Hello,
Very interesting subject !
Where Is, or where could We see this manuscript from Sanaa ?
Peace for light & truth

Thank you for quoting this aayat, here it is.

2369
2369 Or did they not know their messenger? For they are in denial of him.

You can look at the pattern, when the aayat talks about Rasool then the HU is referring to Rasool.

1258
1258 And the brothers of Yousuf came and entered upon him, and he recognized them, but they did not recognize him.

You see how HU is referring to Yousuf as it is mentioned earlier in the same aayat?

727
727 O Children of Adam, do not let the Shaitaan afflict you as he evicted your parents from the paradise; he removes from them their garments to show them their bodies. He and his tribe see you from where you do not see them. We have made the devils as allies for those who do not believe.

Even in a long aayat HU is referring to the context of the aayat.

Following aayaats shows that HU is referring to non-humans.

7146
7146 I will turn away from My revelations those who are arrogant on the earth without right, and if they see every sign they do not believe in it, and if they see the path of guidance they do not take it as a path; and if they see the path of mischief, they take it as a path. That is because they have denied Our revelations and were heedless of them.

Again HU is referring to the context mentioned in the same aayat.

1614
1614 And He is the One who has commissioned the ocean, that you may eat from it a tender meat, and that you may extract from it pearls that you wear. And you see the ships flowing through it, so that you may seek from His bounty, and that you may be thankful.

Is it possible to drag Muhammed in and try to fit in place of HU in all the aayaats above? If not, then what is the problem in understanding 620? Where did Muhammed came in between in 620 when it clearly talks about AlKitaab?

620
620 Those to whom We have given the Book know it as they know their children. Those who lost their souls, they do not believe.

BTW, what is the use of knowing Muhammed as we know our sons? If we know AlKitaab as we know our sons, that will be really help to save us on each and every step we take in our life.

May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan

SLM,
& Thank you, Very much for your message.

I dont know, if its possible for you, to add, th? "phonetic",
For those, like me, who doesnot "know" !

It Would be gr??t, from you, in your "quest" of "goods",
But surely, i know, Thats not an easy "way" to do, and i Will comprehend, that is not possible for you, to do.

And from, m'y "Eyes"... Yes, we should "know", ours "children", WELL.

Thank you, for your Time & "d?votion".

Peace&Truth for All

I have mentioned in the article "Bisme";

The prerequisite to accurately and comprehensively perceive the perception and thought conveyed in Arabic text is to know and determine the relation of each and every word with its preceding and subsequent word while determining its own position and role played in the sentence/text. One cannot comprehensively perceive the thought/idea conveyed therein merely by knowing the vocabulary of language. Some say about Arabic that we learn Arabic to read Arabic.

SLM,

You "sounds" like an "expert",
So i try m'y chance, with you, Dear MZHR !

I try to know since, some Times, what does mean, in "arabic", " MU " ?

Could you help me !

Thank you, for your Time & Knowledge.

Peace&Truth for All

Shalom Aleikhem,

Need to discuss it. What does it state there ?

1. They know
2. They know it
3. They know him
4. They know her

The key difference between the approaches of mmkhan and Mazhar is "know it" vs "know him".

Without confusing me further, can both of you clarify your positions ? Why you chose it/him ?

The way I have always seen it is "know it", which ofcourse refers to the Book. Alternatively, you can look at the preceding ayaat and get another meaning. For example

619 Say "Which is the greatest testimony?" Say "God is witness between me and you, and He has inspired to me this Qur'an that I may warn you with it and whoever it reaches, that you are bearing witness that with God are other gods!" Say "I do not bear witness!" Say "He is only One god, and I am innocent of what you have set up!"

620 Those to whom We have given the Book know it as they know their children. Those who lost their souls, they do not believe.

So, another alternative approach would be to redirect "know it" to the facts stated in verse 19, the ones I highlighted in Red. The ones whom God gave the Book know this fact very well.

Peace
----------- Student of Allah

SLM,
"Dear" "student".

CouldWould you, "help" me !

I am lost ...

Who are those "translaters" ?
From which p?riods of "Times" ?
And why, is it, so difficult to "Translate" ? message "given" in ? "clear" "language' ?

I cant "understand", all those "differen?es" !

What's about 619 ...
Is it, from th? "Quran" ?
I dont understand .. Why, its writen ... This "Quran" !

Why, this and not the !?

And why in this "verse" or maybe in all th? "quran" (cause i am ? "beginner...)
Its writen; "say" ... ??

Who said, "say" ???

And Why ????

Peace&Truth for All

618 Say "What could most weightily bear witness to the truth?" Say "God is witness between me and you; and this Qur?an has been revealed unto me so that on the strength thereof I might warn you and all whom it may reach." Could you in truth bear witness that there are other deities side by side with God? Say "I bear no witness!" Say "He is the One God; and, behold, far be it from me to ascribe divinity, as, you do, to aught beside Him!"

619

They unto whom we have vouchsafed revelation aforetime know this as they know their own children; yet those who have squandered their own selves -it is they who refuse to believe.

Shakir

Those whom We have given the Book recognize him as they recognize their sons; (as for) those who have lost their souls, they will not believe.

Shabbir

Those who have been given the Scripture, recognize this fact as they recognize their sons (the fact of God's Transcendental Uniqueness and Oneness). Yet those who have squandered their own "Self" fail to accept such undeniable Truth.

Those who were recipients of Our Word -Jews and Christians- to whom We gave the Book -AL-Tawrah and AL-Injil (Torah and Bible) do recognize this Book -the Quran- as well as the Messenger to whom it is sent. They assert the existence of this reality as much as they are able to assert the identity of their sons, but those who are cheaply vicious to the perdition of their own souls refuse to recognize the truth.

Question What the Qur?an mean by ?They recognize as they recognize their sons??. Is (tying it to the previous verse) it the fact that Alalh is One and he has no partners? Or does it mean that the People of the Book recognize Muhammad (S) as a true Messenger? If the latter is meant than the question would arise as to why would they not accept him even though they recognize him as they would their sons?

The issue is the way Qur?an is translated. Although each translator tries to the best he/she can, sometimes the way they go about it, does not satisfy a curious mind.

SLM,

Very interesting, for me, to know and understand, what is, in your "post"..

Pleaz, could you help, me !

Are they;

"assad",
"shakir",
"shabbir",
"al Muntakhib",

"traducters", "translater" of th? "Quran" !?

If so, "at what Time" in th? "history" ?

Thank you, i am waiting for your "words".

Peace&Truth for All

And what do you think what this "Midyan" is? A location/city or Nation?

SLM,
What is MuDaYan !?
Love&Peace for TruTruth in th? WiseWorld

@Noon dhe plume

Where did I contradict the Quran?

{And he who had bought him from MSR said to his wife "Make his stay generous, perhaps he will benefit us or we may take him as a son." And it was thus that We established Joseph in the land and to teach him the interpretation of the narrations. And Allah has full control over his situation, but most of the people do not know}...

Where was Joseph raised, and by whom?

{And the wife of Far3oun said "A pleasure to my eye and yours, so do not kill him, perhaps he will benefit us or we may take him as a son;" while they did not perceive}...

Who rescued Moses from the stream where his mother had first placed him?

