Thank you Pazuzu.
The proofs you have given are simply irrefutable. Waiting impatiently for your last post inshaa'Allah.

May Allah bless you

Again the problem.

The problem with many new Koranist who come from a Sunni/Shia background is that they still have many aspects of sectarian Islam in them. They don't understand that it takes some time before the Sunni/Shia influence fades from them. They talk in many ways just like a salafi does. They come from a background where kufr, haram and shirk are used generously and they assume that the Koran sees it that way when in reality it does not.

The problem with many Muslims (if you would have read the Quran, you'd understand that it is what Allah has called us) is that they prejudge with no knowledge whatsoever (ex you and Jafar). You are very wrong in what you have said anyway. It does not matter, we will both fully be judged and we will see who used to invent and lie.

Show me the verse... I've never seen "Khatamun Rasulin" (the closure of messengers) anywhere..

Having said that, I don't believe in those 'modern messengers' too..

Naah I don't believe anyone here is a 'devil'...

Better stop 'demonizing' those who are not inline with your opinion.. it's childish and stupid.. just like the sunnis... (or the catholics, jews and other sectarians for that matter)

Salam / Peace

Do not ever advise me, I am not your friend, I do not care what your opinions are on life, or on what is childish, stupid or not. I did not ask you if you believed that some individuals here were "devils" so please, next time, do abstain. I do not "demonize" those who are against my views, stop prejudging and again, I do not care about you nor you opinions.

Show me the verse... I've never seen "Khatamun Rasulin" (the closure of messengers) anywhere..

You seem very confident and pedant. I would advise you to read the Qu'ran a few times, you will too reach the conclusion that Khatamu Rasul is similar to Khatumu l'annbiyaa. I am not saying anymore than this, if Allah wanted you to know, he would have guided you to this, long time ago.

That it is the best translation is NOT my opinion, because I cannot judge as you well show because I do not speak Arabic, but of some knowledgeable people and even some who are severely opposed to Dr R. Khalifa

http//www.answering-christianity.com/why_do_i_use_rk.htm

http//www.underkastelse.org/perspektiv/budbarare/khalifa.html

Thank you for the post.

Sunnis are very knowledgeable individuals huh ? Anyway, I can tell you with all honesty that in my humble opinion, Rashad Khalifa's "translation" (for me it is another book, and not a translation) is the worst of all. He takes out, adds words, rips contexts out and so on.

It is your choice anyway.

It is a direct statement that ALLAH is the light of the heavens and the earth.

THEN it goes on to say "a parable/likeness/metaphor". So we know that ALLAH is literally the light.

There is no room to argue here, surely the truth is clear.

I might be slow, after all, I am not a messenger like you and I do not communicate with higher forces (Ashtar commands, remember? ) but please, do share your wisdom and explain how Allah being the light of the Heavens and the Earth relates to Pantheism ?

{35}
Allah is the light of the heavens and the earth; a likeness of His light is as a niche in which is a lamp, the lamp is in a glass, (and) the glass is as it were a brightly shining star, lit from a blessed olive-tree, neither eastern nor western, the oil whereof almost gives light though fire touch it not-- light upon light-- Allah guides to His light whom He pleases, and Allah sets forth parables for men, and Allah is Cognizant of all things.

Not a single one has been able to provide an answer to this verse. Tell me what it says, please do!

The verse says that Allah is the light of the Heavens and the earth, as you highlighted. I do not see where you are going. Perhaps you are going to enlighten me (on how this verse relates to Pantheism), O Wise IAMOP!

Satan follows his desire, where do I talk about this? Now, I took my site down for maintenance, but we can discuss this later. And where is the sufism?

Paradox Uncreated, I remember you from Facebook, where you tried to sell us the lie that Qu'ran supports pantheism and that everything is Allah and Allah is everything. Now, this is very similar to Sufism, isn't it? Modern Satanists (belief developed by LaVeyen) believe that they are their own Gods, which relates to your speech that everything is Allah and Allah is everything.

