Hi,

What should he do to become a muslim according to you?

Accept the Quran as divine, or at least give up the belief that his ancestor has any say in his life, because I think it is polytheistic.

You have to first define your understanding of dating in detail.
Many people have different interpretations in the West about what is considered dating.
There is certainly a minuscule minority of people that do not engage in sexual activities while they are dating.
In the West sex with a partner prior to marriage is a testing requirement. Kind of like test driving a car. You want to ensure that it handles well and feels good; all punts intended.

By "dating", I meant a mutual, romantic, but not necessarily permanent relationship between two people, often accompanied by sexual activity. Sch relations are reminiscent of the husband/wife dynamic (without necessarily cohabitation), but are not culturally considered marriage. By this, I exclude the exploitative form of dating that you may be referring to below."
I do not believe that the West definition of "dating" by any means fits with the Message of the Quran. If that is what you believe because of your perverse interpretation I would refrain completely from claiming that you are illustrating that the Quran is not contradictory to "dating".
Why not? I simply proposed that nikah can take place with no need for a culturally sanctioned "marriage", which other people would see as dating.

I have chosen to oppose you firmly despite what you meant by dating because the obvious majority indulges into promiscuity and because you failed to properly fine in your terms and through proper Quranic evidence the type of dating you think it supports.
I suppose I should have done that earlier. Well, I'm doing it now.

Dating leads to promiscuity, rape, over sexualized culture constantly competing for attention.
Marriage is there to support the structure of family. It is important for children to be in a good structured household.
Many children in the West lack that and we can see the results as we are speaking.

Or, perhaps, a patriarchal culture that exploits women to the point of using their naked bodies to sell burgers. I agree that it is important to respect your partner, but I believe it is also important to reject cultural scripts and Islamic innovations that serve no purpose. And while I see nothing wrong with having multiple partners (over the course of one's lifetime), rape has existed in nearly every society, and sexual objectification has existed in every culture where the primary purpose of women was seen to please men. It is not a byproduct of dating, it is a symptom of a toxic patriarchy.

Children lost in this generation! Disrespectful to their parents, adults and each other beyond what is acceptable, engaging in sexual activities way on early, egoistic, self-centered, materialistic, superficial and tossed into gender fluidity and sexual orientation confusion.

"The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.? -Socrates
"..a fearful multitude of untutored savages... with dogs at their heels and other evidence of dissolute habits... drive coal-carts, ride astride upon horses, drink, swear, fight, smoke, whistle, and care for nobody...the morals of children are tenfold worse than formerly." 7th Earl of Shaftesbury, 1842
"Whither are the manly vigor and athletic appearance of our forefathers flown? Can these be their legitimate heirs? Surely, no; a race of effeminate, self-admiring, emaciated fribbles can never have descended in a direct line from the heroes of Potiers and Agincourt..." Anonymous - 1771
"The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress." Peter the Hermit, 1274 A.D

Children were lost in every generation, brother

We are also told that the "way of Allah never changes".

Could you quote the ayat where you got that from?

I used to get them too, after my period of religious diaspora. Just stay calm and explain to yourself why you're wrong, instead of being horrified and burying them deep. The Quran encourages you to think and try to criticize it. The more you think, the more you believe. It'll stop eventually.

That is the price, I think, for rejecting organized religion. There's always going to be crazy ideas. I embrace them, laugh at them, and move on.

I believe you should do what you wish to. I don't think it is against the Quran to participate in christmas parties, because Christmas is a mainly cultural celebration, untied and disembodied from it's religious roots, despite what the Catholics would have you think. The Quran makes no prohibition against one's particular culture, and in fact encourages multiculturalism (4913).

As long as you're not going against the principles of God during such events (such as partaking in the drinking of alcohol), I see no problems with it. It is only a sign that you belong to that particular society. After all, you wouldn't split from a society that has disbelievers in it, would you?

