DISCLAIMER

For whoever so reads the document below, it is hereby assumed that by no means that as stated from previous, nor to current thread, for the purpose of academic veneer, rather so as to elaborate upon the subjects of areas in opposition as in this, will by default will absolve all liability or/and responsibility of the author in disputes, claims to the extent of, moral, monetary, contradictions, accusations and all other possibilities which may in detriment to the author.

Peace,

Dont take the above so seriously, I do hope you can, Im sure you will ;D So, glad that is out the way, allow me to proceed.... welcome

READ" is what I can advice you to not ignore, why did you think i included these 2 lines infront of that post ?
yeah

Let me put this simply, in REAL LIFE, there are PORN sites that has a disclaimer, it says OVER 18 ENTER, UNDER 18 EXIT. Do you expect underaged teens will not enter a site just because of the disclaimer? Of course not. Do the site owner care? Very suspect. When an educational company says their material should not be construed as actionable advice? Do they give direct actionable advice in reality? With regular impunity I tell you. So dont insult my intelligence and expect me to fall for that old chestnut as to your flimsy disclaimer. voodoo

I find it necessary unlike you , to share my intellect if its superior, because peer review debates increase knowledge. I find it necessary to intervene with my point of view because I have been reading the Qur'an

D

Its funny how you didnt bother to get the context
whatever

Well, there are other Quranic verses which addresses that .........and I don't have to belabour the point do I? ignore

Qur'an chapter 103
1.By Time,
2.Verily Man is in loss,
3.Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds,
and in the mutual teaching of Truth,
and of Patience and Constancy.

Ever wondered why Allah says you cant succeed without the criteria set in verse 3 ? You say you don't find it productive to show your superior intellectual ablity and prove others wrong, isnt that both unscientific and non-quranic when you see people saying the earth is flat and you dont find it productive to share truth (as verse 3 says) Huh??

Hypothesis of a Flat earth is a completely different issue to the rhetorical, dogmatic, religious belief in Hadith. laugh

Okay, case closed. End of. handshake

Peace,

Student of.... The most amusing thing about this thread is this..that according to Edip, you are an INGRATE hahaha. So funny that you guys love each other it seems.

Also, student of... I see you tend to fight hadith believers with your intellect but perhaps so just to calm down and not ignore this

5105. O you who believe, you should worry only about your own necks.

I dont find it productive to show my superior intellectual ability and prove others wrong. Though when i was a lot younger and wet behind the ears, I admit to having the urge. But the Quran provides me with solace. Thats all i need.

EDIP Dear student of Allah, I am not a code-19 "believer", since I am a witness, both intellectually and spiritually, to one of the greatest divine signs, that cannot be witnessed by bigots, ingrates, and hypocrites.

Student of...Post
Salam,

PLEASE DO NOT READ THE POST UNLESS YOU KNOW HOW TO TAKE A JOKE
Any moderator please delete this and warn me if this is too much to be allowed as a joke

I will go mathematic over the problem of rating, watch this

I am student of Allah. We use the numeric values of each english alphabet (example a=1, b=2 , z=26 ) in my username and divide them finally by 19 to obtain what Allah wants to reveal as his hidden rating for me

Student of Allah Total Dividing by 19
103 21 34 158 8.315789474

You see , I am rated at 8.3

May Allah forgive me if I am being offensive , and may my fellow members take this lightly and as a joke

May Allah guide us all
---- Student of Allah

Peace,

There's an interesting view of Quranists like what Basma Khalifa of submission.org have written; i paste here below

Satan is currently furious that his scheme has been exposed by our generation, and that the truth is unveiled will prevail by God's will and support. He has developed new approach, exclusively for our group of believers knowing that we are finally engaged in the learning process as qualified students for one Teacher and one easy, perfect, and straightforward source. He has established a Satanic perspective for 551-2 mainly to divert us from the clear truth and fill our hearts with confusion and uncertainty. The Satanic twist of 551-2 he introduces is that " The Most Gracious, Teacher of Quran" means God teaches a certain verse or command to each one of us differently. Based on that, not only different understandings/interpretations of a given teaching are quite possible but also are quite welcome!!! So, instead of upholding personal opinions and interpretations of the scholars through his old, "follow the leader" scheme, we are filling up our memories with the different understandings and interpretations of fellow believers through the new twist of 551-2! His ultimate goal has been always the same deviation far from the truth from God, confusion, and uncertainty that lead to regressed souls.

also Basma adds

"The Most Gracious- Teacher of Quran" and "it is we who explain it" are straightforward statements to ENSURE the source of the meanings and teachings. They are to DIRECT us to what is constructed in black and white by God and to KEEP us guarded against different opinions, different sources, and different understandings. God is our Teacher, because the text book is one and it is His.
There is a crucial difference between understanding the meaning of a verse, and offering a personal perspective or an application for that verse. Understanding a verse means the mental precess to comprehend what is expressed by God in that verse. A personal perspective is one's personal ideas that are combined and offered to create a meaningful relationship to that verse. Personal perspective of a verse doesn't affect in the least the understanding of the meaning delivered by God. Meanings expressed and delivered by God through His words and verses are not changeable and should not perceived differently. We grow in knowledge and grasp a new meaning when we pay attention to more specific values of God's words and overcome our personal limitations or, at times, blindness. This doesn't mean that God's verses have different understandings, it means something is newly revealed to us in the light of Quran that we have never known or paid attention to before (20114, 5101). The words of the Most Gracious establish the absolute, and concrete truth, in an accurate and efficient logic. God states that He authored His teachings without any ambiguity as the absolute truth and the only source of guidance. Hence He is the Clarifier and Teacher.

