Peace Tutti Futti,

what do you mean angels (malak) is just a status?? a status given to whom?? and what makes you think that it is just a status??

Angel doesn't mean "malak". See 326 where "mlk" (controller/owner) is clearly a status that is given and can be taken away by the god. This is also the only way to explain how Iblis was a "malak" and then he lost this status when he disobeyed the god and didn't submit to humankind.

when The God tells the angels He wants to create humans on earth, to whom is He speaking??

He is speaking to various creatures to whom he gave control. Those creatures once they are given control are not considered part of the creatures in the heavens and the earth (see 1649).

unless mistaken i remember there is a verse where The God says that the heavens will be filled with angels on judgement day ... what are these angels that will fill the heavens on the day of resurrection??

Those are controllers not "angels" wearing white and with halos over their head as in Christian mythology.

who will carry the throne of The God if not 8 angels??

The throne of the god is also on water (see 117) and it encompasses the heaven and the earth (see 2255). In other words, the god's throne is on all water in the heavens and the earth. Everything alive is created from water. So everything alive carries the throne of the god. On the day of the account when everything is dead eight controllers will carry the throne.

or in the following verse 5 of surah 45
“almost might the heavens above be rent asunder while the angels hymn the praise of their Lord and ask forgiveness for those on the earth. Lo! Allah, He is the Forgiver, the Merciful.”
when The God says that angels seek forgiveness for those on earth... what do you think these angels are???

They are controllers who the god gave control to.

my point, it is quite obvious that angels are separate creatures and the jinn as well
surah 34 verse 14
“Then, when We decreed death for him, nothing informed them of his death until a worm kept eating from his staff, so when he fell down, the jinn realized that if they had known the unseen, they would not have remained in the humiliating retribution.”
how does imagination even fit in the above verse?

The human imagination doesn't know the hidden side of the universe because it is not part of that hidden side (unlike controllers).

jinn are made from fire, what does imagination being made of fire even mean??

Imagination is brainwaves, energy (symbolically fire).

what makes you think that verse 3.26 is talking about angel as a status??? when i read the verse i understsnd quite clearly The God is speaking about anyone He gives sovereignty to which includes human kings, there is no mention of being about malaika

Whether human controller/owner on earth or controller/owner at the god, it is the same principal. Do you doubt that the god bestows "mlk"/control ownership on all and can take it away from any creature?

again, what made you think angel is just a status?? and if it is a status, to whom is it given?? who are these creatures that are given such status???

Any creature the god wants.

iblees is not a source of anything...
the only source of everything is The God
everything is from Him

The god is the source of all truth. He is not the source of falsehood. The human fantasy (jinn) is the only source of falsehood.

also, unless mistaken, i remember there is a verse where The God said He created the human with his virtues and vices

Yes. Virtue is the ability to make our fantasy submit to us while vice is falling under the control of our fantasy.

the devil makes false promises, lies about The God, misleads etc

Exactly, the out of control fantasy (devil) does all that. It is the only source of falsehood in the universe.

i understand the source of everything is The God, and only He permits things to exist (falsehood existing is a permission from Him as well)

Falsehood doesn't exist. Falsehood is just a fantasy. Whether we imagine the earth is flat or not this doesn't change the truth/reality. Whether we imagine that spinning 7 times around a cube in Mecca will wipe our sins and return us like newborn this will not change truth/reality.

Peace,

Ayman

Hope you are doing well. I have been searching for some answers in this forum I went eventually all the way back since the inception of this forum. I had the pleasure to read your articles and understanding of the cube and other important topics. There was an article that Wakas gave a link to, but i think the links dont work prior to 2003, so I was hoping you still had that artice. I'm not sure about the name of the article, but it was along the lines of the bond or commitment or contract between mankind and God. In the end I was looking answers regarding Hell fire (may we all be saved from that terrible pusnishment by our dear God).
If it's not too much, I was hoping you could answer my question of whether Hell is forever, and how it is justified. Please see my link
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611032.0
Thank you for your contribution/time.

Peace Enquiry,

I think the article about the trust might be somewhere on the forum. If it was written back in 2003 then my understanding probably evolved since then )

I tried to answer your question about hell in your post.

Peace,

Ayman

Peace Enquiry,

Hope everyone is well! I have a question. In my deen, there is always one part, one place that someone can put me in my place and I don't know what to answer.

I am not sure what you mean by "deen". It is a common noun that should be translated. It means obligation. Our only obligation is peacemaking.

