The Message - Update
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Peace
One matter which did come-up was that the word
Jinnwas left untranslated.the word 'jinn' is English too, it appears in common dictionaries and etymological ones, though the correct interpretation it another thing, I know.
Main Entry jin?ni
Pronunciation 'jE-nE, 'ji-, j&-'nE
Variant(s) or jinn /'jin/
Function noun
Inflected Form(s) plural jinn or jinns
Etymology Arabic jinnIy demon
1 one of a class of spirits that according to Muslim demonology inhabit the earth, assume various forms, and exercise supernatural power
2 GENIE 2
http//www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=jinnetymonline - jinn
genie
1655, "tutelary spirit," from Fr. genie, from L. genius (see genius); used in Fr. translation of "Arabian Nights" to render Arabic jinni, pl. of jinn "spirit," which it accidentally resembled, and attested in Eng. with this sense from 1748.
http//www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=jinn&searchmode=none -
Peace
One matter which did come-up was that the word
Jinnwas left untranslated.Main Entry jin?ni
Pronunciation 'jE-nE, 'ji-, j&-'nE
Variant(s) or jinn /'jin/
Function noun
Inflected Form(s) plural jinn or jinns
Etymology Arabic jinnIy demon
1 one of a class of spirits that according to Muslim demonology inhabit the earth, assume various forms, and exercise supernatural power
2 GENIE 2
http//www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=jinnThe dictionary of the holy quran (by Abdul Mannan Omar) is more complete.
Abdul Mannan Omar, in his Dictionary of the Holy Quran, has mentioned all the following meanings of the word Jinn
- Genius;
- any hidden thing;
- intense or confusing darkness {LL};
- evil spirits which inspire evil thought;
- germ;
- insect;
- imaginary things whom the infidels worshipped;
- people of different far flung countries living detached from other civilised peoples;
- people who inhabited the earth in pre-historic times,
- subject to no laws or rules of conduct, before the birth of Adam who laid the foundation of the civilisation and Shariah;
- Stalwarts whom Solomon had taken into custody and having subjected them made them work as constructors of huge buildings and who were expert divers;
- Ibn manzur in his Dictionary Liasan al-Arab has quoted a verse of an ancient poet in which he calls his beloved by the word of Jinni.
- Zuhair Ibn Abi Sulma has used the word Jinn for people who are peerless, having no match or equal.
- Tabrizi writes in his book Sharah al-Hamasha that Jinn is a being who is highly potent, shrewd and possessed great powers and abilities;
- whatever conceals, hides or covers;
- whatever remains hidden or becomes invisible;
- such thing or being that remain aloof from the people as if remaining concealed from eyes of the common folk, as Kings and other potentates generally do.
http//www.quranicteachings.co.uk/sura-55.htm
Peace
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Please just leave "Jinn" as it is. There is people like me who view "Jinn" as invisible beings. If its translated as "Leaders/Nobles" or other words I will feel uncomfortable when I read it because 'The Message' is my favorite Quran translation. I think it doesn't really matter if one or two words are left untranslated.
Anyway, I wouldnt mind if "Jinn" is translated as "Gennie". D
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Peace,
I wouldn
t mind usingDemonorGennie` as both would describe the supernatural nature of these beings that were created before man was.If the choice is between jinn and genie, then please keep it as jinn. Genie just sounds a little too 'sitcom'.
On the other hand, IMO 'demon' puts a negative connotation to the word, or 'the supernatural being' as it were, and I don't think this is the case.de?mon
NOUN
An evil supernatural being; a devil.
A persistently tormenting person, force, or passion the demon of drug addiction.I say, leave it as jinn, and let the reader decide what it is. Especially since it can be found in the english dictionary as Elena pointed out earlier.
