There is no proof for its divinity.

Mathematical analysis of the text shows it is the work of at least 30 different authors (possibly even as much as 100).

Stylistic elements, political context, evoked topics show the text was written during a period of more than 200 years.

See the work of Walter Jean-Jacques, Le Coran r?v?l? par la Th?orie des Codes, ?ditions de Paris, juillet 2014

Even the Quranic text speaks for itself concerning its divinity.

(2849) Sahih International Say, "Then bring a scripture from Allah which is more guiding than either of them that I may follow it, if you should be truthful."

This is not speaking about one book, cause it uses "either of them". It is referring to at-tawra wa l-inj?l, the Torah and Injil. Not the Quran.

Add to this the Quranic "satanic" verses. If Quran is divine polytheism is alright coz God says so and thus being self-contradicting?

Have ye thought upon Al-Lat and Al-?Uzz?
and Mant, the third, the other?
These are the exalted gharniq, whose intercession is hoped for.

Then look at the content which show a very limited understanding of biology and the universe (attributing thought to the human heart, fixed stars, flat earth,...). Look at the fiction in Quran which recounts the fable of Alexander building a gate against Gog and Magog.

People still believing this text has divine origin in 2017? Lul. The inimitability of Quran was already disputed by arabs of the 8th century. (See Rippin Andrew, Muslims, Vol.1, London /New York, Routledge, 1990, p.26-27.41. and Urvoy Dominique, Les penseurs libres dans l?Islam classique, Paris, albin Michel, 1996, p.55-58.)

I think your translation of is quite accurate. It makes sense to me.

occurs in reference to Thamud and 'Aad in chapter 69. According to professor Eisenmann (an expert on the dead sea scrolls), Thamud and 'Aad refer to Edessa ('Aad) and the conversion of that place to christianity by the apostle Thomas (Thamud). Edessa became an important centre of syriac christianity very early on (mass conversions). In 201 the city was devastated by a great flood. This is what Quran is referring to. The flood is explained in the Quran as a local apocalypse- a preview of judgment day if you like, similar to that of sodom and gomorrah - a punishment from God for those who rejected and turned back.

This is a very brief summary of Eisenmans understanding, if you are interested in a more elaborate explanation of 'Aad and Thamud go to this link

I think the rest of your translation fares poorly. You removed the obvious references to Hell and Hellfire which are by principle always key elements in the quranic accounts of destruction and apocalypse. Quran uses natural disaster repetitively as metaphors for hell/apocalypse/judgment day.

Salam,

So how are we supposed to take back the Temple as is said in Quran?

We don't even have a leader, and we aren't that unified yet. Maybe it's not in our lifetime? Are there any more information in Quran regarding the believers retaking the Temple?

This is just speculating. What do you think?

Answering your initial question. I don't think the point is to take it back. Quran promised the believers would take it back (from the byzantine Romans) which they historically did in 637 AD after a bloodless surrender.

Salam,

I think I'm asking the wrong question...

Are there any members here who thinks the Restricted Temple is in Jerusalem?

Salam

I'm absolutely convinced it is.

I'll try again...

Sapha in hebrew means to watch

Maspha in hebrew means a place from where you can watch/watch tower

Sapha into Greek = "skopos/skope"

Skopos into Latin = Scopus

This topic isn't about whether hajj is mandatory or not. Regardless of your off-topic post, the thesis of Jerusalem being the destination of hajj is entirely missing in your article (it only tests the Meccan thesis).

To be clear, the sapha mentioned in Josephus antiquities is a corruption of the hebrew "Maspha" or "Mizpah" meaning "watch tower"/"place of outlook". The Greek rendition of watch tower is "scopio"/"scopeo". Translated into Latin Scopus.

Mount Scopus has been strategically important as a base from which to attack the city since antiquity. The 12th Roman Legion camped there in AD 66. In AD 70, at the conclusion of the same war that led to the destruction of the Jewish Temple, Mount Scopus was used as a base to carry out the final siege of the city by the same 12th Legion, plus the 15th and 5th Legions, while the 10th Legion was positioned on the continuation of the same ridge, known as the Mount of Olives. The Crusaders used it as a base in 1099.

Maspha

Name of several places in the Bible. The Septuagint transcribes Masph?, Masseph?, Masseph?t; Vulg. Maspha and Masphath (once Masphe, Masepha, Mespha); Hebrew M??peh and M??pah; the latter almost invariably in pause. The word, with many other proper names, is derived from ?PH=watch, observe, and means "watch- tower" (speculum, skop?a), which sense it bears twice in the Bible (Isaiah 218; 2 Chronicles 2024). Josephus interprets by katopteu?menon or (Antt. VI, ii, 1).

I hope this explains the etymological relation to you.

A martyr, my god. Seems you have lost sense of reality as well this is just a forum. Me getting banned from it doesn't make me a martyr, nor will it affect me in any way. I suggest you stick to your threat however. Cause your logic has just given not only me but everyone on this forum persmission to call anyone a "pedophile" at will. Personal attacks are okay. Off topic posting is only an issue when it exposes the double standards of the moderators round here.

I would like to see some evidence of my reports being examined cause I myself haven't heared one single word on it from any moderator.

I posted this in the proper thread, used the report button four times resulting in zero action being taken. If you can't stand the heat, might as well ban me right now.

Let it be known that this individual has failed to prove this slander with any evidence whatsoever. The ID of one individual was provided after being asked and their posts still exist on the forum. This individual (Ahmed Bhagat) was banned for obscenities. Please be advised that slander is taken very seriously.