But then again, that is only my opinion. God knows best.

@Jafar
It is not a matter of forbidding or enforcing, it is a matter of obeying the Quran. I simply intended to illustrate that dating is not contradictory to the Quran's commandments.

Even if there isn't, it is clear that there is no use to it. The Quran clearly refers to itself as a "guide", not a book of spells and incantations (as most SuShis treats it).

Well, thank you. Though I must say I had a change of opinion.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606121.msg378817#msg378817

2929 states the reasons why the people fo Lot were destroyed (rejecting God and his messenger, highway robbery, assault, and drunkenness)
All these crimes, with the exception of homosexuality, have been condemned directly by God.
The only proof we have that homosexuality is sin is from the story of Lot.
For some reason, God felt the need to clarify that highway robbery is a sin in the Quran, but not homosexuality. If homosexuality was a sin, it would then be below drunkenness and stealing.

So I am skeptical of the claim that homosexuality is forbidden. When heterosexuals are encouraged to try new positions ("approach your tilth as however ye may&quot, homosexuals are condemned to a life time of sexual repression? I doubt it.

Besides, I think God would have destroyed Sodom even if the angel rape was heterosexual angel rape.

when i look at substances and their use in say, the american society, i see people who use the substance as their identity, and who will do their best to try to use people of prominent power, authority, or stature, to try and make you agree with their statements and their ideology

to me, the problem does not come from the substance itself, but everything that surrounds it

today we see individuals who created a subculture around that substance, and just like any other groups, their interest is to influence others into adopting their ideology, moral codes, and values

they will not hesitate shaming an individual for refusing to integrate that group, or for refusing to smoke the joint
they will reject those that do not accept them, and will stick to their groups, trying to convince people one by one to join them and to accept them

we see this happen all the time people being cast out and ostracised because they refuse to do what the group tells them to do
the same is true for alcoholics, they will insult you, berate you, belittle you, mock you, simply because you refuse to get drunk or to drink regularly

now that cannabis is being legalizedin the USA, we start seeing a movement that calls for the legalization of everything else, under the guise that it would stop the cartels from operating

the same is said for cannabis, but no evidence has been provided for the claims

usually these people do not care about the truth, they just want to see their lifestyle being accepted, adopted, and made the new rule, they will use any argument they can to convince others to join them

i often see pot smokers try to use the few scientists and research who used to consume certain substance, in an attempt to make the casual consumption of such substance acceptable
what they never tell you is that these people spent a lifetime of learning and working in a difficult field, and that the drug had nothing to do with their success

the question of substances goes deeper than the localised effect it has on the individual

Irrelevant. That has to do with general human psychology, and has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
However, I'll state here that I am in favour of legalizing all drugs. Alcohol is the most harmful of them anyway.
http//www.cbc.ca/news/technology/alcohol-ranked-most-harmful-drug-1.919186
After all, it would stop both cartels from operating, and bankrupt drug gangs, and as a result will lead to a significant decrease in crime, estimated between 10% to 75%. It would also decrease the price of drugs, so addicts won't have to commit such crimes to collect funds to support their addiction. It would also reduce the number of deaths from overdoses and vein ruptures (due to regulation of product quality) and HIV (due to the availability of clean needles). Addicts would be able to act as functional members of society, since now they're not being dehumanized and marginalized. Teen use will decrease by 54% (compare cannabis use between American teens and Dutch teens, and there is less drug use between Dutch teens, even though cannabis is legal in the Netherlands).The good of legalization outweighs the harm. People will keep using drugs, no matter what. The difference is that they'll be getting them as prescriptions from doctors, instead of criminals.

I don't use any drugs, aside from cannabis for medical purposes, and Adderall, just for fun.

If we are warned against Alcohol - then why should it be legal or accessible? Why would you make beverages that you cannot consume?

Dude, do you not remember the Prohibition? It lead a rise to gangs, Al Capone, the Iron Law of Prohibition, and people dying from drinking tainted alcohol.

