Peace all,

It seems to me that the issue of racism is one which is tainted with preconceptions that stem from mankind's history of faults. By this I mean that we look at racism through the eyes of people who have been taught what racism is, rather than looking at it from a logical perspective. Although there are many instances of clear racism that have confronted us in history (e.g. South African apartheid, North/South American genocide of original inhabitants, Australian Aboriginal atrocities, etc.), there are some fundamental questions that require answers from us as God's "khalifah" on earth. I will list 2 here for now.

1. Is every person created with equal opportunity to succeed in getting closer to God?
   If this is the case, then there can be no "master race" with regard to gaining the pleasure of or nearness to God.
   If this is not the case, then surely we are dealing with an unjust, racist God.

2. Is every person entitled to the food & water that God has provided for all mankind?
   I have chosen to put this question forward because I believe that the right to food & water is unquestionable. I have not come across anyone who can claim that these things are not a right, but a privilege.
   Therefore if every person is entitled to these, then surely until such time as all people in a society are not deprived of this, a believer cannot indulge him/herself with luxuries. Our indulging would be tantamont to racism, since we consider our rights above the rights of others.
   If, on the other hand, every person is not entitled to these, we would be dealing with a lying, racist God, since according to 116 among other verses, every creatur on earth's provision is due from God.

Please keep in mind that these are issues that I am trying to work out & as such, may at times not be as well formulated as they should be. I am eager & open to all comments & interpretations.

Imraan

Peace Imraam.

I think there is much truth to what you say.We always have to guard how we use money,and other recourses.Not indulging our self in materialism.
The Quran say that the spendthrifters,the ones that use money extragavantly,are brothers of satan.Like the saudis,that use goldthreads in their curtins,and gold in their bathrooms.Nothing but brothers of satan.

Salaam.

Very nice AceOfHearts.When you write,it is very easy to understand.

Thank you!

In west Africa,where I am born,the traditions with magic,is rampant.The things that Amid talk about,is there,and it is a old way.
People goes to marabous,a scoolard Quran man,that help them with trivial problems in the daily life.They are told to feed some poor people,maybe,or to find a chicken with this or this colour,and bury various parts of it,and wait for it to work.You get jujus,amulets that shall protect you from different things.

Some time,it is also used to put spell on people in an evil way.Like Amid say,they bury things on your property,or hide it in your house.The marabous tthat do this kind of magic,has of course sold their soul to the devil,and they bend words from the Quran.

But one thing my grandfather always told me,is that if you dont belive in it,it can not harm you.He said it was the placebo effect,that made spells seems to work.And then he always cited the sure number 63,11"No calamity befalls,but by the Leave of Allah"

If jealous eyes,could hurt us,what power do they have?Not greater then Allah.

Salaam.

In all of Africa,every man is circumcised,no matter which religion he has,or not have.The people into traditional belifs also.In Africa,you are not a man,if you are not circumzised.

It is a custom from the ancient Egyptian god Horus,that say that all humans are born androgyn,and that the female part of the boy(the foreskin)should be taken away.And the masculine from girls(the qlitoris cover) when they were around six seven years old.

The Jews took it with them,when they left Egypt.

Peace

what about this verse?? 4615

What is the relation between age of marriage and bone maturity? why u linked them to each other?

Because bone hardening,is essensial,for the calsium contain in the bones.Teen pregnancy,result in very low levels of calsium in the bone structure,and can give them osteoporosis.

http//news.bio-medicine.org/biology-news-2/Teenage-pregnancy-may-put-girls-at-risk-for-osteoporosis-2877-1/

And girls that get pregnant too early,the birthcanal passage,is to little,for a child to get throug.In countries with poor healt,this girls die in childbirth.
The risk of dying for a girl in pregnancy,increase very much,as younger she is.

Salaam.

Yes Far,we are mammals,but in which way can you compare elephants that choose old males,with that of a ten year old girl married to an old man?Did she choose him herself?

Young girls can get pregnant at once they have their period,and if they get pregnant,as nine,ten,ellewen,their birthcanal is not ready yet.They suffer from fistula,and death,across the world.

Do you consider a girl,at the age of ten or ellewen,as a woman Far,because she has got her menstrauation?Does she have an active womb?

Education and age,for women,is the two factors in this world,that enhance her parenthood.When you educate woman on contraseption,health issues,nutrition,and so on,so on,the chances for their children to grow up,is much higher.