Perhaps you changed your view over time, or you are a skillful devil always seeking better ways to deceive or, simply, we all just read you wrong.

One of the three.

Why would you want to pray for someone who Allah purposely misguided? Do you doubt his wisdom? Have you not read the story of the prophet Noah ?

1142 And while it was running with them in waves like mountains, Noah called to his son, who was in an isolated place "My son, ride with us, and do not be with the rejecters!"
1143 He said "I will take refuge to the mountain which will protect me from the water." He said "There is no protection from the decree of God except for those He has granted mercy." And the wave came between them, so he was one of those who drowned.
1144 And it was said "O land, swallow your water, and O sky, cease." And the water was diminished, and the matter concluded. And it came to rest on the Judi, and it was said "Away with the wicked people."
1145 And Noah called on his Lord, and he said "My Lord, my son is from my family, and your promise is the truth, and you are the Wisest of all Judges."
1146 He said "O Noah, he is not from your family, he was of an unrighteous deed, so do not ask what you have no knowledge of. I advise you not to be of the ignorant."
1147 He said "My Lord, I seek refuge with You from asking You what I do not have knowledge of. And if You do not forgive me and have mercy on me, I will be of the losers!"

It is your choice.

I also pray for others as well, and most of the times, it's people who i don't know. God Created ALL people, they're His Creations, whether Bad of Good!

So because Allah created everyone, we should pray for their salvation? Thus it means, that you also pray for the forgiveness and guidance of Satan, right ? You are indeed, a proved devil.

Christians and Jews are monotheist. So I am not sure why the question about praying for them. The criteria the koran uses is faith in God and the hereafter. The Koran is non sectarian.

When you do know something, it is best if you abstain from spreading lies and things you are not sure of. Christians are polytheists who adhere to a fully corrupted Bible, the 'Nasara' spoken of in the Qu'ran are the Nazarites and NOT the Christians.

Peace bigmo and everyone else. Couldn't you say that if Catholics who pray to or through the saints are going to be ok if they do deeds of righteousness that then the sunnis, sufis and others who do deeds of righteousness will be successful in the hearafter.

Thanks

It goes against logic to say that a Catholic is going to Paradise if he/she does good deeds. It is similar to say that a Sunni will go to Paradise if he/she does good deeds. Catholics are big polytheists, people who have been purposely lost and blinded by Allah because of what their hands have done. It does not matter how much good things they do or did, they will abide in Hell forever.

First of all, as I said somewhere else, I do not consider Dr. R. Khalifa PhD infallible.
His translation of the Quran is just a translation, although the best one in English, bit still just a translation and not the Kuran itself. If I was fortunate enough to read it in Arabic, I would, but I do not know Arabic yet.
On the other hand I know that there are people who do read the original Arabic Kuran but that is not a guarantee that shayitan couldn't mislead them, since many of them created sects and religious deviations.

I consider many people messengers, not only Khalifa or the ones bro youssef4342 pointed here. There are messengers even here on this Forum.
Perhaps even you are one of them?

Salam.

Your excuse (that R.K was not infaillible, thus could make errors) is not really good. Messengers of God did make mistakes (for example, Muhammad disobeyed God at one point, etc.) but it is impossible, it goes against logic itself, for a messenger sent by Allah, the creator, to give false informations religiously. It is said that Allah would have destroyed Muhammad if he had uttered other teachings besides the Qu'ran, but, you say that it is correct for Khalifa to teach his disciples to follow one way of salaat (tawarats) although the Qu'ran already describes clearly how to do salaat. It is impossible for a messenger to teach his disciples that the Satanic pilgrimage to Mecca (and to Ka'aaba) is the true pilgrimage, even though we know for a fact that the city is Bakkah, and today's pilgrimage is a complete joke made from scrach by the devils. I can go on all day.

