Peace mmouhammad,

Your reply does not address my questions. The core issue is whether the present order of the Quran text is the one dictated and authorised by God and how one can assuredly tell that the Quran has been preserved fully with no alteration or loss of portions of the original Quran.

Yours truly,

K.Vivekanandan

Peace vivek, all

My post might have not given you a direct reply to your inquiry, nonetheless, it is very much related and a reflection on the related verses of the Reading; read verse 482;

482
482 Do they not reflect on the Reading? If it was from any other than God they would have found in it many a discrepancy.

However, in relation to your inquiry, I believe, heart and soul and accept what is said in verse 159 as the truth.
159
159 Indeed it is we who have sent down the Reminder, and indeed it is we who will preserve it.

The reading is preserved in its arrangements and number of verses as it was gathered in the way The God deemed.

However, the plan " " Arabic alphabetic written version is the only true version of the Reading; all other currently accepted readings "recitations" and its translations are based on the man made understanding and grammatical rules.

I believe that the Quran does not and will not depend on any external proof; the Quran is sufficient by itself and it is the proof and the witness on itself. Read the following verses

7516 7517 7518 7519
7516 Do not move your tongue with it to expedite it. 7517 It is for us to gather it and read it. 7518 So when we read it, you shall follow its Reading. 7519 Then it is for us to explain it.

I reflect, as we all should, on the Reading to learn more and more. We are told in very clear words that, if the reading was from any other than God, we would have found in it many discrepancies.

Anyway, for those who are not satisfied with verses 159, 482 and 7517-19, you can read for them verses 2849 & 50 and think about verse 4723 & 24.

2849 2850

2849 Say ?Then bring forth a book from God that is better in guidance so I may follow it, if you are truthful.? 2850 But if they fail to respond to you, then know that they follow only their desires. And who is more astray than he who follows his desire, without guidance from God? God does not guide the wicked people.

4723 4724
4723 These are the ones whom God has cursed and thus He made them deaf and blinded their sight. 4724 Do they not reflect on the Reading? Or are there locks on their hearts?

Peace Layth,

Except the ten commandments, all other portions of the Torah also were revealed as a recitation.

How do you know Muhammad rearranged the Quran in the present order after it was fully revealed, that too, in accordance with instructions from God? What is your proof for this belief? If Muhammad received instructions from God after completion of revelation of the entire Quran, why are you not considering these instructions as God's revelations which in this case must have formed part of the Quran? You are only following the baseless tale of your forefathers that the Quran is fully preserved and that the present Quran order was made by Muhammad as instructed by God.

Yours truly,

K.Vivekanandan

Peace all,

17106
17106 and a reading we divided so that you read it unto the people regularly, and we sent down its divisions accordingly.

2532
2532 And those who rejected said ?If only the Reading was sent down to him in one go!? It was done as such so we could strengthen your heart with it, and we arranged it accordingly.
2533
2533 And for every example they come to you with, we bring you the truth and the best explanation.

731 732 733 734
731 O you, the one covered with his garments. 732 Stand the night except for a little. 733 Half of it, or less a little. 734 Or more a little, and arrange the Reading in its arrangement.

In verses 17106 and 3532&33, God is confirming that the reading was not revealed all at once and has given us two reasons. 1- To strengthen the mind and heart of the Messenger and 2- To gradually build up a faithful community in a practical and realistic way and prepare whole new generations under Quran's education system, an era, history said it continued for 23 years.

God also in verse 17106 informed us that accordingly, he arranged the revelation of the reading to serve these purposes.

In verses 731 to 4 God is instructing the Messenger to arrange the reading according to its arrangement immediately after if has been revealed.

20114
20114 ? and do not rush into the reading before its revelation to you is complete?

7516 7517 7518 7519
7516 Do not move your tongue with it to expedite it. 7517 It is for us to gather it and read it. 7518 So when we read it, you shall follow its Reading. 7519 Then it is for us to explain it.