It is nobodys right to marry your child daughters away,they have to be baligh,and have an understanding of their situation.And the right to say no!

A menarchecal female marrying a post andropausal male is a good thing. Good genes from the old male go to the female for reproduction. But also, that young woman will learn about such things as sexual matters better from her old experienced husband than from her mother. This would also make sense in regards to the verses that state marry women if you fear for orphans, as in the old husbands that die and leave young women behind.

As for that court case, is that the one where the father asked the groom for more money?

Far,that statement,makes it so clear that you are a man.A ten year old girl,marry an old man,to learn about sex,for her next husband?What kind of understanding is this?

Good genes from the old man?Today girls die in childbirth,because they are too young to carry a child,and give birth.Their bodys is not ready yet.Because of a diet high on fet,girls today get their period early,many from 10-11 year,it does not mean that they are ready for pregnancy.It only means that the body has reached the magic 22% fat level on the body.

Is it from the Quran,to marry your daughters away,children,that did not yet reach maturity?

It is not from the case,where the father,wanted more money,no.

Salaam.

Well Siki,
as a young women,I am very happy to find these strong voices of females,here.Learned females,that answer,with knowledge and respect.

I have a lot to learn.

Did you see the grand mufti,of Saudia,saying 15 of january,in an lecture,that to marry girls from they are ten,is good,and proper,and that a good upbringing,will make a girl capable,to carry out her duties as a wife!

A wife tried trough court,to file for divorce,on her ten year old daughter,that the father married away to a man 50 year old.The court said of course that a wife have no right,not a mother either,and that the girl,could herself filed for divorce,when she reached puberty!

In muslim countries,this is what you called obedience Siki.

How you men,think,when you look at this world,that it is fair and right,that men rule women and that marrige means obediance,I can not understand.

And it is from this disturbed images of women and their duties,from hadith and translations from the Quran,that makes you hold on to it.

I can only say,dream on,Siki.

The other one,that said some very rude words,to Farida,is not even worth mentioning yuck

www.wluml.org

Farida

I wish I could say what I want to say,like you do. bravo

Thank you

Salaam aleikum.

When you look around,women today,in colleges,for example,they make men bite the dust,when it comes to acchivements.

http//www.nytimes.com/2006/07/09/education/09college.html?_r=1

It has always been put a lid on females expression of intellect,and capacity.You do it,when you say they shall obey their husband,and that they should only deal with affairs that are women affairs.What is not women affairs in this world today?

You also speak segregation,you must have lived long enough on the planet to see that segregation does not work,either it comes to race or women.In Norway,where I residence at the time,muslim men from very segregated muslim countries,is behind a large number of rapecases.While muslim men,from countries that have other traditions,is not on the list.

According to surveys in Egypt,62% of men say that they have harassed women sexually.82% of the Egyptian women,has experienced sexually harassment,and 98% of the female tourists.In many muslim countries,women are only sexual beings,and they carry the responsibility of mens sexuality.

You have taken your influence from this distorted picture of females.

(&#1593 Ata? = He consented; or complied with what was desired of him.

24.54 Say Comply with what Allah and the messenger desire of you (comply with the divine system established by the message) But if they turn away, then he is only responsible for his obligation, and you are responsible for your obligations. If you comply (with the divine system) you will be guided. The messenger?s duty is only to convey the clarity.

The messenger only delivers the message. If someone does not comply with what is required of him or become ?nashiz? the messenger is not required to take any action. He cannot beat him ?even lightly?

It is difficult to understand how some people can think that Allah gave them the authority that others shall obey them. And they think that this authority is given them just because they are male and others are female.

Salaam.

Thank you Tlepsh!

