Peace, I don't think I'll buy that logic that says your father/mother is always right, because that really is not true and I say from experience. I think yes, we have an obligation to respect and honor our parents, but if they are doing something that you know firmly is not the right thing, then I guess I'll stand up for truth even if it against them, God Willing.

Peace be upon you Taj, If those people decide to disconnect from that inner programming then it is their choice, which could be temporary, who knows? I am not in a place to describe them anything because they may change their minds at one point or another, and I don?t think I will be with them till the moment they die, when they may be dying surrendering to that programming. Don't we always think that we have decided on something for good only to change our minds few minutes later! So to label someone as a none-submitter looks like final to me, when all the while that person is still alive and still may get back on track! Do you get me, Kyle? Yes, I understand you completely. But the reality is that there ARE MANY MANY MANY people who are not submitters. It is not wrong to be able to discern if one is submitting or not. (9114) Abraham's asking for forgiveness for his father was not except on a promise he promised it (to only) him, so when (it) was clarified/explained to him, that he (his father is) an enemy to God, he declared innocence from him, that Abraham (is a) clement, forebearing. (6010) You, you those who have faith, if the faithful females came to you emigrating , so test/examine them, The God (is) more knowing with their faith, so if you know them (to be) faithful, so do not return them to the disbelievers... How does one go about the above life situations if we are not allowed to discern between a submitter and a rejecter? The Pharoah is a special case! How so? Why would the God use a "special case" when giving us examples? That saying I choose not to adopt, because I don't know what goes inside people's hearts. I would prefer to assume that they are! I understand thatyou want to maintain positivity, but you should not fool yourself into thinking that all people submit to the God. That is a fantasy world. If everyone submitted, Azygous (the one who started this thread) would not have needed to start this thread. Because the end is very critical. By the end only it will be decided whether that person died as a surrender or not, regardless of what he did in his life. Some people would do fine during their lives but towards the end they change, and the opposite is true. These matters are beyond ability to calculate! Taj, you continue to twist my position. I am not saying that one who AT THIS TIME is not submitting will always be lost. All I am saying is that you canot call everyone "muslim" because that is just not the case. hat contradicts the entire reading(quran). It is possible for a person to die while surrendering to this truth or while denying it but how do I Know? I never said you would know, but you can look at the words and actions of a human and tell if they are walking the God's path of Peace, or the other path of wickedness. What path is the terrorist on who blows up innocent children and himself? Or the politician who drops bombs on innocent children? You call them submitters? Yes, a Muslim is a state of being for all humans unless they choose to disconnect with themselves! Taj, let me ask you, why did you take me through all of this just to end up saying exactly what I reminded you of? D Do you realize just how many people are DISCONNECTED, as you put it? Peace to you, lets bring this thread back to the topic it was intended for.

Well, my dad left for a year and a half and came back a month ago. In his absence my mother bought a dog for my brothers since she had to work most of the time and they were alone. Now my dad comes back and he's been saying that the dog is dirty and now the house is dirty...like we can't pray in it and stuff. Well let's see...I've never seen my dad pray in his house my entire life unless a guest wanted to pray. My dad goes out to drink at bars every Friday and Saturday night. Also, I am pretty sure he has cheated on my mother more than a few times. Now he is complaining that the house is "dirty" because of the dog. He says dogs are nice creatures but Islam says they are not clean. I have just been ignoring him when he starts complaining about the dog because I don't want to get into an argument with him. My parent's are divorcing and he's letting my brothers stay with my mother but if I start arguing with him and he percieves that I am not a "muslim" or i am "anti-islam" he might change his mind and try to take my brothers with him back to the middle-east. (Now, I have no problem with the middle-east but I think at this point in life for my brothers it's better if they just continue their education here where their friends are and stuff. They are 8 and 11.)