Which prophet delivered the bible?
God’s scriptures have been delivered by His specially appointed messengers called Prophets such as Noah, Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, David, Moses, John, Jesus and Muhammad, to name a few and other messengers. Since the reason for creation and primary role of all humans is the same, the essence of all scriptures from God is also the same.

However, as per God’s will and knowledge, different communities in different eras have needed different kinds of tests and conditions to fulfill in order to redeem themselves to God. The scripture they received would have all the information required for that. But other than certain laws, rites, practices, examples and other information that were local and relevant to the community that received a scripture, the principles of monotheism and how to lead a righteous life are common to all scriptures from God.

Therefore, the only differences between God’s scriptures are in the laws and information that was meant specifically for the community that received their scripture.

As the human population increased and progressed, God sent additional scriptures in accordance with His knowledge of what each community of people needed at that time to succeed. For some, they would be receiving a scripture for the first time. For others, it would be an update of a scripture sent earlier. This update could contain new, revoked or modified instructions; a reiteration of practices to be continued; or a restoration of some information that became lost or corrupted over time..

The important thing to know about God’s process of sending scriptures in succession is that every community is required to follow the scripture when it comes to them, even if it means no longer following what they were following up till then.

Since the Quran is God’s final message to the human race till the end of the world, GOD has preserved its content exactly as it was from when it was revealed to Prophet Muhammad. Unlike all other scriptures from God which have been afflicted with several distortions or lost some of their content over time, the Quran is the only scripture in existence that is intact, down to every letter. Not a single piece of information is missing or altered from the original Arabic text, the language in which it was revealed.
Following Qoran is following Torah, Zabur , Injeel or any past scripture. It confirms them all.
Since you can read Qoran, it tells you clearly that it is GOD s scripture and guidance for the whole world confirming all other past scriptures.

GOD closed all the arguments about authenticity of past scriptures by sending us a final scripture and preserving it for all coming generations.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

If i want to read the Torah and Psalms i can read an interlinear Hebrew translation. If i want to read the Injeel i can read an interlinear Greek translation. If i want to read the Quran i can read it in Arabic because i know some Arabic.

The Monotheist Group (The Quran A Monotheist Translation)
2285 The messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord; and the believers, all who believe in God, and His angels, and His Books, and His messengers "We do not make a distinction between any of His messengers;" and they said "We hear and obey, forgive us our Lord, and to you is our destiny."

546 And We sent in their footsteps Jesus, son of Mary, authenticating what was present with him of the Torah. And We gave him the Gospel, in it is a guidance and a light, and authenticating what was present with him of the Torah, and a guidance and a lesson for the righteous. 547 And let the people of the Gospel judge with what God has sent down in it. And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the wicked.

568 Say "O people of the Book, you are not upon anything until you uphold the Torah and the Gospel and what was sent down to you from your Lord." And for many of them, what was sent down to you from your Lord will only increase them in transgression and rejection. So do not feel sorry for the rejecting people.

2946 And do not argue with the people of the Book except in that which is better; except for those who are wicked among them; and say "We believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you, and our god and your god is the same; to Him we submit."

Every nation that was send a Book should follow their Book, else they have no bases. It doesn't hurt to read the Books of other nations. The Quran is very clear, God and Muhammad tell the Israelites and Christians to uphold their Books, else they have no bases. God and Muhammad tell the people of the Injeel to judge with it.
Don't try to put out the Light of God with your mouth. If you are not interested in the other Scriptures, then at least respect others who want to read them as well.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because you dont find some books in some areas that does not mean there never were any. Also, who told you that every so called messenger everywhere in the world always brought a book, and that they were written down by someone and they should exist in readable form?

What you have done is made some statements in the pretext of questions based on an absolutely false premise.

How are you going to bring the message to other generations if you were an African messenger (2500 years ago) and if you wouldn't let a Book be written? How are you going to bring the message to other generations if you were a Western white messenger (2500 years ago) and if you wouldn't let a Book be written?

