Peace,

Safa=Sad-Fa-Waw = it became clear/limpid/pure (often said of a drink), opposite of Kaf-Dal-Ra, free from turbidness/thickness/muddiness, free from admixture, became cloudless (said of air/atmosphere, but also said of love/life/mind/heart), clear/pure/best/choice/favoured part/potion, clear/clarify, true/sincere, distinguish particularly/specially, select/elect/prefer, serenity of life, comfort, reciprocal sincerity/purity.
take the best of, to choose in preference to, grant to another a preference in the choice of anything.
abound with milk (said of a she-camel/ewe/goat/sheep), palm-tree heavy with fruit,
reached stone (said of a digger).
the portion of the spoil, which the chief/commander chooses for himself before the division.
become destitute/devoid.
stone, smooth stone/rock, stone that doesn't give growth to anything, hard broad stone, a certain place in Mekkeh.

Marwa== Miim-Ra-Waw = flint stones, white fragile stone where a cooking fire is started, the stone on which an animal is slaughtered.
The eminence in the immediate vicinity of Ka'bah.

This is a possible translation and needs more clarification as you can see there are many possibilities.

What do you think about the following literal translation from this site http//yaqb.org/

Literal That the Saffa/rock and the Marwa/flint stones (are) from God's methods/ways of worship, so who performed hajj (to) the House/Home , or headed to/visited so no offense/guilt/sin on him that (he) circles/walks around by them, and who volunteered good , so that God (is) thankful/grateful, knowledgeable.

Thank you my freind, God bless you and God bless us all. Ameen Ya'Rabbi!

Mohamed

Peace Danish,

The fact that proper names are meaningless labels that don't reflect the reality of what is being named is indisputable. You are obviously ignorant of this simple logical fact. Maybe you think that every guy whose proper name is John is really a "Yahweh is gracious" (which is the meaning of John). I explained this before many times on this thread so ignorance cannot be your only issue but also slooooowness.

Maybe your mind would work faster if you focused on the subject instead of constantly losing your attention to go on your soap box and make your dogmatic missionary speeches.

If you can't get this simple fact about the difference between proper names and common nouns through your head then I doubt that you can get deeper concepts.

Peace,

Ayman

Salaam Ayman,

What is your expert opinion of the following aya translated by Free-Minds from this site http//yaqb.org/

Free-Minds The camel and goat heavy with milk are amongst God's decrees. So whosoever makes Pilgrimage to the sanctuary, or is merely passing through, commits no error that he should partake of them. And whoever donates for goodness, then God is Appreciative, Knowledgeable.

Do you beleive that the above aya is correctly translated in your expert opinion and if it is not then how would you translate the above aya.

If you agree with the above translation, then a "yes" is sufficient. If you don't then just give your translation as you see fit in your expert opinion.

I am really not looking for a big discussion on how you translated the above aya. Just your expert translation of the above aya only. It is unnecessary for me, for you to explain me how you arrived at your translation of the above aya.

Thanks in advance.

Mohamed

Only Abd-ul-Muttalib is a fictional character?

If I told you now that Abu Bakr, Othman, Ali, Omar, Fatima, Hassan ,Hussain, etc.. are ALL fictional characters, and that there's no proof they actually existed from a historical point of view . What would your reaction be?

All we have is a compilation of a book called "Quran", which was somehow inspired to a human being who was described as being "praiseworthy", (Muhammad ) and who lived somewhere in the Jordan/Palestine area sometime in the 7th century A.D

The sad truth The religion of Islam which is being practiced today by over 1 billion people is based on nothing but hearsay and mythological folklore.

Salaam Pazuzu,

My friend, if you believe what you said in the above quote of you, then you will also believe in the following aya, by Free-Minds translation from this site http//yaqb.org/

Free-Minds The camel and goat heavy with milk are amongst God's decrees. So whosoever makes Pilgrimage to the sanctuary, or is merely passing through, commits no error that he should partake of them. And whoever donates for goodness, then God is Appreciative, Knowledgeable.

But all Muslim believe in the following literal translation of this aya and below is again from the same site http//yaqb.org/

Literal That the Saffa/rock and the Marwa/flint stones (are) from God's methods/ways of worship, so who performed hajj (to) the House/Home , or headed to/visited so no offense/guilt/sin on him that (he) circles/walks around by them, and who volunteered good , so that God (is) thankful/grateful, knowledgeable.

