sons if their relationship is ended. And God's command is always done.
Hope it adds some perspective.
We are required to fear God alone.
Peace
Ahmed
Salaam Sara,
Just thinking out loud.
Let me give two real examples.
Please let me know.
Salaam
Ahmed
Salaam Sara,
Can you help me understand the difference between items 2 and 3 ?
1.Talk about it. This is obviously the simplest and healthiest method since it opens the communication channel between both parties.
2.Abstain from sharing the same bed. This is the 2nd approach the man is advised to use if they are unable to reconcile their problem as the lack of sexual contact may lead to the wife to cool down as intimate contact may simply inflame the situation if she is unable to stand her husband.
3.Separate from each other. The 3rd and final line of advice is designed as a 'cooling-off' period and is mainly designed to help the wife re-think and examine the situation closely without the physical presence of her husband.
Salaam
Ahmed
Peace,
He was NOT imprisoned (or put in jail) for adultery.
Joseph was accused of Adultery and even though there were signs of his innocence, he was sent to Jail. He is finally proven innocent and released.
The King learns that Joseph did not seduce and orders the release. So it is obvious that he is sent to Jail for that only and not anything else. (Ofcourse we know that he was falsely accused).
If Adultery was not the crime, why was he sent to Jail ? (Request you to please put yourself in the judge's position and write down the sentence for Joseph informing of the crime and the punishment.)
Request you to please clarify.
Peace
Peace Brother,
The above incidence where she admits he refused was before his imprisonment, and this is a PUBLIC admission in front of all the women who cut their hands. In 1251, she admits his innocence for the first time in front of the King, after having unjustly imprisoned Joseph before.
If i tell my friends of something wrong i committed, i would not consider it Public. THe truth is brought out only in 1251 to everyone. Until then only her friends and family know.
Joseph was not innocent of disobeying but only of adultery. So his crime was of adultery only which was proven wrong finally and he was released.
IA I will stop here on this.
Peace Brother,
He was imprisoned because he refused to obey her command to commit adultery (1232). She probably used her influence to have him imprisoned because of that reason, probably due to her ego getting hurt, even though the signs proved his innocence.
I agree that the governor's wife had him imprisoned because Joseph refused to obey her.
My question is what was he sent to Jail for ? What was he sentenced for ? You did not answer that.
1251 answers that.
1251 He said "What is your plea that you tried to seduce Joseph from himself?" They said "God forbid that we would do any harm to him." The wife of the Governor said "Now the truth must be known, I did seek to seduce Joseph from himself and he is of the truthful ones."
The truth is that She tried to seduce him and it was brought out years later.
Joseph's innocence was indeed proved within the household at the time of incident but the truth was hidden and no one else knew until 1251
1228
When her husband saw that his garment was torn from the back, he said, "This is a woman's scheme. Indeed, your scheming is formidable.
1229
"Joseph, disregard this incident. As for you (my wife), you should seek forgiveness for your sin. You have committed an error."
So in 1251, the truth comes out that Joseph did not commmit Adultery which is why he is released. Correct ?
Salaam
Ahmed
Peace
The imprisonment of Joseph was not for committing adultery but for refusing to obey the command of the governor's wife to commit adultery with her
1232 She said "This is the one whom you blamed me for, and I have seduced him from himself but he refused. And if he does not do as I command him, he will be imprisoned, and he will be one of those disgraced."
This imprisonment was clearly not God's law as is clear from 1233-35. In any case, the punishment was not for adultery but for refusal to obey someone's command.
My understanding is different.
1235
But it appealed to them, even after they had seen the signs, to imprison him until a time.
The ones who were judging did see Joseph was innocent of Adultery but they still jailed him.
Are you saying that the Governor's wife told the people that She tried to Joseph and that Joseph didn't agree and hence he was jailed.
The governor's wife accused Joseph of Adultery and he was jailed for that.
Please see 1251 also
1251
He said "What is your plea that you tried to seduce Joseph from himself?" They said "God forbid that we would do any harm to him." The wife of the Governor said "Now the truth must be known, I did seek to seduce Joseph from himself and he is of the truthful ones."
Please let me know if i missed something.
On Wife beating in 434, I would urge you to read this article.
http//www.submission.org/women/beating.html
P.S This is not a promotion for the submission.org website.
Salaam Sister Sara,
Please read my posts carefully.
I had said this in my first post.
There is no doubt that Men and Women are considered equal as per the Quran.
I am not biased. IA you will agree.
Reg your comment
First of all that guy ahmed i eleive was his name seems to be quotng verses about beating women obviously either hes a hadith follower since he is using hadith influenced quranic translations
I am in the wrong forum. But i dont follow Hadith. The translation is from Rashad Khalifa. I am not interested in arguing which is a better translation.
My only interest is on my topic Punishment for Theft which i started because freeminds website did not reply to my email. IA I will stick to it )
If you would like to debate, please email me at [email protected].
4134
Not equal is the good response and the bad response. You shall resort to the nicest possible response. Thus, the one who used to be your enemy, may become your best friend.
Peace
Salaam
It is God's system in case of Pregnancy.
If the waiting period was not there and the woman remarried and got pregnant immediately, one would not know who the father is. (Ofcourse it is possible today)
The Father is made responsible for the Child and hence it is not really an advantage.
2228
The divorced women shall wait three menstruations (before marrying another man). It is not lawful for them to conceal what GOD creates in their wombs, if they believe in GOD and the Last Day. (In case of pregnancy,) the husband's wishes shall supersede the wife's wishes, if he wants to remarry her. The women have rights, as well as obligations, equitably. Thus, the man's wishes prevail (in case of pregnancy). GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.