Peace,

Farida. Rijaal means men. Any adult human male. What are the Quran's standards for a man to live by (this doesn't make or break his being a rajl)? To support women, to encourage an environment of rahmah (mercy), and to not be abusive. Whereas the Quran does give the man the upperhand in the Quran (in wordly affairs only), and I do believe that when the Quran says that a man can hit his wife, that does not mean hit her to hurt her (we all can hit someone in a way that does not hurt the person we hit), but hit her to admonish her after he has already spoken to her and has even not slept with her to protest her rebellious behavior and attitude. I personally also think that as the Quran says, men will never be able to be 100 percent just with women. I think that is because women are just way too subjective. And there are serious differences between men attitudes and women attitudes. But instead of trying to create some idealistic, almost idol-like standard for men and give women a reason not to respect them because they don't live up to their exxagerated standards, let's just be reasonable here. If a man is reasonably just, reasonably responsible, reasonable responsive and supportive and over all shows that he fully believes in keeping his commitments to God then a woman should listen to her man and give him the leading role in the familiy that was meant for an able bodied man. Let's not assume that all men are abusive from the start, cuz that is wrong. And if your man does not believe in and honor his commitments to God overall then you need to watch out, and probably get out of that situation. I'm not going to create the vision of some perfect man and down every man that doesn't fit that mold. I'm talking about reasonability. But a woman should not be rebellioius or disrespectful of her husband (and they should avoid men they don't respect) and shouldn't question him unless she sees a contradiction with what her husband tells her and what God asks of her. God asks no-one to destroy themselves for anyone else, nor to stay quiet when they can help the ones they love by offering a word of advice. But pride should not factor into this. Women have very big egos as well, and have a harder time realizing it than men, as far as I've seen. I think some of the most egotistical people I have met have been women and not men. Men can be generally stubborn and stupid (Like most people.) But ego goes beyond just stubborn. Ego is an over-assertion of one's personality and ideas and an excessive idea of superiority justified in anyway. And when that bubble is bursted, watch out! From what I have seen women's egos are a whole lot easier to offend than men's, usually provoking erratic, and illogical reactions. I think our societal ways these days are catered to assuaging the egos of women and that's not right either.

Godbless,
Anwar

Salaam

Progod,you must have met som weird ladies in your life,the words you use about women and how they are,is just not correct.

If you go back to Prophet Muhammeds(pbuh),you will see that the standard you are laying on women,is the standard that came afterwards.During the Prophets time,women were warriors,queens,teachers of men,even in the affairs of Allah.

For you to know a little of muslim womens and their struggle and history,visit www.wluml.org

Peace

Peace,

A warning to the believing single men here. Stay away from these women (if they are single)!! If they are not single, let me show some sympathy to the husbands if they act like they speak.

There is nothing wrong with obedience of a wife to her husband. Yes her husband is a human being and obedience to God takes precedence but a wife should obey her husband if he is godly and not exceeding the bounds of the Quran. That is how God says it should be and any believing woman who will rebel against her husband with her excuse being 'He's not the boss of me' should be fearful of the Hell-fire. That rebellion is not only in spite of her husband but also in spite of God, and is motivated by pure pride.

God gave the responsible believing man this privaledge for good reason. A I discussed some of that in my post above, that was quoted by Fahad. A woman who rejects this guidance from God should watch out in the hereafter, she might have a shock coming her way. A truly believing, humble woman would have not problem and would not be raising any objections to obeying her believing, responsible and reasonable husband. The same warning goes for the abusive, irresponsible husbands, whatever their excuses are they should fear the hell-fire just as much.

Godbless,
Anwar

Salaam aleikum

You warn the men is this thread,against us woman that does not agree with obedience in a marrige Progod,and say that we may have a suprise coming in the hereafter.I think that men who taught they are the chiefs of women and their wifes,also have a surprise coming.

The womans situation in muslim countries,that have put your thoughts Progod,in system,is failing out,big time.Beliving muslim womens are living hell,here on earth,completly in hands of men.They can not travel,without husbands agreement,and without a mahram.They can not start divorce negotiation,without their husband agreement.They loose all parentship,over children,in a divorce,and if they are very unlucky,thay will never see their kids again,before the kids are grown up.

Obedience for a women is not only to her husband,in muslim countries.She really never have authority,on her self.And not reqognised as important,as men.

Allah say that humans shall not have any other master than Him,and you Progod,say that for womens,two masters is required,God and their husbands?

I think that what will bring harmony in a marrige,is equality,not obedience,as you belive.

Peace

Peace

And what an end TruthSeeker bravo

bravo

Thanks for those words of wisdom, Marleya

Peace,

Hadi

Peace!

Thank you so much Hadi!

You made me feel proud!

Peace.

I look around me,and see muslim couples manage themselves,without,no obedience from non.I see couples discuss,and come to a mutual agreement,without nobody have to obey the other.

I dont think a marrige is a ship,that are in need of one captain,there are two adults involved,and mutual agreements,must be the basic.Then there will be no chaos.To be a captain on a ship,you need education,so on a boat it is the person best fit to rule a ship,that is the captain.

