Question asked

And yet you won't say who you are? Why exactly?

http//shariaalert.com/resources/hanging.jpg

Question answered?

I know what you said and the perception you tried to create with those articles which have ZERO to do with nineteen other than one was titled lec19.html which most likely popped up on Google and allured you to it since nineteen is ONLY an obsession/infatuation (i.e. fitna 7431) for the unappreciative.

By your understanding a vegitarian is always exempt and can gorge without being thankful or anything; reminds me of this one girl who was a veggie I asked how she distinguishes which seafood is OK to eat and she replied she doesn't eat anything if it has a face... Shocked

Everyone is a bit crazy and kind of wondering if there would be an issue with your girlfriend or wife befriending a guy like me; perhaps a movie and dinner we can talk about the latest fashions like Victoria Secrets in a friendly way of course since I have complete control enjoy the intellectual aspects of conversation. Wink

Yes, many companies do these now and we do similar by having the most successful employees first take the test see if there is at least 80% match for that particular job profile which I put a heavy weight on their learning ability and especially attitude.

When it comes to Qur'an, I always correct them regardless who they are especially if not written in the book.

Hmmm you used 'I' in every one of these sentences found when looking through your last posts ) We must be so alike!

Since introducing myself into this forum it was been necessary for me to divulge my opinions; in order to clarify this to everyone at the behest of a many questions understandably thrown my way - how else would one do it without use of the word 'I'.

So the wisdom you use in judging people falls squarely down on their use of pronouns? rotfl

Maybe you should cease trying to reduce me to a 2-dimensional character and stereotyping others on this forum in such a childish manner. D

Peace Loxbox,

I enjoyed reading your post handshake

I was busy writing a reply to your post here - but in light of the subject matter - the meaning of specific words in the Quran - I think it would benefit a large number of people if I wrote an article dealing with this very subject matter - because a great deal of the arguments in this forum are over this very issue! D

Please allow me a day or two in order to collect the necessary sourcework and compile my article.

Peace peace

Hello Javed1, I'm going to go for a little while now but will elaborate further on these issues when I return and when I hear back from nimnimak_11.

Hello Layth! Thanks for welcoming me back D

I can tell you there is a Creator as sure as you and I breathe, but when faith in the unseen is mixed with doubt, the doubt takes over.

I used to believe as you do - but I think the fundamental difference between us is that our views on doubt and faith are very different - the way we treat them are not the same - which then leads us to see the world in very different ways.

I no longer fear doubt - doubt is the very breathing room one uses to expand - it allows us to look at all possible avenues and not just see what's down one road. Doubt is equatable to humility, and the admission that we are not perfect and do not know everything.

And faith, well for me faith is not an admirable quality - I find it not only arrogant but also something that people hide behind (please do not take offense I'm trying to explain myself in light of the words used () and very VERY dangerous.

All I can tell you is that comparing the last few years as I am now (and now I'm even starting to dislike the term agnostic because it seems a lot here are equalting it with being 'lost' thankfully which I am not) with my time desperately trying to reconcile the problems with Islam and the other religions in light of the presumptuous ideas on what God is - held me back so much.

And now - I am liberated - I do not worry trying to reconcile the many problems - the very problems the people come here to argue about EVERY DAY on EVERY ISSUE - because for me - I can see so clearly why those problems exist - the religion is flawed - therefore why try to bend logic and twist interpretations to fix something that is broken? They don't need to be reconciled - because I understand why they are there.

Peace Pel, I humbly ask you to please read through some of your own statements carefully

I haven't been very active on this forum lately because of doubts I am having about the Qur'an or actualy about any revealed religion.

At the begining I will mention that I am undecided on wich religion is true. I am sorry to say this but I have to be honest with my self and others. I supose you wouldn't want me any other way.

I find it hard to tell people who think criticaly that I am a believer who knows, because after all how can I know 100%.

Pel, if I'm going to be honest with you, it seems that the following quote

After 7 years I should be coming to a closure about what I believe to be true.

Is betraying your true feelings and beliefs.

I don't know you or what is going on inside you, all I know is from the information you have given me - so could you perhaps be misleading yourself to conclude that you are nearly there?

Arkan, keep searching. I wouldn't be satisfied with agnosticism.

My admission of agnosticism was the most humble and enlightening thing I have ever done in my life - it has made me a very satisfied person - much more satisfied than when I was years ago very much in your situation. I feel it has truly liberated me and allowed me to see things much more clearly than before. How can one possibly seek knowledge and wisdom when they have already concluded 'I KNOW'? All I'm saying is take your time and be careful - because doing otherwise may only lead to you decieving yourself.

Please read carefully and listen to my reasoning, not my opinions or anyone elses for that matter.

If you would like me to clarify on anything further I would be most happy to do that for you.

I truly hope that you find peace and truth Pel.

Regards,

Arkan

anyway, I hope the truth will be known, and to me , Isa wasn't born of a virgin because god did't say it

Come on

Hello Pel,

I am very open minded, so I am prone to changing my mind and that is because I try to understand different perspectives.