{And the one who believed (from among Far3oun's people) said "O my people, I fear for you the same fate as the Day of the Opponents. * Like the fate of the people of Noah, Aad, and Thamud, and those after them. And Allah does not wish any injustice for the servants. * And, O my people, I fear for you the Day of mutual blaming * A Day when you will turn around and flee, you will have no protector besides Allah, and whomever Allah sends astray, then there is none who can guide him * And Joseph had come to you before with proofs, but you remained in doubt regarding what he came to you with, until when he died, you said Allah will not send any messenger after him. It is such that Allah sends astray he who is a transgressor, a doubter}...

Weren't Moses and joseph living in the same place?

Did I ever claim that Joseph and Moses where from among Far3oun's own people? Or did I simply say that they lived among them, ever since the time when their great ancestor, Abraham, had migrated to the region?

You can disrupt the thread as much as you want, but the least you can do is not put words in my mouth.

---

@huruf

That article is stating that Far3oun's people, as well as Hagar, wife of Abraham before them, were MUSRI, not MISRI.

You have no idea just how close they have come to the truth. It's like they are hovering over the bullseye without hiting it.

Let's go on for now

---

3. Homeland of the Israelites

The events described in the Old Testament never took place in Palestine. They took place in the Surat Country of south west Arabia, the mountainous and coastal region stretching from Asir down to Yemen. Hence, Bani Israel were an ancient Arabian tribe, and the creed of Judaism (associated with the the city of Sana'a - mentioned in the Old Testament by its ancestral name of "Uzal&quot and the Nasraniyya (associated with the city of Najran) were born among them, and then spread to other lands of the ancient world carried on the wings of the Semitic migrations.

The Quran distinguishes very clearly between the concept of ?Bani Israel? and the concept of ?Judaism?. The two are not synonymous, as the deluded occupants of Palestine and the vast majority of Muslims think. They seem to think that every Jew is an Israelite, and the opposite is also true every Israelite is a Jew. The Quran denies this claim completely, and differentiates between the Children of Israel, who were the descendants of a single man named ?Israel? (I am not 100% sure he was Jacob himself, because the Quran mentions him by name), and Judaism.

Bani Israel were a tribe.

And the ancient tribes of Arabia were very often named after the father of the tribe.

Examples

• Bani Umayya = the descendants of a man named Umayya.
• Bani Hashim = the descendants of a man named Hashim.
• Bani Qurayzha = the descendants of a man named Qurayzha
• Bani Abbas = the descendants of a man named Abbas.
• Bani Israel = the descendants of a man named Israel.

{Those are the ones whom Allah has blessed from among the prophets from the progeny of Adam, and those We carried with Noah, and from the progeny of Abraham and Israel, and from whom We have guided and chosen. When the revelations of the Almighty are recited to them, they fall down prostrating, and in tears}?

So as you can see, this man ?Israel? came shortly after the time of Abraham, which places him very close to Jacob and Isaac (chronologically speaking). And this man, along with many of his first progeny, lived and died many centuries before Judaism even appeared.

{Or do you say that Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Clans were Jewish or Nazarenes?" Say "Are you more knowledgeable or is Allah?" Who is more wicked than the one who conceals a testimony with him from Allah? Allah is not unaware of what you do}...

Now this may sound strange to many of you, but the Quran clearly says that the entire succession of prophets, starting from Noah and down to Muhamad (P) were ONE lineage. The Quran was recounting to Muhamad the story of his ancestors, who lived in the same geographical region as he did. Nowhere does the Quran associate between Bani Israel and Palestine. This is a great lie that has infiltrated the beliefs of the Muslims, who have deserted Allah's book and followed the lies of human shayateen.

The age-old presence of Bani Israel as well as Judaism in Arabia is clearly attested to in the ancient Arabic poetry. In fact, Judaism was the creed of the Yemeni kings of the Himyaritic Dynasty, ever since it was first established in the year 120 BC.

The ancient Isralites established, somewhere between the 10th Century B.C and the 8th Cnetury B.C, a small kingdom in the Surat Country. The word ?Surat? means the ?High land? or ?the Heights?, which includes the elevated plateau of ?Najd? as well as the mountainous range stretching from the Hijaz to the north, all the way to the ?elbow? of Yemen in the south. This region is the greenest and most fertile strip of land in all of Arabia, and contains many volcanic peaks which were active in the distant past. The most famous of these peaks are ?Umm al-Qimam? , ?al-Qari3a?, and ?3akwah?. In fact these volcanoes played a major role in the destruction of the people of Lot (whom the Quran mentions were very near to the Mother of Towns) as well as the People of the Elephant.

The Surat peaks are at their highest in Yemen, where they soar to over 3,500 meters. These mountains, the likes of which are not found anywhere in Palestine, match the geography of events in both the Torah and the Quran, concerning prophets David and Solomon. The highest peak in Arabia is ?Jabal al Nabi Shuaib? (Mountain of the Prophet Shuaib) in Yemen, which is 3,660 meters high.

The valleys of the Asir region have been also been known to harbor breeding grounds for locusts, up until not too long ago (So when you think of the Old Testament stories speaking of ?locusts? and ?famine? which plagued the land of the "Msrim", you know where to look).

Check out this link

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUDz6bLKtU8

It is a video of a locust swarm captured in Saudi Arabia.

Also, you might want to read the following article

http//www.emirates247.com/news/region/saudis-warned-against-eating-locusts-2011-02-09-1.353796

In fact, Saudi Arabia has witnessed more locust swarms in the last 50 years than all Arab countries combined!

The land of Asir (a large pportion of which was previously a part of Yemen), is the region that sees the most rain in all of Arabia, both in winter and in summer. It is a land known for its wooden mountains, on which trees of many varieties grow Junipers, Cedars, Acacia, Bramble (Seeneen / Seena'a) and Cyprus. Its mountain slopes have been made into stepped terraces used for planting and agriculture for ages untold, and are among the most fertile regions in the middle east. Figs, olives, dates, grapes, and a wide variety of seeds are grown there until today. The honey of Asir and Yemen is greatly prized globally, and considered one of the finest in the world. It is a land known for its rich resources of iron, gold, and copper, which were much more plentiful in the distant past (the age of David and Solomon).

If you think Arabia is all desert, you better think again, as you check out the following link

http//irhal.com/ar/forum/travel-1172.html

In case you can't read Arabic, I'll tell you what those photos are (from top to bottom)

1 - The city of Al-Taef
2 - Cliffs near Abha
3 - Wooded mountains of Asir
4 - Wooded vales of Asir
5 - More Mountains
6 - Mountain roads of Asir
7 - No title
8 - No title

And in case you are wondering why Allah, in the Quran, swears to Muhamad by the fig, the olive, and the bramble tree, now you know.

There, amid the mountain peaks and valleys stretching between Najran and Sana?a, was once a extravagant domain established by Solomon, the son of David, many of whose relics are scattered around the county-side, begging to be excavated. Later on, the Himyaritic Jewish Kings of Yemen established their kingdom in that same region. In fact, we can safely say that the few Jews who reside in Yemen today are the last remnants of this religion in the land of its birthplace.

The land of the Surat was also a region of great economic and political importance in the distant past, because of its location at the hub of the trade routes. It was a land of trade mediation, caravan service, as well as the source of two substances that were prized more than gold itself the legendary incense and myrrh of Yemen. So rich was this land that the Greek and Roman geographers labeled it ?Arabia Felix?, meaning ?Happy? or ?Fortunate? Arabia.