And that's the question of hell and heaven. Hassan Redwan is an ex-muslim. I hate how logical he sounds in his videos lol. I went through the steps

• God creates mankind
• God asks if mankind wants free will

Everything in the universe has free will. The trust was offered to everything in the heavens and the earth and they CHOSE to not accept it while mankind CHOSE to accept it. So everything had free will and it was certainly not what was offered.

• We accept, and now we transgressed.

We transgressed by allowing our fantasy (jinn) to control us instead of us controlling it and making it submit like it was supposed to. While the fantasy is our creative force, it is also the only source of falsehood in the universe. Thus we transgressed against the truth. The god is the truth.

• God sends us down makes us witness that he is the only God
• On earth, some of us remember this and some of us choose to ignore it.

Some of us make their fantasy submit to them while most of us follow their fantasies. Those who remember the truth and make their fantasy (the only source of falsehood) submit to them naturally serve the truth (the god).

We accepted to be leaders of the earth. We are not very good leaders of the earth if she shed blood instead of make peace (our true obligation).

• Those who remember and act will go to heaven, those who ignore and act opposite the message of God will go to hell.

Those who remember and control their fantasy and make it submit, their fantasy will be given water (life) and those who ignore and are controlled by their fantasy will be stuck in the worst thing they can fantasize (hell).

A part of these steps elude me Parties engaging a contract must be aware of the consequences of breaching the contract. Did God ask Do u want to be created? If so, then these are the rules and consequences. But I will ignore this fact, and say Well, if one is created, one is in eternal bliss if he or she is in the presence of God, why would you aks? Can't you see that it is His infinite mercy and gift?

Everything in the universe is created with the truth. So naturally (contract or not) we are to serve the truth. A natural rule that goes without saying is that we should not serve falsehood. The human fantasy is the only source of falsehood in the universe. We serve the truth by making our fantasy (jinn) submit to us like it was supposed to the first time.

How on earth can we answer the hell-forever part? The eternal hell. The only time I can justify hell if one of us AGREED to be created and AGREED to participate in God's trial.

Hell is fueled by the fantasies (jinn). It is a state and is not an actual physical place. It is a state of remaining stuck in our worst fantasies and we are unable to move to the next phase of creation since the god creates only with the truth. In the new phase of creation, the good fantasies that submitted to us will be given water (the ingredient of life) and will become new life forms (call this heaven). This is all natural and expected.

Those stuck in this state will remain as long as the heavens and earth remain. Again, this is natural since the heavens and earth were created with the truth and bad false fantasies cannot be given life in the god's creation

163. He created the heavens and the earth with the truth be he exalted above what they set as partner

Peace,

Ayman

I don't know about universe coz I don't believe in it .. But human fantasy or imagination is not the only source of falsehood..
Even you agree or not before human a malak was in falsehood on his own... What was the falsehood? Falsehood was his arrogance.. Arrogance is not the right choice for created things... Arrogance comes coz of falsehood... And other falsehood the m as kal did was denying the Creator's command .. That's manifestly his own decision.. No human is involved in his decision...
Third falsehood is he decided to revenge.. Revenge on all God's creation which is created for Testing... Revenge coz he chosed the falsehood on his own and he knew the outcome of falsehood.. So.. He decided to revenge who was directly or indirectly reason for his falsehood.. Up until he was in elite group..
So.. He got a a respite from his Lord to accomplish what he willed what he chosen the falsehood wrong path... Human has nothing to do with it.. Coz it was not human who did all this...
Human waa only a trap to it but not all. That fallen malak (iblees) is like advertisement giving attraction to go for it... Human is not the only source of falsehood... All falsehood started well before human ever did a falsehood.. Humans first ever falsehood is denying the order of God...
Try to grasp it...
Human is given his own faculties to think and choose right and leave wrong ... That faculty is within himself... How he uses is his own business... Every individual is questioned coz he is responsible for what he does.. Human is not human without brain... Or dath matter if human loses his thinking power he is no more human.. Don't you see when brain fails and they act like child or totally against to their character. Not even able to understand anything.. That all part of human... So acting like a child is not his genuine choice but one faculty fails. . So fantasy or imagination is human choice using the faculty he is provided with...
He may go wrong listening to the deception(whispers) of Satan or listening to his fellow human deception. But it is his choice... Within himself..

Regarding your point of malak.. I am sorry I have given my full understanding of Quran what malak is anf if you deviate thata your fantasy.. Agaun I say malak is a creature jinn created by fire and not non existing status for which you have not brought any proof and you won't and you can't bring from Quran..

