I have mentioned in various places on this Forum the Mathematical and Statistical perfection of the Qur'an, facts that make it virtually impossible any human created this 1400 years ago; it is simply not possible sorry Abdun Nur you could not be more wrong. Anyone who claims the Qur'an has been corrupted has already disbelieved in it.
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608259.msg383604#msg383604
So what evidence will you bring to prove your claim Abdun Nur? We are all waiting...
I am from Northern California, Santa Cruz to be exact, living in Humboldt since I was 18.
Completely disagree Neptim. A slow metabolism is great, as long as you do not eat too much. Really Ramadan in a sense trains you to not be such an over-consumer, as many people are today. It is a true blessing from God that he has given us this month to fast; I truly suggest you all fast it as prescribed.
"To manage your weight with a slow metabolism, you must lower your calorie intake. This could be beneficial, however. Calorie restriction can slow the aging process, help prevent diabetes, abdominal obesity, hypertension and cardiovascular disease and reduce your risk of certain cancers, according to the Federation of European Biochemical Societies" http//healthyeating.sfgate.com/advantages-slow-metabolism-9657.html
"Thyroid hormone plays a big role in regulating your metabolism and energy expenditure, and low levels of thyroid hormones correlate with a slow metabolism. A study published in a 2010 edition of "The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism" found that low thyroid activity correlates with an increased life expectancy. This could be due to the fact that with a faster metabolism, the body must work harder, putting it under more stress, notes obesity expert Dr. Joel Fuhrman." http//healthyeating.sfgate.com/advantages-slow-metabolism-9657.html
God is helping you live longer by completing the month of fasting for Ramadan, that is why he says "Fasting is better for, if you only knew".
Best regards and Salaam,
Clash.
Salamu alaykum Noon,
Ok I see your conundrum now. However, if you wake up on a deserted island with no one that knows about Ramadan, then how would you know about the Qur'an in the first place to even care one way or the other?
Again, I think some of us are reading too much into this. Remember some verses are clear and some are allegorical, don't take the allegorical verses over the clear ones is my advice.
As far as 2183-4 and 584 go, I guess we will have to agree to disagree on interpretations here Noon, as it seems clear to me that the expiation for not fasting one day is feeding one poor person.
Best regards and Salaam,
Clash.
I am not sure I understand your response Noon. What is your argument exactly?
Obviously everyone can choose to follow what they want, but from the previous conversations I have had here for years including those over the past week or so I cannot say I have seen stronger evidence against fasting the month than I have seen evidence for fasting the month; thus, I will fast insha'Allah. To each their own.
Ramadan Mubarak/Kareem everyone, however you may be celebrating it!
Salaam,
Clash.
Salamu Alaykum Noon,
Thanks for 589, no I did not see that you mentioned that before.
I will have to disagree however as it seems we are comparing apples and oranges.
One issue is fasting the month of Ramadan, thirty days. The reason we get one day of not fasting=feeding one poor person during Ramadan is because of verses 2183-4
"O ye who believe! Fasting is prescribed to you as it was prescribed to those before you, that ye may (learn) self-restraint,- (Fasting) for a fixed number of days; but if any of you is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed number (Should be made up) from days later. For those who can do it (With hardship), is a ransom, the feeding of one that is indigent. But he that will give more, of his own free will,- it is better for him. And it is better for you that ye fast, if ye only knew." 2183-4
The fact that there are 30 days in the month of Ramadan and if you were to miss fasting all of those days for some reason, maybe you were on a voyage in the North Pole and the Sun was setting that year for example, it would be considered a "hardship" and you would make up the days later by feeding 1 poor person for each day. This is fine and in the context of fasting, no problems here.
Your example from 589 is about someone who has taken an oath and then broken it. Let's look at the whole verse
"Allah will not call you to account for what is futile in your oaths, but He will call you to account for your deliberate oaths for expiation, feed ten indigent persons, on a scale of the average for the food of your families; or clothe them; or give a slave his freedom. If that is beyond your means, fast for three days. That is the expiation for the oaths ye have sworn. But keep to your oaths. Thus doth Allah make clear to you His signs, that ye may be grateful." 589
This verse clearly gives people an ability to atone for breaking their oaths, which is great. The price is feeding 10 people, clothing 10 people, or giving a slave their freedom; these are very high prices. If you are unable to do this because of poverty then you can make it up with a lesser fast, but it is preferable to pay one of the first of the three high prices, and most everyone can afford to feed 10 people, even in the poorest villages I have lived in the Peruvian Andes I have witnessed that. Thus, I do not think these things can be compared as one is a command to fast during Ramadan (and God reminds us, "it is better for you if you fast, if you only knew", while the other is an expiation for a broken oath, and this expiation (3 days of fasting) has been lessened extremely from the first three high prices to put ease on the one who is unable.
