The Message - Update
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Salaam
Thanks for the answser.
Salam,
I have another question for you. When you made the base translation for the Progressive Muslims can you provide a list of the English Qur'aanic translations that you used to help you develop your translation?
I remember looking mainly at YUSUFALI, PICKTHAL, SHAKIR and KHALIFA side-by-side.
There was also a fifth translation I used, but I can`t recall the name.
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Refers to QS.33/56 salat means bonds or commitment (not salawat) to prophetr.
QS.24/41 salat means doing anything according to its function (birds are to spread seeds etc).
QS. 8/35 salat means to musreek as only rituals.
QS.4/103 salat means should be promulgated when to be implemented.
Conclusion, shalat shall be bond between mu'meen with prophet in commiting to undertake life according to respective function of Allah's cretures which has to meet Allah's deen, without prophet, implementation of salat means only whistle and claps of hands.
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Salam,
Are there any other comments/changes other than what has been pointed out here on this thread?
If not, then I will take this as an agreement to proceed.
One matter which did come-up was that the word
Jinnwas left untranslated. I have no issue with translating it if a suibtible word can be arrived at that conveys the best meaning of thesealternative beings.Regards,
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Peace,
I rather keep that as jinn, as i believe it refers to something else in every verse it is mentioned, others will believe it is a title. So to keep the translation as approachable as possible for all different minds, i rather have it un-translated. Maybe you can put an explenation in the beginning of the translation about why you left it un-translated and mention the different views people have on it, this you can also do with salat maybe.
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Peace,
So to keep the translation as approachable as possible for all different minds, i rather have it un-translated. Maybe you can put an explenation in the beginning of the translation about why you left it un-translated and mention the different views people have on it, this you can also do with salat maybe.
Keeping words in Arabic defeats the purpose of having a translation.
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Peace,
I understand, but i don't believe they are 'invisible spirits'. You can keep it then a general translation to still keep the wideness of interpretation. Maybe something as concealed/hidden ones/beings. So your and mine and other views are still uphold, with this wide description. The best word must be found...
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Peace,
yes that's the problem. The translation you'll give might give a restrictive meaning which might not be the right one.
Is it existing hidden beings or negative thoughts...there's a world between.
On the other hand - if one really uses his brains, he'll make up his own opinion. So i also suggest to use an encompassing sens - several if needed
lk
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Salam,
Are there any other comments/changes other than what has been pointed out here on this thread?
If not, then I will take this as an agreement to proceed.
One matter which did come-up was that the word
Jinnwas left untranslated. I have no issue with translating it if a suibtible word can be arrived at that conveys the best meaning of thesealternative beings.Regards,
IMHO, the word jinn does not refer to hidden beings, but to the leaders/nobles.
See
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4435.0
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4435.msg63992#msg63992Peace
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Peace
One matter which did come-up was that the word
Jinnwas left untranslated.the word 'jinn' is English too, it appears in common dictionaries and etymological ones, though the correct interpretation it another thing, I know.
Main Entry jin?ni
Pronunciation 'jE-nE, 'ji-, j&-'nE
Variant(s) or jinn /'jin/
Function noun
Inflected Form(s) plural jinn or jinns
Etymology Arabic jinnIy demon
1 one of a class of spirits that according to Muslim demonology inhabit the earth, assume various forms, and exercise supernatural power
2 GENIE 2
http//www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=jinnetymonline - jinn
genie
1655, "tutelary spirit," from Fr. genie, from L. genius (see genius); used in Fr. translation of "Arabian Nights" to render Arabic jinni, pl. of jinn "spirit," which it accidentally resembled, and attested in Eng. with this sense from 1748.
http//www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=jinn&searchmode=none -
Peace
One matter which did come-up was that the word
Jinnwas left untranslated.Main Entry jin?ni
Pronunciation 'jE-nE, 'ji-, j&-'nE
Variant(s) or jinn /'jin/
Function noun
Inflected Form(s) plural jinn or jinns
Etymology Arabic jinnIy demon
1 one of a class of spirits that according to Muslim demonology inhabit the earth, assume various forms, and exercise supernatural power
2 GENIE 2
http//www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=jinnThe dictionary of the holy quran (by Abdul Mannan Omar) is more complete.