You have to be kidding me. You say slander is taken very seriously yet you allow users to accuse others of pedophilia without doing anything. 10/10 hypocrisy

Peace runninglikezebras.

They did not understand the functions of both,the brain and the heart. Full stop.

Neither do we at the present ,especially the complex relationship of both the brain and the heart.We are only starting to find out these two complex organs and their true functions on how our emotions are run by both?

GOD bless you.
Peace.

If you still believe your heart is responsible for emotion there is little I can say to you but "good luck with that".

Peace runninglikezebras.

You sayIn the 7th century the function of the human brain was hardly understood,then you go on to claim that

In ancient times people did not accredit the human brain with such functions but attributed it to the human heart.

Where is your evidence for this?

See eg https//web.stanford.edu/class/history13/earlysciencelab/body/brainpages/brain.html

Yes ,Qoran needs the heart and brain.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Maybe it does, but you still can't deny Quran totally ignored the human brain and accredits everything to the heart. This understanding is by all means outdated and typical for 7th century understanding.

I'm not expecting anything just pointing out an irrational attitude (the ultimate puppetmaster punishing those in the most sadist manner possible for a rejection of faith that is controlled by the puppetmaster himself).

In Quran everything is predestined and controlled by God. A rejection of faith or disbelief is due to the non-guidance by God as Quran states. This would be like a software programmer writing an application that is not working with the programmer blaming the application for not functioning. There is no rationality in it.

Quran even states God knows who will be the rejecters and who will be the believers even before you are born. So a child being born, growing up and predestined to become a disbeliever - totally beyond their own control, is ultimately punished in the hereafter for a development that is completely outside of their own control. That is a totally perverse concept. Not to mention it leads to immorality because anything evil-natured a human does is beyond their own control. It removes conscience/guilt and responsibility; anything evil-natured is the work of the devil, anything good-natured is due to Gods guidance, rendering the actions of the individual irrelevant, the only thing that matters is submission to what God has decided for you. This construct, how irrational it may be suits only one purpose total submission, it's nothing but an authoritarian tool.

However, the Quran doesn't say "if you don't believe in it you go to hell" !!! That's a misconception from your part. Your salvation depends on the weight of your deeds.

Seriously?

But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads; Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron

Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment Lo! Allah is ever Mighty, Wise

But if he is of the rejecters, the erring, then the welcome will be boiling water and roasting at hell-fire

O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination

O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end.

Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve

Disbelief is enough to end up in hell. One can only wonder why an omnipotent God would express himself in such a sadist manner. Moreover one can wonder why an omnipotent God would be bothered at all by disbelievers. Not to mention how odd this entire thing is when you consider the fact that Quran claims God is controlling everyones faith and is the one causing disbelief and rejection. Seems to me a rather irrational attitude.

Ad hominem detected...
Feel free to attack / debate on the opinion but no name calling / attack to the person.

Seems like the moderators on this forum are more sensitive towards replies going off-topic than ad hominem attacks. Huruf has a long history of personally attacking me, not once has a moderator stepped in. I've kind of gotten used to it and I would honestly doubt if I really have put my message across clearly enough if huruf did not reply with something ad hominem.

You are contradicting yourself. Logic demands in order to conceal, to cover deliberately the information has to be available. If it is not available what is there to cover? Without information it no longer qualifies as concealing but rather ignorance, which by all means is something entirely different.

Applied to 668 God can not conceal sins if he wasn't aware of them in the first place. QED

Similarly, rabbinic jews cannot hide a revelation if it was never revealed to them.

HP_TECH,

Jafar is ironical and dealing with the term kafar in a satirical way. He does say everyone who is disbelieving in the Islamic doctrine is a kafar. I would share his entertainment if I had not known kafar means deluded, which means anyone lost in their mind basically is a kafar.

Be safe
Amenuel

So in your interpretation God is deluded

66,8 O you believers!... Maybe your Lord will kaffar your sins?

Of course, kaffar means to cover, to hide, to conceal. In Quranic context when used as a noun referring to the rabbinic jews being accused of concealing, hiding the revelation of Jesus.

The statement highlighted above only shows a complete ignorance/misunderstanding of the actual message of the Qurn !

The textus NEVER claims to have been "written by G-D" !!! Had it said such a thing, it would have discredited itself (since writing is a human activity) !!!

The Qurn, as per itself, is the saying of an honourable messenger of G-D (6940, 8119). Ergo. Inspired by G-D (6943, 619, &c.), written by a mortal (294.

The so-called Mu`tazilah knew this,
which is why the createdness debate took place.

SLM

I was sloppy in paraphrasing Kingkreem. You are correct in saying Quran does not claim it was written by God but it does however claim it contains the unaltered words of God, inspired into his prophet. I'm still sticking to my point there is no evidence of a divine origin, there is all the more evidence of words originating from a 7th century misogynist guru with limited understanding of the world, granting himself authority over everyone, even going as far as allowing himself to have multiple wives (including children).

I'd say the latter is true. God didn't write this BS. All the traits of the writing in Quran are those of a 7th century guru with very limited understanding of the world (as was normal in those days) - a guru having quite a lot of misogynist traits.

Most of the users on this forum are quite hypocritical in what they preach if you contrast it to what they practice. In the Quran "Allah" states the believers should fight the disbelievers everywhere they find them, if they don't they are disbelievers themselves. So why aren't the keyboard warriors on this forum using their swords instead of their keyboards if they truly believe these are commandments from God?

The English translation of this book is currently in progress and I'm told (by Olaf) it is expected to be released in February 2016.