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Savage_carrot, the difference between a trial and a punishment is fairly easy to grasp.
Surely only Allah knows, but he also gives us the signs (ayat) to ponder, right ?
This isn't exactly sticking one's hand into the fire and getting immediately burnt types of 'fairly-easy-to-grasp-cause-and-effect-hur-dur'. This is dealing with thousands of factors, hundreds of different groups, so many layers yet all Europeans, all Muslims? Strong minds have a duty to dominate weak minds? Because they deserve it. No one should have to debate something like this with you.

A trial has never meant to say "the worse it gets, the best it means. No, never.
Are you now taking on the mantle of judging what is and isn't a trial, their nature, depth and duration for everyone else worldwide? good to know.

Look, establishing the deen in Quran, is similar to a revolution as we call today.
You have your local pharaoh, like Mubarak in Egypt or Ben Ali in Tunisia, who spreads mischief on the land.
His people start a revolution to establish freedom and other high principles.
But then, different parties have different views of what freedom and a new system means.
Some hypocrites pretend "this is freedom" whereas they have simply blown the power, as Khomeiny did in Iran (the Tudeh party was the real originator of the overthrow of the pharaoh of Iran).
Look, there are leaders spreading mischief all over. Why do they escape your ire?

During this time, economy is falling down. Most of people are in reality not reality interested in freedom, they want a properous economy and they associate it with freedom.
This is exactly what Quran reminds us with the story of Moses in verse 2.61. His people wanted beans, garlic and cucumber. They were not interested in the water of knowledge that cures their ignorance and would have led them to freedom.
Because of this economic pressure and society downfall, parties are in the hurry to find the grounds of a good system. Since they cannot take their time, they elaborate an awkward system.
This is what Quran says by story of the Calf. Calf is ajla in Arabic. It also means haste.
On one hand you say they aren't interested in freedom and whatever it means to you, curing their ignorance, then you proceed to say they do want a good system but are hasty. So what do people really want? You can now proceed to shine with your 'I know what it all means appendix 9.1b)Inner wants, desires, natures of people worldwide'.

All this, savage_carrot, is the trial in Quran Allah tests the determination of the people when they pretend to establish a free system on their land and they will be tested with a bit of "hunger", i.e. with economic pressure.
Pretend to? And is that all they will be tried with? I suppose you know exactly what, when and where. Worldwide.

You didn't understand what I meant by strong minds vs. weak minds. It is has nothing to do with might or power.
Pharaoh was weak-minded, not strong minded, though he was mighty on his land.
Oppression on the land is the result of weak-minded having the power.
You can start by reading this https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master%E2%80%93slave_morality
In particular, I like this "Master morality weighs actions on a scale of good or bad consequences (i.e. classical virtues and vices, consequentialism), unlike slave morality which weighs actions on a scale of good or evil intentions (e.g. Christian virtues and vices, Kantian deontology)".
This is based on Nietzsche philosophy.
Quran is not exactly the same as Nietzsche philosophy but is not so far away.
In Nietzsche's view of master/slave morality, he'd think your revolution to establish the deen is weak so I guess there is no choice but to keel over and die wishing for beans while horses and people continue to be whipped. Sounds familiar. You end up in pretzels precisely because you're taking bits and pieces of stuff, cobbling it together and coming up with some semblance of Frankenstein. Then again you do seem enamored of ?bermenschic concepts so I suppose it was to be expected.

"You know, the Quran was written (or revealed to if you wish) by a Jew, indeed not a rabbinic Jew, but a Jew anyway. A lot of verses in Quran are taken from esoteric jewish scriptures (midrashim) that even most of Jews don't understand."
You think the quran was written by some Jewish guy somewhere. You think "If Muslims hadn't tried to hide this jewish origin of Quran, and invented stupid stories about Muhammad like slaughtering the Banu Qurayza tribe, or making Jews as disbelievers in the Fatiha, never would have Israel been created in 1947". You want us to accept this? Debate this? Not until Cthulhu rises up in your posts will I consider this time well spent. If you intend on consistently making these claims, they should be in the right section and with evidence.