In verses 20114 and 7516, we see that God is instructing the Messenger not to rush into reading before its revelation is complete and not to move his tongue with it to expedite it. Here the questions are, how would anyone rush into reading something before it is fully revealed to him and how would he move his tongue "trying to read it" in order to expedite it.

Come to think of this, I take it that the book is the written format, and the reading is the vocal format. According to history and current known facts, The Quran was initially written in plan Arabic alphabet hence the existence of various readings till today.

In light of the above can we not consider that the Quran in its plan written format was engraved "downloaded directly" into the Messenger's Unconscious Memory? And that the gradual revelation was the reading "vocal format" that brought forward the engraved writing to the conscious memory. Can we not think that the Messenger was trying on his own by moving his tongue, to recite, vocally that is, to read what is already written inside his memory and wondering how would he be able to gather it all and arrange it as required? Therefore we can understand the instruction in verses 20114 and 7516-19.
Further more in verse 876 God tells the Messenger that he will make him read so he won't forget. 876 as a responce to the Messenger's thought that he is unable to remember what he knows that he already has inside him.

Another point to make here is related to the stand alone letters that some chapters of the Quran start with, such as ALM, TH, TS and the like. When we read these letters we say their alphabetic names such as ALIF LAM MEEM and so on, however, in the written format these letters are connected in similar way to words. In another word, if someone is writing according to hearing alone, he would write the alphabetic names and if he is reading the written format alone, he would say them as words, connected letters that is.

Therefore we can say that for anyone to read and write these letters in correct form he must have knowledge of both reading and writing in order for him to instruct others and be able to verify what has been written.

Peace Eid,

Peace mmouhammad,

father, brother is unsolvable because father cannot inherit with a sibling.

why not, where in the Quran it said that can not be?

mother, 2 sisters leaves 0 to give the father or the poor.

mother 1/6; 2 sisters 2/35/6 = remainder to the relatives, orphans and needy
Mother 1/6, father 1/6; 2 sisters 2/34/6 remainder = 1/3*4/6 remainder to the relatives, orphans and needy

1/3 mother + 2/3 sisters = 1

mother 1/6; 2 sisters 2/3*5/6 = remainder to the relatives, orphans and needy

Yes simple, no ambiguity, and the numbers have to equate perfectly without remainders.

why it has to be w/o remainder, where does it say that?

Peace

Peace Eid,

I agree, these inheritance rules do not appear clear cut cases, one have to keep trying to understand and link verses together and run all possible scenarios with open mind, and not allowing the mind to be stuck in one position only.

Let us take verse 411 the first 3 conditions" "; you say these condition are only applicable to children as per " ".

From my reading, I understood that God used these conditions in other cases; let us start by verse 4176

4176 They ask your clarification, say "God decrees you in Al-Kalalah, if a man died, not for him children, and for him a sister, so for her half what left, and he inherits her if was not for her children, ELSE IF they were two, so to them (F) the two thirds from what left, But IF they were brethren men and women so to the male luck , God clarifies for you that you (not) be misguided, and God is with everything knowledgeable.

1. So if he has a sister and a brother then to each is 1/2 -
2. So if he has 2 sisters then to each is 1/3 - ? this is a fourth condition applicable in Kalalah verse 4176 only when 2 sister are alone and no brothers.
3. So if he has 2 sisters and one brother then sisters to each is 1/4 and to brother is 1/2 -
4. so if he has 3 sisters and one brother then sisters share 2/3 and brother is 1/3 -

Now let us take verse 412

412 and if a man being inherited Kalalah or a women and has a brother or a sister then to each is 1/6 but if there were more than 2 they share 1/3.

• Here God used ' ' partners, but did not specify the proportion of partnership. Are we to assume they all get equal shares?
  Well I think not and here below is how I understood the distribution

1. Maximum share is 1/3 -
2. sister and brother to each is 1/6 -
3. 2 sisters and one brother partners in 1/3 - then sisters to each is 1/4 and to brother is 1/2 -
4. so if he has 3 sisters and one brother partners in 1/3 then sisters share 2/3 and brother is 1/3 -

Regardless how small or big the inheritance is read verse 47
47
A defined given share is the key here to link to what are defined given shares as it is stated at the beginning of verse 411.