The Read Sea coast, as I will show you later on, was a spot over which the Egyptians and the Assyrians had fought many great wars. In fact, some Egyptian kings launched campaigns against the coastal region, and even delved deep into the Heart of Arabia, sacking the city of Najran on several occasions. (I will show you later the many ancient Egyptian ruins and relics in Arabia, which the Saudis have always been reluctant to uncover). The Assyrian and Babylonian campaigns, which we were deceived into believeing targeted Palestine, in fact targeted Arabia. Archeological evidence has been unearthed in theTaima'a, which showed that the city had been the winter capital for several Assyrian kings, and was the launching point of several campaings directed at the Red Sea coast (the "Tahama" of Asir and Yemen), to discipline the rebelious Arabian tribes. The Romans did the same, later on, as I will show you.

In contracst, there is ZERO archeological evidence of such wars ever having taken place over Palestine. The land of ancient Palestine has been proven to be a peripheral region of little or no importance to the great powers of the time. It was not until around 200 BC when Palestine became a significant spot.

Where was the original Temple of Solomon, for which the Zionists have been looking for for the past 80 years? Refer to the thread entitled ?The Search for Muhamad has Ended? and you will find out where the original Ur-Salem was.

This blessed land, whose history has been shrouded on purpose; hidden from the consciousness of the world, was the theater of the events surrounding a small tribe from among the many tribes of Asir. And this tribe whose name was "Bani Israel", had an experience, somewhere in the heights of Asir and its westen slopes and vales, and left behind a record of it. And this record can be found today in the five books of what is called ? by convention ? the Torah (Though this is not necessarily the correct name). This record was, at some point, very accurate and genuine, and documenyed the trials and tribulations that this tribe went through, as it underwent a transition from a life of goat-herding to a sedentary life of agriculture and trade, until the hands of corruption and forgery started to mess with it, beginning from the time of the Babylonian Exile.

Bani Israel were not aliens to Arabia, nor did they flee to it from the Levant, as the twisted and corrupted history tells us. They were among its original inhabitants. The science of archeology, which the Muslims loathe and despise, is just starting to prove this fact. And this can be confirmed from all that we know about anthropology as well (the study of human migrations and settlements), which teaches us that humans, by nature, often flocked to places that provided them with opportunities for agriculture, game, or trade, until they are forced to leave by an enemy or invading force.

So where did Bani Israel live originally?

The corrupted history that we have been taught and that we continue to teach our children in the universities of the East and West, tells us that Bani Israel were not originally from Arabia, but had migrated or escaped to it from Palestine. And this, according to them, explains the presence of Jews later on, (at the time of Muhamad), and their communities which were established in the cities of Najran, Khaybar, Yathrib, and Taima?a - cities which were no less than veritable oasises in Western Arabia. They also claim that the presence of Jews as far south as Yemen was because small bands of them had migrated to there as merchants during the time of Solomon! (They still insist that Solomon's kingdom was in Palestine, and that the trade relations between ancient Israel and Sheba dicatetd that many Jewish merchants move to Yemen!). And they have been propagating this crap for centuries, cloacked behind the statement of ?God Said So??. until modern archaelogy began to expose their lies.

If Bani Israel had originally migrated to Arabia as refugees, this would mean that in order for them to be established in the regions of fertility and water, in a peninsula whose area is 80% desert and dry land, they would have had to wage continuous wars against its original inhabitants and kick them out of such oasises. And this in fact never happened, nor is it mentioned anywhere in the history of the region.

Ban Israel lived in Yemen, Najran, Tayma?a, Khaybar, and other such oasises, in peace with the other inhabitants, and relied on agriculture and trade to make their living, after their ancestors, Jacob and Isaac were transformed from a life of goat herding, to a more sedentary life, thanks to the effort of Joseph who established them along the trade routes (as we saw in the ?Pharoah? thread). If the Isralites were refugees from Palestine, as our false history claims, they would never have been able to achieve all this success in a land whose inhabitants (the Arabs) were known for their love of raids, wars, and looting, and where water sources were more valuable than gold. The Arabs used to kill each other over such oasises...Do you think they would let a tribe of refugees, migrating from Palestine, simply stroll into the most fertile regions of their land, and settle there without even lifting a finger?

Please think and reflect on this...

Place like Najran, Tayma?a, Yathrib and Khaybar were among the most fertile oasies of Arabia. And the ancient Arabs were never known to simply relinquish such places to others. If Bani Israel came as refugees to Arabia from elsewhere, they would never have been able to settle in such places. They would have found nothing but harsh wilderness and deserts awaiting them, and they would have very likely been the target for raiders and looters. And even if we assumed that the Arabs accepted their presence as refugees ? for a while ? it is completely out of the question that they would have relinquished their scarce fertile regions to a bunch of foreigners.

What we are proposing here is something radically different than what we have always perceived as the unquestionable truth

Bani Israel were not refugees or migrates to Arabia. THEY WERE ALWAYS THERE FROM THE START. They originated there. And, throughout the years, they benefited from solid leadership and unshakable beliefs and principles, which made them very strong, and hence feared and respected by most other tribes. And in an environment as lawless and as harsh as Arabia, where no more than 20% of the total area is habitable, one must have been very strong indeed to maintain his wealth and his land, and to protect it from raiders and looters. So how did Bani Israel eventually achieve all the greatness that they had, if they were originally refugees? Was it through fighting wars with the Arabs to kick them out of their lands?

And the claim that the Israelites were spawned in Egypt, them moved to Palestine, then migrated to Yemen, is nothing but a ridiculous fantasy, whose aim was to hide the true identity of Bani Israel as no more than an Arabian tribe - albeit a special one - and to establish a racist creed claiming that the Israelites were a pure race, and superior to all others.

The time has come for us to change our perceptions and accept this truth, or we will be forever looking at our history through the eyes of others?the eyes of those corruptors and forgers who have turned our past upside down, dictating to us who we are and where we came from.

BANI ISRAEL WERE THE ANCESTORS OF MUHAMAD. And all the stories of the previous peoples and their prophets, related to us in the Quran, took place in Arabia, and nowhere else. And those LIARS who scattered the prophets to the lands of Egypt, Iraq and the Levant, and divided between father and son and between brother and brother, claiming that Isaac was the "father of the Israelites" and settled in Palestine, while Ismael was the father of the "savages" and settled in Arabia, should be all hanged by the you-know-what for their falsehoods, racism, and crimes against history and humanity.

Until we accept this truth, we will forever be lost in the desert of Jewish delusion and Zionist lies.

All the Semitic migration took place FROM Arabia, not TO Arabia. We have been looking at the picture upside down. It is time we turned it around and set it right. The ancient Arabian tribes migrated from Arabia, and moved northwards toward the Levant, Syria, and Mesopotamia. And the Israelites were no more than one of those many migrating tribes. Migration FROM Arabia is the correct direction of all ancient displacements of people, not the other way around. And this truth, which was often reiterated by the ancient Greek and Roman gegraphers and explorers, and very often ignored, has now been confirmed by modern anthropology.

And what was the first thing that migrating tribes or peoples did when they moved to new regions?
Answer They took with them the names of their original homeland - its towns, rivers, mountains, and valleys, and gave them to their new homelands. This process was known to the ancient Arabs as ?tayammun? (the word is derived from YUMN , which means to bring fortune or optimism).

We will look next at this phenomenon of tayammun, where I will show you how many of the names of cities, mountains, and valleys in Syria, Jordan and Palestine were in fact Tayammuni names. The most prominent of these names was a city resting on a knoll in ancient Palestine, whose name was mentioned in the Psalms as "The Daughter of Jerusalem", and "The Daughter of Zion".

