Peace noble

Quote
After all if they were to become muslims Allah will turn their evil deeds into good deeds.

A very good argument, but the easiest in the world to abuse. The prophet Joseph set an example, but the rest of us settle for hypocrisy. After all it?s not like walking into fire, it?s more like falling into a bed of roses. It is the same argument put forward by every single religionist from middle class of upper class stock, and not only among Moslems. The argument you put forward is exactly the same one on which stands the modern Babylon of hypocrisy. It?s a bit irresponsible to put it forward, don?t to think, with all these impressionable eyes peering over us?

How do you think capitalism sprang up from the heart of Christianity. It is due to that diabolical notion that occupies the center, that which says the Jesus Christ has washed away the sins of the believer. This is what made them justify greed, gluttony and envy (free market economy), pride (material evolution and progress), lying and stealing (law by precedence) and lechery (fine art). The Moslems are entering this game very late, but they are excelling the Christians and Jews at it. They are saying, take everything of the West except drinking and flagrant nudity, observe Namaj, Roza and Hajj, and everything is made right. The Christian and the Jew has to work for their material heaven, but the Moslem only wants to step into someone else?s nest, and this multiplies the hypocrisy manifold. The Moslem way washes sins so thoroughly, it seems, that there is not even shame left.

Yes, we are not that kind of Moslem. But let?s please try not to sound like them.

Shaad
http//www.nazrulreader.com

Peace noble

Nobody is saying ?don?t ask? or ?don?t investigate?. All I am saying is that you will not get far in your investigations if you fantasize about a material universe where God has no place. Material evolution is a theory that says that physical law is the agent of Creation, and physical law is inviolable and not even God can change it. Those who say ?creative evolution? don?t know what they are talking about. On the one hand they insist on physical law, and then they are saying that God violates physical law all the time when he is at the task of creating man through DNA manipulation, and this is plain nonsense. What purpose does this God-less fantasy serve? None at all, except to pander to the ego, and thus to leave the door wide open to all the vices.

If you believe you have medical miracles due to this kind of thinking you are wrong. This is just a story put out by those who bask in the advantages of technology and then begin to fantasize that it was all due to plain logic and manipulation. And they extrapolate backwards thinking that the logic must have started somewhere, and they begin to imagine an animal-like state of man who has nothing, no language, no morality, no culture, no religion, only a busy, logical brain, and one by one he works things out. And then they extrapolate even further back, thinking that that the crude caveman must have started from somewhere, and they hit on the idea of physical evolution, a logical-mechanical process whereby cruder forms of life develop into more advanced ones. So the logical conundrum began in a soup of amino acids, is now at the stage where we are dabbling in microsurgery and so on, and in the future will have us as immortal hedonists trying hard to figure out novel ways to enjoy our 25,317th year, and this conundrum has apparently no final solution What a preposterous fantasy! These are the fantasists that put out the idea of ?progress? and make you believe that their way is the way of knowledge.

The next time you receive modern medical aid just think of yourself as lucky, that?s all. But the machinery that brought you that service is a monster. Those families that work their socks off to put their son through medical school do it for family pride, that?s all. Those medical-researchers who work day and night to invent cures do it for the sake of the profit-lines of the medical industry, nothing else. They profess to eradicate disease, but don?t believe in their Hypocritical oaths, because they are just that, hypocrisy. If diseases were eradicated tomorrow than not a single doctor or researcher would take to the monastery and thank the Almighty for this blessing. No, the industry will then re-employ its mighty manipulative powers towards disease creation. This is because pride, respectability and perks come before everything else, and the Oath of Hippocrates is just a means for them. All these self-serving individualists make up a monster. They will tell you that they are serving you, and that they are inventing all these things for your benefit, but don?t believe them. How that medical aid came to your benefit is a mystery. I can tell you this, that in the final analysis it came from light of the Quran, that which appeared among us 1400 years ago. But do you know how? Through atheists and denouncers of the Quran? We can never figure this out. But this we know for sure, that inspiration never comes to the head of a materialist. Why should it, when he doesn?t even believe in inspiration?

I will tell you what they would do if they were honest about material knowledge. They would first try to find a vaccination that fixes the evil-tendency of man, and once every single person on earth has been thus vaccinated they would then begin the task of compiling empirical knowledge, secure in their selves that things will progress and not regress. But they don?t do that. They shout ?progress via pandering to the ego?. And we believe it because it appeals to our worse nature.