I am onlly slightly(now) agnostic about wich system is true. Is it hadith or not, is it maybe some form of Christianity? Is it Judeism? Is it my personal belief?

If this is true,

Right now I believe in the Quran but I am still researching what ever I come across so that in the end when I say I am a muslim it will not be ONLY because my father is one but because I SINCIERLY believe in the Quran to be inspired by true God.

It looks like you've already made up your mind because you already have your final destination in view tempt

Allah knows best, because the history of Egypt was kidnapped by the archeologists pagans and it's emprisoned by the Elite that rule britain and US and the West.

Peace Loxbox,

There were many archaelogogists spread over a large period of time from various backgrounds (such as Egyptian Zaki Hawass) all using scientific methods who have collected evidence from various sources - there has not been some conspiracy to try and hide the truth - the truth can be deduced from their collected works.

There's no evidence that Britain and the US have tried to put forward a pagan view on these matters - on the contrary they support a Christian Zionist view of all the facts - which nevertheless is closer to the Muslim view than any pagan one.

Oddly condescending comments, but hmm...okay.

Are you Cosmicdancer?

Hello CavemanDoctor - I apologise, I didn't mean it to sound that way - might I add that I myself have likewise grown in that department.

No, I'm not Cosmicdancer - again - I'm not surprised if anyone is suspicious of me hmm

Perhaps it would be better if you made a separate topic or further explain which specific verses you think are illogical and unscientific......this would benefit all as truth is a journey which starts by questioning Wink

Peace Prince - you're right - maybe I will, I've been browsing the forum the last day dropping my two cents on various topics - but yeah maybe I will sometime.

Now I'm not sure whether Mary was a virgin or not, but I sure am certain she had one massive WHOOPASS halo above her head

http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/Egypt.IsisHorus.01.png

D

I am still very interested to know what your take is one the scientific verses of the Quran. Being a former believer, you may know the verses well and i was wondering what your view is on them. For example surah 90 and the development of a baby inside the mothers womb. Do consider it possible for a man 1400 years ago to write such verses without some kind of inspiration or authority from God?

I would be glad to share my thoughts on the presence or lack thereof -[ pertaining to scientific verses.

I do not expect you to reply to my above question untill i quote some verses but i am busy at the moment so it will have to wait unless you know the verses off by heart.

No worries, we all have things to do and can only visit the forum when time permits, so in the meantime I'll try my best to summarise my thoughts on this issue for you

Before I mention this though, I'll have to say that even when I existed as a 'traditional muslim' I was most certainly not impressed by the rationale and supposed intellectual merits of the Ulema.

It was clear for me, from the very beginning - that the history of pre-Islamic Arabia was severely misrepresented by Islamic 'scholars' in order to elevate the position of Muhammad and support certain themes - at the time my thoughts were that this was unnecessary and any attempts to do so were obviously an indication of insecurity on behalf of the person knowingly perpetrating that particular falsehood.

This is very important as it's related to the issue of the Scientific verses. Issues such as the presence of Christians/Christian Arabs in the peninsula was completely played down in light of tons of evidence to the contrary. The literacy of the Hijaz was completely misrepresented by the Ulema, funny considering Arabia is adjacent to the three oldest civilized lands on Earth - Rafidayn (Iraq), Kanaan (Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan) and Kemet/Misr (Egypt) ANYWAY I'm diverging so I'll get back to the point

Back to the Scientific Versus, here is a summary of my thoughts

1. Many of the verses claiming to be scientific are not and the understanding and interpretation has been twisted to suit modern ideas.

2. The ones that do parallel a general understanding of science aren't spectacular due to the fact that it was understood to be that way by everyone at the time anyway, especially since Hejaz as a middle eastern province enjoyed close proximity to the three oldest centers of civilization as well as Greece and Rome.

3. There are verses which clearly run counter not only to science but logic, which can be argued to clearly betray any claims of divine and perfect origin.

Hope this has helped you get a better idea of my point of view.

Peace )

I'm not a Muslim friend ) - I'm just pointing out that it's 'La ilaha illa Allah' not 'La ilah' handshake

Peace Abdun Nur,

the foundation of Islam is this statement, There is No God, why then do Muslims continue to express belief in a God, have they failed to grasp the concept of God; Allah has no problem with the concept of God, and Allah has asked every Muslim to understand There is No God, before understanding any other idea, the very foundation of Islam, and this foundation is not understood.

The foundation of Islam is 'La ilaha illa Allah' not 'La ilah'

I think it's unfair of you to cut this statement thereby changing it's meaning completely; 'There is no deity/god except God' is the statement, not 'There is no deity/god' I don't there is any confusion on this matter.

Maybe we should argue the foundation of Islam is the statement 'No' D

Hello Pel,

I think one of the most liberating things I did in my life and personal growth was to recognise my agnosticism - I think it made me a much more humble and fairer person.

But to be honest I always respected agnostics.