You see my friend the above aya confirms that Kaaba is in Mecca, unless you believe in the translation of Free-Minds that the above aya is discussing, "The camel and goat heavy with milk are amongst God's decrees...." rather than, "That the Saffa/rock and the Marwa/flint stones (are) from God's methods/ways of worship, so who performed hajj (to) the House/Home,...

Mohamed

Salaam Arnold and Maxq,

How would you translate the following verse?

al-Baqarah 002158

2158

Transliteration

Inna alssafa waalmarwata min shaAAa-iri Allahi faman hajja albayta awi iAAtamara fala junaha AAalayhi an yattawwafa bihima waman tatawwaAAa khayran fa-inna Allaha shakirun AAaleemun

This is the translation provided by the Free-Minds

The camel and goat heavy with milk are amongst God's decrees. So whosoever makes Pilgrimage to the sanctuary, or is merely passing through, commits no error that he should partake of them. And whoever donates for goodness, then God is Appreciative, Knowledgeable.

Thanks in advance.

Mohamed

Salaam Arnold,

Can you please translate the above for me, as I am not sure if the above translation is correct.

Mohamed

Salaam All,

BIG BANG!

http//electrogravity.blogspot.com/2006/02/sir-roger-penrose-on-events-before-big.html

Saturday, February 18, 2006

Sir Roger Penrose on events before the big bang

http//news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/hardtalk/4631138.stm

Stephen Sackur talks to Sir Roger Penrose about his latest theory on what may have existed before the Big Bang

Penrose says that because thermodynamics says the universe becomes more disorganised with time, as you look backwards in time the amount of order increases towards infinity. The BBC news reported suggests God is the reason for the initial high degree of order of the big bang, but Penrose defends science.

Penrose's new idea is very simple, one of the 10 components of the spacetime metric is special, and when the universe has eventually decayed entirely into radiation (assuming that even protons decay, albeit with an undetectably long radioactive half-life, as per Standard Model predictions), it loses any meaningful measure of 'time' (I've pointed out in Electronics World and on my site for years that time is entirely linked to organised motion, and when you lose any organised motion, time is meaningless). Therefore, because of the link between space and time (spacetime), space disappears and the state is effectively a singularity.

Hence at the very moment that the last proton or muon decays, the whole universe is then a fresh singularity, and the big bang occurs all over again. (This is entirely different from the old 'oscillating' universe prediction from general relativity.) I'd like to see a complete proof please! Personally, I think Penrose is right, as the idea is factually defendable and yet radically crazy enough to explain everything, and he says it makes testable predictions which astronomy can check.

To Him is due the origins of the skies (universes) and the earth When He decrees a matter, He says to it ?Be!? And it is! (117) chapter 2

Verily, when He intends a thing, His Command is, ?Be!? And it is! (82) chapter 36

For to anything which We have willed, We but say the word, ?Be!? And it is! (40) chapter 16.

Verily, when He intends a thing, His command is, ?Be!? And it is! (59) chapter 3.

It is He Who gives life and death; and when He decides upon an affair, He says to it, ?Be!? And it is! (6 chapter 40.

Has there not been over human a long period of time, when he was nothing - (not even) mentioned? (1) Verily We created human from a drop of mingled sperm, in order to try him So We gave him (the gifts), of hearing and sight (2) Chapter 76.

The similitude of Jesus before God is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, and then said to him "Be!" And he was! (55) chapter 3

Mohamed

Salaam All,

Matter & Energy

http//web.jjay.cuny.edu/~acarpi/NSC/2-matter.htm

An updated version of this lesson is available at Visionlearning Matter & Energy

Everything in the universe is made up of essentially 2 things matter and energy. Matter describes the physical things around us the earth, the air you breathe, your pencil. Matter is made up of particles called atoms and molecules. Atoms are particles of elements - substances that cannot be broken down further. There are currently 109 known elements, but obviously there are more than 109 different substances in the universe. This is because atoms of elements can combine with one another to form compounds. Molecules are single units of compounds. For example, a glass of water contains many molecules of the compound water. Each molecule of water consists of 2 hydrogen atoms chemically combined with 1 oxygen atom as you can see in the following diagram (hydrogen atoms are represented by white spheres and oxygen by red).