Women have the right to live as long as they wish even after divorce. So they have advantage too.
2278 is very clear that Abraham was the first Muslim.
2278
You shall strive for the cause of GOD as you should strive for His cause. He has chosen you and has placed no hardship on you in practicing your religion - the religion of your father Abraham. He is the one who named you "Submitters" (Muslims) originally. Thus, the messenger shall serve as a witness among you, and you shall serve as witnesses among the people. Therefore, you shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), and hold fast to GOD; He is your Lord, the best Lord and the best Supporter.
Wa Jhid F Allhi aqqa Jihdihi Huwa Ajtabkum Wa M Jaala Alaykum F Ad-Dni Min arajin Millata 'Abkum 'Ibrhma Huwa Sammkum Al-Muslimyna Min Qablu Wa F Hdh Liyakna Ar-Raslu Shahdan Alaykum Wa Takn Shuhad'a Ala? An-Nsi Fa'aqm A-alata Wa 't Az-Zakata Wa Ataim Billhi Huwa Mawlkum Fanima Al-Mawla? Wa Ni`ma An-Naru
This religion is also called Millath-e-Ibrahim which means Religion of our Father Abraham.
Adam was the first submitter of the spiritual religion of submitting to God.
Abraham was the first submitter of the physical religion Islam.
Salaam
Salaam
There is no doubt that Men and Women are considered equal as per the Quran.
God has blessed both with certain qualities on the basis of which they have certain responsibilities.
434
The men are made responsible for the women, and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is GOD's commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them. GOD is Most High, Supreme.
Salaam
Peace
The only reason I say that imprisonment is not God's law in this case, was because it was issued by the governor's wife first. Please note, you said yourself earlier, "Since we know the punishment for adultery is not Prison"...
1232
She said, "This is the one you blamed me for falling in love with. I did indeed try to seduce him, and he refused. Unless he does what I command him to do, he will surely go to prison, and will be debased."
1233
He said, "My Lord, the prison is better than giving in to them. Unless You divert their scheming from me, I may desire them and behave like the ignorant ones."
1235
Later, they saw to it, despite the clear proofs, that they should imprison him for awhile.
I dont think we can ignore just because the governor's wife said it first. She is not issuing an order. From 1235, it is clear that he is sentenced to jail.
Also on the same lines, for the punishment for theft.
1275
They said, "The punishment, if it is found in his bag, is that the thief belongs to you. We thus punish the guilty."
1276
He then started by inspecting their containers, before getting to his brother's container, and he extracted it out of his brother's container. We thus perfected the scheme for Joseph; he could not have kept his brother if he applied the king's law. But that was the will of GOD. We exalt whomever we choose to higher ranks. Above every knowledgeable one, there is one who is even more knowledgeable.
If you look at the verse 1275, it is said by Joseph's brothers when they are asked for what was a just punishment if they were found guilty. And from 1276,we know it is not King's law. So it was Joseph's scheme to get his brother. Joseph did not issue the command.
And the punishment per 1275 is Slavery as i mentioned in my previous post.
Please correct me if i am wrong.
MA, I am learning a lot. Thanks !
Salaam
Thanks. All Praise belongs to God.
On the article, I had another question.
1275
They said, "The punishment, if it is found in his bag, is that the thief belongs to you. We thus punish the guilty."
Does this not mean that the thief becomes the owner's slave ?
The Bible also indicates the same thing.
Bible Genesis Chapter 44
10 And he said, Now also let it be according unto your words he with whom it is found shall be my servant; and ye shall be blameless.
So my question again would be .... Can we apply this today ?
Salaam
Salaam,
Thanks !
Also, it is interesting to noite the last part of the sentence. It has I.
" I personally guarantee this"
Ahmed
Salaam,
Also, can you help me understand why 1272 and 1274 has "He Said" instead of "They said" in translations on the website ? All others have used THEY.
P.S I know very little arabic )
Salaam
Ahmed
Salaam,
I would like to understand why you say that it was not God's law ?
1235
Later, they saw to it, despite the clear proofs, that they should imprison him for awhile.
From this verse, I do get the understanding that even though he tried to prove his innocence, he was jailed for adultery.
On the same lines, if you look at the punishment for theft, how does one conclude it was not king's law ?
1272
They said, "We lost the king's cup. Anyone who returns it will receive an extra camel-load; I personally guarantee this."
1274
They said, "What is the punishment for the thief, if you are liars?"
1275
They said, "The punishment, if it is found in his bag, is that the thief belongs to you. We thus punish the guilty."
1276
He then started by inspecting their containers, before getting to his brother's container, and he extracted it out of his brother's container. We thus perfected the scheme for Joseph; he could not have kept his brother if he applied the king's law. But that was the will of GOD. We exalt whomever we choose to higher ranks. Above every knowledgeable one, there is one who is even more knowledgeable.
Also, Can you help me understand what the punishment would have been otherwise ? i.e., if it had been the king's law
Thanks for being patient !!
Salaam
Ahmed
Salaam All,
Would it be OK to take Joseph's example for dealing with thieves ?
We need to look at the other example also. Why is Joseph put in Jail ? for Adultery ? Since we know the punishment for adultery is not Prison, will it be OK to take the scenario of theft.
This thought just occured to me. Please correct me where i am wrong.
Salaam
Ahmed
Salaam All,
I am trying to understand this article and put it in the forum as i didnt get a response from the website....
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/theft.htm
Would appreciate if someone who was in agreement in the article replied and helped.
Ahmed