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Dear Layth
The word Jinn is recognized by Westerners a gennie or demon. So all could be used. However, the cannotation of gennie with Aladdin's lamp and demons with evil (with no exception of righteous deamon), make the first choice, Jinn, more preferrable. However, if you wish to translate it, I suggest one of the followings
Invisible being (See 686; 721)
Elusive being (686; 721)
Creatures of Energy (1027)
Swiftbeing (2710, 39)As for the Salat, I prefer Rashad's translation "contact prayer."
Peace,
Edip -
Salam Edip,
The word Jinn is recognized by Westerners a gennie or demon. So all could be used. However, the cannotation of gennie with Aladdin's lamp and demons with evil (with no exception of righteous deamon), make the first choice, Jinn, more preferrable. However, if you wish to translate it, I suggest one of the followings
Invisible being (See 686; 721)
Elusive being (686; 721)
Creatures of Energy (1027)
Swiftbeing (2710, 39)As for the Salat, I prefer Rashad's translation "contact prayer."
Thank you for the insight on the meaning of Jinn...I personally would prefer the use of one of the meanings provided (perhaps
energy beings) as that is a close translation of what these beings are...However, I think the jury is still out on thisd one.As for Salat, I used to use
contact-methodbut it has been correctly pointed out that this word restricts the meanings and creates a problem in verses such as those in sura 9 that adress the mishrikeen doing Salat. -
Peace,
I agree, if the word is left as 'jinn', then the seeker will find the meaning for the word themselves within the Quran.
Nural
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Peace all,
I have uploaded the minor comments from this thread and some others onto the on-line version of The Message.
I will target handing over the file to the publishers for reprint by this Monday.
If anyone has any additional comments, please state them in the next couple of days or else you will have to wait till the next update is done.
P.S. the main changes were on the subject of Salat using the word
bond/bondingrather than the previous use ofcontact-mthod. You may also want to review the verses on Salat time as I have placed them to the best of my ability on what may be the most accurate representation (see 1778-79, 11114, 2238, 629, 3832)I have left
Jinnas is in Arabic for the time being. -
peace
if i were to buy 'the message' now (of if/when should I buy it) would it be using the numbering system most popular? and these updated wordings or not?
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Salam Imran,
if i were to buy 'the message' now (of if/when should I buy it) would it be using the numbering system most popular? and these updated wordings or not?
The numbering issue was put to bed a number of months ago and the current version on-line as well as the physical book both use the more popular
Hafsnumbering.As for the current changes being incorporated (basically the Salat translation to bond) that will still be some weeks from appearing as a physical book...I will update this thread accordingly when the process is complete.
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Peace,
May God bless you Layth for all your efforts...
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Arnold,
I don't see your article on Jinns (Human Leaders??).
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peace
May God bless you Layth for all your efforts..
I second that.
May He.
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Arnold,
I don't see your article on Jinns (Human Leaders??).
Peace,
Here is the link
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6089.0But i don't believe specificaly means leaders. It has multiple meanings, as walking beings refer to multiple creatures, so does the term jinn=beings/things concealed/hidden, refer to multiple things.
Peace
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Peace,
I prefer to have salat either leave it as untranslated as salat, (like jinn) or leave it as translated as ?contact-method?. Because the scripture loses its meaning with this translation of the term salat ?the bond?. See verse 89 26
?Nor will anyone be able to free his bonds.?
Obviously, I don?t think this is referring to ?salat?.Just a suggestion!
Peacxe, rifat
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Peace Rifat,
I prefer to have salat either leave it as untranslated as salat, (like jinn) or leave it as translated as ?contact-method?. Because the scripture loses its meaning with this translation of the term salat ?the bond?. See verse 89 26
I am open to suggestions on what is the
bestapproach and best word(s) used.I have already posted on the Jinn issue that I am against leaving words untranslated as that defeats the purpose of the translation.
We can revert to
contact-methodand leave the verses of Sura 9 with the wordsbond/bondingor evencommitment? -
Peace,
Layth, is it also not possible you translate it as you want, and put the word salaat between brackets next to the word. So everyone can see the 'bond' aproach, and at the same time people are not turned off, as they still can see where it says salaat.