Molecular model of an ice crystal

There are 4 fundamental states of matter solid, liquid, gas and plasma. We will concern ourselves only with the first three since the plasma state does not occur commonly in nature. Continuing with our example, the solid water (or ice) is shown at left. In solids, molecules are tightly packed together. As you can see in the representation, the molecules of a solid do move, however their movement is very limited. As you add energy to ice in the form of heat, you increase the amount of movement by each molecule. The molecules slowly separate from each other and form a liquid state.

Liquid water molecules

Unlike the solid state where the individual molecules are relatively fixed in place, molecules can easily move past one another in the liquid state as can be seen in the diagram at right. As you add even more heat to the sample, the molecules separate further until the point at which there is relatively little interaction between them. At this point, the individual molecules move very quickly. This is called the gas state. In water, the gas state is achieved by boiling water to form steam.

Steam - water molecules in the gas state

Reviewing the above, it becomes apparent that the only difference between the three states of matter discussed is the amount of energy (or heat) in each state.

Potential energy on ledge
Kinetic energy while falling

Energy is the ability to cause change or do work. Some forms of energy include light, heat, electrical energy and mechanical energy, such as movement. There are two main forms of energy potential and kinetic. Potential energy is energy that is stored, while kinetic energy is energy in use. Let's look at an example. In the previous lesson we dropped a weight from the top ledge of the Leaning Tower of Pisa. As the weight fell it possessed kinetic energy, the energy of movement. Where did that kinetic energy come from? It was stored in the weight when the weight was suspended from the ledge of the tower. We actually put that energy into the weight when we climbed the stairs of the tower carrying the weight with us. Try it again by clicking on the animation.

If you want to explore the interaction between matter and energy further, the Physics 2000 web site has an excellent simulation of the effect of heat on the movement of atoms in their Temperature and Absolute Zero page. The page takes a few extra seconds to load on a slow modem, but it's well worth it.

Salaam All,

So far very thought provoking posts! >D >D

Mohamed

Salaam Yar,

The House of People!

Made of dark rough stones laid in a very simple manner with white chalk filling the fissures, the Kaaba is an empty cube - nothing else. You cannot but shiver and wonder about what you see Here ... There is no one! There is nothing to view! An empty room (cube) is visible. Is that all?!! Is this the center of our faith, prayers, love, life and death?

Questions and doubts arise in your mind. Where am I? What is here? What you see is the antithesis of your visual imaginations of the Kaaba. You might have perceived it as an architectural beauty (like a palace) whose ceilings covered a spiritual silence. Another possible portrayal was that of a high tomb housing the grave of an important human being - a hero, genius, imam or prophet! No - instead it is an open square, an empty room. It reflects no architectural skill, beauty, art, inscription, nor quality; and no graves are found there. There is nothing and nobody there to whom you can direct your attention, feelings and memories.

You will realize that there is nothing and nobody there to disturb your thoughts and feelings about God. The Kaaba, which you want to fly over to come into contact with the "absolute" and "eternal", is the roof for your feelings. This is something you were unable to achieve in your world of fragmentation and relativity. You could only be philosophical, but now you can see the "absolute", the one who has no direction - Allah! He is every where.

How good it is to see the Kaaba empty! It reminds you that your presence is for the sake of performing Hajj. It is not your destination. Moreover, it is a guide to show the direction.

Kaaba is only a cornerstone, a sign to show the road.

Having decided to move toward eternity, you begin the Hajj. It is an eternal movement toward Allah not toward the Kaaba. The Kaaba is the beginning and not the end - when no more can be done. It is the place where Allah, Ibrahim, Mohammed and people will meet. You will be present there only if your mind is not preoccupied with self-centered thoughts. You must be one of the people! Everyone is dressed in special garments. Being Allah's chastity and family you are honored by him . He has more enthusiasm toward this family than any one else. However, the Kaaba, His property and His house is called the "house of people".

By Dr. Ali Shariati

peace yar,
You did answer my question. But I'm afraid we can't agree about kaaba being a house of God.