Marrige in Islam,is a contract,with mutual benefits.

Every buisness beetween equals,is done with mutual agreement,why is that different,when a woman is involved?She has to be obedient?

No,it is the same old,same old,thinking that a man,is always better equipted,than women,in deeling with life and truth,even when the reality shows us different.Men that kill their wifes,and dont think they are few,79% of all women gets killed by a man that they are in relationship with,or has been.Very often,this men are used to obedience from their wifes,and when they dont,bam.And the men belong to every corner in this world,and with religion or not religion.
Muslim countries have choosen not to deal with their honory killings,that happen every day.Obedience is a key word here,in this sad storys,where men think that if a lady disobey,and by that deforme tha family honour,they can be killed.Jordan for example,have in their criminal laws,the reduced sentences,for husbands,brothers,fathers,that commit this kind of crimes,but most often cases do not go to court.

Just forget obedience,and get your minds on mutual agreement.

Salaam alaikum Anwar, all.

I second that. Just like if the children should obey the parents but not when the parents contradict God.

Salaam aleikum

I dont think a wife can be obedient to a husband,like children are to the parents.A grown married woman,is not a child,in the hands of the husband,and if her obedience is to be compared with,a childs obidience,than I dont agree.

Fahad,you speak about relationships,what about brothers?A woman has relationships with many men,not only husbands,they have brothers,uncels,cousins,and so on,and on.Is her obedience also required here?

In my fathers culture,it is like that.The woman never belong to her self.First the father and brothers and uncels,then the husband,and all the others too.She is to drop anything she is doing,when any of them need attention.In many muslim cultures,men understand that they should be respected,just because they are born men,and that is enough.

The boys get to be spoiled,and the girls,eat less food,suffer more mailnutrition,more diseas,and death,than boys.When she grow up,she continu being a child,with no influence on her own life,completly in the hands of men.

Woman are their one humans,with the same intellegence as men,and with powers over men,as men have over women.

Salaam to you all!

I dont understand your aversion to Anwar?

Who argue on that the Nubians were mighty people?

Al Kidr,the white men were in Africa,long before they came for slaves.In european museums you will find paintings of white mans meetings with Kings and Queens,the white men on their knees in front of black people dressed in silk and gold,and with fierce soldiers.The Kingdoms like in Mali also,under Mansa Mousa,a muslim ruler around year 1345 after christ,recived white men,and traded with them.

Vikings of the scandinavians,were soldiers for rent,in Africa,and middle east.They went to make money,in the powerfull nations,and went back to Norway or Sweeden when their contracts went out.

Some scientists here,even think that they in 1948,found in Sweeden,proof that some of the vikings took Islam with them back,a grave was found,and art effects with muslim inscriptions on it,from year 800 after christ.
No body have the truth alone.

Non violence,and unity,beetween human beings,is my longings.

"you believe their is no way to God except through jesus," Yes I do - See what Jesus says

John 14

6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

Many people believe this statement makes Christianity very exclusive but, it means that because of Jesus' sacrifice, all of man is able to be in the presence of GOD.

LOL!! You can't tell another person what he believes!! Not one Christian that believes in the Trinity thinks he is worshipping anyone but the One True GOD. Our perception of who that one GOD is just different then yours. Your Allah can not manifest, or doesn't want to, for Christians GOD manifested in ways to help us reach Him because of His love for us.

Peace!

The trinity is like the hadith to the muslims.It appeared after Jesus(pbuh) was dead,200-300 hundred years later.It is implemented by man.

The Jews did the same thing with their message,100 years after Moses dead,they wrote Talmud,man maid laws from God.Their Misha and Gemara(hadith).

It seems like we like to alternate the words of our Lord.

Salaam aleikum

Which truth Bilal?

You have said that it is impossible for black people to produce white people,I have proved that the europeans have not always been white,they started out black!

The truth is that the difference only goes skindeep,and the variation beetween africans themselves,are bigger than the differences beetween africans and europeans,or asians,or aboriginies.

For centuries tha white people have tried to search for the race gene,that would favourable the white man,but ended up with the knowledge that black people were their ancestors,that life was created in Africa.

What is more right than emotion?When somethings sounds wrong,feels wrong,than I trust my emotion.

Peace Bilal,may Allah guide us all.