The Message - Update

unknownuser

Peace Layth

It would be nice if you answered my question. What is the significance of changing the translation from contact-method to bond?
Thanks Sis Elke for your reply, hopefully i could find out from him an explanation.
Peace All

Layth

Peace,

It would be nice if you answered my question. What is the significance of changing the translation from contact-method to bond?

Sorry, I overlooked your question in my responces.

The argument put forth by Wakas is that Salat is an ubmrella word which means different things in the context it is placed...

For example

When speaking to the Mumineen, it means the 2 unit Salat as we identify it that requires abulution, reading the Scripture specific times, etc.
When speaking about the birds, it means their intinctive knowledge to fulfil the requirement to praise God in their own way.
When speaking of the Mushrikeen/idolators in chapter 9, it means them fulfilling their obligations that they gave not to betray the believers and not to conspire against them.

Therefore, if we used only contact-method, then we create a dilema in the verses that are not talking about the specific Salat that is meant to be carried out by the mumineem. However, when we use the literal translaiton of bond/link/obligation then the reader can see the meaning being given based on the context of the verses/situation.

unknownuser

Peace all,

Also, I think the numbering of verses should be reinstated as before. With all due respect as to how and why you have come to your conclusions on the verse numberings and order, it is still an inescapable fact that those who claim to follow the qur'an are familiar with the standard verse numbering, and thus, makes for much more conveniant referencing when having discussions with others about the qur'an and it's verses.

This has already been done nearly 2-3 months back...If you check the on-line version of The Message you will see it follows the old Hafs numbering.

Oh I see, I guess I stand corrected. -X

Salaam,
Damon.

Elke

Peace layth,

reading your above post, the sens of commitment - obligation would imo fit fine in each case - at least the three you mentionned. But bond as well...

Is there a specific reason you chose bond above the other meanings ?

lk

SwedenMajidah

Peace all,

Bonds seems totally OK to me atleast better than contact- method.

Sis Maria

unknownuser

peace,

do we ever use the term "contact-method" in real life? i know we use the term " the bond" for exampleJames Bond, Chemical bond, relationships etc...) D

who coined the term "contact-method"?

peace, rifat

Al_Khidr

As Salaamu Alaykum Layth

I have another question for you. When you made the base translation for the Progressive Muslims can you provide a list of the English Qur'aanic translations that you used to help you develop your translation?

Salaam

Layth

Salam,

I have another question for you. When you made the base translation for the Progressive Muslims can you provide a list of the English Qur'aanic translations that you used to help you develop your translation?

I remember looking mainly at YUSUFALI, PICKTHAL, SHAKIR and KHALIFA side-by-side.

There was also a fifth translation I used, but I can`t recall the name.

Al_Khidr

Salaam

Thanks for the answser.

Salam,

I have another question for you. When you made the base translation for the Progressive Muslims can you provide a list of the English Qur'aanic translations that you used to help you develop your translation?

I remember looking mainly at YUSUFALI, PICKTHAL, SHAKIR and KHALIFA side-by-side.

There was also a fifth translation I used, but I can`t recall the name.

lovelymoslems

Refers to QS.33/56 salat means bonds or commitment (not salawat) to prophetr.

QS.24/41 salat means doing anything according to its function (birds are to spread seeds etc).

QS. 8/35 salat means to musreek as only rituals.

QS.4/103 salat means should be promulgated when to be implemented.

Conclusion, shalat shall be bond between mu'meen with prophet in commiting to undertake life according to respective function of Allah's cretures which has to meet Allah's deen, without prophet, implementation of salat means only whistle and claps of hands.

Layth

Salam,

Are there any other comments/changes other than what has been pointed out here on this thread?

If not, then I will take this as an agreement to proceed.

One matter which did come-up was that the word Jinn was left untranslated. I have no issue with translating it if a suibtible word can be arrived at that conveys the best meaning of these alternative beings.

Regards,

arnoldyasin

Peace,

I rather keep that as jinn, as i believe it refers to something else in every verse it is mentioned, others will believe it is a title. So to keep the translation as approachable as possible for all different minds, i rather have it un-translated. Maybe you can put an explenation in the beginning of the translation about why you left it un-translated and mention the different views people have on it, this you can also do with salat maybe.

Layth

Peace,

So to keep the translation as approachable as possible for all different minds, i rather have it un-translated. Maybe you can put an explenation in the beginning of the translation about why you left it un-translated and mention the different views people have on it, this you can also do with salat maybe.