God has defined shares and inheritors under different conditions; I do not think we have any right to change any of them. The remainder in any case can be taken by the state or distributed in accordance to God's instruction in verse 48 and I really don't see why not especially since we gave the defined inheritors there defined shares as instructed. Furthermore, I think the defined share for the 2 sisters alone without brothers is also applicable in all other case that meet this condition; children included.

One of God's rules in relation to money is to change hands. .

I think the simple understanding was lost when people started to increase shares and block heirs to suit there political and worldly needs, just like the sons of Israel in the story of the cow in verse 2.

Peace mmouhammad,

Please address the cases already repeated numerous times (simple math)...

411 without children

husband, mother, sister, brother, father
1 -1/2 husband (412) - 1/6 mother (411) = 1/3 (sister + brother + father) how much to each and why?

4176 without parents and children

husband, 2 sisters 1/2 + 2/3 = 1 1/6 -- why too much?

wife, sister 1/4 + 1/2 = 3/4 (why 1/4 1/4 unallocate; who gets it?

Peace Eid,

husband, mother, sister, brother, father, 1 -1/2 husband (412) - 1/6 mother (411) = 1/3 (sister + brother + father) how much to each and why?

1-1/2 husband (412); each parent gets 1/6 * 1/2 remainder after husband; sister and brother each 1/2 * remainder after parents -

husband, 2 sisters 1/2 + 2/3 = 1 1/6 -- why too much?

1/2 to husband; 2/3*remainder after husband to 2 sisters; remainder after sisters to the relatives and the orphans and the needy.

wife, sister 1/4 + 1/2 = 3/4 (why 1/4 1/4 unallocate; who gets it?

1/4 wife, 1/2*remainder after wife to sister; remainder after sister to the relatives and the orphans and the needy

47
48

47 For the men is a portion from what the parents and the relatives left behind, and for the women is a portion from what the parents and relatives left behind, be it little or much; a forced portion.
48 And if the distribution is attended by the relatives and the orphans and the needy, then you shall give them part of it and say to them a kind saying.

Peace Eid,

I can't understand why a spouse's inheritance is an issue. In the Quran, there is only one single condition that affects spouse's share in the inheritance; this condition is the presence or absence of children in verse 412. Once a spouse's share is paid we move on to distribute the balance.

Now let us look at Kalalah part in verse 412 and if a man being inherited Kalalah and has a brother or sister (fa li kuli) to each is 1/6 and if there were more than that they are partners in 1/3?

Okay so a man died, he has a wife, and the wife will inherit 1/4 or 1/8 as per 412 regardless of any case as she is not an apparent part of any condition. So, assume the deceased has children then we give the wife 1/8 share and move on.

We paid the wife, what is next? Could we give the children their share at this time? well I think we all agree that we need to check if parents are there. (If parents are there, and to his parents to each is 1/6 if has children verse 411) Let us assume that there are no parents, then what? Easy we move to Kalalah 412, the siblings will get max 1/3

The above case is very possible, a man died, left wife, no parents, has children and has siblings, you say that the sibling do not inherit in the presence of wife, because of Kalalah. I say God said Kalalah man or women and not a widower or a widow " ".

So for now we have a wife and children ad siblings inheriting under verse 412 Kalalah. If we remove the wife, how will the inheritance change? I say a bonus to children and siblings. So let us bring the wife back and remove the children, then we will have a Kalalah case as in verse 4176; unless you want to give all to wife!!!

Now let the wife, children, and siblings be, and say his mother is alive. I think this case is very clear, Wife is 1/8, mother is 1/6*remainder, balance to children and nothing for siblings V 411. Removing the wife gives a bonus to children and mother. Still siblings will get nothing even if spouse and father are not there.