What about people who can't travel to the city of the messenger? What if you came to most Southern place in Africa 2500 years ago? How are people going to hear from you if they are living in other places of Africa? Do you really think narrations are going to be preserved of this message? Same question can be applied to a messenger who came 2500 years ago to a place somewhere in modern Russia..

Brother you are quoting from the bible.
568 IS NOT TALKING ABOUT THE BIBLE.
It is talking about the Torah sent through the prophets of Beni Israel and the Injeel sent through Jesus -GOD s words-.
GOD did not send any prophet with the bible.
Or you mean these scriptures were copied in the bible exactly as GOD sent them?
The verse about Noah was discussed with you here . I disagree with that translation.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Don't worry about me. I know how to read the verse in Arabic and i have faith in both the Torah, Zabur, Injeel and the Quran !

May God guide you.

Please give the verses of Qoran that confirm this for you,quote

"How else do you think human beings started with the lifespan of 900+? Adam became 930 if we read the Torah, Noah became 950 if we read the Torah and the Quran. The first generation of human beings became 900+. But the generations after them started sinning more and more, so that's why their lifespans became shorter and shorted every generation. Read the Torah. Then God said that human beings will not become older then 120 years old in general. All because of us our sins.
You can't ignore this. Or you did not understand the Quran when it says that Noah was 950 years old. The Quran says the Torah and Injeel are a Guidance and Light for a reason. We can find the history of Adam in the Torah, which is being confirmed in the Injeel and the Quran.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

A translation of the Torah - Genesis 55 “And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years and he died.” 58 Altogether, Seth lived a total of 912 years, and then he died. 511 Altogether, Enosh lived a total of 905 years, and then he died. 514 Altogether, Kenan lived a total of 910 years, and then he died. 517 Altogether, Mahalalel lived a total of 895 years, and then he died. 523 Altogether, Enoch lived a total of 365 years. 526 Altogether, Jared lived a total of 962 years, and then he died. 527 Altogether, Methuselah lived a total of 969 years, and then he died. 929 Noah lived a total of 950 years, and then he died. 531 Altogether, Lamech lived a total of 777 years, and then he died.

Genesis 1111 And after he became the father of Arphaxad, Shem lived 500 years and had other sons and daughters. 1117 And after he became the father of Peleg, Eber lived 430 years and had other sons and daughters. 1113 And after he became the father of Shelah, Arphaxad lived 403 years and had other sons and daughters. 1115 And after he became the father of Eber, Shelah lived 403 years and had other sons and daughters. 1119 And after he became the father of Reu, Peleg lived 209 years and had other sons and daughters. 1121 And after he became the father of Serug, Reu lived 207 years and had other sons and daughters.

Etc. Etc. Etc. I have so many more names from the Torah.

A translation of the Quran - 2914 And We had sent Noah to his people, so he stayed with them one thousand years less fifty. Then the flood took them while they were wicked.

2285 The messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord; and the believers, all who believe in God, and His angels, and His Books, and His messengers "We do not make a distinction between any of His messengers;" and they said "We hear and obey, forgive us our Lord, and to you is our destiny."

547 And let the people of the Gospel judge with what God has sent down in it. And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the wicked. 568 Say "O people of the Book, you are not upon anything until you uphold the Torah and the Gospel and what was sent down to you from your Lord." And for many of them, what was sent down to you from your Lord will only increase them in transgression and rejection. So do not feel sorry for the rejecting people.

Peace Jafar.
You say ,quote
"What if you were born when even the script was not yet invented?
What if you were born today within the society where they up until today don't recognize any form of script?"

How did the first humans learn anything? Who taught them?

GOD did not create humans without a good reason. He created for them a place to live and reproduce He created for them all they required for life . He shaped man to the capacity to reason, and taught him things he needs Then GOD sent them His guidance .GOD s guidance was available since the beginning. Man however deviated and innovated false religions.

Do you know a language or a tribe that do not have a word "GOD/creator" in their language?
Do you think the first humans did not need to learn like when you were born as a baby and you were taught what you know now? So who did this for them?