So, where was the original or "parent" of such places?

I think by now, you know where.

---

To Be Continued...

SLM,
FANTASTIK .. again
About what it could be understood from your mind by word's PZZ !
Thank you Very much, for that .
What could it means !!
That th? "jew" Were th? "Arabians" ?
I Would like to know ... About History and GO closer to "Truth" ... But !!!
TakesTime ... To be "certain" ... N?Code(s).
I hav? many questions to myShelf ... And for Others to answer with "peace&truth",
Could it be, nowadays...
Maybe i am wrong !!!
Who gav? th? name "arabia" ?
Who Were those geographers from GreekRoman ??
What could tell Us, th? land of "arabia" with archeo.. Logy&
What about SaLoMo(n) & She(i)B(v)a !??
Why "one" wants better .. Only th? truTruth could helpsUs .. Do you know
Only from one book only ... !?!
ManHand'sMind did nothing ??? Who did
Sorry
Love&Peace above (all) ours heads for Truth ... Could you (we)

The translations of above verse is my own..

And here's "another translations which similar to mine".
http//www.free-minds.org/quran/PM/36
366 To warn a people whose fathers were not warned, for they are unaware.

And how bout Muhammad encircling the house (still) full of idols?
And the early muslims prostrating to the house (still) full of idols?
And God protecting a house full of idols from destruction by Abrahah?
And Muhammad wed his own daughter to his own cousin?

Is there any verse in the Quran which assert that Muhammad is a Quraish Tribe?

Salam / Peace

SLM,
Who is "Abrahah" ?
Is there ? misspelling !?
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads"

Muhammad Ibn Abdullah
The Praised One From Servant Of God

This is the 'full / official name' which Muhammad often used on his letter.
Reference
http//muslim-canada.org/charter1.html
http//www.touregypt.net/featurestories/catherines5-14.htm

What really 'unique' is the name of Muhammad's Father in full.. (When the 'official' history is correct and not some Arabs / Quraish fabrications)

Abdullah Ibn Abdul Muthalib

SLM,
Very interesting.
Could you help me,
I Would like to know, if there is ? "meaning" for "QURAISH" ?
Thank you,
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads"

Additional information

I also just found out there's another "Pagan God's Name" in Muhammad's ancestry..
TA'LAB = Moon God...
http//www.pantheon.org/articles/t/talab.html

And Abd' Al-Muthalib which means Servant of The Great Mu-Thalab..
Could this "Thalab" is actually TA'LAB the Arab's Moon God?

Salam / Peace

SLM,
Could you "help" me,..
I try to know what is th? meaning of "mu" in "arabic" ?
Thank you.
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads"

Peace everyone peace

Hebrew and Aramaic are both sister language which have been historically both used by the Hebrew People.
Some of the Bible books were written in Aramaic, and there are some refrences to aramaic words in the Torah itself (e.g Laban, uncle of Jacob (who was from Paddan-aram) called the pile of stones Yegar- sahadutha (Aramaic) but Jacob called it Gal-Ed (Hebrew for "heap of witness&quot.

Also, the Quran Cites a Language used which is the tongue of David and Jesus. If you read David's Psalms, you will see that they are in Hebrew. Also, Jesus must have known some Aramaic, as some biblical books are again written in Aramaic, and also because it can be said that it was the lingua franca during that time period.

"Condemned are those who disbelieved among the Children of Israel, by the tongue of David and Jesus, the son of Mary. This is because they disobeyed and transgressed.(Quran 57

SLM,
Very Happy, "logo" & "words",
Full of "color" & "Hope",
Thank you, Sir !
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads"

Salam, Peace,

As you can see in this link
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601944.msg270867#msg270867

I came to a similar conclusion as yours.

reagrds

SLM & Sorry ...
What ?
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads"

Originated in the Levant?

Well allow me to say Sorry Jafar, but you are dead wrong.

Arabia is the source of all Semitic migrations. The so-called Phoenicians, originally came from the coast of the Red Sea, in South West Arabia, where they were sea-faring people. They migrated North to the Levant, and became sea-faring peoples of the Meditteranean.

Why don't you look at this "Phoenician" alphabet of yours, and pay close attention to the letters

aleph - ba- ja - da- ha- wa - z.....notice anything familiar??

It is the exact same as the Arabic alphabet, with the exception of 6 missing letters. You expect me to believe that these people magically "appeared" in the Levant and brought with them the SAME alphabet that was spoken as far south as Yemen?

Of course, the arrogant Lebanese, who think that God created them and then broke the mold, are always boasting about how their "ancestors", the Phoenicians, invented the alphabet. But the truth is, they invented NOTHING. The people of Sheba and Thamud had their own written alphabet since before 1500 BC.

You can check for yourself, a sample of a Sheban inscription unearthed near Hadaramawt (I wonder why "Hazaramaveth" is mentioned BY NAME in the Torah hmm). This carved block sits in the Louvre Museum, and is alone enough to expose Jafar's false beliefs.

SLM,
Is "sheba(n)", have some thing to do with th? Queen of Sheba & Salomon !?
And Yes, when "arabia" Will "open" to Archeologia .. It Will Be GR??T.
"some" says that mont "Sina?" is in "arabia" !!
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads"

There is some info (however not nearly as extensive) in Reza Aslan's "Cosmic War" (or "Beyond Fundamentalism" in paperback. A good read...is available on Kindle for fellow kindle users (I love my kindle by the way)

SLM,
Who is Reza ASLAN !?
What kind of "info" ...
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads"

The 'hebrew' alphabet IS a Phoenician alphabet..

Phoenician Alphabet.
http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/24/Phoenician_alphabet.svg/200px-Phoenician_alphabet.svg.png

And this is a photo of a stone in Los Lunas, New Mexico, USA which contains an inscription using the-so called "Paleo-Hebrew" alphabet which is actually "Phoenician" alphabet.

http//www.econ.ohio-state.edu/jhm/arch/loslunas.jpg

What does it say? Well it's actually the "Ten Commandments"...

It shows how the collaboration of Phoenician's advanced seafaring techniques and 'those who has been given the ten commandment' (you can say it's "Israelites&quot managed to travel far and wide across the atlantic ocean.

SLM,
Very Interesting,
Where could i learn from this, in new Mexico !?
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads"

3. The Jealous Wife

Going back to the Quran, we find that Abraham and Lot left their original homeland and made their way towards a land that Allah described as ?blessed to the worlds?. And in that land, somewhere, was a secluded and previously UNSETTLED (uncultivated) vale where Abraham SETTLED his progeny.

{Our Rabb, I have resided part of my progeny in an uncultivated valley near your Restricted Sanctuary. My Rabb, so that they may uphold the salat. So let the hearts of the people incline towards them and give provisions to them of the fruits that they may give thanks}...

Had those who claim to be the followers of Muhamad?s message paid close attention to the word ?settled? (askantu) which appears in the above verse, they would have abandoned the Jewish myth that they have embraced for centuries, which tells them that Abraham ?expelled? his ?wench? Hagar and her infant son. The truth is that the word ?settled? used in the FM translation does not even come close to doing justice to the original Arabic word which appears in the text ?askantu? . Abraham is saying ?My Rabb, I have askantu from my progeny in an uncultivated valley?. The word is derived from the root ?sakan? which carries the meaning of peaceful habitation.