Now let us remove the children, keep wife, mother and siblings, wife gets 1/4 all agree. Bring verse 411 and if he has no children and being inherited by his parents to his mother is 1/3 but if he has siblings then to his mother is 1/6. Siblings get 5/6* remainder even if children and father are not there. And non of Kalalah verses are applicable.

---

From your explanation in previous posts, it seems that you think because the shares for the siblings are not defined in 411, the shares must be the ones in Kalalah cases 412 & 176, but when wife is present along with mother, you said the case is no longer Kalalah and hence you give 5/6 to siblings.

It appears that because mother is mentioned alone with reduced share in verse 411 when has siblings, you assumed the Father is not alive. You draw a conclusion that mother is present in Kalalah cases and also concluded if Father is present siblings will not inherit. Furthermore you concluded that Father's share is twice the mother's except when the deceased has children.

---

Verse 411 said to each 1/6 if has children and to mother is 1/3 if no children, but if has siblings to mother is 1/6. In one case, parents get an equal share that is when the deceased has children. The mother gets 1/3 only if the deceased has no children and being inherited by his parents. However, when has siblings, he is no longer being inherited by his parents and therefore to his mother is 1/6.

In my reading, the conditions applied to parents and siblings in verse 411 are

1. The deceased has children, to his parents to each is 1/6 ? equal shares
2. Being inherited by his parents; the deceased has no other heirs. To mother is 1/3.
3. Not being inherited by his parents; and if he has no children and being inherited by his parents, are two conditions that must be met for mother to get 1/3 share, the has no children part negates case 1 above, the being inherited by his parents part confirms the requirement of no other heirs at same level. The mentioning of siblings and the reducing of mother's share accordingly indicates that the siblings are heirs, hence shares as per condition 2 above is N/A, but shares as per condition 1 is more logical as hinted to by God, then to his mother is 1/6.

Conclusions
Kalalah is without parents only.
? Presence or absence of spouse is not an issue in Kalalah.
? Sibling inherits as alternatives to Children in v 411; parents get 1/6 each, siblings share balance.
? Siblings inherit as alternatives to Parents in V 412 Kalalah with children, siblings' get 1/6 each if brother or a sister or a maximum of 1/3 if more than that and the children get the balance.
? Siblings inherit as alternatives to both parents and children in V 4176 Kalalah w/o children.

Peace,

1. Main Inheritors are 4 groups; they inherit in the sequence listed below after evaluating the related conditions to each group.
   a. Spouses
   b. Parents
   c. Siblings,
   d. Children

2. Spouse inherits first regardless of the presence or absence of other inheritors; shares are as per Verse 412. Spouse presence will not block siblings from inheriting if parents or children are not present.

3. Being inherited by his parents; verse411- " ", in this verse there are three possible cases for being inherited by his parents
   a. Both parents alive
   b. Mother alive
   c. Father alive
   If either of parents is alive and deceased has children then siblings will not inherit but if has no children then living parent or parents will inherit with siblings as per 411, to his mother is 1/6.

4. Siblings In English dictionary means brother or sister; I think it has same meaning in Arabic "ikh wa tun, ".
   ? In Arabic
   a. Sister ; two sisters ; more than two sisters ? Gender is known; 1, 2 or many.
   b. Brother ; two brothers ; more than two brothers ? Gender is known; 1, 2 or many.
   c. Siblings Brother or Sister "ikh wa tun, "; Unknown Gender or how many, so "ikh wa tun, " is one to n, males, females or mix.

i. Verse 412 and has a brother or a sister so to each is 1/6 and if they were more than that, they share 1/3 ? " ... ..." Notice the "or " and more than that.

ii. This meaning is further confirmed by verse 4176 ? and has a sister, to her is 1/2 and if they were two sisters to them is 2/3 and if they were ikhwatun, men and women ?" ".

iii. In both verses above God allocates defined shares to defined Genders. However, when the Gender and number of the siblings are no longer considered, God used the Generic term "ikh wa tun, " as in verse 411.

