Wouldn't a non divine virgin birth result in a clone?

Salamun Alaykum,

I was just wondering, the Quran at several places mentions how it is clear, and fully explained, and easy etc. then why did God use a messenger to give us the Quran, I mean, I don't know if this is a bad example, no offense, but, He could have just send down the book as a whole without any median right?

Well, if it was sent down like that, wouldn't everyone believe instantly? It would be ultimate proof, and if God were to give ultimate proof, every human would believe, which defeats the point.

I like to imagine that communication will be beyond mere human language. Probably more like telepathy. Of course, all we can do is speculate.

"Believe"? It has nothing to do with believing...

What about reading some of the articles here, as a starter?

http//19.org/category/yuksel/19-gods-signature-in-nature-and-scripture/

Peace,
Edip

Accept Code 19 then. I'm sure you know what I mean even if my language conveys it poorly.

The Quran has prophetically described people like you very well in chapter 74. So, we know you very well.. Your fear and anger is well-understood by us.

Edip, do you believe a muslim has to believe in code 19 to be a proper Muslim and achieve salvation?

Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers.
You should strive to have Muslim friends over non Muslim, but you can have non Muslim friends.

Taqiyya is a "meme" of sorts, it's the claim that in Islam there is something called Taqiyya which allows Muslims to lie to any non Muslim to trick them into believing Islam is good. For example, if you were to explain that Islam denounces terrorism, someone might claim you're using "taqiyya" to trick them, when in reality you actually believe Islam encourages terrorism or something. They claim it's a pass to lie. It's anti Islamic propaganda, it's spread around a lot to the point that people take it as fact, despite their being no evidence of it, this verse clearly says nothing about lying to advance Islam, it says you can hang out with non muslims if it's to save your life. However if you try to explain this to them they can just say you're using Taqiyya, which is circular logic. The sort who say that will never be convinced so give up on them.

Thats some really good work.

You should consider uploading it free to Ibooks, the library app for Iphones and Ipads, short books like that get loads of views especially when free.

DaresBears, do you not go to pubs or clubs at all then?

Never clubs, sometimes i end up in pubs but i just have a coke or something and it's awkward.
It's really hard to be social in a country where everything almost completely revolves around drinking.

Strange question Steven, how do you manage to be 22 living in the UK and not drinking Alcohol? I'm a white convert, I don't have many friends because all they want to do is go out and drink, i didn't even like alcohol before i converted. Do you have the same problem?

My head is already shaved so I'm covered ;D

God thus explains His revelations for you, that you may understand.
This is the straight path to your Lord. We have explained the revelations for people who take heed.
We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?
We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?
We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?
We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?
If we made it a non-Arabic Quran they would have said, "Why did it come down in that language?" Whether it is Arabic or non-Arabic, say, "For those who believe, it is a guide and healing. As for those who disbelieve, they will be deaf and blind to it, as if they are being addressed from faraway."

There are literally hundreds of verses saying the same thing, all three points can be solved just with the Qur'an, and once again the hadithers prove themselves to be ignorant of the Qur'an.

Wow! You should tell us more about your journey. How did you become Quranist and how did you convince your wife to do the same.

Well coming to Islam from an atheist view it was easy to see the hadith for what they were and i was suspicious of them from the start, i haven't had the Islamic upbringing where everything revolves around hadith, the idea that someone could know what a man said 200 years later just by oral tradition seemed completely bogus to me, then i came across all the traditional sunni Islamic traditions, no music, grow a beard, even the crazy ones like which foot you step out of the bathroom with, i simply could not accept that at all, and i knew it was coming from these hadiths. I thought why can't i just go by the Qur'an, i really like the Qur'an, and i thought i would just do that before i even knew it was a whole big thing, i then researched it and found this site as well as so many others and realised so many people think the same as me, it was great. So yea i pretty much skipped Sunni Islam right from the beginning. As for my wife, who was my girlfriend then, i told her about it, and she initially was skeptical, she showed me verses she thought supported hadith, but i quickly showed her many against them and explained her Qur'an was a hadith influenced one, she believed me the next day after sleeping on it, she said it made so much more sense and that the hadith had actually always given her doubts over Islam but she didn't want to doubt them, because she has had the sunni Muslim upbringing. I'm glad she believed me so quick, she's a smart girl, she won't oppose something just because it's how she has been raised, she studied it herself after i told her and came to the conclusion that it's right.

That's pretty much it, don't really want to derail the thread about me ;D

Wow, that's just how it was for me, except the other way around. For the first 1.5 years of dating my now wife, i was an atheist, or agnostic, and she was Muslim. We broke up for various reasons and one of the things i had to do for her to take me back was convert to Islam, and i did it, even though i didn't really believe. But i researched more into it and ended up truly believing, and then it went so far that i discovered quran alone and turned her from Sunni to Qur'an alone.

Obviously you shouldn't break up with your boyfriend to make him convert, but you should tell him how much it means to you, if he loves you he will at least have the courtesy to research it, i think first you should just introduce him to the concept of God, it's easier to swallow from an atheist view than organised religion. Hopefully like me he will come to the logical conclusion that theism makes more sense than atheism.

Whether or not he has to be Muslim for you to be together is debatable but it seems you want him to be.

It's obvious to most people that Salafist/Wahabbis are hypocritical. Personally i don't think relics of the past should be destroyed, even if they are idols, but they pick and choose. As for ancestor worship, they don't even follow their own hadiths. I don't remember specifically, but there are some which say your heritage is not important, your faith is, so they are being hypocrites again.

You can't go wrong with just the Qur'an.

I'm a beginner Arabic but i find it useful to check the word and all other instances of it. Quranic Arabic Corpus is a great site for this.

http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=3&verse=89#(3891)
You can see that the word translated to Amend is "wa-ala", which in this particular translation is translated to "and reform themselves"

If you click on the word, you can see what it's used for in other places in the Qur'an, in different forms too.
http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=SlH#(3897)
It seems primarily to mean being righteous and doing good deeds, and then to correct or fix. Given this to me verse 389 would mean to repent and then start being a good Muslim, being righteous, fixing your behaviour by being righteous.

Hope this helped.

Edit I just noticed you already found all this, my bad nope

Critics of the Qur'an are just awful. Mostly because most of the time they literally make things up.

"And whoso seeketh as religion other than Al-Islam, it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter." - Qur'an 385

If you directly translate al-islami to Islam then this of course seems to say only Muslims following Islam in the current context of the religion today will be saved. How ever if you translate al-islami properly, to Submission, which is what Islam means, then you get a different approach.

And whoever be looking for a way of life other than submission to God, it will never be accepted from him. And he, in the world to come, will be among the ones who are losers.

And then consider the following verses.

262 Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

569 Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in Allah and the last day and does good-- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.

So given this, i dont think you have to believe in Muhammad to be a Submitter to God, a Muslim, if you devote yourself to God and follow the basic principles then you are a Muslim in my opinion.

23 years.

I don't doubt the general framework of Muhammads history given in hadith and sira even though i reject hadith as an authority.

Hello.
Here is an excellent explanation.
http//www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/archive/index.php/t-2602.html

I've never understood why knowing what's going to happen means people don't have free will.

I roughly know what will happen in my household tomorrow, does that mean no one has free will and it's all predetermined? No.