Does this sound to you like someone who leaves his infant son and his mother all alone in a desert land so they can die of thirst, on the whims of a jealous wife? Or does it sound more like he migrated and settled WITH THEM, and provided them with all the means of a peaceful habitation?

While you ponder over this issue, I will move on and tell you where the Muslims get their beliefs from

Now Sarai, Abram's wife, had borne him no And she had an Egyptian maidservant whose name was Hagar. 2 So Sarai said to Abram, "See now, the LORD has restrained me from bearing Please, go in to my maid; perhaps I shall obtain children by her." And Abram heeded the voice of Sarai. 3 Then Sarai, Abram's wife, took Hagar her maid, the Egyptian, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan. 4 So he went in to Hagar, and she conceived. And when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress became despised in her eyes. 5 Then Sarai said to Abram, "My wrong upon you! I gave my maid into your embrace; and when she saw that she had conceived, I became despised in her eyes. The LORD judge between you and me." 6 So Abram said to Sarai, "Indeed your maid in your hand; do to her as you please." And when Sarai dealt harshly with her, she fled from her presence. 7 Now the Angel of the LORD found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, by the spring on the way to Shur. 8 And He said, "Hagar, Sarai's maid, where have you come from, and where are you going?" She said, "I am fleeing from the presence of my mistress Sarai." 9 The Angel of the LORD said to her, "Return to your mistress, and submit yourself under her hand." 10 Then the Angel of the LORD said to her, "I will multiply your descendants exceedingly, so that they shall not be counted for multitude." 11 And the Angel of the LORD said to her "Behold, you with child, And you shall bear a son. You shall call his name Ishmael, Because the LORD has heard your affliction. 12 He shall be a wild man; His hand against every man, And every man's hand against him. And he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren." (Genesis 16 1-12)

This is how the Jews distort Abraham?s personality, by picturing him as a weak old man, who is easily swayed by his wife?s emotion, and by picturing his son Ismael as the ?savage son?, who is the descendent of ?savages? (the Arabs, sons of the ?servant wench?). And what is even stranger is the translation of ?Msri? to ?Egyptian?, concerning Hagar?s nationality. So the Arabs, technically, are a bastard hybrid race of half Mesopotamian half Egyptian....

Let?s read on a bit more to see what other half-truths we find in the Torah

She also said, "Who would have said to Abraham that Sarah would nurse children? For I have borne a son in his old age." 8 So the child grew and was weaned. And Abraham made a great feast on the same day that Isaac was weaned. 9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, whom she had borne to Abraham, scoffing. 10 Therefore she said to Abraham, "Cast out this bondwoman and her son; for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, with Isaac." 11 And the matter was very displeasing in Abraham's sight because of his son. 12 But God said to Abraham, "Do not let it be displeasing in your sight because of the lad or because of your bondwoman. Whatever Sarah has said to you, listen to her voice; for in Isaac your seed shall be called. 13 "Yet I will also make a nation of the son of the bondwoman, because he your seed." 14 So Abraham rose early in the morning, and took bread and a skin of water; and putting on her shoulder, he gave and the boy to Hagar, and sent her away. Then she departed and wandered in the Wilderness of Beersheba. 15 And the water in the skin was used up, and she placed the boy under one of the shrubs. 16 Then she went and sat down across from at a distance of about a bowshot; for she said to herself, "Let me not see the death of the boy." So she sat opposite and lifted her voice and wept. 17 And God heard the voice of the lad. Then the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said to her, "What ails you, Hagar? Fear not, for God has heard the voice of the lad where he 18 "Arise, lift up the lad and hold him with your hand, for I will make him a great nation." 19 Then God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water. And she went and filled the skin with water, and gave the lad a drink. (Genesis 21 7-19)

And so here we see the source of this delusion the Muslims believe in, which claims that Abraham ?kicked out? his ?Egyptian servant wench? Hagar, and left her to become lost in the wilderness with her infant son. Of course, the Quran does not mention Sarah, nor Hagar, nor a ?miraculous spring? by the name of Zamzam. Although we concur that is IS possible Abraham had two wives (the Quranic verses are not clear on this issue) ? to say that the second was a ?servant wench? is marketing of racist Jewish allegations, which insists on attributing ?purity? to the Israelites, while picturing the Arabs as bastard half-breeds, descendants of a savage race. And the Muslims are not even aware where their beliefs have come from (they insist that their creed has not been contaminated by Jewish corruption?Oh No! Allah forbid it! They are above such allegations!).

The Quran says that Abraham migrated WITH his wife, to the blessed land. His first child was born in that land. He did not make the initial trip with them. Abraham provided his family with the means of peaceful habitation. He did NOT expulse anyone. There is a HUGE difference between the words ?askan? and ?tarada? . But because of their blindness, they cannot see it.

The Torah also tells us that he left Hagar and her infant son to wander alone in the wilderness of a place called "Beersheba", which they believe is in Palestine. And this of course is the natural result of hijacking the geography of the prophets of Allah, and projecting it onto the Levant. And soon, I will show you where this Beersheba was.

Of course, the Muslims decided to change the details of the story a little bit, to make it fit more with their culture. They claimed that it was ALLAH who commanded Abraham to travel 1200 kilometers from the Levant, drop his ?wench? and infant son in a deserted valley in the middle of the Hijaz region, and travel back to the Jerusalem (al-Quds) which didn?t even exist (Applause and drums, please!)

Do you believe this story ladies and gentlemen? Would Allah command such a thing? Of course, they must have found a problem with the Jewish version of the story, which speaks of Sarah?s jealousy. They must have said to themselves ?Well if he wanted to keep Hagar away from Sarah, he could have moved her to some other place in the Levant, not far from his home. So why go all the way to the heart of Arabia, over 1200 kilometers away ? a trip that would take several weeks? It must be because ALLAH SAID SO!!?.

This is the tyrannical expression that shackles the intellectual mind, and prevents anyone from questioning the story.

And I?m telling you now with 100% confidence Abraham was NOT in the Levant, and he did not send his second wife ? assuming he had 2 wives in the first place - and infant child far, and no spring was ?miraculously? dug by the wings of angels (as the Muslims claim); but in all probability it was Abraham HIMSELF who dug it (I will soon show you how the Torah contradicts itself in this matter). Furthermore, Abraham travelled with them and STAYED with them, providing them with the means of a peaceful habitation ? hence the meaning of ?askantu? - in their new land of migration, as will soon be made clear. And the location of the valley (the Bayt) was not far at all from his tents.

Now, going back to the previous passage in (Genesis 21), we recall the following

So Abraham rose early in the morning, and took bread and a skin of water; and putting on her shoulder, he gave and the boy to Hagar, and sent her away. Then she departed and wandered in the Wilderness of Beersheba. 15 And the water in the skin was used up, and she placed the boy under one of the shrubs.

Of course the Muslims, again, changed the details a bit, and replaced the ?loaf of bread and water skin? with ?knapsack of dates and water skin?, to make the story fit better with their culture (Apparently, they believe dates are "Holy&quot. But what about the glaring geographical absurdness itself? How did they go about solving that?

Let?s contemplate the story a little bit

It has become a part of the Muslim creed that Abraham expulsed Hagar and her son from the Levant to the heart of Arabia. And what did Abraham equip Hagar with for her trip, which was 1200 kilometers long? A single water skin and a knapsack of dates.... And so Hagar became lost in the wilderness, the distance required to consume a single water skin, and lo and behold! She found herself in one of Tahama?s valleys, in the south of Hijaz!!