iv. Moreover, in verse 4176 " " God said siblings, men and women, stating the Gender to avoid any misunderstanding and to confirm that the defined shares for one sister and the two sisters are when there are no brothers. The reason is that all other shares are defined under the general distribution rule at the beginning of verse 411. For example 1s +1b and 2s+1b fall under ikhwatun men and women, hence confirms sisters are alone.

v. This usage proves that "ikh wa tun, " without identifier means brothers or sisters or as in the verse a mix of both, for example would we not consider 3, 4 or 5 sisters as siblings, ikhwatun, in verse 4176.

vi. As such we see that God uses "ikh wa tun, " in verse 411 and if he has siblings then to his mother is 1/6; Gender or number of siblings is not an issue. So "ikh wa tun, " is one to n, males, females or mix.

vii. Verse 1258 " " And the brothers of Joseph came. Generic usage of ikhwatun.

viii. Verse 4910 " " The believers, 'males and females' Ikhwatun; Generic and used in the broader meaning Brotherhood.

5. Siblings, , Brothers and Sisters will inherit in 3 cases

a. When deceased has No Children but has mother or father or both. Verse 411 and if he has siblings then to his mother is 1/6. The siblings' share is what would have been for the children if there were any.

b. When deceased has Children but No Parents. Kalalah in verse 412 and a man is being inherited Kalalah or a woman and has a brother or a sister then to each is 1/6 and if there are more than that then they share 1/3. Observe, in this case the share equals to that of the parents if they were alive.

c. When deceased has No Children and Has no Parents; this is Kalalah in verse 4176

Peace Eid,

Your example wife, parents

1 ? 1/4 wife = 3/4 parents (1/33/4 = 1/4 mother + 2/33/4 = 1/2 father or 12 ratio when no child)

---

So you are saying in this case if deceased has siblings, the only purpose their presence will serve is to reduce mothers share to 1/6 thus increasing father's share.
Has siblings; 1 ? 1/4 wife = 3/4 parents (1/6*3/4 = 1/8 mother + (1/6+ 2/3)*3/4 = 5/8 father or 15 ratio

---

Your examples of Kalalah

Fa-in (ELSE IF) ikhwatun mother share 1/6 consistent when siblings allowed with children (i.e. case of Kalalah with child 412)?

mother, children, siblings (412)
1 ? 1/6 mother ? 1/3 siblings max = 1/2 children

---

So here you are giving mother and siblings 1/2; this portion is more than what would both parents get inheriting with children which is 1/3.

Verse 411 and if he has no children so to his mother is 1/3 but if he has siblings then to his mother is 1/6.
The logic makes the "has no children" the case for asking about presence of siblings, simply because when parents inherit with has children, siblings are not considered.

If has children then - if this statement is true the case ends after completing then clause
To his parents each is 1/6 - mother alone or father alone has no affect on the if condition.
Else if has no children then
If has sibling then
To his mother is 1/6
Else
To his mother is 1/3
End if
End if

If you use the following if then else if cases, the sibling else if case will never be reached because one of the first 2 cases will always be true.

If has children then
To his parents each is 1/6
Else If has no children then
To his mother is 1/3
Else If has siblings then - this case will never be reached
To his mother is 1/6
End If

Your example
mother, siblings (4176)
1 ? 1/6 mother = 5/6 siblings

What if mother + sister; under 4176 and has one sister to her is 1/2. So mother 1/6 and sister 1/2. The question is who gets the remainder, is it the mother or is it the sister and why?

The following Questions are for you to consider
Is mother alone a parent or not?
Doesn't mother alone inherits under 411 and to his parents each is 1/6 if has children?
Doesn't mother alone inherits under 411 and if has no children and being inherited by his parents then to mother is 1/3?
Is it not that part of 411 "but if has siblings then to his mother is 1/6" suggests siblings inherits with parents when deceased has no children?
Doesn't verse 411 meet the 2 conditions, has no children and has siblings?