Keeping words in Arabic defeats the purpose of having a translation.

arnoldyasin

Peace,

I understand, but i don't believe they are 'invisible spirits'. You can keep it then a general translation to still keep the wideness of interpretation. Maybe something as concealed/hidden ones/beings. So your and mine and other views are still uphold, with this wide description. The best word must be found...

Elke

Peace,

yes that's the problem. The translation you'll give might give a restrictive meaning which might not be the right one.

Is it existing hidden beings or negative thoughts...there's a world between.

On the other hand - if one really uses his brains, he'll make up his own opinion. So i also suggest to use an encompassing sens - several if needed

lk

wildguest1956

Salam,

Are there any other comments/changes other than what has been pointed out here on this thread?

If not, then I will take this as an agreement to proceed.

One matter which did come-up was that the word Jinn was left untranslated. I have no issue with translating it if a suibtible word can be arrived at that conveys the best meaning of these alternative beings.

Regards,

IMHO, the word jinn does not refer to hidden beings, but to the leaders/nobles.

See
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4435.0
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4435.msg63992#msg63992

Peace

Elena

Peace

One matter which did come-up was that the word Jinn was left untranslated.

the word 'jinn' is English too, it appears in common dictionaries and etymological ones, though the correct interpretation it another thing, I know.

Main Entry jin?ni
Pronunciation 'jE-nE, 'ji-, j&-'nE
Variant(s) or jinn /'jin/
Function noun
Inflected Form(s) plural jinn or jinns
Etymology Arabic jinnIy demon
1 one of a class of spirits that according to Muslim demonology inhabit the earth, assume various forms, and exercise supernatural power
2 GENIE 2
http//www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=jinn

etymonline - jinn
genie
1655, "tutelary spirit," from Fr. genie, from L. genius (see genius); used in Fr. translation of "Arabian Nights" to render Arabic jinni, pl. of jinn "spirit," which it accidentally resembled, and attested in Eng. with this sense from 1748.
http//www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=jinn&searchmode=none

wildguest1956

Peace

One matter which did come-up was that the word Jinn was left untranslated.

Main Entry jin?ni
Pronunciation 'jE-nE, 'ji-, j&-'nE
Variant(s) or jinn /'jin/
Function noun
Inflected Form(s) plural jinn or jinns
Etymology Arabic jinnIy demon
1 one of a class of spirits that according to Muslim demonology inhabit the earth, assume various forms, and exercise supernatural power
2 GENIE 2
http//www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=jinn

The dictionary of the holy quran (by Abdul Mannan Omar) is more complete.

Abdul Mannan Omar, in his Dictionary of the Holy Quran, has mentioned all the following meanings of the word Jinn

Genius;
any hidden thing;
intense or confusing darkness {LL};
evil spirits which inspire evil thought;
germ;
insect;
imaginary things whom the infidels worshipped;
people of different far flung countries living detached from other civilised peoples;
people who inhabited the earth in pre-historic times,
subject to no laws or rules of conduct, before the birth of Adam who laid the foundation of the civilisation and Shariah;
Stalwarts whom Solomon had taken into custody and having subjected them made them work as constructors of huge buildings and who were expert divers;
Ibn manzur in his Dictionary Liasan al-Arab has quoted a verse of an ancient poet in which he calls his beloved by the word of Jinni.
Zuhair Ibn Abi Sulma has used the word Jinn for people who are peerless, having no match or equal.
Tabrizi writes in his book Sharah al-Hamasha that Jinn is a being who is highly potent, shrewd and possessed great powers and abilities;
whatever conceals, hides or covers;
whatever remains hidden or becomes invisible;
such thing or being that remain aloof from the people as if remaining concealed from eyes of the common folk, as Kings and other potentates generally do.
http//www.quranicteachings.co.uk/sura-55.htm

Peace

jankren

Please just leave "Jinn" as it is. There is people like me who view "Jinn" as invisible beings. If its translated as "Leaders/Nobles" or other words I will feel uncomfortable when I read it because 'The Message' is my favorite Quran translation. I think it doesn't really matter if one or two words are left untranslated.

Anyway, I wouldnt mind if "Jinn" is translated as "Gennie". D

Layth

Peace,

I wouldnt mind using DemonorGennie` as both would describe the supernatural nature of these beings that were created before man was.