How can you say this, quote
"I've mentioned above that even the notion of "Gods wrote a written material" was first invented by Babylonian religion. Ponder then about the objective on WHY they even invented such concept."

You also ponder how man first walked this earth and where did the knowledge to do anything come from?
GOD bless you.
Pace.

Adam first walked with God and did teach hes children the way of God. Have you ever read the Torah? Adam lived just 6000 +/- years ago.

I believe the universe was created in six periods (billions of years) and that the creatures on earth evolved from a bacteria and after millions of years the evolution brought what it brought us. But i believe that Adam was created out of nothing with water and earth, similarly Jesus was created like that as well and that we were put here on this earth after everything was ready for a habitat that suits us. God showed us that He can create human beings out of nothing.

How else do you think human beings started with the lifespan of 900+? Adam became 930 if we read the Torah, Noah became 950 if we read the Torah and the Quran. The first generation of human beings became 900+. But the generations after them started sinning more and more, so that's why their lifespans became shorter and shorted every generation. Read the Torah. Then God said that human beings will not become older then 120 years old in general. All because of us our sins.

You can't ignore this. Or you did not understand the Quran when it says that Noah was 950 years old. The Quran says the Torah and Injeel are a Guidance and Light for a reason. We can find the history of Adam in the Torah, which is being confirmed in the Injeel and the Quran.

I believe ayat 1047 to be true.

peace

You can believe what you want. But you dodged the question with a simple "i believe it" which is actually sad.

It is a concern for many a people.. But if we look into it deeply we may come to know that God never left people without being sending messengers with glad tidings abd warnings... As brother Tilihawa explained messengers were obviously sent to every umma...

One should pose to himself a question if people were one community once upon a time and in case that community was of Noah /Nuh people that means messengers were sent from the very inception...

People spread throughout the world.. Huge Archealogical evidences prove that in various parts of the world people did live with great empires as well. BTW world has only very few major languages... All other modern day languages are born through a major language... For me only hardly 10 major languages... And identical to it only few races... For these communities God would have definitely sent His messengers...

But the question is why world's leading faiths only the Middle East oriented?
Yes.. That's a relatively fair question... For that all I have to say is... God's messages ended in these areas... All were revealed message but with Jews, Christians and Arabs the prophetic message were ended... That's why in Quran it was fundamentally addressed about jews Christians and Arabs etc...

If No messenger was sent to greater China, that's a huge mistake... If no messenger was sent to do it and central America that's another mistake... If no messenger was sent to Rome and Greek that's too.. If Africa has evidences of ancient cities, then don't discard the fact that Africa would have received Messengers...
Where ever township and their own major language God would have sent messengers.. God never neglected... That's why God reiterates that He sent messengers to all nations...

But where are the Books of the modern Europeans and modern Russians? Where are the Books of the modern Africans? Where are the Books of the modern Asians? If messengers are send to every Ummah?

The white people are even more in number and they are the ones who reject God in general. So where are their messengers and Books? What about the Asian people, they are 2nd? What about African black people?

If i was born in Europe or Russia 2500 years ago, there wouldn't be a religion for me to follow? If i was born 2500 years ago in Asia, there wouldn't be a religion for me to follow? If i was born 2500 years ago in Africa there would be no religion for me to follow?
So i would have to travel like none before to go to the Middle-East or to India to find about God and overcome all traditionalism and nationalism? You know how people are. And to me it would sound strange that an Universal God would only send to a specific region on earth.

Salam musabxus,

In my country, there are many beliefs that are recognized as local wisdom. Many of them have holy books. But there is nothing that can be associated with millata ibrahim, (Islam, Christianity, Judaism).

For example, one of the books called Lagaligo which consists of 6000 pages, believed to be the holy book of the local religion, named Tolotang.

Studying these books will certainly strengthen our insight about the messengers that are not told in the Quran, Injil and the Taurat.

I am one of those who believe that Allah is very fair, He will not punish someone if He will not warn them beforehand.

I used to be very enthusiastic to find traces of the almighty divinity in every teaching that exists on this earth, just to prove the truth of this verse,

1047 And for every ummat is a messenger; so when their messenger comes, the matter is decreed between them with justice, and they are not wronged.

But in the end I found that it was very difficult to find a common thread for those teachings except of the teachings about one God, doing good and the last day (which are should be enough ))

Right now I'm just trying to identify whether they perform the sacrifices in their beliefs,..

2234 And for every ummat We have established rites that they may mention the name of God for what He has provided for them of the animal livestock. Your god is One god; submit to Him and give good tidings to those who obey.

If so, it is one of the signs from Allah, traces of the teachings from the same God.

And then I realized that this has become God's scenario, where every ummah will be judged differently,

2217 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Sabians, and the Nazarenes, and the Magians; and those who were polytheists; God will separate between them on the Day of Resurrection. For God is witness over all things.

Of course we will be judged based on the type of warning we receive.

This separation made me realize that among the many teachings of faith, Allah asked me to focus on what is told in Abraham's teachings,

4164 And messengers whom We have narrated to you from before, and messengers whom We have not narrated to you...;

Indeed, on purpose, there are messenger that are not narrated,

11120 And all We narrate to you from the news of the messengers is to firm your heart. And in this has come to you the truth and a lesson and a reminder for the believers.

because these narrated messengers will strengthen our heart.

However, I believe that the composition of the earth's population today is indeed dominated by the descendants of the children of Israel, and it is very possible that all of us here are descendants of one of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel.

you can see my post regarding that in here called,

Tree of Life

https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610134.msg414805#msg414805

Peace

1047 And for every ummat is a messenger; so when their messenger comes, the matter is decreed between them with justice, and they are not wronged.

Do the white people have no ummat? Do the black African people have no ummat? What about the Asian people and their ummat?

For me, Deva means "heavenly, divine, some being with excellence", and is also one of the terms for GOD in Hinduism.
Deva is a masculine term.

However ,us humans find alternatives like the feminine equivalent is Devi. In the earliest Vedic literature, all supernatural beings are called Devas and Asuras

The modern word Goddess has changed connotations to represent a lesser form of divinity.

So basically, Deva had the meaning we typically think of as the word God
However some Buddhists interpret the view that God was thought to be the Great Mother. Also in some sects of Buddhism Deva's are highly evolved beings who inhabit different levels of existence. Deva's are commonly associated with great beauty and bliss.
Again man adds their own interpretations to GOD s words. like the other religions.

l have only read what you find out there on the internet. Like all other ancient scriptures, one can make of them what they can understand best..Very difficult to check authenticity.
As for general information to decipher, there are many sites like for example
https//www.learnreligions.com/what-are-vedas-1769572

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Thanks, i hope it just means enlightened beings or something. So the devas are the good ones right and the asuras are the bad ones?

Yes it is very hard to read the translations of the Vedas. I couldn't even follow the story. Their translations are so so bad sadly enough. I hope we will find a good one.

I can't believe that the Hindus didn't receive messengers.

Have you read the Buddhist Scripture?

I also wonder where the Asian messengers are. All i have read of them was the Tao Te Ching but it was so short?

My goal is to read all major Scriptures of all nations.

I also wonder where the African messengers are..
I thought God sends to every nation?

Swami Vivekananda interpretations of the Vedas are a bit better than most. He has supported his interpretations with logical explanations.
You may read the works of Swami Vivekananda and decide for yourself if you find them reliable.

Sanskrit is unique and ancient enough that translations just find it too difficult to bring out the inflection and sense sometimes.
This is also very different to so many of the other holy books of other religions. In short, a Sanskrit reading with the Nirukta close by hand would probably help most.
Sanskrit words can often have various meanings, and to further complicate matters, the Vedas contain obscure and even unknown words. The study of nirukta delves into the origins and meanings of these words and the phrases they form, allowing slightly clearer interpretation of the Vedas.

An Indian can probably help you with the translation if you know one.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Thanks, have you found out what the word deva means?

When you read in the Vedas, where do you do that? Can you share a link? Or a pdf?

May God protect us and enlighten us!

Salaam musabxus,
there's a similar question has been discussed in here,

https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611542.msg434561#msg434561

Just let me know your thought handshake

Peace

Thanks!

May God guide us and protect us.

Peace All.
I hope it is the right time to check our religion. Reflecting on who we are and our purpose in this life.
Who do we really serve? Which authority? Why?

You may be surprised to find out that you have actually been serving your creator! But you are not aware of it. Whatever your religion is or you understand it to be!

the word “ Submitter” is the English equivalent of the Arabic word “Muslim,” and the word “Submission” is the English equivalent of the Arabic word “Islam,” the underlying implication of these words is very profound, and far from the superficial meanings that are traditionally understood or used.

A Submitter/Muslim to GOD, can be defined as a person who submits to the will of God. The state of Submission, which can only take place between the person and God Almighty, is considered to be the only acceptable form of following God. (319, 85). Therefore, Submission is not a name of a religion; rather it describes a state of mind of one’s devotion to God alone. It is an attitude towards GOD your creator and all His creations.

Submission is GOD s religion to all mankind, whereby one recognizes God’s absolute authority, and reaches a conviction that only God possesses all power; no other entity possesses any power that is independent of Him. The natural result of such a realization is to devote one’s life and one’s service absolutely to God alone. This is the First Commandment in all the scriptures, including the Old Testament, the New Testament and the Final Testament (The Quran).

Hear, O Israel!
The Lord our God is One God!
Therefore you shall adore
the Lord your God
with all your heart,
with all your soul,
with all your mind,
and with all your strength.

The commandment to follow the religion of God alone is also found in the Hindu scriptures

Let us meditate on God,
His glorious attributes,
who is the basis of everything in this universe as its Creator,
who is fit to be worshiped
as Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniscient
and self existent conscious being,
who removes all ignorance
and impurities from the mind
and purifies and sharpens the intellect.

While every religion has been corrupted by innovations, traditions, and false, idolatrous doctrines, there may be “Submitters/ Muslims” within every religion. There may be Submitters who call themselves Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, or anything else. This is a concept some of the traditional Muslims will fiercely object to, even though it is in the Quran, and we experience it constantly.

They are not all the same; among the followers of the scripture, there are those who are righteous. They recite GOD’s revelations through the night, and they fall prostrate.

One of the reasons for this objection could be due to the implication of the terminology used. For example, the phrase “Christian Monotheist” may seem to introduce a conflict, since the traditional definition of a Christian is one who believes in the divinity of Christ.
However, there are Christians who consider this idea to be blasphemous, and consequently they believe that Jesus was only a messenger of God and His Messiah.
Similarly, there are people in other religions who believe in God Almighty, believe that they are accountable for their works, and they are righteous.
A criterion of the true religion of GOD is that they will find nothing objectionable in the basic Torah, Gospel and Quranic teachings when they encounter them.

All these people are loyal to GOD Alone, and they collectively constitute the only religion acceptable to God.

Say, “We believe in GOD, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs, and in what was given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters.”

Minimum Criteria
There are many more people out there who are Monotheists/Believers in heart, but we may not be aware of them. Furthermore, they themselves may not know where to fit in. How can one know if he or she might qualify to be called a Believer?
The minimum criteria are given in the following verses.

Surely, those who believe,
those who are Jewish,
the Christians,
and the converts;
anyone who
(1) believes in GOD, and
(2) believes in the Last Day, and
(3) leads a righteous life,
will receive their recompense from their Lord.
They have nothing to fear,
nor will they grieve.

The Believers follow the religion of Abraham (16123). It was the religion of Moses and Jesus and Muhammad. It was the religion of all of the prophets and messengers. All of them were Believers and Submitters to God, and God alone.

Submission to God alone is a personal relationship between you and God. You are answerable to Him directly and He alone will judge you. To be a Believer/ Submitter, you do not need to change your name or learn another language, or abandon your cultural identity or anything like that. There is no such thing as a 'Muslim or Submitter name' because your name does not affect your relationship with God.