And now I ask you this Assuming, for the sake of argument, that Hagar made the trip all by herself; how far can a woman travel, while carrying her infant son in her arms, and equipped with a single water skin? I will say anywhere between 5 and 20 kilometers. So how far was the distance between Abraham?s tents and the valley (location of the Bayt)?

Is it 5-20 kilometers as logic dictates, or 1200 kilometers as the diseased traditions of the Muslims tell us?

In fact, this very question was asked by the ancient Muslim historians, who found themselves giving various outrageous explanations for it. Some claimed that Abraham travelled with Hagar from the Levant, left her near "Mecca" with the waterskin and dates, then went back to the Levant. Or, if you want something even better, listen to what Al-Suhaily says in his book ?Al-Rawd al Anf? (page 55)

.

Here is the exposition of Al-Suhaily is saying (with our comments in brackets)

And the reason for transporting Hagar and her son Ismael from the Levant and dropping them of in Mecca (as if ?Mecca? even existed back then), was that a heated argument had taken place between Sarah, Abraham?s cousin (they made him marry his cousin in order to maintain Israelite ?purity? without being aware of it) and Hagar, and so Abraham was ordered (note how he leaves the source of this order unknown) to carry her on the back of the Pegasus (al-Buraq) to the location of the Bayt, then return from whence he came (i.e. to Palestine).

These people are completely insane. There is no other explanation how a story with that many holes in it can be adopted as the truth.

What we will say here is this

This Pegasus (the winged horse), which pops up every now and then in the Islamic books of tradition, is NOT a means of transportation, but a means of FORGERY and an insult to the intelligence of the average mind; and its goal is to patch up a glaring geographical puzzle, to seperate between Abraham and his family, and to cover up a scandalous traditional belief that no sane mind can accept.

But under the cloak of ?Allah Said So?, anything is possible.

The sane and logical conclusion tells us the following Abraham left his original homeland, the land of his fathers which was somewhere in Arabia (and I will show you exactly where before this thread ends), with his wife and nephew, and migrated to the ?blessed land? of Asir, where he was bestowed, by Allah, two sons at an advanced age Ismael and Isaac. He set up his tents no more than 20 kilometers from the Bayt. He was accompanied by Lot at first, but then they parted ways shortly after they reached their new home. It is possible that Abraham had two wives. But the second was also HIS WIFE, not his servant wench. And she was NOT Egyptian, as we will soon see.

Open your eyes please, and read, from the Quran, the truth that kills their belief. Ismael and Isaac were in the SAME LOCATION

{And Abraham said "My Rabb, make this a peaceful land, and keep me and my sons away from serving idols * "My Rabb, they have misguided many from among the people. So, whoever follows me, then he is of me, and whoever disobeys me, then You are Forgiving, Merciful." * Our Rabb, I have resided part of my progeny in an uncultivated valley near your Restricted Sanctuary. My Rabb, so that they may uphold the salat. So let the hearts of the people incline towards them and give provisions to them of the fruits that they may give thanks * "Our Rabb, you know what we hide and what we declare. And nothing at all is hidden from Allah on the Earth or in the heavens * Praise be to Allah who has granted me at my old age Ishmael and Isaac; my Rabb is Hearer of the prayer}...

The criminal LIARS wanted to seperate Isaac the Pure (in Palestine), from Ismael the Bastard (in Arabia). And the misguided Muslims, who have made the Quran of no account, have been applauding and playing the drums for this forgery for centuries untold. All they know how to do is vehemently retaliate, like barbarians, when some Christian priest in the West threatens to burn a copy of the Quran. The truth is they are more proptective of the paper the Quran is printed on, than what it actually says.

They expect Muhamad's intercession on Judgement Day.. But the truth is Muhamad will do no such thing. On Judgement Day, he will complain to Allah and say {My Rabb, my people have deserted this Qur'an}

And he will disown them all.

http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/Buraq.jpg

The Pegasus solves the geographical discrepency.

And since the Quran tells us clearly that Allah rescued both Abraham AND Lot to this blessed land, we should take this opportunity to remind you all, briefly for now ? but in more detail later on, when we study the volcanoes of Arabia ? of a glaring truth concerning the location of Lot?s town. The Quranic verses make it very clear that this town was not far at all from the location where Muhamad preached the Quran

{And Lot was one of the messengers * When We saved him and all his family * Except an old woman who remained * Then, We destroyed the rest * And you pass by their ruins in the morning * And in the night. Do you not comprehend?}...

This means that Muhamad and his people passed by it day and night as they went about their business. This means it could not have been more than a 24 hour trip from the Mother of Towns. And the last phrase in the above verses says {Do you not comprehend?} which shows that they were to reflect on what happened to its inhabitants.

Not only this, but Allah tells us that He left its ruins as a CLEAR SIGN for those who would reflect
{And when Our messengers came to Lot, they were mistreated, and he was embarrassed towards them. And they said "Do not fear, and do not be saddened. We will save you and your family, except for your wife; she is of those doomed * "We will send down upon the people of this town an affliction from the heaven for what wickedness they were in." * And We left remains of it as a clear sign for a people who comprehend}...

Furthermore, the ruins of the town are located on an often-travelled trade route which Muhamad and his people knew very well

{And it is on an established path * In that is a sign for the faithful}...

And the reason they have not found Lot?s town until now is because of a rampant Jewish and Orientalist culture which has projected the events of the Old Testament from its original theater in Arabia, onto the Levant. And this is what we read in the Islamic books of ?tafseer?, where the commentators are nearly unanimous that the location of this town is near the Dead Sea. And when archeologists combed every inch of that area and didn?t find it, they said ?Oh it must be buried UNDER the sea bed?.

And it never occurred to the Muslims to ask how it can be buried under the sea bed, when their Quran says the town was left as a CLEAR SIGN?

4. Geographic Projections and ?Coincidences?.

Coinsidence #1 Beersheba

Let?s now go back to this controversial name ?Beersheba?. In the Orientalist Arabic translations of the Torah, the name is rendered as ?Bi?ir Sab3? which can literally mean either ?Well of the Wild Beast?, or ?Well of the Seven?. As a result of the diabolical geographic projections, this area is believed to be in Palestine. The problem, however, which has left the archeologists of the East and West dumbfounded, is the total absence of a well or underground water source there, or any evidence that a man named ?Abraham? ever settled in the area. The name ?Beersheba? is mentioned over 30 times in the Torah, the first of which is encountered in Genesis 21, which we have previously seen. Here's a reminder

So Abraham rose early in the morning, and took bread and a skin of water; and putting on her shoulder, he gave and the boy to Hagar, and sent her away. Then she departed and wandered in the Wilderness of Beersheba.