Peace Jkhan,

Just listen to what you are saying. You are saying that Iblees was the source of falsehood. You are actually confirming what I am saying if you stop and think instead of being concerned with winning some argument. I am saying that Iblees is the fantasy and that the fantasy is the source of all falsehood in the universe. Each human has a fantasy attached to him or her. Also, everything will be clearer when you ponder on 326, which clearly says that "mlk" is a status not a specie.

Peace,

Ayman

Peace sister Houriya,

1. What is your interpretation of the word "MSJD"? I tend to agree with brother Wakas that it doesn't make sense for it to mean mosques or congregational buildings. No one in their right mind would have sexual relations with his spouse in a public space.

2. What is your interpretation is the purpose of "siyam"/abstinence/fasting?

3. How do you interpret "siyam" in 595? How is it a way for the violator of the hunting restriction to "taste the evil result of his deed"?

4. Also, how does the timing relate to your interpretation of "siyam" and its purpose?

Peace,

Ayman

Salamu Alaikum. This site is not new to me at all--I've looked at the search function many times in the past and I must say that your posts here have ultimately led to my conversion to Islam.
Thank you very much and please do not silence your voice or your thoughts online--it helps many. Don't leave any thoughts that support Islam unsaid!

Peace Mclinkin,

Welcome to the forum and I thank the god it was helpful to you. The term "islam" is not a meaningless proper name. It is a common noun that means peacemaking. I am glad that you are a peacemaker and support peacemaking.

Peace and best wishes,

Ayman

Peace brother Wakas,

Could you please clarify a few points for me? It has been a while since we discussed this issue.

1. What is your interpretation of the 1st focal point/target?
2. How was making/allowing this 1st focal point/target a test? How is this test applicable today?
3. I think you are still interpreting the 2nd focal as "the inviolable time of submission" and I think that this is further interpreted by you as the inviolable full-moons where hunting is restricted. Could you clarify how this reconciles with the change of the focal point. Is the 2nd focal point only during this time or is it permanent?
4. How do the people of the book know that "the inviolable time of submission" is the truth from their lord? How do they know it as they know their own children?

Peace,

Ayman

I think you have not answered one of my key questions.. Unless I missed.. From my end it is imperative to pose certain questions based on your answer...
Question was..

Is the Day of ressurection literal / actual / physical ?

The descriptions of the day of resurrection in the great reading are clearly allegorical.

This is concerned with your official acceptance of Hell not a place but a state ...
If you are still in this forum, pls respond.. So that I would in sha Allah clarify why Hell is Literal..
Just a reply of Yes or No is even enough to my question..
Your quotes about .
"Hell is literal but its descriptions are allegorical"
"Hell is not a place but is a state of no life and no death. It is a state of being trapped in one’s own worst fantasies. It is like a constant eternal nightmare.."
Very funny your quotes.. ;D

If you think superficially then of course you will find it funny. However, if you think a little deeper and even take it physically then what physically gives the feeling of pain is not the fire but it is the electric signals from the nervous system to the brain. If the brain spontaneously produces a signal that is equal to the maximum pain it is able to register then this will be the worst pain it feels and worse than any physical fire. This is a physical scientific fact.

Peace,

Ayman

917 And a soul / nafs and what He made.
918 So He inspired / alhamaha him (nafs) his immorality, as well as his piety!.

Exactly, inspired its immorality and piety, not inspired its lies. Immorality happens when the self loses control and falls under the control if the imagination. The god is the truth and creates with the truth. The god doesn't inspire lies. The ONLY source of lies in the universe is the human imagination.

Peace,

Ayman

These verses are addressed to our heart to understand their meaning.

Unlike the brain, the heart doesn't have reasoning/understanding ability. The only way to understand allegorical imagery is via the imagination. The imagination then triggers feelings (the heart). If we take allegorical passages literally then we will not understand them.

Everything we do is governed by thought.
I created a thread dedicated to thought, inspiration and creativity
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611105.0

Thank you. I will try to check it.

1764 "And entice whoever you can of them with your voice, and mobilize all your forces / cavalry /alkhayl and men against them, and you may share with them in their money and children, and promise them." But the devil promises nothing but deceit.
Alkayl doesn't mean imagination = khayal, but forces / cavalry.

Remember the "get off your high horse" allegory. Horses in the past were a status symbol for nobility. The meaning of "khayl" is derived from arrogance "mokhtal" which is a product of the imagination "khayal". Also, your translation of "men" is inaccurate. The word is "rijlk" not "rijalk".