Oops - that was another opinion! LOL

LOL! Who are these people fooling other than themselves! confused

At the begining I will mention that I am undecided on wich religion is true. I am sorry to say this but I have to be honest with my self and others. I supose you wouldn't want me any other way.

That is a very good start - the fact that you're being honest with yourself, and you remain that way - who can stop you from finding the truth?

I am finding it hard to believe in eternal torment in Hell. If I had to chose between the Qur'an or the Bible it would probably be the Qur'an

That was always my outlook

Help me deside if you wish!

None of us can do that for you, the best thing any of us here could ever do is to present information to you in the most objective way possible sans our own person interpretation of the given information being presented, keep searching every possible source of information you can find, and if I could give you my honest opinion - STEER CLEAR OF OTHER PEOPLE'S OPINIONS! lol peace

PS - I know you are not asking the question, he is, I just think that a lot of supposed non-religious types are unfairly prejudiced against Islam and thought it may be constructive to give my assessment seeing as though I'm am also a non-Muslim. It always annoys me when these criticisms are made and other religions are getting away with murder!!! >

I would like to answer this question

Q Does Islam Intend to Conquer the World?

'Islam' denotes a religious belief system composed of sects with diverging points of view but centered around the Prophet Muhammad and his message purportedly revealed by God in the Qur'an.

To ask question in such simplistic terms can be quite misleading and unconstructive as opposed to asking 'Do the teachings of Islam tell it's followers to take over the world?' either way - the issue is a very complicated one and not necessarily worthy of a simple yes or no answer.

A What I would DEFINITELY say is that there are Muslims who are trying to take over the world and make it their mission to convert as many people as they can to their ideology whether that be Sunni, Shiah, Qadiani etc - Just as there are Christians, Bahais and members of other cults and religions who are trying to do exactly the same thing.

I think it would be very unfair for any of us to ask 'Does Christianity intend to conquer the world?' or 'Does Islam intend to conquer the world?' without mentioning the other considering how simillar these religions are in this respect - after all how did they become the two most dominant religions on Earth? D

Although I'm an ex-Muslim I still feel at times very defensive towards Muslims in general because I feel they are disproportionately targeted especially in light of my own views that most of the violence and misery being doled out due to religious convictions on Earth at this moment in time is being perpetrated by Christian Zionists in the White House. And I feel it is VERY dangerous to concentrate on the criticism (if it is even a criticism )) of ANY religion if other religions are guilty of the very same crimes - they must be named along side them.

Mughal1 - I had a look at your link - you make some very interesting points - it's very VERY long though! Maybe you should realease it as a Pdf Ebook

Wakas - Thank you Wakas for sending the links, I have had a look through both of them

AlFajr - Many thanks for your kind and warm welcome

SEid - I loved your link - it made me laugh the second I heard him shout 'Come Back' - I can see how this all looks like it

Hi nimnimak_11 - I know a few other people like myself, as a matter of fact there were about 3 of us on this forum discussing the crisis we were facing in light of the issues we came to face and I'll have to admit to you that the other two members at the time were a lot more candid and open about how they were feeling than myself. I think all of us at that time were feeling very guilty about even the very idea of thinking such thoughts, but I think after a while we could no longer ignore or hide from them - we basically had to set aside our fears and be honest with ourselves and our own personal truths.

I mean how would you explain the verses in relation to science such as the expansion of the Universe or how a baby is developed inside the womb of the mother, the formation of stars and so on? Would you consider a man 1400 years ago to be capable of such knowledge? or to be capable of guessing so effectively?

I would love to discuss these issues with you soon, and better explain myself with regards to a whole plethora of issues.

I don't get why anyone would be offended here unless they choose to have some negative image of you just because of your beliefs or your changing of some them (namely not believing the Quran to be divine) You have certainly not offended me and your what appears to me as a kind and polite approach is appreciated but i'm not so clear on your intentions. Do you want to have fruitful discussions or just get acquainted?

Everyone here has made me feel very welcome, much more than I imagined - as for my intentions, like I said I'd like to see how people have progressed and also discuss some of the things I went through at that time.

I put myself in my own shoes a while back when I was still a Muslim and think how I would have recieved such a person as me - and to be honest I would have suspicions of ulterior motives and I realise that there's nothing wrong with that at all, suspicions can be very healthy, but a personal judgement can only reasonably made after you have seen someones actions, so I suppose for me, it remains to be seen

I did notice that since making my initial posts it has restarted a lot of discussions on Jesus and Mary etc to which I think is very healthy, and it's amazing the kind way in which people are discussing these issues with each other (which can only serve to be constructive) it's not the way I always remember things being here! lol - because at times things certainly got very heated! So right now, it's very apparent to me that many of the members I remember particularly have certainly grown a lot - which is a great thing - as for the moderation team I always remember them always being like that - but I suppose that's what you have to get from a team

Hello Mughal1 and thank you very much for your warm welcome, I will have a look at that link and will post some more in a few hours when I come back to my computer and have had some sleep )

Peace peace