It makes sense but it is a little strange.

Peace,

You will notice such usage very often in the Quran, It is very helpfull to understand the whole verse.

Can you give me reference where you got this information please

Thanks

Peace,

Arabic is my first Language, I answered as per my understanding and usage of it.

Sorry, I have no ready reference that can help you.

Good luck

Peace uq,

Thank you for your participation.

I agree, one has to keep studying the Quran as the Quran explains itself.

I think to forgive whom He wills is correct as per my current understanding. This is because he who commits the wrong doing can repent and make up for his wrong doing in many forms, however, forgiveness is for God to decide as He wills.

1715 Whoever is guided is guided for himself, and whoever is misguided is for his own loss.

We can will the guidance and seek it in God's book as he has shown us, look and work hard for it to. The guidance is there for us to take on. However, we can only repent, work hard, wish and hope for God's forgiveness.

Forgiveness is from God's goodness while Misguidance is from our own doings.

Peace

Peace mmmouhammad,

411...and to his PARENTS, to each one from them the 1/6 from what he left, if for him was a child

There is no child in those examples; how does the father and mother get 1/6?

You are suggesting distributions are applicable to siblings when verse clearly says to children?

411
he directs you God in your CHILDREN
to the male equal luck the two females
so if they are women over two, so for them two thirds what he left,
and if she was one, so for her the half?

Peace Eid,

Verse 411 but if has siblings then to mother is 1/6 - what do you understand from this reduction of mother's share from 1/3 when has no children to 1/6 when has siblings?.

We both agree that verse 412 is Kalalah with children, that is spouse inherits first, then no parents therefore God allocates to siblings an equal amount to what would have been parents share if they were alive, the 1/3. Compare it to siblings' case in verse 411 read with fresh mind after answering why reducing mother's share 1/6 when deceased has siblings.

By the way, sibling/siblings mean sister or brother 1 to n regardless of gender. The term ikhwatun in Arabic is used when gender and number of sibling are unknown.

The conditions of Verse 411 are applicable in all cases where gender and number of inheritors are not specified. Have you not seen God uses them in both Kalalah verses?

Moreover, aren't deceased siblings mean children to his parents when inheriting with them, so he directs you God in your CHILDREN, is applicable to the inheriting parents and their children "deceased siblings"

Salaam Mahmoud

Verse 12 does not speak of children at all. It starts by the share of spouses, who did not appear in 411. Children's share had been concluded in 411 too.
"If he has a brother or sister to each is 1/6" does not show that he has children. The rest goes to the spouse who is the subject of verse 412. When children were discussed (411) siblings were not mentioned until the end of the verse that discussed parents' share without children.

herefore, kelala is parentless and childless.

Salam Samia,

The shares of the children are shown at the beginning of verse 411, no need to repeat them in verse 412. Likewise parents with and without children and with siblings are shown in verse 411, similarly spouses with and without children are shown at the beginning of verse 412.

God has given us conditions in the three verses that we must evaluate them in logical sequence in order to decide who inherits and calculate shares. One such case is presence of spouse with children and no parents, apparently in your view the spouse will block the siblings, thus braking a bond that God has encourage us to maintain all over the Quran.

Kalalah Verse 412 shows that siblings inherit same as parents when deceased has no parents but has children.

Verse 411 shows that siblings inherit with parents when there are no children; siblings share is what would have been the share of children. In the old days they claimed that God reduced mother's share in verse 411 in order to increase father's share because he is the spender.

The presence of spouse has no affect on other inheritors that is the presence of spouses will not block any of the inheritors. However, the presence of children will reduce spouse share by 1/2 and if spouses are not present, the shares for all other inheritors will increase accordingly.

Spouses are still to inherit first, their share is part of whole inheritance; the share of mother is 1/6 of remainder or 1/8 of remainder and so on for other inheritance. Unjustifiably many participants are still calculating defined shares as part of the whole inheritance which will always lead to problems.

Peace mmmouhammad,

This is an interesting assumption and at least a new view although the same as with examples shown to Samia, cannot have spouse and/or father inherit with siblings ? the shares do not add up and you end up using shares not stated in Qur'an or flipping remainders?

Example case husband, mother, father, daughters, son, sister, brother
1 ? 1/4 husband - 1/6 mother ? 1/6 father = 5/12 siblings and children (cannot distribute)

411 clearly pertains to children not siblings...

he directs you God in your CHILDREN
to the male equal luck the two females
so if they are women over two, so for them two thirds what he left,
and if she was one, so for her the half?

Therefore, siblings get nothing with father or spouse; deceased is not kalala cannot use/enter verse 412 or 4176 to distribute.

Peace

Peace Eid,

I stated in my post where siblings will inherit, point d is an extract were we are in agreement, siblings will not inherit with children and parents.

d. Siblings, being alternative inheritors, they will not inherit when parents and children are present.

---

Please tell me where can you find reference to that the siblings will not inherit with spouse and parents.

By the way, I have run all possible cases and I have change my understanding according to the results. I keep my mind open to all possibilities. Although the case of a spouseless is logically valid, however, after multiple reviews, I found a better placement for it in the logic that negate the spouseless from being part of Kalalah.

peace

We must also take into account similar constructs elsewhere in the Quran.

Example, yu3addibu man yashaa'u wa-yaghfiru li-man yashaa'.

Peace uq,

Thank you for your participation.

I agree, one has to keep studying the Quran as the Quran explains itself.

I think to forgive whom He wills is correct as per my current understanding. This is because he who commits the wrong doing can repent and make up for his wrong doing in many forms, however, forgiveness is for God to decide as He wills.

1715 Whoever is guided is guided for himself, and whoever is misguided is for his own loss.

We can will the guidance and seek it in Gog's book as he has shown us, look and work hard for it to. The guidance is there for us to take on. However, we can only repent, work hard, wish and hope for God's forgiveness.

Forgiveness is from God's goodness while Misguidance is from our own doings.

Peace

Peace Eid,

Peace mmouhammad,

Siblings cannot inherit with spouse and/or father ? have a look at these NOT Kalala cases (i.e. 412 & 4176 cannot enter)?

father, brothers {two unknowns}
mother, sister {two unknowns}

mother, sister, brother {two unknowns}
father, 2 sisters, brother {three unknowns}

wife, mother, father, sister, brother {three unknowns}
1 ? 1/4 wife ? 1/6 mother = 7/12 (father, sister, brother ? how to distribute?)

husband, mother, father, 2 sisters, brother {three unknowns}
1 ? 1/2 husband ? 1/6 mother = 1/3 (father, 2 sisters, brother ? how to distribute?)

Peace

a. Siblings will inherit as alternatives to children along with any or both of their parents.

i. When the deceased has parents but not children, sibling's share will be that of the children divided amongst them as per the conditions at the beginning of verse 411.

ii. This inheritance is confirmed in second part of verse 411. And to his parents to each is 1/6 if he has children so if he has no children then to his mother is 1/3 but if he has siblings then to his mother is 1/6.

iii. As you can see, when has no children but has siblings, the mother's share is reduced back to 1/6; this share is same as if he has children.

Else IF Deceased has no children THEN
? Husband's share is 1/2 ? verse 412
OR
? Wife's share is 1/4 ? verse 412
? IF Deceased has parents THEN
o IF Deceased has siblings THEN
To Deceased's mother is 1/6 ? verse 411
o Else "no siblings; being inherited by parents"
To Deceased's mother is 1/3 ? verse 411
o End IF
? Else IF Deceased has no parents THEN
Kalalah verse 4176 is applied
? End IF
End IF

Accordingly, no share is unknown.