As for the second instance this name appears in, it tells us the story of a dispute that took place over a water source (a spring) which was discovered by a strange, alien family, composed of an old man, his wife, and his infant son, who had just settled as migrants in the heart of some valley somewhere. The Torah relates to us what happened in a logical and acceptable account, through a conversation which took place between Abraham, and an Arab man by the name of ?Abimelech? (Abi Malek), right after the spring was discovered. Here is what it says, word for word

22 And it came to pass at that time that Abimelech and Phichol, the commander of his army, spoke to Abraham, saying, "God with you in all that you do. 23 "Now therefore, swear to me by God that you will not deal falsely with me, with my offspring, or with my posterity; but that according to the kindness that I have done to you, you will do to me and to the land in which you have dwelt." 24 And Abraham said, "I will swear." 25 Then Abraham rebuked Abimelech because of a well of water which Abimelech's servants had seized. 26 And Abimelech said, "I do not know who has done this thing; you did not tell me, nor had I heard until today." 27 So Abraham took sheep and oxen and gave them to Abimelech, and the two of them made a covenant. 28 And Abraham set seven ewe lambs of the flock by themselves. 29 Then Abimelech asked Abraham, "What these seven ewe lambs which you have set by themselves?" 30 And he said, "You will take seven ewe lambs from my hand, that they may be my witness that I have dug this well." 31 Therefore he called that place Beersheba, because the two of them swore an oath there. (Genesis 21 22-31)

Regardless of the reason given for the naming of the well, it is clear that Abraham had discovered the spring himself. This supports the Quran, which says that he ?provided habitation for his family?, not that he "expulsed" them, and that he migrated to the new land WITH THEM. The contradiction in the Torah becomes evident at this point (have you realized it by now?)

More importantly, is this 'Beersheba" really in Palestine, as they say?

First of all, we need to be aware that the modern Arab linguists and commentators who have studied the Aramaic language, have pointed out that the Arabic translation of the word, which renders it as ?Bi?r al- Saba?a? (literally Well of THE Seven) is not accurate, and this for two reasons

1- because in the original and silent Aramaic text, the letter which appears in the word is ?sh?, not ?s?.

2- That the pronoun "al" (meaning "the&quot is NOT found in the original so-called "Hebrew" text. The Torah calls the place Bir Sheb3 (it's actually TWO seperate words), not Bir - ha - Sheb3 (the Hebrew pronoun article "ha" is equivalent to "al" in Arabic).

This has been made evident by academic linguists of the caliber of Ziad Minah, Kamal Salibi, Fadhel al- Rubay'i, and others. They have pointed out that the more logical explanation is that the name "Beer Sheb3a" (obviosly a feminine name) actually means "Well of Fullness" not "Well of the Seven" (This explains the absence of the pronoun article "the" in the word). Moreover, the lack of any archeological evidence of a well or spring in the Palestinian location, shows that the "Beersheba" of the Torah was never there.

The "Hebrew" name is a mistranslation of the Arabic name "Bi'r Shab3a", and the further incorrect Orientalist translation into Arabic may in fact have been influenced by an ancient Greek rendering of the word. In his book ?The Torah Came from Arabia? , Kamal Salibi brings to our attention the following facts

Take a look at the map below

http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/Gallus.jpg

A map showing the actual path taken by the Roman army, from Najran (in the orange circle) to al-Nujayra (in the blue circle). The green circle shows the geographical location of "Bi'r Sheb3a".

So I ask you now Is the existence of a location called ?Well of Seven? (as Strabo ? who tried to translate the word under the limitations of the Greek language, and its different vocal structure from Aramaic) in the far south of Saudi Arabia, a coincidence?

What if I told you now that Al-Hamadani (the great Arab geographer who was a native of the Hamadan region of northern Yemen) happens to mention the same area in his book ?Description of Arabia? ?

Take a look at the following (DoA, page 14

. (...) (...) .

Exposition Here, Al-Hamadani mentions two areas. The first is called ?Masna3a? (the name indicates water canals), and the second is ?Shab3a?. He also describes the entire surrounding region as located among ruins of ancient fortifications, and water wells. He also describes a stairway, carved from the natural rock, which comes down from one ancient military keep, to the Masna3a ? Shab3a wells, where one could have easy access to the water.

So what we have now is the following A description of an area called ?Well of Seven (Saba3)?, by an ancient Greek geographer, which ?happens? to coincide with a mesmerizing description by AL-Hamadani, over 1,000 years later, who called it ?Shab3a? (the correct pronunciation), and finally verified by an Arab historian who visited the place PERSONALLY in 1983 (Kamal Salibi), and verified its existence on the outskirts of the Suadi city of "Khamees Msheit" (which is shown on the map) as well as the existence of Himyaritic fortifications and the river canyon that the Roman general Gallus had crossed in the year 24 B.C, the several water springs there, and the fortified towns near it, exactly as the Greek geographer Strabo described them.

There, ladies and gentlemen is the "Bi'r Shab3a" (Beersheba) of the Torah.

And you can dismiss it as a coincidence if you like.

• Coincidence #2 Kinanah

It is hardly possible to read any passage about Abraham in the OT, without at least some passing mention of a people known as the "Canaanites". Ever since we embarked on our journey to search for the true location of Muhamad (P), we have been seeing proof after proof that the prophets mentioned in the Quran were all based in the south west of Arabia. So this means that the Canaanites must have been there as well, since we are stipulating that Abraham migrated to their land.

Then Abram took Sarai his wife and Lot his brother's son, and all their possessions that they had gathered, and the people whom they had acquired in Haran, and they departed to go to the land of Canaan. So they came to the land of Canaan. (Genesis 12 5,6]

So who are these people? And what role did they play in the life and times of Abraham?

The origin of the word "Canaan" can be found in the silent, three-letter Aramaic word ?knn?. This is how the word was spelled in the original, vowel-less text, before the Masorite Priests of Turkey decided to accentuate the Aramaic letters, starting from the 6th Century A.D. In his book entitltled ?The Search for Jesus? (page 132), Kamal Salibi verifies this by saying

The rampant geography of the Torah has made people believe that there was once an ancient land in the Levant area called ?Canaan?. The shattering conclusion that the historians and archeologists have reached is that there is not ONE trace of such a name in the Levant itself!

Prepare yourselves for a big shock.

Arab historian and religious researcher Ahmad Dawood, in his famous book entitled ?Arabs, Semitics, Hebrews, Bani Israel, and the Jews?, throws some light on this centuries-old puzzle. Listen to what he says

Another researcher, Dr. Ali Abou Assaf (who is Syrian, by the way), verifies Dawood?s claims in his book ?Ruins of the Ancient Kingdoms of Syria?, where he says

This is of course the same Herodotus who verified that the Phoenicians originally came from along the Red Sea coast of Arabia. Here is a quote from Herodotus

Not once did Herodotus label the region as "Canaan".

Likewise, Greek geographer, historian, and philosopher Strabo mentioned that the Phoenicians originally came from the Arabian peninsula, where they had similar gods, cemeteries and temples as they have in Palestine.

Not once does Strabo label them ?Canaanites?.

These scholars (Dawwod and Abou Assaf) are actually onto something. But there is one small issue which I feel must be clarified Dawood calims that besides the Torah, there is not a single historic document in the Levant that mentions ?Canaanites?. The fact is, there are some documents, but NOT originally from the Levant region. Some very old Mesopotamian inscriptions (from as early as 1800 BC) mention a people by the name ?Kinanhu? (this is EXACTLY how it is pronounced according to the vocal glossary of the Babylonian cuneiform), who were causing trouble by infiltrating into the regions of the Levant (they were described as bandits and thieves). Also, the name appears as ?ki-na-ah-na? in the Amarna tablets (14th Century B.C), which were written in Acadian cuneiform.

Please pay attention the Semitic name is KINANAH, not "Canaan".

And these people were NOT orginally from the Levant. So where the Hell did they come from?

Consider this

1- There is is absolutely ZERO archeological evidence that the peoples mentioned in the Amarna and Mesopotamian tablets were in Palestine.