Believers/Submitters are members of one family. They are allies of one another. They help and support each other as God and His angels help and support them. They are also united in one column when striving in the cause of God.

It is a known fact that all religions of the world—Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and others—have been corrupted one way or another through innovations, traditions, and the idolization of humans such as the prophets and the saints. Many people use religion to justify wars, terrorism, tyranny, and for economic and political gain.

The Believers follow God’s revelations, and obey God’s commandments as well as they can. They follow the truth from their Lord-Only His revelations-, not corrupted religions and man-made doctrines.

Submission/True Islam today is like a precious jewel that is buried under piles upon piles of man-made innovations. Humans have been divided into sects and into enemies by these man made religions

Say, “O followers of the scripture, let us come to a logical agreement between us and you that we shall not serve except GOD; that we never set up any idols/authorities besides Him, nor set up any human beings as lords beside GOD.” If they turn away, say, “Bear witness that we are submitters.”

No Compulsion in Religion
GOD has not asked us to convert anyone to any religion, but only to present the true Islam (Submission) to the world.
God specifically states in the Quran that There shall be no compulsion in religion the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.

May the Lord guide us to true Islam.The state of mind and the true attitude towards GOD,religion and all the creations.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.

The Monotheist Group (The Quran A Monotheist Translation)
2285 The messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord; and the believers, all who believe in God, and His angels, and His Books, and His messengers "We do not make a distinction between any of His messengers;" and they said "We hear and obey, forgive us our Lord, and to you is our destiny."

Keep on spreading the Good News. We should be one and not belong to the groups and sectarians.

Have you find a decent translation of the Vedas? Finding a decent translation of the Bible is not so hard. But it's so hard to find a good translation of the Vedas, most of them i found are full with Sanskrit words..

Salaam Fusion,
Surely there is a certain reason why Allah revealed this verse,

359 The example of Isa with God is similar to that of Adam; He created him from dust, then He said to him "Be" and he was.

Have you ever questioned the creation of Adam? It's also against nature and all scientific evidences we have. If you did, what's your answer?

Here is an interesting quote from the book of Ezra,

2 Esdras
Chapter I

35 Your houses will I give to a people that shall come; which not having heard of me yet shall believe me; to whom I have shewed no signs, yet they shall do that I have commanded them.

36 They have seen no prophets, yet they shall call their sins to remembrance, and acknowledge them.

37 I take to witness the grace of the people to come, whose little ones rejoice in gladness and though they have not seen me with bodily eyes, yet in spirit they believe the thing that I say.

This is all part of God's plan. Since the era of the prophets, we no longer see God's miracles, but of course there are still those who believe in Him.

Peace

The Monotheist Group (The Quran A Monotheist Translation)
2285 The messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord; and the believers, all who believe in God, and His angels, and His Books, and His messengers "We do not make a distinction between any of His messengers;" and they said "We hear and obey, forgive us our Lord, and to you is our destiny."

A translation of the Gospel - Matthew 44 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Keep on using other Scriptures as well! I hope more Quran only believers will realise that the Quran is not the only Scripture we have and that the others can give us Guidance and Light as well.

Anyways, i am thinking that Adam was created out of nothing with water and earth. Similarly was created Jesus? How else could Adam become 930 years old and did all human beings start with the lifespan of nearly 1000 years? Which was being reduced every generation because of their sins? Until God decided that human beings will not become older then 120 in general?
It shows that God can create both with a systematic way (evolution) and create from nothing ?

Are there only Middle-Eastern and Indian Holy Scriptures?

Where are the Messengers of other nations such as the white Western nations Europe and Russia? Where are the Messengers of the black Africans? Where are the Messengers of the Asian nations?

Is religion something that came out of the Middle-East/India? Why are there basically only Books for the Middle-Eastern people, Indians and a minority of the Asian people?
Where are the Books of the white western people and where are the Books of the black African people?