OK Wakas , thanks for explanation .

peace all,

To answer the question, why not actually use the guidance given in The Quran itself?

All we need to do is run through the checklist and ask ourselves can my child comprehend/do the following?
http//www.mypercept.co.uk/articles/quran_on_salat.htm

Salam to all

I found something strange in that article about salat , they say the following
"It is possible to take the salat as fun and games (entertainment/amusement). "

The verse is not saying that we can take the salat as entertainment or amusement , the verse very clear , it's talking about the non believers who were mocking Muslims when they see them praying

5 58 When you call to the Contact Prayers (Salat), they mock and ridicule it. This is because they are people who do not understand.

Maybe they just say everything mentioned about salat in the Quran or what, I don't get it ?!

Salam confused

From what you wrote , the shake which happened to you was because of your friend . That's why it is important to select good, wise and religious friends because no doubt they have influence on us .
Your friend is very much mislead , don't have a single doubt about that , a one who leaves monotheism for the paganism of trinity is an idiot .
He is going to worship a man like us which is so absurd idea , noone of the prophets has ever did it .
With all those fabricated hadiths which blemish our prophet I never doubted that Islam is the right path because to base my judgment on history and hadith which I've never been there to make sure if it really happened or not would be very unfair to do it . Look at the pure concept of Islam and be very sure that you're on the right path.

who is anybody to say if you put this burden on yourself God will be more pleased with you? God will impose his burdens on everybody through life, and may have nothing to do with what we expect. But who are we to dispise the freedom and space that God has given us to go through our lives, lives which may on the other hands entail burdens of another kind that may require all our strength in order to assume them? and still we will thank Him for them, because if they come from Him undoubtedly that is our crown and our glory and what else could we ask for. But let us keep to what comes from Him, and let us be thankful for the burdens that He puts on us and for those that He doesn't put on us and let us fulfill tothe best of our ability his many times repeated injunctions to think, reflect, ponder, go deeply into things... and love Him by loving our destiny which He crafts for us.

Salam Huruf
That one thing I love about being God alone Muslim, the fact is if we go only by the Quran Islam will seem alot easier , simpler and with very few prohibitions , that's what it should be . I can't see Quran is putting any burden on us if we followed it alone and that what God wants from us . I never thought I will ever think of following Quran alone , I was always defending the sunna but I found myself in the end feel uneasy , something was bugging me , I keep on defending something I'm not much convinced of and that put me in a conflict . I pray to Allah to guide us all to His right path.
Peace to you.

Salam TAJ

You have a good point TAJ , that's why these days I'm studying all about Quran alone , they have things that makes alot of sense to me.
Thanks to you,
Salam.

somebody seems to think that the Quran is short in words and has missed something that should have been done, but that the Quran has failed to do, because it cannot be that the Quran couldn't care less whether the hair is covered or not, can it? No it cannot be, the Quran cannot be right and everybody wrong, can it?

No hijab is not an invention , and Quran hasn't failed to mention it , it is some people insist on ignoring the CLEAR meaning of some words just because it doesn't make sense to them how could they cover something Allah has created .

Salam alikum Huruf

It is not only the word khimar is in the Quran but also the word salat , zaka , haj . The word pigs , intoxications and gambling were associated with prohibition . The word khimar was associated with putting it to cover the bosom , no prohibition here .
You know huruf it is not a fight but we try to find away not to understand the Quran and follow it , I'm not imposing it on anybody . If you strongly believe that it is not obligation then inshaAllah it will be ok , those who think and know it is an obligation and still not wear it here I think comes the problem .

Peace.

The problem comes when people say it's obligatory based on the qur'an, when it clearly is not.

Salam Tay

It is obligatory just because of the word khimar . Khimar means the head cover. I don't know why people aren't convinced of hijab when this word khimar is there .

"Salat" is, in fact, a life long process. Sincere prayer is just the tip of the iceberg.

Nice words Tay , I agree with you .

Peace.

Wa alaikum Alsalam TAJ

Yes , I do . why? . It is not written in the Quran ? The way we pray is not written in the Quran but it reached us by tawator , same for covering the hair , one hadith says " No salat accepted from the woman without khimar " Khimar was known to them as a head cover .

Peace.

It also says they will remain in jahanam forever but it does not say always that they will be punished in it forever.

I like that , I hope you're right but I remember this verse ( several verses are has the same meaning )
Eternally they abide therein. The retribution is never commuted for them, nor are they reprieved. ( 2- 162 )

It says the punishment will not lessen .

We don't know what is hell or even heaven and we don't know what the judgement will be like and what the conditions in both are like. God can't expect us to know anything about hell, heaven or eternity or even judgement day. Either way we have no power to change or alter it. So whats the point?

Yes , you're right , we really don't know and we can't change anything either. God is fair and merciful that's all what we have to count on.

Salam Bigmo

I can't see any difference between strike them and beat them .

peace,

In terms of weighing up the evidence on both sides, the evidence is significantly in favour of NOT "beat". The evidence is for "leave/separate/part". There are articles on this and it has been discussed in detail on the forum.

As for "cut", the evidence again is in favour of NOT "cut off". There are articles on this and it has been discussed in detail on the forum.

Salam Wakas

Obviously everything was discussed and I'm the one who is late !