2- There is ZERO physical evidence that the Egyptians and the Mesopotamians ever vied for control of Palestine, which every evidence has shown was a periferal land of very few resources, and very little strategic importance.

On the contrary, ALL the evidence indicates that they vied for the Red Sea coast of Arabia, and control of the trade routes. ANd I will soon show you the presence of ancient Egyotian ruins and fortifications deep inside Arabia (I will post a link to a video).

So we can say that the claims of Dawood and Abou Assaf are, in a sense, correct. And the Mesopotamian tablets indicate that the Ki-na-nah were NOT originally from the region, but were causing trouble by infiltrating it gradually, and pepetrating lots of looting in the process.

Kinanah?The name rings one very big bell?

Have you ever heard of Bani Kinanah? In case you haven?t, let me tell you who, and more importantly WHERE they were

The name Bani Kinanah pertains to a south Arabian mega-tribe whose domain was vast regions of the Tahama and mountainous regions of Asir and Yemen. These are the SAME "Cannanites" that are mentioned in the Torah, always with curses and damnations, because they had vast control of the coastal areas and trade routes, and, during the time of King David, their pagan clans (among them the ?Filist?) fought many bloody wars with the monotheistic Israelites. These are the SAME Kananites, the legendary Arabian tribe, to whose land Abraham had migrated, some 800 years before the time of David.

What do you think of that?

Below is an old map taken from a Saudi gazeteer, showing exactly where the coast of Kinanah was, and where this legendary mega-tribe lived. If you can read Arabic, try googling or , and see for yourselves.

http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/Kinanah.jpg

The original land of "Canaan"

Al-Hamadani, who is a native of Northern Yemen, is no doubt very qualified to tell us where they lived. Here is what he says in DoA (page 231)

(...) (...) (...) (...) .

Exposition He is mentioning various areas along the coast of south-west Arabia, stretching from Jasan (Jazan) in the north (in Asir), all the way down and past the ?elbow? of Arabia, near the city of Aden, in Yemen?These places were the domains of several tribes, most prominent of which were Bani Majeed (the "Meggido" of the Torah), the Tribe of Haram, and the volcanic plains and slopes of BANI KINANAH.

Another passage from DoA (page 85) mentioning Kinanah

? ? (...) .

Exposition Here, Al-Hamadani is talking about the Surat of Yemen, The greatest and most renowned mountains in all of Arabia, and their expanse which reaches the red sea, and the domain of the tribes of Ash3ar, Akk, Hakam, and KINANAH.

These were tribes - among many - who at first began infiltrating north towards the Levant, causing a headache to the Mesopotamian colonies in Syria (NOT PALESTINE), then started to migrate in huge numbers after the Assyrian and Babylonian campaigns laid waste to their lands in Asir and Yemen, starting from 700 BC.

Finally, one last word must be said about Bani Kinanah, before we move on to the next ?coincidence?.

The orientalists, in their commentaries, are always quick to mention that the so-called ?Canaanites?, the masters of the Palestinian coast of the Mediterranean, were famous for their dark reddish purple garments. What very few people are aware of is that in the forgotten books of the Arab historians, most notably ?Al-Mas3oudi? and ?Yaqoot al-Hamwi?, there is mention of Bani Kinanah, the ancient Arabian tribe ? composed of several clans - who were masters of the Red Sea coast, and were famous for building red domes. In fact, there are many Arabian legends that have recorded these structures in Yemen, and Asir, and very few such structures remain after the "science-loving" Saudis bulldozed the entire region in the 1980?s.

So we have Canaanites of Palestine, masters of the Mediterranean coast, and makers of reddish-purple garments.
And we have Bani Kinanah, located on the Asir and Yemen coast, and builders of red domes.

Is this a coincidence too? Or did someone hijack the entire history and geography of south Arabia, and project it onto the Levant?

---

To Be Continued

---

SLM,
"FANTASTIK".
Thank you for your "Time" & "Work", so interesting.
But do you mean, that, what is on th? book of jew is "most l'y" true !?
Not about th? east-west, north-south .. "Locations" .. Like an "History" book ??
Maybe, i missed your "point", cause its ? big one to read & compr?hend !!!
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads"

Salam IMHO, pazuzu,

Now this is getting me confused...

I thought Jacob was the son of Isaac...

It seems from 1171 that they were brothers? brickwall

Unless that means that the glad tidings are of a son and a grandson...

which could mean that Ismail might then be the father of Isaac after all? elektro

SLM,
"sounds" like, "something" is WRONG !!!
Lets Keep "studying" ...
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads"

Peace Bro IMHO

What makes things complicated is that Allah points us in the Quran to the Scholars of the Jews to clarify some points from what was revealed to them..

Another point is that there is another huge body of religious books the Jews follow and that is the Talmud, in fact the Talmud was their Hadith, plus notes and edicts "fatwas" of later scholars/rabbis, and still now it is being added to...

It is possible the Jews / Israelites in Yemen might be more reliable than the ones who migrated up north? and info from them might be useful... as if pazuzu is right, they were the ones Allah was addressing and speaking about in the Quran...

SLM,
PAZUZU, "said" that "allah", was adressing to th? "jew" !?
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads"

Salaam brother Pazuzu

Thank you for addressing our concern. There are two more issues I would like to discuss;

1. 3;33 Allah did choose Adam and Noah the family of Abraham, and
   the family of Imran above all people.
   19;58 Those were some of the prophets on whom Allah did bestow His Grace of the posterity of Adam, and of those whom We carried (in the Ark) with Noah, and of the posterity of Abraham and Israel of those whom We guided and chose; whenever the Signs of (Allah) Most Gracious were rehearsed to them, they would fall down in prostrate adoration and in tearsThe posterity of Abraham is mentioned along with Israel, so the question is who is this person Israel; was he alive at the same time as Ibrahim(as)? And what about Lot; he migrated to another place so could Israel be from Lot's side?
   However in 333 The family of Imran is mentioned, in the context of prophets, as the one chosen above all so was Israel perhaps from the family of Imran? hmm

{And his wife was standing, so she laughed when We gave her the good news of Isaac, and after Isaac, Jacob}...

2. We learn from the Torah that Jacob is the son of Isaq, and was later named Israel, thus only the children of Jacob are considered 'chosen', but the Quran does not confirm that. It seems to me that the verse above could be interpreted to mean that the good news of two sons was given to Ibrahim(AS) and his wife (Sarah). In contrast to the Bible version, where Sarah is shown to be a jealous wife she could have been a kind and paticent wife who accepted Ismael, thus Allah(swt) who rewards patience may have rewarded her with two sons despite her old age.
   As they were both old it seems unlikely, if this news indeed referred to a son and a grandson, that they would have lived to see the son of Isaac. Allah knows best.
   Jazakallah Khair
   peace

SLM,
I dont "understand" why Abraham & Ibrahim !?
Could you "help" me !! Thank you
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads"

Salam,

would it be possible that Isaac and Ismail are true brothers with the mother the same?

or better, and that will be truly mind exploding, Isaac and Ismail being the same person? after all, we hear Israel and Jacob being the same person too...

and the Israelites want Isaac to have been the object of a potential sacrifice... whereas the Quran tafseer tells us it is Ismail, even though the Quran does not mention him by name...

or more mind boggling, in a deep trance, Ismail is the father of Isaac?...

again I might be hallucinating... hypno

SLM,
Th? "quran" does not "mention" isma'il !?
...
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads"