I think my meditation has taken me to a point where I understand jinn very well.

Jinn/spirits, seem to be ghosts of unreal concepts. (aka idols, assigning infinity to universe, claiming random origins, etc) However in a divine mind, that can cause quite some perplexion. Therefore they may delude their believers into etablishing belief in them. Ultimately one can understand that that would cause hellfire. Absolute belief, in the unreal, and unnatural behaviour.

Belief in multiple gods ultimately is a self-defilation on par with sexual abuse.

On a lesser scale, feelings of promiscuity, and satan is the spirit of promiscuity. Typically when watching disbelievers popmusic, for instance. Note, I am not saying music is illegal, but it depends on who writes it. Feelings like that clearly is satan, when the other does not respect a relationship of trust, and simply goes on to the next "lover".

A spirit free and peaceful mind, seems to come from correct dualistic (non-pantheistic) monotheistic teachings.
Correct monotheistic belief, leads to a gradual purification of the mind. Prayer contains the most essential elements of faith, and therefore we talk of prayer and purification. One can also meditate on aspects of the creator, ultimately believing in it, and making it a part of ones monotheistic life.

Peace.

Worship them instead, you Jafar.

God decides on the day of judgement.

Peace.

Or ofcourse if the you prefer the names/attributes God, or Allah, or The Allknowing or The Compassionate. To each their taste.

For instance "Allah is the decider of everyones destination".

Peace.

"muslim object of reverence".

There is no such thing. "muslim" means surrender to God. He only worships God.

The Cube is Abrahams house. Muslims bow there because that is where the message and religion originated.

The reactions I got, more than 7 years ago probably now, when I first enganged them, coming to their website having followed the Quran for a few years, loving God, even crying when I read the Quran because I found it to be so beautiful, they called me disbelievers, would not listen to logic about satan, did not accept homophilia as bad, told me to "fill your heart with the love of sahaba", and me thinking that wasn`t God enough.

And then they threatened to take away my priveledges in the forum, and give access to "disbelievers" only.

And then they banned.

I tried going back there, but same thing, only mentioning "following Quran Alone" got me banned.

Later I met them on a social network local to Norway.
One moderator talked about "being an idol to their children".
Another had hasish-smoking nuns on their profile.
Their imam is frequently making rabid statements.
The ones who banned me in the forum, make "cool guy" ban statements.
Another imam in the forum says "I am not of the saliheen (godconscious)", all of the quran, and prayers are so you shall be godconscious.
that social network did close down, due to much unserious activity.
I met them in another social network now defunct also, where again I was banned for defending Quran Alone. A much stronger feeling of sectarianhood athmosphere there. I could almost feel how their feared their imams, and couldnt say anything. And like they didnt know the country around them, and democratic prinicples, of freedom of speech, and freedom of religion.

Other than these, I see on youtube that some sectarians take the teachings of satan seriously, and that is good.
Then again you see muslimvlogguy and he is an ignorant provocateur. He is probably worshipped and lashes out agains Quran Aloners, because they don`t worship him.

I have however looked a bit at Iran lately, and I am getting some good vibes.
In Norway people react on this country, but I see so many good things.
First of all hadith, don`t seem that central there. And even if they are followed, they also include statements on intelligence.

• No interests in their banks.
• Drugbarons are executed. (imagine they complain about that here)
• Gays are executed. (They harassed me for years on the internet, I can only imagine a place without them being wonderful.)
• Ofcourse they have and know the Quran. Which for serious people, should mean intelligence, non-promiscuity, morality, familyvalues, etc.
• I am going to go there, when I get the money. I might travel to other muslim countries too. We`ll see.a

Even in wahabbi Saudi-Arabia I can see people with sense. They sendt back an extremist to norway, on 9/11-2011, that talked about a new 9/11 on norwegian grounds. I interpreted that as giving that day a better name, by working against an extremist.

I am going to do some more research though, and when time and money allows I am going to travel abit. There are probably good people in this country, that arent enemies of Quran-followers. Even if it should be a problem, I dont need to make a big political fuss, and make it known. I just want to see some culture based on the Quran

Ofcourse if they turn out to be like the sectarians in the forums over here, its going to be a big dissapointment. But people cant all be taht stupid.

If someone would do irrational things because of hadith, I could not tolerate it. Neither if someone claimed I needed to believe in hadith for Islam. Or nineteen, or any other association. Or failure to comply with Quranic morality, such as avoiding promiscuity, homophilia, intoxicants, etc. Or stupid intepretations claiming that the celluar phone or computer, is "the beast of the earth" etc.

Or explainig away heaven and hell, or jinn or anything in the Quran really. And abusing verses and showing little understanding of them. Believers are believers, and shaytans are shaytans. ETC.

Peace.

"Ive had some spiritual experiences Id call gnosis". Lol.
Well I started using the term here, so I guess I should purify that abit, but not without also becoming mystical.

Fighting against satan, gives you gnosis. Going with satan, obscures gnosis.

Now it is up to however of you is the best, to pursue it.

You are completely incoherent. The thread title is Allah is satan. And you called Allah demiurge just recently in your post. And you used the same demiurge, in another thread I talked to you. You use the name lucifer which is about a "fallen angel". Which I refuted. And I am not the one creating fitna. Provcations coming from a man with a thread title "Allah is lucifer". That is fitna.

No dont bother replying, its not going to change my views anyway. Its SWILL and so was your post, in another thread I talked to you.

Christians have their own phenomena in the form of "tonguespeaking". That is also inchoherent speech that does not contain religious teachings, that is suppsedly related to religion.

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3be9wCAwIM (050) 19x59 19x32 .. 19x34..

As-Salaam Alaikum

I choose the word Allah over God because Allah is most proper. Allah for one is above simply being a god and secondly the word god denotes gender (male, goddess being the female alternative). The word Allah is genderless.

The belief that Jesus was not human at all is only in one school of Gnostic thought. There are many different schools of Gnostic thought. The Gospel of Thomas fully supports the idea that Jesus was only human and not divine.

Also, I think it is a misunderstanding people have with the Gnostic position on the material world. I don't think they believed the actual material world was evil but rather just an illusion, basically like the Islamic concept of the Dunya. They rejected materialism more so than believing everything material was evil for we can use logic and come to the conclusion that if they literally believed everything material was evil, what would have stopped them from killing themselves to escape the material world? So I think it is a misunderstanding as Parodox pointed out.

Parodox, I wish you had read the entire OP before responding and you would have seen that we are basically saying the same thing only in two different ways. The gnostic position (well atleast my personal interpretation of it) is not that the demiurge is a god along side Allah or that Allah is even a demiurge; far above be Allah from such blasphemy. The demiurge is nothing to be worshipped and really the concept behind the demiurge represents man made power i.e. the governments of today as I pointed out in my OP. There is only One true Power behind all, and that is Allah, but Allah is obviously not the god as understood in man made religions. This distorted view of the Most High is what gnostics refer to as the demiurge. I agree completely with you with what you said about gnosis being the root of all religions and knowledge of Allah.

If you go back and read my OP I think you will find that what we appear to be in disagreement about here we are actually in agreement with. The differences in our views is like myself saying a half glass of water is half full while you say the glass is half empty. We are really saying the same thing, only using two different analogies and wording.

I have to ask many of you that seem to be against the idea of Gnosticism, have you actually sat and read the text for yourselves?

We are not at all talking about the same. Allah is allah, as defined in the Quran. Satan is satan. The story of "the fall of lucifer" isn`t correct with regards to the claim that it is an angel that becomes evil. There is no such thing as an evil angel.

Angels do the commands of Allah. Not shaytan. Shaytan is a polytheist. The angels are constantly conscious of God (monotheism / dualism (mind/body dualism) - this is the only view that fits with the omnipresent invisible God of the quran) And being conscious of God protects against spirits (and shaytan)

And as you see from my logic thread, God is a completely logical, logical extreme. No demiurge, and this description of God is not a demiurge. God is knowable, and known on Judgement Day.

And it is a pefect creation, and a perfect system based in allknowingness, and a perfect divine rule, by the one perfect divine arranger.

When you remove "intelligent design" you have incoherent noise left. aka random, or "white noise" it is a logical impossiblity, not only because it is said to be physical and come from nowhere, but because white noise does not create anything. To say that the universe is a random number sequence, and still claim it is logical and coherent, and ofcourse meaningful, is ofcourse incoherent.

ParadoxEternal for 6 timer siden

Svar

@ParadoxEternal

First sentence..."when you remove intelligent design you have incoherent noise left."

No. You have an ordered universe with an unknown origin, to which our brains have adapted. I don't go further when the first sentence in a post is a semantic mess.

EGarrett01 for 5 timer siden

@EGarrett01 You did not understand. Let me restate, when you remove intelligent design, you have incoherent noise left. Not "an ordered universe with unknown origin". Apparently you have picked up some phrases about semantics, and fail to use them correctly. Ofcourse anyone believeing in incoherent noise, is bound to have some problems with intelligence.

ParadoxEternal for 1 sek siden

The superior atheist logic. Have a laugh, maybe he responds more. http//www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=HUoHu2JE3Xs

If it`s true that you are a social worker, I can only feel sorry for your clients.

I think I`m going to start a forum of my own, as a service to Quran-followers. So anyone who agrees with my posts, can come there, and avoid these lowest-of-wits. And if they try come there, they shall surely be banned. Check my www, in a few weeks or so.

Tired of this trashmoderation.

These satans can sit here with their incoherent logic, and incoherent meaning.

Some of these people cannot stop talking. I experienced this quite recently too.

I discussed with a gay, he started talking about dogs feces, I stopped talking to him, he subscribed to my channel. I took him off the subscriber list. He starts sending me messages. I block him. He is still sending me messages. I block him again. He sends messages again, and I tell him that he is being sick and provocative. The exchange ends with that he claims that I should stop, and says the he blocks me.

This is often what I experience with gay people.

Ofcourse another very provocative aspect of these people are that they call you gay and homophobic, because you don`t like gay.

Heres what happened recently in Norway, to someone who claimed gayness on the behalf of people who stated they didn`t like gay, and therefore was homophobic, which again is gay. That might work on the internet, but in reality this is what happens to stupid idiots like this.

http//www.dagbladet.no/2012/01/02/nyheter/innenriks/homofili/vold/19640606/

Ofcourse it`s best not to be provoked by satans. They start wars at all costs, that leads to their own death. That is satanic strategy in a nutshell.

However I can ofcourse fully understand for instance Irans deathpenalty on gays. They don`t stop until that.

Here Iran is critizised again for executing drugbarons that make money on making people addicted to drugs. http//www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/artikkel.php?artid=10075302

"the bad iranian priesthood".. lol.. I am so looking forward to visiting Iran when I get the money.

"the superior atheist logic"

Atheism The claim that physical whitenoise came out of nowhere, without need for explanation, created the world. The claim that atheism is belief in nothing, however nothing does not exist according to physicalism.
The belief that mindless random whitenoise, in the form of a random number sequence, IS the universe.
The belief that mindless random whitenoise, not intelligent design, created the species and evolved them, and claiming that we are biological machines. While if we fill a computer with white noise, a universe or humans does ofcourse not appear.
The polytheism that whitenoise created the world, while still praising other forces such as science, medicine etc. The polytheism that one is two-brainhalves rather than one soul.
The inconsistency that there is meaning with whitenoise, and claiming a purpose for life, when it is incoherent randomness.

Atheist, So you are meaningless purely physical whitenoise. So now go praise your science, because ofcourse they are superior to their creator.

I guess this is posion enough to make you more mentally ill, depressed and if not kill yourself, live your life in misery.

And justice is done.

Maverick.. )

This first principle you talk about is God. And by rejecting logic, you claim that Gods creation is illogical, and Gods rule itself is illogical.

God is just. People will have only what they have worked for. Those who give their life to God, will have their recompense. Those who desire the life of the world, will have that, at the expense of the next life.

If this is not your first principle, you are not a monotheist.

You are ofcourse severly incoherent, in claiming that atheist logic is superior, and then going on to say that logic is only a creation.

But the truth is eternal, and God IS the truth. So to speak the truth, is to speak the eternal knowledge, and eternal logic.

God is not subject to anything, but everything is subordinate to him.These are rules and logic.

Now as I said, stop posting messages to me about how you find this logic to be non-existant. I find it offensive, and when you grow spiritually to understand this yourself, you will be ashamed of going against this. If you are at all a monotheist. Ofcourse a monotheist would not say what you are saying. This is disbelief on your behalf. Which way you want to go is ofcourse up to you.

In no way is this obsession with numbers a reason to call someone ungrateful/unappreciative.

I loved God, yet they call me unappreciative. What is the difference between that and some hadithist that calls me a disbelievers because I dont have mental self-defiling firespirit lust orgy with their satans in the hadith.

There is no first principle other than God, Maverick. That is satan speaking his kufr.

Are you another atheist pretending to be a monotheist? It seemed to be all the rage on yahoo for a while. Jews pretending to be muslims, muslims pretending to be jews, atheist pretending to be christians, probably someone pretending to be buddhists aswell. Hmm I did not see buddhists pretending to be anyone else. (!) We simply must know what is in their teachings that prevented this!

Kidding aside, the kant philosophy claimed by "maverick monotheist" is similar to atheism. Claiming no logical coherence, while everyone can observe logical coherence.
You see with logical coherence, you have intelligent design. Without intelligence design there is just incoherence, randomness, white noise.

Amazing that this should be so hard to understand. But there you have the illogical disbeliever. Shit comes out of satans eyes and ears when he hears logic, until he has vomited out the next generation of idolaterous religion. And ofcourse covers over holy texts with his feeble writings.

God is both transcendent and immanent Maverick. That is the divine eternal.

Again you do not understand my argument, and the idea that humans have no logical basis for what they do is very dark. I do not think like that. I doubt very much "everyone" thinks like that. If someone disgregards this logic, it is simply because they lack the capacity to understand that it is the only logical possibility.

And please no more answers, justifying other views. I am not interested in them. I comprehend the argument, and I am not "wrestling" with it, as you stated in another post. It is clear, it is logical, and there is no other logical possibility. Maybe when you mature, you will understand this argument, inshaAllah.

Peace.

Peace,

I do. If you take cause and effect out of it, it no longer bears much resemblance to Aristotle's proposition. Immanence/transcendence creates similar problems. It is a catch-22 argument. If God is immanent, then why does he allow suffering and injustice? If God is transcendent, we are still faced with the question of the origins of matter, and whether or not there are any practical ramifications to a god who is not present in what we call reality. There simply is no good logical solution to the question, and it is still an a priori discussion, which atheists and agnostics will not entertain until you push them on the absurdum of empiricism. Like I said, most people just don't think like the post-Socratic Greeks any more. Maybe it is a good thing, maybe it is a bad thing, I don't know. But people just don't debate ideas in this manner any longer. Since Kant, no one has assumed that pure logic and reason are possible for humans.

If you are looking for arguments for God that have some weight in postmodern cultures, Kierkegaard's "Fear and Trembling" is good. It is a short read, but it is from the vantage point of a Christian, albeit a very non-traditional one. There is a Muslim philosopher that wrote a work on Nietzsche's "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" and the yes-saying prophet and how that relates to the life of Muhammed. He draws from the hadiths since he is a traditional Muslim, but he does at least show Islam in relationship with the most famous (or notorious) existentialist. I can't remember his name, but if you are interested I'll look around and see if I can find it.

Peace.

I make a point of separating gnosticism from "demiurge" texts etc. It is also called gnosticism but the universal understanding of gnosis is what I have pointed out in my previous post in this thread. I think the difference is important, because gnosis is used about knowledge of God, even today, and should be deassociated from these demiurge-teachings. Gnosticism is then about gnosis. For instance, not long ago it was common to name Buddhism, a gnostic direction. The hippies also use the term "gnosis". In more recent times, buddhism in popular culture here, is called atheism, or belief in "no god or all gods". Which ofcourse is incompatible with Buddhanautre being allknowing, and allknowingness can only be one force.

Gnosis, is at the root of any true religion. That is why the same god and same phenomena is reported everywhere, independently in history, back to the oldest known times. You always have "breath of life", which is Zi in animism. Even the pharaoes had "Ankh" as the lifeforce. Ofcourse with many distortions and additions. In hinduism atman is brahman, judaism ruach "breath of life", which is Ruh in Islam.

There are "gnostic" themes in the Quran aswell.

7. He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

"those who are firmly grounded in knowledge". I know other verses also talk about knowledge, and that God can give knowledge of himself to anyone he wants. Mohammed (pbuh) was ofcourse a gnostic. And khidr was "taught by the prescence of God".

Gnostic "demiurge" texts, also deal with that the world is negative.
But you have this statement in the Quran aswell.
For instance 143 to those who have chosen the life of the world in preference to the Hereafter, who hinder people from the Way of Allah, and seek to make it crooked. They have gone far astray.

I do believe that was the original understanding, before those "gnostic" texts got distorted.

note even though I mention hippies here, I do not condone LSD use, or any other similar drug/intoxicant. It is of satan and forbidden in the Quran. I do however respect shamanic culture, and that they believe it is of value, but it is not my way of life.