Correct, and it is exactly what Quran says the creation comes to its end and a new one is started.
Read verses 11.107 and 11.108 Hell and Paradise are not eternal in the sense we give it classically. They last until the end of the creation.
Not particularly interested in what you're selling, more interested in where you're selling it.

It's clear that according to criteria (al-furqan) given in Quran, Muslims, at some point of their history (around 10th century) have started to follow the path of Satan.
Worse they have been following the Taghut, i.e. Satan that tries to impersonate Allah.
As a consequence of the sunna of Allah they have found themselves weak.

What makes you think you know the difference between a trial and punishment? Only Allah knows, you do not. You are currently on par with sectarians claiming that natural disasters are a consequence of the sins of the dead. Allah tells us in the Quran about particular people and what transpired. You are not the Quran personified and neither are you an authorized spokesman for Allah unless you wish to claim that from here on out.

On the other hand, Europeans have rejected the path of Taghut, since two centuries, except during WWI and WWII.
As a consequence of the sunna of Allah, they have found themselves strong, even if they don't uphold the Quran.
As soon as they tried to follow the path of the Taghut, they also felt in Hell, during WWI and WWII.
The broad brushstrokes painting a continent full of diverse countries, peoples and politics...all good. Blessed by Allah no less. It's like you're deliberately living in some sort of bubble where the vast amounts of 'Taghut' on record just didn't happen and by them. Now you're on par with some groupie of the Pharaoh thinking that Moses and his followers were weak and cursed by whatever powers that be, while the Pharoah is strong and the very epitome of the universe blessing him due to the position he held. That Muhammad and his followers were cursed and the idolators were in the right because surely everyone can see they have the power not a rag tag bunch of crazies? Might is right. Given time things change, the cycle repeats itself and the waves continue. There can be a lot of wrong done in our estimation by any party but there is a reason why we don't gauge by asinine things like he's so rich and successful, surely he must be on the right path. Everyone living in his house connected to him must be similarly blessed. This is definitely what the Quran is talking about! Somehow they fell or felt in Hell but straight away as the wars ended, they were back to being the good ones? Absolutely nothing else they did that had lasting ramifications for the world at large (not them) makes a dent in their shiny armor.

I consider opinions like this short sighted with a lack of consideration of factors involved. There is a reason we should be cautious. Not just regarding interpretation but regarding emphatic judgements and those that proclaim/espouse them.

Thought hot debate if haram to urinate standing up?

You win the internet today. Thank you, I never knew.

I can see where Ed is coming from which is an issue I've raised on the forum on multiple occasions The capacity of some to mostly see things in black and white and then to use that as justification to interpret and judge collectively willy nilly. Whether the judging or interpretation comes first is interesting at times. Would I call it hate speech? Sure, sometimes it is. That's why more context is needed rather than just an isolated stupid opinion which as other posters have mentioned can only happen with more dialogue. Most of the times if the discourse is civil, it is usually beneficial. If it isn't, it's still beneficial to go through the motions in a way that others can learn from the exchange. If it happens consistently is when other avenues are considered. Tbh, these sorts of concepts and/or opinions are so endemic in certain groups/people that it's not even up for debate, it's like a commonly accepted truth of some sort...any dissent about it usually serves to either harden the shell or make the person think the ones who dare not see it or argue about it are coming from a a totally different planet.

When a terror action is committed you have stated that you wish it is not a Muslim?

Wow - that's what I call conditioning. You are assuming that terrorist actions are isolated actions and that the people who have learning difficulties who commit hose atrocities believe in the Quran.
The reality is that the Western governments use those terrorists to keep Muslim countries in a state of permanent backwardness - how else do you explain the US funding Saudi Arabia?
So my take on it is - what a bunch of Godless and Crusading devils - the lot of them - the Hadithists like Saudi family and the US and its allies who call the Middle East - hell - and then murder people to plant Europeans on a piece of the Arabian peninsula.

I leave you to your own subjective understanding.