I had already said it before, I think the ego is our invisible companion of which the reading speaks.
The ego is always right, wants to have the last word, believes that it can control everything, which is at the origin of the exhaustion of humans.

The ego is the product of the imagination that inflates our ego.

When the human is identified with a thought, with the physical body, with goods , money, children, professional, family situation..etc he becomes proud, liar, violent, stingy, he think he is powerful ... etc

All lies in the universe come from the human imagination. His imagination makes him proud and he "imagines" he is powerful.

Consciousness, attention, connection purifies our inner state
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611098.0

Yes being conscious and attentive to the real you (that is part of the truth in the universe) allows you to control your imagination and make it submit to you.

Men among the jin and humans both think.
726 "And there were men from among mankind who used to seek help from the men among the Jinn, but they only increased them in sin."
727 "And they thought as you thought, that God would not send anyone."
The word men/rijal has a literal meaning for both humans and jin.

Haven't you heard of imaginary men? Don't Sunnis seek help from an imaginary man in Hadiths named Mohamed who is not the real Mohamed? Don't Christian seek help from an imaginary man named Jesus who is not the real Jesus?

When we are in a state of mental void, we receive inspiration to create directly from the infinite source of creativity.
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611105.0

That's not what I said, to sum up, a blind man with a healthy heart is able to understand unlike one who sees with a sick, veiled, sealed heart.

Since the heart is not the physical organ people "understand" with then the passage is clearly allegorical. I am sure there are lots of idolaters who have healthy hearts while there are many monotheists with high cholesterol and high blood pressure and physically unhealthy hearts . Again, you are confirming that the passage is allegorical.

Peace,

Ayman

God said to His malaika I am gonna place khalifa on Earth.. Malaika said they will shed blood...
Has God created Men at this time? No.. But planning to create..
But How did malaika know Men will shed blood..?
Had Iblees fallen at this time? No.. After Adam's creation and order to submit only iblees fallen...
So how did malaika knew?

The "malaika"/controllers know the future. They also knew the future in 1880 However, the future (time) is not linear but is multi-dimensional. So it is dependent on our choices.

If you are happy with fantasy I am not here to bring anymore explanation.. But my only wish is to expose truth by God.. In case if my understanding is wrong may Allah let me understand truth somehow .. Be it what Ayman explains truth may God expose to me and let me comprehend.. Truth is one and there is no second truth to truth..

No matter what you are happy with you know that the human fantasy is the ONLY source of falsehood in the universe. This is why you didn't answer my question about the source of falsehood.

Peace,

Ayman

Ayman your statements must be based on all the verses dealing with the subject. You only used a few of them, some short verses ( what about the above and the following ?)
In all occurences of "jin", can you replace this word with "fantasies" ?

Yes. All occurrences of "jin" we can replace the word with "fantasies." This makes better sense than leaving it untranslated because we are clueless about its meaning or replacing it with other popular meanings such as ghosts or red men with forks or serpents/reptilians )

Will Malaika go to Hell though they are Jinn by creation and created by Fire? No.. Coz they are not part of Testing… God created Men and Jin for testing and Not elite Malaika..

Malak is just a status. If a malak/controller disobeys the god then they will stop being a malak.

4129 “ those who disbelieved will say, "Our Lord, show us those who misled us of the jinn and men we may put them under our feet that they will be among the lowest."
The above verse is the dialogue of those who are in Hell… what they request from God? They want to know who are those who misled them from MEN and JINN… the one who misled and the one got misled all in same boat.. If it is the FANTASY of human misled those in Hell, why they should beg to God to show those who misled them of MEN and JINN?... Further, how they can put those who misled them under their feet? How can they put the fantasy of their own under their feet so that it goes to the lowest? Doesn’t it manifestly indicate that MEN and JINN both in Hell going through to what they did in the past? Yes it is…
If one doesn’t not understand this clear verse, I wonder who would ever understand any verse..

Again, the passage makes it clear that the fantasies and humans are tied together. A fantasy are powerless without a human that serves it. A fantasy can make the human imagine that a stone cube in Mecca has power to forgive sins if you spin around it 7 times. This remains a mental picture until the fantasy controls some human dude who builds a stone cube and invents a Hadith that says spinning 7 times around it will make you sinless. This is how all idol worship works. It starts with the fantasy and then the human creates the false idol of the fantasy.