Sure Yar Phoenix1,

God is everywhere, so in a sense you are right. God is not bound with time and space and science has proven this and of course the Koran says so. Here are some of the ayas that might interest you

It is not virtuous that you turn your faces towards sunrise/east or sunset/west; but it is virtuous to believe in God, and the last day, and the angels, and the book, and the prophets. Out of love for God, to give from your substance, for your kin, and for the orphans, and for the needy, and for the wayfarer, and for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer and practice regular charity; and those who keep their word whenever they promise anything; and those who are patient in suffering or adversity; and throughout all periods of panic; such are the people of truth, and on them is God?s guidance (177) chapter 2.

Who is more wrong than someone who prevents God?s name being mentioned in mosques and worked to ruin them? Such persons should not even enter them except in fear; they will suffer disgrace in this world as well as severe torment in the hereafter (114) Chapter 2.

To God belongs the sunrise/east and the sunset/west. Wherever you turn, there is the face of God. God is the vast the all knowing (115) Chapter 2.

Mohamed

Salaam Arnold and Maxq,

How would you translate the following verse?

al-Baqarah 002158

2158

Transliteration

Inna alssafa waalmarwata min shaAAa-iri Allahi faman hajja albayta awi iAAtamara fala junaha AAalayhi an yattawwafa bihima waman tatawwaAAa khayran fa-inna Allaha shakirun AAaleemun

This is the translation provided by the Free-Minds

The camel and goat heavy with milk are amongst God's decrees. So whosoever makes Pilgrimage to the sanctuary, or is merely passing through, commits no error that he should partake of them. And whoever donates for goodness, then God is Appreciative, Knowledgeable.

Thanks in advance.

Mohamed

Dear Mohamed,

I invited you to read up the QXP since it accounts for classical Arabic and the beduin diaelect... if present-day spoken arabic is your mother-tongue, this becomes especially important for you to trace the meaning back to classical Arabic and not to rely on contemporary context, since the context of many Arabic words have been contaminated by Persian, Turkish, Egyptian, Sabaic as well as Jewish/Christian concepts. Nomads were referred to as the Jinn in the classical diaelect... when they establish and urbanize themselves, they become Ins... I have had significant work on classical Arabic... I am a Qari btw and have more than 20 years of experience and learning in Qiraa't. I will leave it at that... I do not claim to be an Ustaz and I should not either, but I do know a few things that help keep me reasonable.

an-Naml aayat 17 reads

2717 Solomon?s army included warrior tribes of the woods and the mountains, dwellers of townships, and great riders of the tribe of Taer. They were well disciplined, and dedicated to any appointed mission.

maxq

Dear, Dear maxq,

Here is what Ayman is written about "tyr", "taer" and the ones who fly, "tyur". The word is not "taer" in the above aya, but "tyur.

"Common names attempt to describe the nature of things. In Arabic, the common name is usually based on a predominant property that the object being described possesses. Hence, the common name "ta'ir" (a flying creature) comes from the root "TYR" (to fly)."

http//free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/name.htm

If you think in your right mind that ROCK and STONES, means MILK of CAMEL and GOATS, then check out this post

http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4790.msg105639#msg105639

Mohamed

peace Yar,

sorry, I speak urdu but I didn't pick it up.
So, we're best friends?

peace Ayman,

makes sense.
This is what I understand
"We are all nadeems so we shouldn't be driving."
This is a proper noun because it makes sense in the context.

Salaam Yar,

Why not!

Did I answer your question about Milk, Camel and Goats? And, about Rock and Stones?

Who cares Kaaba is a noun and/or proper noun. My school is called Red, because my school is red colored, so my teacher decided to name the school as such. I go to Red (proper noun) school. And Red Ridding Hood goes to my Red School!

The house of GOD is cubed and it has a base (kaaba), because it has a base (kaaba), so it was decided to name it Kaaba by some, but still it is a house of GOD!

Mohamed

Peace Aladdin,

Who in God's name is "Yar?"
And why are you talking about milks,camels, and goats?

Peace Phoenix1,

Yar in Urdu means my best friend. Regarding milks,camels, and goats? Regarding Rock and Stones?