I agree that the evidence is significantly in favour of NOT "beat" but I feel that some Muslims are trying to find someway or another to avoid this word and find a solution for it , they wish to erase it so what they do is they just try to interpret it in their own nice way .

As for cutting the hands anyone who knows Arabic he will never understand it as mark the hands or anything else but to cut off the hands .
What evidence have you discussed ? The verse is saying to cut BOTH hands but in the sunna to cut one hand only . The verse never said how much stolen money for that punishment but the sunna determined it . If we go by the verse alone the hands of the thief should be cut even if he had stolen one dollar .

But you seem to understand both words as it is .

Peace everyone

O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they draw near / lengthen upon them their outergarments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

I have a Question
if God says "that they may be Known", which means the minimum is she has to be recognized; and if to be recognized is to be known by her "face"; then does that means that Nekab (covering the face) contradict God's Commandment "That they may be known"?

Peace

Salam belal

I understand this verse that they would be recognized as being chaste so the hypocrites wouldn't harass them , doesn't mean to be recognized by their faces .
The word concerning the face in this verse is the word " yodneena " which means draw near . Some scholars interpret this word as Muslim women has to draw part from her jilbab to her face and they chose the face because of the word " on them " which gives the implication that it's the face because they will be completely covered and no one would dare to approach them .

Jilbab is already known as long dress so to interpret it as they have to lengthen their outergarment in my opinion is absurd.

Salaam Fajr,
If you think they have a wrong interpretation then you should study the issue and post a refutation. God Willing if you make a clear case of what is the more accurate interpretation then most will accept it. This is an open debate forum so you do not have to accept peoples views and you are welcome to prove they are incorrect. I myself don't like arguing so I try not to discuss issues that I know nothing about. But keep learning from the Quran handshake

Salam aalmakto
Good point , thanks , handshake

just because you feel that these burdens have certain (magic) properties.

I'm not feeling anything magical , I'm just a submitter to GOD's' orders . You can't ignore the fact that the word khimar is in the quran , khimar was known to the Arabs as head cover , or maybe you don't like the word khimar because it's out of fashion and God wouldn't command us of such unfashionable dress !!

Fajr, perhaps if you read more carefully you would see that I did not mention "hijab" anywhere.

This is about "jilbab".

If you live in an environment where if you go out you are likely to be raped/kidnapped/assaulted etc then by all means, adopt protective guidelines. If not, then dont apply them. Simple.

Salam Wakas

I see , so it all depends on the environment . So as long as there is no danger I take it off and when there is danger I put it on , for how many hours that should be , some areas here are pretty dangerous and as soon as I pass it it's safe so I think I have to take the hijab off , noone should wonder because I'm very adaptive person !!

An important point comes to mind
Considering the harsh tone of the verses and the severity of punishment suggested, it is obvious that significant hostility was taking place.
The only times actual fighting/killing is given as a punishment in AQ is when the crime is equivalent in severity, so I think we can safely assume it is discussing things like assault, killing, rape, kidnapping etc.

This obviously suggests the jilbab/outergarment was being worn by other women, including non-believers. So we can say simply wearing a jilbab is not an "Islamic" or "Muslim" thing to do.

Salam Wakas
I didn't know that Quran is so limited to the time of prophet Mohamed !! We are living in such safe world noone would ever think to harm any Muslim woman , no rape , no sexual harassment , everything is just fine because it's the modern world time not the time of the hypocrites of Madinah !!

How could you be sure that non believers were wearing hijab , that would be extremely odd , doesn't sound like a rational thing to be done from non believers !

Salam Huruf

Yes , I agree with you , what is the point of hijab . Did wearing it make any difference to Muslims women and the world ? Corruption still there .
What is the point of praying ? did our prayers made any difference to many of us Muslims , did it change the world ? Corruption still there .

There is no point in seeing the advantages of anything because we don't want to see it .

No one is saying hijab is magic and salat is magic but that doesn't make us ignore the good side of it .

Fajr,
So you think that just because my hair is pretty, I should be covering it? How about lowering your gaze? There are a lot of people into many different things and find the slightest things attrative. Anything from skin tone, to eye color, eyebrow shape (be them bushy or thin), or maybe just the color that I may be wearing. Why is it my responsibility to cover up because YOU find something attractive, after the fact of following God's rules??? Huh.

God commanded us to be modest. NOT UGLY... NOT UNNATRACTIVE! Modesty does NOT mean ugly. Modesty does not mean unnattractive. Matter of fact, many people find modesty ATTRACTIVE and are grossly disguisted by people who show everything.

On top of that, an adornment? Why must smoething that comes naturally from me an adornment?

There are many women who like certain hair styles on men.... short hair, long hair, afros, dreadlocks! Should they be covering their hair too?

On top of that just because the Prophet Muhammad may have allowed his wife to do somthing does not mean that it is an obligation. Again, you represent a case where Muslims make no distinction between the personal life and hte spiritual life of the Prophet.

salaam

Salam ibelieveinitonly

I understand what you're saying but what are the modesty in your eyes according to the Quran ? Quran says Khimar and jilbab . Do you think it's ok if I wear sleeveless blouse , would it be still modest ? what you see modest other wouldn't see it so . Who is putting the rules of modesty ? It is the Quran in 2 words " Khimar and jlbab ".

Peace