Just my two cents.

I believe that khamr would be translated as "alcoholic beverages". I reject translating it as "intoxicants" for the following reason

1. It makes sense to avoid alcohol because it is the most harmful of all drugs, all factors taken into consideration.
   http//www.cbc.ca/news/technology/alcohol-ranked-most-harmful-drug-1.919186

2. However, it would not be appropriate to translate it as "intoxicants", because that would mean that all intoxicating substances are haram. However, after orgasm, the brain produces endorphins; chemicals extremely similar to morphine. During sleep, it also produces DMT, a powerful hallucinogen. So I must ask, what difference does it make where it comes from? It's still intoxication, and it is (that is, sex and sleep) in no way, haram.

The link leads to a 404 error. It's broken.

I'm not much for apps, I used an old fashioned flip phone. But my computer is boss. Do you know of such an application, online or offline?

They could do nikah...except what about witnesses? Isn't nikah invalid without witnesses?
I don't know what the Quran says about this. |

The Quran prohibits intoxicants, not mind-altering drugs. The word khamr, according to my understanding (feel free to double check this if you want), is derived from a word meaning "to conceal". Therefore, anything which clouds the mind is haram.

From this I extracted the following if a drug impairs the performance of either the mind or the body, even temporarily, then it is haram. From this, CNS depressants (definitely) and probably hallucinogens are haram. Stimulants are not haram provided they do not permanently damage the mind or body.

Therefore, non-hallucinogenic sativa strains of cannabis are halal, but the rest is haram.

I use cannabis, albeit infrequently and out of medical necessity. I have psychotic episodes where I harm myself and people around me, and i use cannabis to prevent them. /

Allahu alam.

I feel that because we are such a small community of Muslims that we need to find ways to not only show we exist. But also organize better ways to communicate for example doing things like audio Podcasts online or something. A lot of us just communicate via facebook or forums like these. But don't you guys feel that we all should probably make speaking verbally. For example using platforms like google hangouts or skype.. make videos etc TOGETHER. I don't care how prideful we all are, every human WANTS to feel like they "belong".. So if anyone is interested in having a skype group, google hangouts chat let me know because WE ARE A COMMUNITY of people YOU are NOT alone.. It does not matter if you pray 5 times a day 3 times or day or NONE. We all are Monotheists to GOD ALONE and follow the QURAN ALONE so lets start an online community where we either communicate verbally or physically on video or on a radio station platform or something.. Message me if interested. We can do a Google Hangouts chat

Sure, I'd like a skype group. My skype is jupit3r3, add me )

you dont understand where they come from

in the west a divorce can cost the life of the man
house, car, money, children, all gone because the wife one day decided to divorce without giving a proper reason

divorce in the west is nothing like whats described in the quran btw

feminism has pitted women against men and it is doing great harm to society

This discussion is SO irrelevant. Also, no gender is better than the other. Allah swt created both man and woman from ONE soul. "O mankind, fear your Lord, who created you from one soul and created with it its mate" (41)

The Quran has the answer to this argument for you men and women are equal. Neither is better than the other. The only status amongst individuals is in piety.

This is my interpretation based on the fact that we are told that Iblis lied about the promise of immortality. Considering what happened next in Satan's favor I think the opposite was true, that we already were immortals and the fruit gave us mortality.

I must disagree. If they were already immortals, they wouldn't need the promise of immortality, would they?

I think the tree bore the fruit of Discord, given this ayah God then told them, "Get out of here all of you; you are each other's enemies." (20123)

Though I do agree with the tree being a warning rather than a test, because Allah already knew when He made Adam that he would live on Earth. It was pre-planned.
??Verily, I am going to place mankind generations after generations on earth.? They said ?Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, while we glorify You with praises and thanks and sanctify You.? God said ?I know that which you do not know.?? (Quran 230)