Peace,

Ayman

Not quite as per what you described ...but maybe these are the verses that you are looking for?
And on the Day when We gather them all, then We will say to the malaikah/controllers “Was it you that these people used to serve?”
They will say “Be You glorified. You are our Master, not they". Nay, they were serving the Jinn; most were believers to them.

Thank you. This is exactly what is happening. Idolaters thing that the fantasies control things. For example, they think a black stone in Mecca controls wiping sins. In reality they have faith in a fantasy not real controllers. Obviously, those who serve fantasies and believe in them are going to hell.

Peace,

Ayman

Sorry a little bit out of topic ...I just check your website http//www.quran4peace.org/ (English section)
I am looking forward to the completion of all chapters in English (so far only 3 chapters are available in English).

I have completed a draft of 5 additional chapters and working on another one for the total of 9 chapters (so far). I want to make sure all the chapters mesh well together and then publish everything at once. This is one of the topics I discuss in the book and hence this discussion is very useful

Peace,

Ayman

There is truth and falsehood, which we can face in our life, some times we know what is what before hand, most times we dont know, If the truth the reality comes from God, the unreality or falsehood that we take from the entity I call Jinn.

In modern world there are so many falsehoods that spread, so many false claims, that attract people more than the reality,
I agree and like what Brother Ayman proposes, in a way our own fantasies makes us believe and fall for these falsehoods, in a way many people do not like the simple truth, instead go after the big falsehoods, like our television for TRP pushes up all the exaggerated lies to the people. And see how imaginary enemies and entities are being created now for example the ISIS, its not only the fault of those spreading these, but naivety of the people believing these and fall for these, instead of the simple real truth that will be hidden from them due to their misguidance.

You have made an excellent point. While all truth comes from the god, all falsehood comes from "jinn." The ONLY source of falsehood in the universe is the human imagination. No one can argue against this indisputable fact. Thank you.

"How he knows... This person is using Men of Jinn for his assistance.. That's what people say.. "
most people really looking for miracles and Jinns so they could see and get assistance from them.
In your case I think the real Jinn could be the friend assisting.
long back people believed these Jinn and ghost stories for their unsolvable issues, now people give reasons for most but yet I see belief plays are positive role for many who could not find reasons.

Belief plays no role in knowing the concept of "jinn"/fantasy. In fact most of those who believe in "jinn"/fantasy are going to hell per 3441.

Why God says before reading Quran to seek refuge in God from Satan.. Coz reacts by watching not by what we imagine ... God only knows what we think and what is in our hearts which propels for imagination? Iblees has no such capacity ...

Where do you think lies come from? According to the great reading, they come from satan, correct?

It is a fact that the human imagination is the only source of falsehood in the universe.

Peace,

Ayman

Whats about the personal experience of someone?

Example in my case many years ago i met a person who claimed to have jinn who tell him things and first time he saw me and told me things what really shocked me like, my name, the purpose of my visit, even he tell a thing what really amaze me i was with two of my aunts who were sisters to eachother and also their kids married with eachother and person ask from my aunts whats ur relation to eachother and they said, we are sisters. He laughed and said you have another relation and they both get shocked too.
What i saw as a first hand witness i cant deny how you will see at those events?

The imagination is a very powerful tool. It is used by tricksters, fraudsters, and con artists.

you say “ Out of all the interpretations of "jinn", ghosts, red man with a fork, snakes, reptilians ... only fantasy makes sense and is in line with the great reading and with what we know about ourselves.”
no one said that jinn are ghosts or red men with forks or reptilians etc or that angels have white robes and halos etc ... all we are saying is that jinn are creatures created by The God and definately not human fantasies (i do not even see the logic in “fantasies” lol) ...
it’s quite obvious throughout the Quran that jinn are a separate creature ... and my understanding is that jinn and angels are same creation, but jinn disbelieved whilst angels believed in The God (perhaps i am wrong)

Where in the great reading it says that "jinn" and "angels" (whatever that means since the term angels is not even in the great reading) are the same creation? The great reading is clear that "malak" is just a status given by the god (see 336).

i think the Quran is literal ... and when examples are made, we are explicitly told that they are examples .. but everything is the truth and literal ... i believe no allegory or examples unless stated they are examples or allegories

So according to you there are no allegories in the great reading. This is very strange. So according to you when the great reading says in 1729 "do not make your hand tied to your neck" it means do not physically strangle yourself and not do not allegorically be stingy since we are not explicitly told this is an allegory.

Peace,

Ayman