I consider many people messengers, not only Khalifa or the ones bro youssef4342 pointed here. There are messengers even here on this Forum.
Perhaps even you are one of them?

I am not a messenger of God, I am simply someone who Allah, your creator and mine, forgave and guided. Muhammad was the last prophet AND the last messenger, only the blind cannot understand that a nabi is also a rasul and vice versa. Yusuf has given a source of cons, scammers and devils as big as Khalifa, not of messengers.

Only the lost cannot see and understand.

Moreover, believing that RK, does not mean you have to believe that his translation is the best translation, the purpose of a messenger is to deliver the message!

I am getting more and more convinced that you are devil, purposely here to mislead, but you might also be a really lost man. Rashad Khalifa said himself that he wrote the correct and AUTHORIZED (by Allah) translation of Qu'ran (I consider it not Qu'ran). Saying that you believe in the messengership of Khalifa and not believing that his translation is the most correct and authorized is a huge contradiction.

Devils will always fail, you will be fully accounted on what you have done.

rotfl

People are so lost, subhannallah.
Keep spreading lies, you will be fully judged based on what you have done.

Thank you so much for these links!

I agree that they seem to be off-set of R. Khalifa, but interesting, although they repeat much the same. )

You are one of the most interesting individuals (in the wrong way) I have met on this site.

It is pitiful that you always contradict, may it be directly or indirectly.
At one moment, you say that you believe in Kamal Salibi's theory on Israel and Misr not being Egypt etc. (Pazuzu's posts), and at another, you attest that Rashad Khalifa is a messenger of God (thus believing that his translation of the Quran is the perfect English Quran) even though he (R.K) translated Misr into Egypt rotfl (and many more fallacies of course).

This site is amazing, amazing.

Am I the only here who believes that Paradox Uncreated follows really a mix of Satanism and Sufism ?

Sorry double posted by accident -[

The blessed land is ASIR, directly to the north of Yemen. It was outside the boundaries of Sulayman's kingdom. Asir is the most fertile and greenest spot of land in all of Arabia, and is known for its gold deposits. I will show you photos of the land of Asir, and you will not believe your eyes that there are such places in Arabia. You will think the photos are in Europe somewhere.

There's some greenery indeed!

http//photo.accuweather.com/photogallery/2009/5/500/2dc173491.jpg
http//www.waleg.com/travel/images/asir-mountains.jpg
http//ttc-ad4.com/Travel/images/stories/Asir/061518_t168.jpg

Iznagen,

The OP did not profess as a 'muslim', he said he's a Qur'aanist. I have spoken to him in the past, and I gather that he is a "Qur'aanist" in a sense that he believes in the wisdom of (most of the) Qur'aan. He is not a "Qur'aanist" muslim, he is someone who agrees with most of Qur'aanic teachings, hence a "Qur'aanist". Basically he takes the Qur'aan as a set of 'guidelines' but not divine revelation.

But please explain how you can label yourself as a "Quraanist" if you refuse to adhere to its fundamental teachings? Can I label myself a "Biblist" because it teaches that one should give money to the needy, and I also believe it ? Might as well label my self Senegalese because I visited the country.

Munzir, you should simply give yourself the name of the surah and verse of Qu'ran you accept, instead of calling yourself a "Quranist" hence making it seem like you adhere to the whole book. (For example SURAHFIVEVERSEFIFTYSIXist).

Anyway, I will put an end to this discussion, it is not an important matter.
Salam.

I am of the understanding that he is an atheist who agrees with (most) Qur'aanic teachings. There is nothing mind-boogling about that. Agreeing with the humanity-based teachings of the Qur'aan does not necessarily mean that you have to believe in God.

Anyway, your reaction would be similar to, say, Christians' responses if they ever encounter a Christian, or a Bible-follower, who does not believe that Jesus is the son of God, and the Bible is not infallible. But yeah, I suppose the OP's views and yours on 'Qur'aanism' are different. I won't fuss too much over it. What matters is if the OP really implements Qur'aanic teachings in order to develop the state of mankind, and not just tries to change others' views on the existence of God.