These are extreme cases and not the norm, while the Qur'an allows for these situations to occur, I do not think we should elevate disparate and less clear verses over clear verses.
We should all remember,
"He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding." 37
Best regards and Salaam,
Clash.
Salamu Alaykum Brook,
Yes there can be 13 full moons in a year. It is called a Blue Moon, which is why Shahar means month and not full moon.
"A "Blue Moon" is the name given to the second full moon in a calendar month. Because there are roughly 29.5 days between full moons, it is unusual for two full moons to "fit" into a 30 or 31 day month (and impossible to fit into a 28 or 29 day month, so February can never have a Blue Moon)...In January and March of 1999, we had a situation which only takes place about four times a century two Blue Moons occurring in the same year. The last time this happened was in January and April of 1961 and it will not happen again until January and March of 2018. " https//nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/blue_moon.html
Also, still no one has answered about 584, which tells us that 2 months of fasting=feeding 60 poor people for the 60 days of the two months; thus, if you did not understand 2184-2190, here it is made clear for you that 1 month of fasting (Ramandan)= feeding thirty poor people for the 30 days of the month.
Best regards and Salaam,
Clash.
Salamu Alaykum Brook,
This is a misquote of 936. Here is the full beginning of that verse
The number of months in the sight of Allah is twelve (in a year).
Yes 12 months in a year (not 12 full moons by the way, as there can be more than 12), about 30 days each, gives us our Lunar Year. Which is why Ramadan is starting in about 9 days and will go for about 30 days after that insha'Allah.
Again, no one has addressed 584 which clearly states that two months of fasting=60 days, therefore logically 1 month of fasting=30 days. I do not see what is so difficult for everyone to understand here. Am I missing something?
Best regards and Salaam,
Clash.
?And (it is) a Quran which We have divided (into parts), in order that you might recite it to men at intervals. And We have revealed it by stages.? .
?And those who disbelieve say Why is not the Quran revealed to him all at once? Thus (it is sent down in parts), that We may strengthen your heart thereby. And We have revealed it to you gradually, in stages.? .
I am sorry I have to disagree with you all about this. Shahar means month, not the full moon; and the Qur'an was revealed in stages, just as the Qur'an states. I do not know where you get this idea that it was revealed all at once, even taking Layltul Al-Qadr in to account. Most believe it was sent to the first heaven (to Jibril) on Layltul Al-Qadr and then revealed over the 23 years of the prophet's life. Sending and revealing being two separate actions.
What do you all think? I know we are leaving the topic of Ramadan a bit, and still no one has addressed my question about verse 584 and the 60 poor people you should feed to makeup for 2 months of fasting. How does that fit in the equation of the meaning of shahar and the number of days it consists of?
Best regards and Salaam,
Clash.
Salaam all,
I suggest you all take a look at the other thread on Ramadan where we are discussing this issue with jemby97. https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609528.0
"Salaam again jemby,
I still think we are missing a huge point here everyone. In my humble opinion, shahar does not mean full moon, it means month. The 'hu in falyasum'hu is referring to shahar, the month. Look at the other instances of shahar in the Qur'an, does it seem like it is referring to a full moon? Start here with 584
"But whoever cannot find the means must fast for two consecutive months before they may touch one another. And if he is unable, then the feeding of sixty needy people. This, in order that you affirm your faith in God and His Messenger. These are the ordinances of God. The unbelievers will have a painful punishment." 584
This verse is discussing the atonement for wrongly accusing your wife of being her mother, or worse, and clearly states that you will fast for two months. And if you cannot fast then you are obliged to feed a poor person for each day of the fast, which is why you must then feed 60 poor people.
This seems quite clear to me and I am not sure where the discrepancy lies for everyone. Please let me know."