Didn't you read my above post? Read below

Behold! Safa and Marwa are among the Symbols of Allah. So if those who visit the House in the Hajj Season or at other times, should compass them round, it is no sin in them. If anyone obeys his own impulse to do good deeds, be sure God is Grateful, the all Knowing.

The below literal and Free-Minds translation are both from this site http//yaqb.org/

Literal That the Saffa/rock and the Marwa/flint stones (are) from God's methods/ways of worship, so who performed pilgrimage (to) the House/Home , or headed to/visited so no offense/guilt/sin on him that (he) circles/walks around by them, and who volunteered good , so that God (is) thankful/grateful, knowledgeable.

Free-Minds The camel and goat heavy with milk are amongst God's decrees. So whosoever makes Pilgrimage to the sanctuary, or is merely passing through, commits no error that he should partake of them. And whoever donates for goodness, then God is Appreciative, Knowledgeable.

Mohamed

Peace Alladin,

what do you think of this article
http//free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/name.htm

Peace Yar,

What do you think about Rock and Stones. And about Milk, Camel and Goats!

Mohamed

Peace Ayman,
I think what Danish is saying is that although kaaba doesn't mean cube, it could still be a proper name of a structure. Just like Nadeem's not really a drunk. So can you give us proof that kaaba is in fact a common noun, not a name?

Peace Yar,

Yes, can you give us proof that nadeem is in fact a common noun, meaning drunk, and not a name of Nadeem!

As there are more people in the world who are drunk (nadeem) than people who are named Nadeem!

Mohamed

Peace all,

The word "kaaba/kaab" means "base" NOT "cube"

The above is complete and sufficient proof to destroy the sectarians' guarantee that The God endorses their revered stone block. Without this, all other points would be irrelevant. How many sectarians would travel and spend thousands of dollars to spin around a stone structure if they were informed that it is not true that The God endorses their revered stone block? Not many.

Peace,

Ayman

Salaam All,

I believe there is some confusion in Ayman's mind. Does it make any difference that Kaaba means cube and/or base.

Kaaba or Caaba (both k?'b or k?'b&#601 , the central, cubic, stone structure, covered by a black cloth, within the Great Mosque in Mecca, Saudi Arabia. The sacred nature of the site predates Islam tradition says that the Kaaba was built by Adam and rebuilt by Abraham and the descendants of Noah. Also known as the House of God, it is the center of the circumambulations performed during the hajj, and it is toward the Kaaba that Muslims face in their prayers (see liturgy, Islamic). Pre-Islamic Meccans used it as a central shrine housing their many idols, most notable of which were al-lat, al-uzza, and manat, collectively known as al-gharaniq or the daughters of god, and hubal, a martial deity. The Black Stone, possibly of meteoric origin, is located at one of its outside corners. Also dating from pre-Islamic times as a heavenly relic, this stone is venerated and ritually kissed. Worn hollow by the centuries of veneration, the stone is held together by a wide silver band. The actual structure of the Kaaba has been demolished and rebuilt several times in the course of its history. Around the Kaaba is a restricted area, haram, extending in some directions as far as 12 mi, into which only Muslims may enter.

Behold! Safa and Marwa are among the Symbols of Allah. So if those who visit the House in the Season or at other times, should compass them round, it is no sin in them. If anyone obeys his own impulse to do good deeds, be sure God is Grateful, the all Knowing.

The below literal and Free-Minds translation for the same above quoted verse are both from this site http//yaqb.org/

Check out the massive difference between the literal of the verse and the translation by Free-Minds

Literal That the Saffa/rock and the Marwa/flint stones (are) from God's methods/ways of worship, so who performed pilgrimage (to) the House/Home , or headed to/visited so no offense/guilt/sin on him that (he) circles/walks around by them, and who volunteered good , so that God (is) thankful/grateful, knowledgeable.

Free-Minds The camel and goat heavy with milk are amongst God's decrees. So whosoever makes Pilgrimage to the sanctuary, or is merely passing through, commits no error that he should partake of them. And whoever donates for goodness, then God is Appreciative, Knowledgeable.

Cooking and spinning, milk, camel and goat turning and turning into rock and stones, cooking and spinning into milk, camel and goat. As we are noting but MILK for CAMELS and GOATS, full of ROCK and STONES! Baa! Baa!

