Peace,

Would it be logical to say that a 'translation' of the Quran from it's original Arabic to English is inaccurate and corrupted because the translated version obviously loses the essence of the scripture?

I think experts in Quranic Arabic would answer this question best.

Nural

Peace,

I agree, if the word is left as 'jinn', then the seeker will find the meaning for the word themselves within the Quran.

Nural

Peace,

What's wrong with the logic? The Most High created creation out of nothing, God is separate from us and we have been given the ability to follow our imagination with control (as Ayman's recent articles state) or without control.

To learn how to control we learn, by living and trial and error, until we get results that are pleasing to the Most High.

I personally think the scriptures tells us a bit more than that, although it sounds logical to me but I think it's up to the seeker to search further to complement that understanding because Scripture says a lot more.

Nural

Peace,

Doesn't the Most High remind us in the Scripture to not worry too much about what we consume but to be concerned more with good deeds as opposed to bad deeds.

Amin

Peace,

Although I don't drink coca cola because I don't have caffeinated drink I personally am not convinced that coca cola is some sort of deadly drink.

I haven't heard of any cases of people suffering from problems caused by coca cola, I don't think my government would keep this drink legalised if it was this harmful because it would cause the NHS problems, more problems caused than solved. I personally am not convinced about the snake oil. The only evidence I see is that it has a lot sugar and caffeine and all that is written on the back and the drinker can taste it when they consume the drink, so as far as I am concerned people know very well what they are drinking. Lots of sugar and caffeine.

Lots of sugar and caffeine and poor knowledge about what is good for our body and not is deadly.

Snake oil can be used to clean ball bearings and be used in significant amounts to produce this popular drink? A bit far fetched at the moment because there is no evidence of the harms of snake oil being present.

I have read a book about coca cola, there journey to globalistation was a long and tough one, it used to contain cocaine in it's original recipe until cocaine was made illegal. a Dr Pemberton made the recipe, many tried to compete with similar colas but they were simply not that good.

I personally am trying a few herbal teas by Twinings at the moment, they use herbs that have been used for centuries for aiding digestion, relaxation etc. There are different varieties for different purposes, caffeine free too. They also have antioxidants which are really good for the body.

Nural

Peace,

I think you should post this in the code 19 section of this forum, they might have something to say, they like numbers.

Nural

Peace,

So basically the people of the book is a universal term used to describe any groups of people or class as being the educated ones of their time?

Makes a lot of sense.

Idolfree, I also like your explanation about being 'awakened', it is very similar to being 'educated' but is not the same, one can be awake and responsive to the the signs of the Most High whereas the educated people have bad people amongst them. I think educated fits the verse better because the term awake symbolically might be used to describe a purer state and this wouldn't fit the verse because it doesn't describe the group of people as accurately as the word educated.

Nural

Peace truth,

Very interesting, the meaning derived has more significance in terms of guidance and how to reach eternal bliss.

Drinking is an issue where individuals can use common sense but the mention of hiding motives and taking life too easy is interesting because there should be no reason for a person to hide their motives and goals because they fear none but the Most High.

Hiding motives causes problems for people because they cover the truth with lies, it's a tainted lifestyle and can haunt a person trying to be truthful.

Nural

Peace,

What that doctrine of lucifer thing about? sounds like some small underground wierd stuff just fabricated to put fear in people, people shouldn't fear but our governments think different.

The worlds current situation has been chaotic for a long time, the fighting, the racism, the illegal killings of women, children and elderly.

Trouble in Africa, trouble in the middle east and now there's trouble in the west with all these suicide bombings and the crime isn't getting any better either!

I come to conclude that this is how the world is all the time, battle against two sides, opposing forces. In every example (prophets) within the scripture there is trouble within the communities, whether it is a small community or this global community it doesn't make a difference. Scriptures tell us that God grants victory for the 'believers' (define this term however you will), im just calm to know that good always wins against evil (maybe thats foolish but thats how I am!).

I personally don't like the way people easily label the enemy as one simple entity whether it be Zionists or Islamists, but I think that the enemy is within all our communities, many prophets and messengers were saved from their own communities when the retribution comes and the retribution comes for every community and none can stop that.

This third world war is unclear to me, its hard to see who is in the right because politicians are sneaky and they keep the people in the dark, and when they trust them they sometimes put them in wars for no necessary or reasonable reason and obviously no apparent reasons are given, only propaganda for the people.

nural

Peace,

I think he is saying that why does God seem to show off his attributes, maybe some people don't like that?

maybe the scriptures teach these attributes so that we can learn from them and aspire to be more like that, human nature naturally tries to get closer to the Creator (the Incomprehensible), we try to understand the natural system and phenomenoms in life and the guidance aids us.

Nural

Peace IDM,

Have you got any evidence to disregard this theory?

Nobody said it definately happened but it is one of the better explanations that mankind was 'perfected'.

Nural

Peace Aziz,

Can you tell us more about these things that precisely define a 'jew'?

I respect your interest in the culture, that is your right. But it is something rare to me, one would normally expect something special to cause someone to embrace a faith. A spiritual experience maybe, but from what I gather you just want to join the 'football team' and play on the field, what field? Is it easier to get rich if you are jewish? Do you suddenly get a lot of valuable contacts that help and support you greatly in life?

I am only curious, I do not intend to pressure you in any way for or against your choices, it is your freedom. This sort of thing can be a sensitive subject and I don't intend on winding anyone up.