The Bible says that Jesus is the son of God (but comes contradicting this in other parts of course), thus there are groups, those who take this as literal, and others as metaphorical. This is in no way similar to Munzir's case. The Qu'ran is not "hesitant", contradictory nor "obscure" concerning the fact that there is indeed an intelligent supreme force (Allah) by what everything was initially created. Thus, one can in NO WAY say that He is a follower of the Qu'ran, (have you read him wrong when he said that he was a "Quraanist" ?) and disbelieve in this. It is the biggest contradictory belief on this earth.

But yeah, I suppose the OP's views and yours on 'Qur'aanism' are different.

You mean, Islam ?

Salam.

I consider myself an Atheist Quranist. I do not consider that book to be infallible as it is the work of Muhammed. I do not believe in many historical verses and ritualistic verses.

Am I really reading this ?

Sorry sir, but you simply cannot say that you follow the Qu'ran. Being an "atheist" and adhering to the true religion of Allah, by following his last revelation, is the biggest contradiction there is on this earth. I am sorry to say this, but your message was so ridiculous that it made me laugh. Any human being with an ounce of intelligence would reach the same conclusion as me after reading this message You are completely insane. I normally use "insane" as a term of endearment, but you see, I was at complete loss when trying to find another noun to describe your level of idiocy, ignorance and lack of logic.

There is something called 'secular koranism' going on in facebook!!

http//www.facebook.com/groups/254978361219568/

It might be of interest to you! It is not much for me though...

Peace

The most idiotic belief there is on earth, its adherents are all ignorant beginners. I felicitate you sir, for spreading devilish beliefs, keep it up!

When you agree that the universe is created by God too, you do not understand it as things materializing in an instant from your perspective, do you ? If you have no problem with physics as it explains the creation of stars, planets, solar systems, galaxies etc, you should have none with the evolution of man. Both evolved.
Ofcourse, man was created as man. Before that, it was just another monkey when it was not man.

You must have not understood my question very well. I did not ask you to compare evolution of the human being with the universe, but rather to explain using Quranic verses, that it (evolution of the human being) does not go in direct contradiction with the common understanding (again, I do not say that I do believe it).

It has been proven (using Qu'ran alone) that Jinns are no more than Human beings made of a blazing fire instead of black mud as the descents of Adam. Free flowing spirits is a complete invention with no Quranic bases. No, it is not the 'Jinns' causing your father's misfortune, it is his own actions (or perhaps they are tests from Allah) ; even if Jinns were spirits that can cause despair, do remember that none can happen if Allah does not let it be, thus, it is not correct to blame the Jinns.

I kindly ask followers of Rashad Khalifa to not answer my question.

Most Muslims (I speak of those who follow the Qu'ran alone) believe that laylatul l'Qadr, is a blessed night that occurs some unknown time every year.

971 We have sent it down in the Night of Decree.
972 And do you know what is the Night of Decree?
973 The Night of Decree is better than one thousand months.
974 The Malaikah and the Spirit tanazzalu (Descended) in it with the permission of their Lord to carry out every matter.
975 It is peaceful until the coming of dawn.

I want to ask the administrators of free-minds.org why did they translate tanazzalu (which is in past tense) to 'come down' (present tense) ? The following verses state that the Qu'ran has been sent down in that night and that the book is a mercy.

442 And the clarifying book.
443 We have sent it down in a blessed night. Surely, We were to warn.
444 In it, is a decree for every matter of wisdom.
445 A decree from Us. Surely, We were to send messengers.
446 A mercy from your Lord. He is the Hearer, the Knowledgeable.

Is this not the undeniable proof that Laylatu l'Qadr does not occur every year like the Hadiths declare ? If it was indeed the case, why would Allah use the past tense (they descended) when speaking of the Malaikah and the Spirit ? Why not ya'tanazzalu ?

Salam.