Baa, baa, black sheep, Have you any wool? Yes sir, yes sir, Three bags full. One for the MILK, One for the ROCK, And one for the little boy, who is full of STONES ...

Mohamed

Peace,

JINN IS NOT A TITLE OF A SPECIES. IBLIS IS A JINN BECAUSE IT IS NOT SEEN BECAUSE IT IS A SIDE OF MAN'S PSYCHE. JINN MEANS SOMETHING RARELY OR NOT SEEN/CONCEALED BY TIME. SO THIS MEANS ANYTHING THAT IS RARELY SEEN OR CONCEALED.

Salaam,

So, Muhammad is the messenger of MAN'S PSYCHE and MAN. Whereas, the all other messengers are ONLY messengers for MAN and NOT MAN'S PSYCHE.

Keep up the great work Mr. Arnold! God BLESS YOU!

Mohamed

Dear Mohamed,

Please do give some material from www.ourbeacon.com a read ... I would urge you to give QXP - "Quran as It explains Itself" a read (in its entirity), reflect on it, and then come back to have a meaningful discussion. Please give up looking for resources such as Bukhari or Tabari for explanation of the Quran through Hadith.

Regards,
maxq

Dear, Dear maxq,

You are telling me to read the translation of the Koran, when I can read it in my own language of Arabic and discuss the Koran with people in Arabic. Kudos to you my dear, dear friend.

And before Solomon were marshaled his hosts, - of jinns and humans and birds, and they were all kept in order and ranks. Verse 17, Chapter 27.

You see in the above aya, three creations are discussed, three distinct creation are discussed. The jinns, human and the one's who fly.

I suggest you should read up on Rapture, the number is 666, the Devil trapping the God in Hell for three days, Lucifer, Milton's Paradise lost, Dante's Divine Comedy, Pullman's His Dark Materials, Goethe's Faust. While at this, try to read Alama Iqbal and Ghalib (both Pakistanis).

Ones you have done this, then you will understand the proper threat to mankind.

Mohamed

Salam Mohamed,

This is a link explaining the evidence supporting the Aramaic Pes***ta Primacy.

http//www.aramaicpes***ta.com/friendsearch/aramaic-alphabet.html

Salam

Salaam Arnab,

I can give you thousands and thousands of site which say the four book were originally written in Greek. You must be joking with me. You surely don't believe that coming from the Christian background.

Misquoting Jesus The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why

http//www.amazon.com/Misquoting-Jesus-Story-Behind-Changed/dp/0060738170/

Editorial Reviews

From Booklist

The popular perception of the Bible as a divinely perfect book receives scant support from Ehrman, who sees in Holy Writ ample evidence of human fallibility and ecclesiastical politics. Though himself schooled in evangelical literalism, Ehrman has come to regard his earlier faith in the inerrant inspiration of the Bible as misguided, given that the original texts have disappeared and that the extant texts available do not agree with one another. Most of the textual discrepancies, Ehrman acknowledges, matter little, but some do profoundly affect religious doctrine. To assess how ignorant or theologically manipulative scribes may have changed the biblical text, modern scholars have developed procedures for comparing diverging texts. And in language accessible to nonspecialists, Ehrman explains these procedures and their results. He further explains why textual criticism has frequently sparked intense controversy, especially among scripture-alone Protestants. In discounting not only the authenticity of existing manuscripts but also the inspiration of the original writers, Ehrman will deeply divide his readers. Although he addresses a popular audience, he undercuts the very religious attitudes that have made the Bible a popular book. Still, this is a useful overview for biblical history collections.

Bryce Christensen - Copyright ? American Library Association. All rights reserved