Go check out the other Ramadan thread, we should try to bring all of these ideas together. If we are to feed 60 people instead of fasting for two months (30 days X 2 months = 60 days of fasting) for this atonement, why would fasting for the one month of Ramadan be any different than 30 days?
It seems odd we would all have that different of an opinion on this issue; however, I am sure God will accept all if our intentions are correct.
Best regards and Salaam,
Kyle
Salamu Alaykum Farati,
Don't let people get you confused. Ramadan is very clear, 30 days of fasting, dawn to dusk starting on Friday night 5/26 where I live insha'Allah this year of 2017. Fast with all of us! Do not be afraid. Once you fast a number of times you will see why this challenge is so good for all of us. Fasting will decrease the speed of your metabolism, which will allow you to eat less and use what you eat more efficiently throughout the year. This does not even begin to mention the spiritual effects.
I highly recommend you complete Ramadan as stated in the Qur'an
"Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qur'an, as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (Between right and wrong). So every one of you who is present (at his home) during that month should spend it in fasting, but if any one is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed period (Should be made up) by days later. Allah intends every facility for you; He does not want to put to difficulties. (He wants you) to complete the prescribed period, and to glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful...Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives. They are your garments and ye are their garments. Allah knoweth what ye used to do secretly among yourselves; but Heturned to you and forgave you; so now associate with them, and seek what Allah Hath ordained for you, and eat and drink, until the white thread of dawn appear to you distinct from its black thread; then complete your fast Till the night appears; but do not associate with your wives while ye are in retreat in the mosques. Those are Limits (set by) Allah Approach not nigh thereto. Thus doth Allah make clear His Signs to men that they may learn self-restraint." 2185, 2187
Go check out some of my previous posts on Ramadan here, and I have laid out some excellent tips there about foods to eat, drinking water, sleep, etc. Ramadan is a blessed month and I wish you the best in your fasting, however you may interpret it.
Best regards and Salaam,
Clash.
Salaam again jemby,
I still think we are missing a huge point here everyone. In my humble opinion, shahar does not mean full moon, it means month. The 'hu in falyasum'hu is referring to shahar, the month. Look at the other instances of shahar in the Qur'an, does it seem like it is referring to a full moon? Start here with 584
"But whoever cannot find the means must fast for two consecutive months before they may touch one another. And if he is unable, then the feeding of sixty needy people. This, in order that you affirm your faith in God and His Messenger. These are the ordinances of God. The unbelievers will have a painful punishment." 584
This verse is discussing the atonement for wrongly accusing your wife of being her mother, or worse, and clearly states that you will fast for two months. And if you cannot fast then you are obliged to feed a poor person for each day of the fast, which is why you must then feed 60 poor people.
This seems quite clear to me and I am not sure where the discrepancy lies for everyone. Please let me know.
Best regards and Salaam,
Clash.
Salamu Alaykum Jemby and nice to meet you!
You state that shahar means month or moon, but in my experience that is not completely correct. A few verses after that in 2189 it states,
"They ask you, , about the new moons. Say, "They are measurements of time for the people and for Hajj." And it is not righteousness to enter houses from the back, but righteousness is one who fears Allah. And enter houses from their doors. And fear Allah that you may succeed."
The word use for new moons here is ahlihati, and it is only used four other times in the Qur'an every time in the form uhilla , which means "to be dedicated to" and is used in the context of forbidden meat that has been "dedicated to" a deity other than God. http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=hll#(21893)
Any other instances of the word moon in the Qur'an appear as qamar and it appears 27 times. http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=qmr
My last reason I am inclined to not believe this line of reasoning is mathematics. The Qur'an appears to have very specific and precise mathematics associated with it (if you had not studied this subject I highly recommend it). This precise mathematics occurs in many ways, but one is in the number of times certain words are used in the Qur'an. I will give you an example before I explain about Shahar.