Abdul Mannan Omar, in his Dictionary of the Holy Quran, has mentioned all the following meanings of the word Jinn
- Genius;
- any hidden thing;
- intense or confusing darkness {LL};
- evil spirits which inspire evil thought;
- germ;
- insect;
- imaginary things whom the infidels worshipped;
- people of different far flung countries living detached from other civilised peoples;
- people who inhabited the earth in pre-historic times,
- subject to no laws or rules of conduct, before the birth of Adam who laid the foundation of the civilisation and Shariah;
- Stalwarts whom Solomon had taken into custody and having subjected them made them work as constructors of huge buildings and who were expert divers;
- Ibn manzur in his Dictionary Liasan al-Arab has quoted a verse of an ancient poet in which he calls his beloved by the word of Jinni.
- Zuhair Ibn Abi Sulma has used the word Jinn for people who are peerless, having no match or equal.
- Tabrizi writes in his book Sharah al-Hamasha that Jinn is a being who is highly potent, shrewd and possessed great powers and abilities;
- whatever conceals, hides or covers;
- whatever remains hidden or becomes invisible;
- such thing or being that remain aloof from the people as if remaining concealed from eyes of the common folk, as Kings and other potentates generally do.
http//www.quranicteachings.co.uk/sura-55.htm
Peace
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Please just leave "Jinn" as it is. There is people like me who view "Jinn" as invisible beings. If its translated as "Leaders/Nobles" or other words I will feel uncomfortable when I read it because 'The Message' is my favorite Quran translation. I think it doesn't really matter if one or two words are left untranslated.
Anyway, I wouldnt mind if "Jinn" is translated as "Gennie". D
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Peace,
I wouldn
t mind usingDemonorGennie` as both would describe the supernatural nature of these beings that were created before man was.If the choice is between jinn and genie, then please keep it as jinn. Genie just sounds a little too 'sitcom'.
On the other hand, IMO 'demon' puts a negative connotation to the word, or 'the supernatural being' as it were, and I don't think this is the case.de?mon
NOUN
An evil supernatural being; a devil.
A persistently tormenting person, force, or passion the demon of drug addiction.I say, leave it as jinn, and let the reader decide what it is. Especially since it can be found in the english dictionary as Elena pointed out earlier.
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Dear Layth
The word Jinn is recognized by Westerners a gennie or demon. So all could be used. However, the cannotation of gennie with Aladdin's lamp and demons with evil (with no exception of righteous deamon), make the first choice, Jinn, more preferrable. However, if you wish to translate it, I suggest one of the followings
Invisible being (See 686; 721)
Elusive being (686; 721)
Creatures of Energy (1027)
Swiftbeing (2710, 39)As for the Salat, I prefer Rashad's translation "contact prayer."
Peace,
Edip -
Salam Edip,
The word Jinn is recognized by Westerners a gennie or demon. So all could be used. However, the cannotation of gennie with Aladdin's lamp and demons with evil (with no exception of righteous deamon), make the first choice, Jinn, more preferrable. However, if you wish to translate it, I suggest one of the followings
Invisible being (See 686; 721)
Elusive being (686; 721)
Creatures of Energy (1027)
Swiftbeing (2710, 39)As for the Salat, I prefer Rashad's translation "contact prayer."
Thank you for the insight on the meaning of Jinn...I personally would prefer the use of one of the meanings provided (perhaps
energy beings) as that is a close translation of what these beings are...However, I think the jury is still out on thisd one.As for Salat, I used to use
contact-methodbut it has been correctly pointed out that this word restricts the meanings and creates a problem in verses such as those in sura 9 that adress the mishrikeen doing Salat. -
Peace,
I agree, if the word is left as 'jinn', then the seeker will find the meaning for the word themselves within the Quran.
Nural
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Peace all,
I have uploaded the minor comments from this thread and some others onto the on-line version of The Message.
I will target handing over the file to the publishers for reprint by this Monday.
If anyone has any additional comments, please state them in the next couple of days or else you will have to wait till the next update is done.
P.S. the main changes were on the subject of Salat using the word
bond/bondingrather than the previous use ofcontact-mthod. You may also want to review the verses on Salat time as I have placed them to the best of my ability on what may be the most accurate representation (see 1778-79, 11114, 2238, 629, 3832)I have left
Jinnas is in Arabic for the time being. -
peace
if i were to buy 'the message' now (of if/when should I buy it) would it be using the numbering system most popular? and these updated wordings or not?