Nural

Peace,

I disagree with the issue of tax, it helps us here in the UK, just because people don't agree with the current policies of the parties in governement does not change the role tax plays in society, everyone who can contributes, the richer contribute more, ideally. It is not by force, if you don't wish to pay you can leave.

Tax goes towards helping those in need aswell as providing facilites for education, health etc. If there is no tax who will build the weapons? Who will fund research? Do you have better alternatives? if there is no tax who will help those in need (unemployed people), just because there are societies who promote helping each other doesn't mean its wrong. There are British people who willingly, happily pay tax, just because that number is decreasing, it does not mean that it was a bad idea it just means that the people are changing their views or are unhappy about something or they don't know where there money is going. Ideally this system helps us and I don't see the problem, it has worked in the past and continues to work today, if the system is abused then there is a problem.

Maybe when the idea was used successfully communities were closer and understood more, and they weren't conned by crazy politicians!

When you talk about quran, I don't get your point because God grants prophets/kings lots of power and authority over people, if that is mentioned I don't see the problem here, I only see a problem when the ones in these positions of authority abuse their powers.

The power to tax CAN destroy but it won't always destroy, maybe eventually in a cyclic manner because there is always a chance that crazy politicians gain power but when there are responsible rulers then I don't see the issue.

Nural

Peace,

Thank you openurmind, for the clarifying post. Our disagreement came from me understanding life as an individual life, I agree that when we take the global society there is a continous battle between these two forces, good and evil, love and hate etc. Whether the majority is on the hate side or love side is a different discussion.

Certainty is helpful in this journey of life, and certainty is acheived by obtaining valuable and useful knowledge and when applied in the right situations we see the success and the beauty of the game (Very big game, not amusements)!.

But the confusion for people tends to come in understanding why the negative forces even exist if there is a God and why the balance must be acheived to get order and positive results in life. This isn't a free ride, we must give something in return, and it is the duty of the individuals with the knowledge and certainty to maintain a balance, to keep a control of such things. Even the people without elite knowledge have duties in societies, everyone who is capable should work hard in whatever fields they specialise to see a better quality of life. These can be things like governments running the economy properly (whether they should intervene as much or not), or it could be decision making for individuals in their daily lives. Knowledge is very handy for the individual and groups because when they know with certainty what results they can achieve with knowledge of certain techniques or ways then they will be motivated by the reward in the long run.

The assumption has been made that there are simply two paths, a positive and a negative. Although love and hate were used, I think these are not as suitable in explaining the concept as the words positive and negative are.

Nural

Peace openurmind,

I think life does exist without love (sorry to butt in Natu), we can see the results in the news. Life without love is not a happy or fruitful life and you learn less. People who feel better (people in love) tend to do better!

Nural

Peace,

Movies, books and religous texts are a form of art, it is up to us how we interpret it, as for the quran I get the idea that in the end there is only God (First and Last), and that is pure and perfect with no impurity.

Your interpretation of this idea seems depressing and pessimistic, I like to be more positve.

Nural

Peace,

I have not read the whole thread but I have my personal understanding that I would like to share.

To my knowledge marriage as defined in the book is simply a commitement between two people with two witnesses (I am unsure about who these witnesses must be, but I am going to assume two human beings, obviously not the man and woman but people outside the relationship because then it would be a secret love affair between two sneaky people)!

Just because society has made many rituals for this union that does not mean that they are authorised by Divine law, from my experience these are all just traditions and practices made by men and are not a necessity in uniting two people.

Thats my view, its not anti-tradition or outlawish, it is just an observation I have made, i have not seen any kind of formal traditions which are necessary.

There is the concept of 'dowry' to be included too for protection of the woman. So after all this you have to see if you have met the guidelines to continue onto the next stage.

Nural

Peace,

Although many oppressive societies have tried to stop those who love peace throughout time, the love for this cause has survived throughout time to this day. But obviously so has the opposition!

But the idea is that love/good prevails over hate/oppression and all the bad things.

Nural

Peace,

I agree with Albion's initial point about the corruption, the book does refer to the reminder and I personally have not seen the reminder being defined as this particular book, as far as I am concerned the Most High can be referring to the continuous signs that unfold in our world and the Universe aswell as the reminders in history (such as the truths of religious books surviving through time).

I personally disagree with the concept of making a book, any book the ONLY source of guidance, it limits an individuals way of thinking and is not neccessarily the best way to live. Combining knowledge from other signs external from books would give a better grounding on things, plus the quran refers to signs external to the book and encourages the reader to seek by himself and to observe his/her surroundings and current situations.

For example there are stories in the book, and wars mentioned where the minority defeats the majority, throughout time this has happened, an individuals that just accepts without witnessing such an example would not be as certain as someone who spots this phenomenom. Plus the people that can relate situations to the book find better guidance and use for the book.

If you just absorb yourself into a text then your gonna become delusional, you need to keep in touch with reality and use the book to guide you through reality not live in a fantasy world that you have not verified and checked with reality. Blindly believing might be fine for some but certainty is always better for me.

Nural

Peace openurmind,

I think that love like the gravity that holds the universe stable can bring peace and harmony to the societies we have in the world. If man followed the divine system like celestial objects then there would be peace and harmony as intended.

Unlike hate love survives and is stronger.

Nural