Look up the word sea ( ر in the Quran corpus and you will find that the singular noun sea occurs 33 times in the Qur'an. http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=bHr Now look up the word land ( ر and you will see that land occurs 14 times. http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=brr#(65911) Find their ratio 3314 = 29.7% and 70.2%. "Seen from space, the majority of the Earth's surface is covered by oceans ? that makes up 71% of the surface of the Earth, with the remaining 29% for land." Interestingly, depending on your grammatical counting of words, I have seen these numbers be anywhere from 26%/74% to 30%/70%. As the ratio of land to water in the Earth is always fluctuating it makes sense the Qur'an includes this even in the number of times words are used. https//water.usgs.gov/edu/watercycleoceans.html
Now as for Shahar, let's do the same thing. Look up the word shahar ( ر and it will return this http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=$hr#(21851). If you count the number of times shahar is used in its original form and not the plural you will see that it is 12 times. Here is a list if you want to see http//www.answering-christianity.com/day_365_month_12_times_in_quran.htm
Weighing all of this information is difficult, but for me it seems clear that shahar means month, and not moon or intensely hot moon (i.e. full moon), and that even though a new moon is a sign for the beginning of months it does not mean we should be fasting after a full moon as you have suggested. Instead, I will attempt to fast this month of Ramadan insha'Allah.
Thank you for your post jemby97, I found it a very interesting take on these verses. As always God knows best and I am sure we will all be accepted should our intentions be correct.
Salaam,
Your brother Clash
Salamu Alaykum sister and a warm welcome to you!
I am happy that you have found this site as well and I hope that you will find the discussions, debates, and conversations here to be of interest to you. I also hope that you find our members to be cordial, thoughtful, and respectful.
Your story sounds not disimilar to many of the people here. It will be interesting to see how Islam forms as it penetrates the West more and more. Islam always has its own flavor in each region of the world it reaches it seems.
Greetings from the rural hills and giant Redwoods of Northern California!
Salaam,
Clash.
Salamu Alaykum brother,
DO NOT COMMIT SUICIDE! Whatever social or familial pressures you are feeling now will pass as Layth said, but the punishment from Allah may never end if we lose hope in Allah and commit suicide; this is absolutely against Islam. In your case do not worry about masturbation, worry about these suicidal feelings you are having. Patience is your best friend in this is situation. Wait some years and this horrible incident will pass. Also, know that whoever violated your privacy in such a way has committed a grave error in this regard.
You will get past this insha'Allah.
Say, "O My servants who have transgressed against themselves , do not despair of the mercy of Allah. Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful." 3953
Hope you keep posting to the forum.
Best regards and Salaam,
Clash.
Peace upon you sla27 and welcome!
I encourage you to put your questions and concerns forward on this forum and, God willing, you will receive some beneficial responses from some of the highly informed members here. I hope you find the discourses engaging, fruitful, and cordial.
My wife says similar to you sla27, she does not like the verses of punishment/hell in the Qur'an; however, I would contend that no one "likes" these verses necessarily, they are frightening to say the least, and they are meant to be so. I am a teacher sla27, and we have a concept in teaching called pedagogical theory/learning theory, or the different ways material can be taught so that different types of students can learn effectively, as not all students learn in the same manner. I will try to list here some of the teaching methods of God in the Qur'an that I have observed and attach them to this modern academic discipline. http//edutechwiki.unige.ch/en/Learning_theory
You can imagine with a book like the Qur'an, God will need to speak to every type of individual in every different time, context, and culture, including you today in 2016 (Sociocultural Theory). It will also need to address people that learn in different ways. Some people learn through logic and reasoning (Cognitive Theory), thus the Qur'an discusses many times the natural phenomena of our world (physical/biological laws), while asking you to "yatafakaroon" - "reflect" on their nature and reason. Other people learn through emotions and feelings , thus the Qur'an often asks people to feed the poor, protect the orphans, and defend the oppressed (Social Practice/Liberatory Autonomy). Still others learn through reward and enticement (Motivational Theory), thus the Qur'an speaks of Paradise and the many luxuries it may entail. Finally, to return to the punishment/hell verses, there are individuals who learn through "tough love" (Behaviorism), thus the Qur'an speaks of punishments and deterrents.
You sound like a person who learns through observation, critical thinking, logic/reason, and morality. Guard these qualities, and approach the Qur'an (and the world) with them, I am sure you will not be lead astray. Know that God is Compassionate and Merciful. You know what is right and wrong, do your best, and God willing your efforts will not be in vain.
I apologize on behalf of the other Muslims you have encountered previously who may have left a bad taste in your mouth, I wish I could offer you your favorite drink to remove it.
Welcome to Free Minds sla27!
Salaam,
Clash.
Salamu Alaykum and Ramadan Kareem!
It seems many of you are missing a key aspect of the verse 2184 on how to fast.