My issue with this view is this, Why then have submission.org, Rashad Khalifa and now Basma have to TEACH and PREACH their own views and interpretations of the Quran?? Why not just leave the people to read the Quran and let them learn, with God's guidance and leave them be?? Its absolute that there is a true meaning of the Quranic verses but its also true that we, will have different perceptions, views, and understanding of the verses. Basma says NO! Different views will not be tolerated. Arent they two different things? Our understanding of the verses and the true meaning of the verses?

Perhaps so that the hadeeth have been exposed as such, but i digress as a matter of principle, then if we were to follow the view of this type of Quranists, then this website, and submission.org should not exist in the first place.

Free-minds.org holds many different views and state them here, we discuss, elaborate, bounce ideas. Im not saying outright that the Quranists view of this is wrong....however lets elaborate this as such. Let me repeat and repaste what she wrote

"The Most Gracious- Teacher of Quran" and "it is we who explain it" are straightforward statements to ENSURE the source of the meanings and teachings. They are to DIRECT us to what is constructed in black and white by God and to KEEP us guarded against different opinions, different sources, and different understandings. God is our Teacher, because the text book is one and it is His.

And interestingly, when I sent Basma an email to ask about a verse, she was happy to reply and elaborate her understanding of it!! Hah. Now this is the most amusing part......allow me to paste

Muhammad Forbidden from Explaining the Quran
Do not move your tongue to hasten it.
It is we who will collect it into Quran.
Once we recite it, you shall follow such a Quran.
Then it is we who will explain it.

You (the command is expressed in plural tense for humanity in the Arabic text) shall all follow what is revealed to you from your Lord; do not follow any idols besides Him. Rarely do you take heed.
This too is a blessed scripture that we have revealed; you (the command is expressed in plural tense for humanity in the Arabic text) shall follow it and lead a righteous life, that you may attain mercy.

Now 1) Rashad Khalifa interpreted with his views, that Muhammad was forbidden to explain the Quran. 2) Basma khalifa negates this and claims the command is to ALL humanity.3) Out of reverence for her father,whom many believe is a messenger, does not SIMPLY edit their version of the translation 4) Why does she then have to EXPLAIN this verse since IT IS CLEAR FROM THE QURAN ITSELF, DIRECTLY FROM GOD?4) Isnt this hypocrisy and contradiction of the highest order or am i missing something here?

Different views of this, are welcome, until a good refutation of this appears.

Salam again,

thank you very much for the input, also translation that was brought up

1723 (Asad) for thy Sustainer has ordained that you shall worship none but Him. And do good unto parents. Should one of them, or both, attain to old age in thy care, never say "Ugh"

Much of my understanding have perhaps been skewed by this translation

Your Lord has decreed that you shall not worship except Him, and your parents shall be honored. As long as one or both of them live, you shall never say to them, "Uff"

In one translation, its depicts parents when they attain old age, in my old understanding, the verses says as long as they live, which is TOTALLY different. I wish I could understand Arabic.

However, what about this, verse does it indicate the necessity of forgiveness for the Parents' wrongdoing to their children? That despite everything we are encouraged to reconcile with our parents? What are the implications of this verse?

And We enjoined man to do good to his parents. His mother bore him with hardship, gave birth to him in hardship, and his bearing and weaning lasts thirty months. So that, when he has reached his independence, and he has reached forty years, he says My Lord, direct me to appreciate the blessings You have bestowed upon me and upon my parents, and to do good work that pleases You. And let my progeny be righteous. I have repented to You; I am of those who have submitted.

Salam evryone.....

I have a question regarding the parents, and taking into account, that we as Muslims, Submitter....are commanded to honour and respect our parents. We cannot even suggest annoyance to them. This is of course will be easily applied to an ideal situation, in normal circumstances. As I normally term it, the black and white situations as laid out in the QURAN.

Now, I say this, as a Police Officer, I have encountered Fathers who rape their daughters, Fathers physically torturing their children and so forth. To another subtle example, I was reading a story on hit internet whereby, a child was psychologically scarred as he/she was called a worm because he/she was skinny and was told he/she was not the parents child as they collected him/her from trash. (see www.ihs-ihs.com, under cruel parents topic).

Now wouldn't respecting and honouring your parents in this regard and in any and all circumstances without intelligent discretion, would further exacerbate psychological wounds which, could prove detrimental to one's own mental and spiritual wellbeing.

Now, this is by no means an affront to Quranic teachings, not at all, but in these Grey Area situations are clearly not the same as the ideal circumstances that was laid out in the Quran, so as to shed more light and hopefully discussion on this topic.