If after an event such as a terrorist attack a simple thing as going to the grocery store even is fraught with untold danger, should we write down sticky notes suggesting we aren't the ones responsible in bright colors, well defined fonts and slap them onto our coats? Geopolitical actions cause this to happen! I'm just an innocent person of color? Perhaps you haven't experienced that feeling of intense fear or discomfort for long stretches at a time wondering if you should even leave the house? Holding an opinion that it was due to xyz does absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things like making that walk and interacting with others who are judging you and not very kindly I may add. You may even need to take a rain coat to deflect some spitting on occasion and/or headphones to tune out the comments headed your way especially if you're using public transport. I wouldn't recommend a back pack for carrying the groceries home in since that just may give the wrong impression. I fail to see how conditioning has anything to do with this, my opinions or yours regarding why it happens or how have nothing to do with the way I'm going to be treated because of the way I look. That's why I, along with others, dread any of these events especially if you're living in a country where the majority isn't Muslim. Until the world changes and unicorns frolic in the fields, we will have to deal with this by wishing that it wasn't 'us'. Some even celebrate by sighs of relief if it isn't 'us'. It used to be enough to just hope it wasn't your countryman but that wasn't very empathetic and now decades later, it doesn't matter because no matter where you're from if you check the visual boxes, thou shalt be judged with a beam to the face, or eye.

His mum says he was totally fine but anyone that obsessive is clearly flirting with the danger zone there, esp the breakdown at the end when he locks himself away. Reminds me of that girl who died in a water tank with the vid of her talking to some invisible entity etc. Hope he's found hiding somewhere before he hurts himself or an alien.

Peace,

Just a short side point.
The urban legend is commonly 15%.

My 20% is a crude guess judging on the expanding trend of knowledge humans have gained from stone tools to space exploration, genomics, quantum mechanics, Internet, etc. .
So there is a lot of room for improvement in the next 50-100-200 years and future, just as the resurgence and increasing acceptance of the truer and wiser Quran-only view away from the clasp of the Ahadith mongers since 1000++ years ago.

One thing for sure, there is no way we can know what is 20% or 15% precisely or even near to it because we can never know what is the total 100% potential of the human brain to base on and compute.

Thus a conservative guess merely provide the hope, drive and optimism that there is room for improvement.
Like they say, if you think your cup is full , then there no more room & hope for improvement.

I'm on board with that. Humanity can also do so much more regarding what it already has/knows in terms of system design, organization and efficiency; it's usually not utilized properly imo.

It's all a joke, SC. He has a plan for everything and everyone.
The joke's on you
Yes I know I totally lost it yay rotfl brickwall giveup laugh -\ -* >D eat
btw it has nothing to do with what you said and not directed at you it's pure frustration

http//68.media.tumblr.com/07b6a7f8051095ecd127833d35259eff/tumblr_inline_oo7o30rRe31szkhw7_400.gif

But the fact remains that I do not know a single woman from where I come who is unhappy with this.

Think what huruf means is that unless we start 'enforcing' for lack of a better word, some change in the mindset if it doesn't occur naturally...we'll always be at a stage where whatever is comfortable or done a certain way stays the norm. This is very true. For example generally, women in the workplace. It started to become a necessity at times due to war or what have you. Once the need was over, it was much more accepted than previously. It's probably similar with this issue. It starts becoming more of a non issue when it's being done commonly. Different people have different reasons for why they want to maintain the status quo. The worst out of those is the one to do with asses. I'm certainly not happy about that or standing behind anyone (latter is probably just my anti social tendencies).

My guess is humanity has only a 20% of the full potential of the human brain.
I've read about it being an urban legend or some such, would be interesting to know why you think so. Feel free to start a new thread.

and notice that my instinct is to always do the most selfish thing at that moment
I think that's true for a lot of people I know, surely we can't have so many psychopaths running around or perhaps that's why the world is the way it is.

The critical factor is not to generalize but suspend judgment on any findings as far as neuroscience is concern at this stage.
Agreed, how it plays out in rl however is another story. science and research is awesome but kneejerk connections which the scientists themselves may not even be responsible for, need to be dealt with in better ways than currently. peace.

Great post Ed. I read a book a while back by James Fallon, the psychopath inside. Was an interesting read. It probably would go towards preemptive testing and discarding of 'normals' into less than perfect categories in some way or another.