"...And upon those who are able - a ransom of feeding a poor person ...) 2184
So clearly if you are in the North Pole, you will not fast an entire 30 days with no eating or drinking; this is simply a ridiculous statement, and you would die. Instead, you will feed 30 poor people. Very simple answer folks.
Salaam,
Clash.
Salamu Alaykum all and Ramadan Kareem!
From my own experience of Ramadan, I can say that fasting not only makes me stronger, but it also has benefited my health in countless ways. During Ramadan, I am in my best shape, I have the most energy, and my (not to be crude) bodily functions are all working at top notch.
I also notice that fasting helps you to regulate your metabolism. Throughout the year, my body now requires less food as it uses it more efficiently and is storing far less as useless fat. I also am able to fast easier every year, as my body is now accustomed to ketosis, or changing its energy source from food in the stomach/intestines, to fat stores. For me, Ramadan is a blessing, and everyone should try to do it if they are able in my opinion.
If they are able of course is a big issue, which is why God so brilliantly and explicitly laid out the criteria in the few verses that exist on Ramadan fasting, I think we all know them well. So that guy with diabetes, obviously was going against God's recommendation in the Qur'an, for example.
Additionally, as other forum members mentioned, fasting in general is actually prescribed as a cure for many diseases. Here are a couple links on that information
http//www.allaboutfasting.com/benefit-of-fasting-degenerative-diseases.html
Beneficial effect on serum apo AI, apo B and Lp AI levels of Ramadan fasting http//www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0009898197002453
Of course, everyone's body chemistry is slightly different. Thus, as God says, if it is an extreme hardship on you, then feed one poor person for each day of the fast (this is a good thing to do anyway).
Salaam everyone and Ramadan Kareem!
It is great you have decided to read the Qur'an, keep reading, you shall not be disappointed.
As for the repetition, I agree with everyone here about the same important concepts being repeated multiple times, but I also highly agree with Timotheus about the memorizing scheme. This is why learning Arabic is so important if you want to study Al-Qur'an in my opinion. I will post here one example which I have found just recently.
Translation Arabic Transliteration
Surah Ash-Shams - The Sun
911 By the sun and its brightness Washshamsi waduhaha
912 And the moon when it follows it Walqamari itha talaha
913 And the day when it displays it Wannahari itha jallaha
914 And the night when it covers it Wallayli itha yaghshaha
Surah Al-Layl - The Night
921 By the night when it covers Wallayli itha yaghsha
922 And the day when it appears Wannahari itha tajalla
As you can see the wording is almost exactly the same, key word almost, as it is actually quite different when you recite it in Arabic. In my opinion, that difference is key as it helps you to remember, and tell apart, one chapter from another, and one verse from another. If you want to see what that might sound like I am sure you can search for someone reciting these chapters on You Tube.
The repetition is not exact repetition if you read the book in Arabic, a verse that might sound the same in the English translation could actually have a different meaning, sound, and feel in the original Arabic language.
I also noticed while writing this that these chapters are The Sun and The Night respectively, they also reverse the order of how they introduce Day "nahar" and Night "layl" to correspond with their titles in their respective verses. Subhan'Allah. Allah never seizes to amaze me with this Qur'an.
May God bless your studies FaithSeeker.
Salaam,
Clash.
Salamu Alaykum and Ramadan Kareem Noah!
Great to see such a young face here! May God bless you in your studies.
Listen to your heart, follow your conscience, and you will not be lead astray, insha'Allah.
Salaam from California,
Clash.
P.S. I was just telling a friend yesterday the same idea brother! "Al-hutamah" a.k.a. "The Crusher" could definitely be referring to what astrophysicists call the Big Crunch, basically everything will be destroyed except by the will of Allah as far as I understand. It also says that the fire "mounts directly at the hearts" so maybe there is also something to what imrankhawaja said about it "being a situation unhappy for the soul". Allahu 'Alam, God knows best.
As a warning to myself and others
Al Hutama - The Crusher
1041 Woe to every scorner and mocker
1042 Who collects wealth and counts it.
1043 He thinks that his wealth will make him immortal.
1044 No! He will surely be thrown into the Crusher.
1045 And what can make you know what is the Crusher?
1046 It is the fire of Allah , fueled,
1047 Which mounts directed at the hearts.
1048 Indeed, Hellfire will be closed down upon them
1049 In extended columns.