Shaad
http//www.nazrulreader.com

PS. Thanks, noble, for the compliment. But I only want to get a point across and I am not aware of poetry.

Peace noble

No, never stop searching for your spiritual origin, for that is also your final destination too. But why do you want a ?knowable material origin? too? What else can this serve except your ego? The material existence around us is nothing but a place where are signs that direct us back to our eternal abode. Do you want to know the origin of a signboard? This will only direct you to wood, ink and stone ? to materialism.

Regards material origin, you have the report in front of you ? and the finding conclusion has one word ?Nothing.? Let alone life, the search for dead matter has wound up with ?nothing?. Lots of words have been thrown up ? atom, molecule, electron, proton, neutron, muon, positron, neutrino, quark, anti-quark, and so on and so forth. Has anyone ever seen these things? On the contrary, whenever anyone tries to examine these things he comes across empty space, and only certain behaviours of his appatarus. To explain these behaviours he imagines other, even tinier particles, and these in turn, when investigated closely, are found to be empty space. And so the imagination brews up more terms, and the epic of pontification just carries on and on. The apparatus even talks to the investigator straightforwardly and it tells him, ?You are only imagining things.? Because quantum mechanics tells us that the particle is there only when we observe it, but doesn?t even exist when we look away. And this is the outcome of trying to find out the origin of a dead piece of matter. Nothing, and wasteland of arid imagination. But just look at the ego, flying high on the fuel of nothingness. It has become a giant in the kingdom of the sky, and with its fairytale of conjectures it now wants to tackle the origin of life (chromosome, DNA, and so on). And it will not stop there either, but then wants to describe the mind (nerve cell, cerebellum, and so on), and then soars again and puts the spirit of man into concrete physical terms (archetype, transcendental personality, and so on). And you call this gargantuan feeding of the ego ?search for truth????

The biggest tragedy to me seems to be that the highest truth of all, the Quran, is attracting the dimmest of wits. Materialism ran its course and left the Western world groaning in nihilist despair. But it seems that there be wits in this world that notice not a thing, who consider printed money to be the blood of life, greed to be a modern form of morality, technological manipulation to be ?good works?, and comfort to be heaven. Such-like see the Quran as justicfication for a fresh bout of materialism, starting from the very beginning, evolution, human rights, freedom of enquiry, and so on. The same sort of behaviour I see among the orthodox Moslems, those who follow the Hadith and have not yet discovered the Quran. When knowledge was not yet in the books, but needed life-threatening expeditions of discovery, life-long enquiry and dedication, demonstration of the highest courage and the greatest morals, then the orthodox Moslems shunned knowledge as Kufr. But when the knowledge were collated in books, and needed only mindless rote for a few years towards university degrees and middle class respectability, then they suddenly changed tack and started to quote endlessly how the Quran promoted enquiry, and that it knew about science way before the Westeners did. The difference between the orthodox Moslem and the new Quranist is only in level of sophistication. One is crassly chasing material wealth, while the other is subtle in its ego-satisfying quest for knowledge. Where is the room for spiritual advancement here?

Shaad
http//www.nazrulreader.com

Dear Edip

Nobody denies ?intelligent design in evolution?, and not even the hard-boiled atheist scientists that you quote, because they have injected a lot of intelligent design into what they say, and so they are actually admitting that which they otherwise deny with their mouth. The only difference is what sort of words you decide to attach to that statement, and here you will find that it is to the liking of some and is detested by others, and that?s all there is to it. The atheist scientist includes mountains of mumbo jumbo ? ?scientific? terms, which implies nothing other than scientific imagination. Yes, these are only fruits of a strange imaginative, issuing forth from a queer tradition of measuring tiny bits of matter and energy after having trammelled them through apparatus and method. They use these ?words? to plaster across their entire surroundings, so that in the end they are confined within a little spherical place, and then they do not have to see, hear, smell, taste or touch the real world beyond, and the confined fantasy is enough for them. Of course they can afford to say ?blind chance?, but that is their particular privilege, and I don?t know why you are asking for a fight with them.

But you do annoy others when you say ?intelligent design in MATERIAL evolution?. No, you don?t put it in those exact words, but that is definitely the gist that you convey. I think it was Lamarck, 200 years ago, who proposed this idea, that God intervened at certain points to create new species that emerged from the eggs of the old ones. No doubt, this is intelligent design. But the problem lies with those words. They do not fit the glory of God. They imply a limited intelligence, as if God is still busy with clay and kiln just as we are. What you are saying is merely an improvement on Lamark, because you are saying that God intervened in every single act of placing every individual amino acid into the DNA superstructure towards mutation and new species. At first sight this looks like mighty intelligence, but on deeper reflection you will see that you are turning God into a materialist, i.e. minutely occupied with material reality. This is not befitting God at all, and there is bound to be howls of complaints. Even the clockwork evolution of Darwin is preferable to this, though why God would prefer to create a clock instead of man will remain unsatisfactory to man.