Well that's why I am asking, wasting 6 hours of our precious life is six hours to much.
Maybe we can share the risk, when you see one let me know if its worth it, same for me.

And yes you are right, this is not the movie thread, but how many times do I get the chance to ask Bhai Parvez a question?

But then please don't ban him, I need an autograph
)

Check how cool
Salut la aye (Bring proof)
Rey de yi (Arrest me)
Raees ara Ser O0 (Raees is at your service O0 )

No wonder you like these movies, you watch them dubbed in French and Japanese. Salut la aye = Saboot ley aaeyeh. Rey de yi = Ley jaeie. Raees ara Ser = Raees hazir hai.

Just did now a quick search, looks same as this, same nick btw.

btw Kaabil and Raees, good or not good?

You're sniffing around the wrong rabbit hole. Just look at this

"Letter SAA means skeleton or something like skeleton in some sense in some way for some reason or purpose. Also infrastructure or supporting framework or something like supporting framework in some sense in some way for some reason or purpose, hanger or something upon which something relies or is hanged or built in some sense in some way for some reason or purpose, a structure that gives something its shape or form or support or foundation as to what it is as a concrete reality or as an abstract concept in some sense in some way for some reason or purpose, a framework or mechanism or machine or structure for making or knitting cloth, draft plan, mould, outline, body, bony or solid structure, model, sketch, main supporting frame of a structure, chassis, frame, clothes or garments, clothe hanger, scarecrow, staff, support, structure, building, ladder, ruin, destruction, a group or party of horse riders or fighting men, the centre of water trough, downpour, cascading, pouring forth, waterfalls, goodness, snake or serpent, channels cut in the mountains by flooding, a capable person, something heavy, heavy loads, responsibility, weight, importance, eminence, hearsay,"

It starts off by using a thesaurus and towards the end of the above it can be clearly seen that the thesaurus was lost or stolen. A dictionary or something else takes its place. This is further clarified by the author using the tried and true methodology of "Random picks, random pages, random books" towards the end

"to become reluctant or hesitant, to find something oppressive or distressful or dull, to become pregnant or heavy with child, to dig for water, to fruit or bear fruit or bring about an outcome, to price or value or put a price or value on someone or something, to fold or double or bend or twist or turn, to praise, to exclude or exempt or make an exception, to repeat or recycle, to return or comeback, to come to a gathering or meeting, to repay or pay back, to volunteer, to be requited, to clothe or cover or wrap up, to raise or elevate, to stir or excite or motivate or agitate or exhort, to plough, to chase, to dig up, to rage, to rebel, to break up, to look into, to abide in a place, to live in a place for a long time in some sense in some way for some reason or purpose, to bring people or things together to form a network of people or things in some sense in some way for some reason or purpose, to put people or things in touch or in contact with each other in some sense in some way for some reason or purpose, to join or link or connect people or things together in some sense in some way for some reason or purpose, to be clever or cunning or tricky or deceptive or sharp or cute in some sense in some way for some reason or purpose, skeleton or something like skeleton in some sense in some way for some reason or purpose,"

Evidently, R.L Stine was the author given the skeleton/scarecrow connection (I just know there is a book about those two, even together! by the same guy). Perhaps we're being used as a control group? or he's finally decided he doesn't care anymore in some way for some reason or purpose. Mughal = R.L. Stine. Case closed and cute skeleton out of closet. We know who you are.

In other news, both suck and no, I didn't watch them.

Let us indeed talk business once again. Separate the phrases, from the clauses with the appropriate punctuation mark. By failing to do the above, you have turned the two independent phrases into a run on sentence.

Correction I agree with everything else. Very useful suggestions!

Ok, this is really it.
Unless, someone else cares to correct my mistakes.

It was a chance for Bender to shine in the sun. Unfortunately, you took it. Really must love those rays eh? Did you know that it takes an average of 8 minutes and 20 seconds to travel from the Sun to the Earth? Fun fact.

sun

Ok lets talk business!
"i" should be in CAPITAL!
When you finish a sentence, you first hit the dot then hit the space bar. Same with commas, first the comma then the space bar.

Let's talk business. There should be an apostrophe when you use it like that. I agree with everything else, very useful suggestions. Ok, that's it.