father, brothers {two unknowns} - father 1/6, brother 5/6 verse 411
mother, sister {two unknowns} - mother 1/6, sister 5/6 verse 411

mother, sister, brother {two unknowns} - mother 1/6, sister 1/25/6, brother 1/25/6 verse 411
father, 2 sisters, brother {three unknowns} father 1/6, each sister 1/45/6, brother 1/2 5/6 verse 411

wife, mother, father, sister, brother {three unknowns} - wife 1/4, mother & father each 1/63/4, sister & brother each 1/4 (1/21/2"remainder&quot - spouse use verse 412, rest as per verse 411

husband, mother, father, 2 sisters, brother {three unknowns} - husband 1/2, mother and father each 1/61/2, each sister 1/41/6, brother 1/2*1/6 - spouse use verse 412, rest as per verse 411

Peace

Brothers and sisters,

Please have a look at these verses...

4248

'Insaan' is singular when it affects 'fariha', but afterwards pronoun HOUM(plural) is used to replace it.

Anyone can shed some light here please.

Peace

and when adversity afflicts them for what their hands have delivered is Referring to those who turn away.

4248 But if they turn away, then We did not send you as their guardian. You are only required to deliver. And when We let the human
being taste mercy from Us, he becomes happy with it; and when adversity afflicts them for what their hands have delivered, the human being becomes rejecting.

Peace Layth, all

I posted the following subject a while a go, please have a look when you have time.

Traditional interpretation of the Quran and the Translation of the Message 2nd edition

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598605.0

Peace truthseeker11,

Thank you, I hope so too.

Peace all,

Here are my thoughts after I made a complete review and run all possible logical cases before reaching this conclusion.

Kalalah is the loss of the 2 parents. The Kalil might or might not have children.
.

1. Main inheritors are Spouses, Parents and Children.
2. The Siblings are Alternative inheritors.
   a. Siblings will inherit as alternatives to children along with any or both of their parents.
   i. When the deceased has parents but not children, sibling's share will be that of the children divided amongst them as per the conditions at the beginning of verse 411.
   ii. This inheritance is confirmed in second part of verse 411. And to his parents to each is 1/6 if he has children so if he has no children then to his mother is 1/3 but if he has siblings then to his mother is 1/6.
   iii. As you can see, when has no children but has siblings, the mother's share is reduced back to 1/6; this is same as if he has children.
   b. Siblings will inherit as alternatives to their parents along with children.
   i. When the deceased has children but not parents, Kalalah verse 412, siblings share will be that of the parents, max. 1/3.
   ii. This is confirmed by verse 412 and if he has a brother or a sister to each is 1/6.
   c. Siblings will inherit as alternatives when deceased has no parents and has no children.
   i. This is Kalalah with no children as confirmed by verse 4176.
   d. Siblings, being alternative inheritors, they will not inherit when parents and children are present.

The following if then statements use my current logical understanding of the 3 verses of chapter 4 of the Quran.

? Someone died, who inherits what? ? The following logical cases will cover all possibilities.

IF Deceased has children
? Husband's share is 1/4 ? verse 412
OR
? Wife's share is 1/8 ? verse 412
? IF Deceased has parents THEN
o To Deceased's parents each is 1/6 ? verse 411
o To Children the balance divided as per verse 411
? Else IF Deceased has no parents THEN "Kalalah in 412"
o IF Deceased has a brother or sister THEN
to each is 1/6
o Else IF Deceased has > 2 siblings THEN
Siblings share 1/3
o End IF
o Balance to Children divided as per verse 411
? End IF
Case concluded and inheritance distributed.

Else IF Deceased has no children THEN
? Husband's share is 1/2 ? verse 412
OR
? Wife's share is 1/4 ? verse 412
? IF Deceased has parents THEN
o IF Deceased has siblings THEN
To Deceased's mother is 1/6 ? verse 411
o Else "no siblings; being inherited by parents"
To Deceased's mother is 1/3 ? verse 411
o End IF
? Else IF Deceased has no parents THEN
Kalalah verse 4176 is applied
? End IF
End IF
Case concluded and inheritance distributed.