Accepting the theory of material evolution to be true, you are only satisfying a curiosity within yourself as to how man came about in this material existence, and you want a scientific answer, so that no one can come and refute you. But what does material mechanics matter if it all occurred before God breathed his Ruhu into man? There were no human eyes to observe the primordial algae forming in the early ocean, nor did anyone wait to see the fish walk onto the land. You want a picture that fits with the fossil record? The fossil record is scant, but the human ego is vast. And no matter how many bones you dig up, the human ego will always be a thousand times greater in weight. So any discussion of bones is hazardous, because indeed you are digging up the hellish underworld that way. I myself have never seen evolution in the fossils, only extinct species. You quote bacteria evolving in the laboratory, but that bacteria could indeed be a shape-shifter, and who knows how many hats it has. But these are petty concerns. The overriding factor is the human spirit, because, without a shadow of a doubt, material evolution kills spiritual evolution. Who needs God when atoms and molecules explain Creation? You may say that you do, but you fail to take into consideration the frailty of others. Yes, you might have dug deep, deep into the earth for clues, and deep, deep onto quantum-dynamical states, and found for yourself a satisfactory explanation of Creation, but haven?t you noticed that you have thereby dug yourself into Jahannam!

As one guided by the light of the Quran, you must reject this obnoxious theory of material evolution. Creation will ever remain a mystery to us. You will protest that you are not solving the mystery but only stating it in physical, concrete terms. But why use material terms to express the spiritual? Why use unhewn rock to write the Iliad? Better use the mystery confined in the Word and the poetic imagination.

Shaad
http//www.nazrulreader.com

Peace Phoenix1

There is absolutely no problem at all with the quest you undertake. In fact there is no other way for us other than to be attracted to the tantalizing message of the Quran, because we want to have the exact interpretation, now that it is so much within our reach. But this eagerness draws us into a trap too. For one thing, how far have I rejected my prior stage of darkness? For if I am not able to reject my prior darkness with finality, then isn?t it the case that I only fool myself that I have seen the miracle of the Quran? It could well be a secret ego-trip, nothing else.

Take the case of the ex-Sunnis. I don?t know if you fall into this category or not, but this situation certainly provides us with the litmus test of belief. And here I part violently with Al-Quraishi, who suggests that we placate the Sunnis. This is rank ridiculous, in my opinion. I want to ask this of Al-Quraishi, Who is the Munafiq against whom we are warned so severely in the Quran? A Munafiq is someone who professes Islam, supposes himself to be a righteous and pious Moslem, but one who has fallen to idolatry. Due to this God has robbed them of their hearing and the seeing, so that none of your guidance will make any inroads across this barrier. And if fact God directs us away from their company, and we are not to visit the mosques that they assemble at, nor are we to attend their funeral prayers. For them are reserved the lowest depths of Hell, without exception, whereas we are told that many among those of the other Scriptures are destined for Heaven. A large part of the Quran is dedicated to warning us of the Munafiq. Who do we suppose this Munafiq is, one who is bold enough to assemble at mosques without impunity? It is certainly not a stray wrongdoer finding refuge among the believers. No, it is indeed part of an organized religion, and one that is directly inimical to the Deen. If you think that this identification of the Munafiq is wrong I suggest you approach a orthodox believer with the Truth of the Quran. Believe me, after the experience you will come back and say that the Quran has described the Munafiq with pinpoint accuracy.

As I was saying about the litmus test, if you are an ex-Sunni you must examine whether your allegiance towards the ?Moslem Ummah? has changed after you have witnessed the miracle of the Quran. And what I see is that hardly anyone has revised their allegiance. When it comes to the case of the Big Satan (America) pitched against the corrupt Moslem world, they stay rooted for the ?Moslem?, and in fact they become even more fervent in their criticism of the West. The same approach when they approach the Israel-Arab conflict. With a new found moral superiority they attack Israel and the Jews even more viciously. By no means do I condone America and Israel, but where is the perspective here? Have they not witnessed the fact that America and the West, however fallen in their ways, have never antagonized the truth seeker, and to the contrary have opened every possible opportunity in the path that leads to Truth. And compare this to the record of the orthodox believer, who has quashed truth and strangled its throat at the slightest whisper of it, and has done so consistently throughout its 1400 year history. Islam and the Quran are with us today not because of the Sunni and the Shia, but despite them. For sectarian and orthodox Islam is the biggest enemy of the Deen. When we do not know this then we swear allegiance to the ?Moslem Ummah?. But when we do find this out, then how is it possible for us to maintain that previous allegiance. The only possible explanation is that we have not found out. And this, to me, means that we have not really discovered the Quran.