The Lost Christianities The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew (Hardcover)

http//www.amazon.com/Lost-Christianities-Battles-Scripture-Faiths/dp/0195141830/

Editorial Reviews

From Publishers Weekly

What if Marcion's canon-which consisted only of Luke's Gospel and Paul's letters, entirely omitting the Old Testament-had become Christianity's canon? What if the Ebionites-who believed Jesus was completely human and not divine-had ruled the day as the Orthodox Christian party? What if various early Christian writings, such as the Gospel of Thomas or the Secret Gospel of Mark, had been allowed into the canonical New Testament? Ehrman (The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture), a professor of religion at UNC Chapel Hill, offers answers to these and other questions in this book, which rehearses the now-familiar story of the tremendous diversity of early Christianity and its eventual suppression by a powerful "proto-orthodox" faction. The proto-orthodox Christians won out over many other groups, and bequeathed to us the four Gospels, a church hierarchy, a set of practices and beliefs, and doctrines such as the Trinity. Ehrman eloquently characterizes some of the movements and Scriptures that were lost, such as the Ebionites and the Secret Gospel of Mark, as he outlines the many strands of Christianity that competed for attention in the second and third centuries. He issues an important reminder that there was no such thing as a monolithic Christian orthodoxy before the fourth century. While Ehrman sometimes raises interesting questions (e.g., are Paul's writings sympathetic to women?), his book covers territory already well-explored by others (Gregory Riley, The River of God; Elaine Pagels, Beyond Belief), generating few fresh or provocative insights.

Copyright 2003 Reed Business Information, Inc.

Book Description

The early Christian Church was a chaos of contending beliefs. Some groups of Christians claimed that there was not one God but two or twelve or thirty. Some believed that the world had not been created by God but by a lesser, ignorant deity. Certain sects maintained that Jesus was human but not divine, while others said he was divine but not human.

In Lost Christianities, Bart D. Ehrman offers a fascinating look at these early forms of Christianity and shows how they came to be suppressed, reformed, or forgotten. All of these groups insisted that they upheld the teachings of Jesus and his apostles, and they all possessed writings that bore out their claims, books reputedly produced by Jesus's own followers. Modern archaeological work has recovered a number of key texts, and as Ehrman shows, these spectacular discoveries reveal religious diversity that says much about the ways in which history gets written by the winners.

Ehrman's discussion ranges from considerations of various "lost scriptures"--including forged gospels supposedly written by Simon Peter, Jesus's closest disciple, and Judas Thomas, Jesus's alleged twin brother--to the disparate beliefs of such groups as the Jewish-Christian Ebionites, the anti-Jewish Marcionites, and various "Gnostic" sects. Ehrman examines in depth the battles that raged between "proto-orthodox Christians"-- those who eventually compiled the canonical books of the New Testament and standardized Christian belief--and the groups they denounced as heretics and ultimately overcame.

Scrupulously researched and lucidly written, Lost Christianities is an eye-opening account of politics, power, and the clash of ideas among Christians in the decades before one group came to see its views prevail.

New Testament

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The New Testament ( &#951, sometimes called the Greek Testament or Greek Scriptures, and sometimes also New Covenant which is the literal translation of the Greek, is the name given to the final portion of the Bible, the holy book of the Christians. It was written by various authors after c. 45 AD and before c. 140 AD. Its books were gradually collected into a single volume over a period of several centuries. The New Testament is more or less the root of the Christian religion, which has played a major role in shaping modern Western morality and culture.

New Covenant (theology)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Some Bible translations use the term New Covenant. According to Replacement theology, this refers to the covenant or agreement made between God and Christians which is the replacement for the original covenant made between God and Israel (called Judaism) at Mount Sinai. For example, the NIV translation uses the phrase 9 times, the KJV translation uses it 3 times Hebrews 88,813,1224. Technically, according to Replacement theology, the New Covenant is put into effect at the very moment of the death of Christ, first mentioned in Matthew 2750. Just as a will is not put into effect until the testator dies, so too, the New Covenant could not be put into effect until Christ died as is explained in the Book of Hebrews 916-18 (see Jeremiah 3131-32, Hebrews 1016, Hebrews 813, Matthew 262, according to some forms of Dispensationalism. Some use the term New Covenant to refer to the books of the New Testament.

Back to Old Covenant and to the New Covenant. From the old blood and gory to the new blood and gory.

Mohamed

Salaam All,

Here is my translation of the first verse of the Holy Koran

(I begin) with the name of God, the unconditional Mercy, the eternal Mercy.

Why? As God is ar-Rahman and ar-Raheem. And He is not bound with time and space. He is ar-Rahman and ar-Raheem for eternity.

The usual translation

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

This i s my small contribution for a great task you all are planning to take. Wish you all luck. My recommendation would be to keep away from the biblical translation and biblical English.

Mohamed