Shaad
http//www.nazrulreader.com

Peace zenje

No, of course I do not assert that there have been no Moslems in the last 1400 years. But this is the perspective of the ?scholar Moslem?, and I was only trying to point out that if we approach the Quran with our intellects alone then this we are forced to conclude.

On the contrary, I believe there have been countless and great Moslems over the ages, and in this regard I consider a Moslem to be a submitter before the truth that is God. I see Moslems today, and usually among the under-privileged, with a hand to mouth existence, and they do not have the leisure to absorb any of the false theology put out by the Mullahs, nor do they have the opportunity to utilize the tariqa of hypocrisy towards material gain. But apart from this I usually find the Moslems to be outside the so-called Moslem Ummah. I see among the Christians and the Jews many enlightened by the light of the Quran, and I do not hesitate to call them Moslems. I admit it is a hazardous task to try and identify individuals, and almost impossible to trace the exact path whereby the individual has access to the light of the Quran. Yet when I look at the broad vista of history since the year 610 I see nothing but the light of the Quran having propagated through the world, and nothing else is behind the unmatched scientific advance, the avalanche of human endeavour and the flood of human creativity. Yes, the materialists and the atheists claim the laurels, but I have checked and found out that history is written by the usurpers and for the usurpers. The busy intellects who endlessly glorify human progress have never given us anything. No, the real contributors are festering in oblivion. Jean Buridan is turned into an ?ass?, while Isaac Newton is given all the credit. And even that part of Isaac Newton that is admitting of the Quran is trashed while history tells us that Newton wrote the Principia with straightforward logic and all the rest was his superstition, so that we are given an absolutely false Newton is place of the true one.

When I look carefully I find that it is the light of the Quran whenever I see the appearance of light. In the beginning it was confined to the Moslem world and physically close to the Quran. Then 4 to 5 centuries later the light went out over there as the Hadith triumphed and the new idolaters closed the book of the Quran for the Moslems. But they could not put out the light of the Quran itself, because it found vent in the Christian sphere in the West. From Roger Bacon to Francis Bacon, 300 years, we find that the founders of Western science are constantly admitting their debt to the Moslems, and these passages are erased from modern texts. Now that the usurpers have erased everything it is hard for us to trace influences. But look at the picture in a broad sweep and the truth of the matter cannot be avoided. It is all issuing from the light of the Quran. And the necessary corollary to this is that there are Moslems in the West, among the Christians, Jews and others. On the other hand there is no light in the ?Moslem? sphere, not since the first centuries. And this also implies that there are hardly any Moslems in this place. The Quran is the light. And nobody huddling pitch darkness can claim to have it.

Shaad
http//www.nazrulreader.com

When will this journey into nothingness end?

So we find out that all the while that we thought that we were following Islam we were in fact following the rank opposite of it. And not only that, but all through the ages there has not been a single Moslem, at least not since the Battle of Karbala in which the Meccans obliterated the original community of the Prophet in 684. And even now that some of us have heard the message of the true Quran brought to us by Rashad Khalifa, we have suddenly turned into ?scholar Moslems?, scouring the Quran for true interpretation while learning to eject all the misconceptions drummed into us by our misguided parents. In other words we are not truly Moslem yet, but we are studying hard so that we may eventually become one. And as we study we even notice that we are dividing, even this tiny, tiny group who profess to see the light. And why do we expect different, for every act of studying is an act of dividing, because understanding and interpretation is a relative thing, and nobody presumes that we become infallible just because we see the light. We make sounds as if, just because we have discovered the complete divinity confined within a book, we are surely on our road to salvation, and it only requires that the new understanding settle down after some fumbling investigation. We radiate optimism, bordering on arrogance, in fact. But the reality of the matter is that we are dividing day by day. Even among this miniscule group of people we are developing out atomists, our realists, our idealists, our determinists, our sophists, our empiricists, our existentialists, and so on. This is all division, and mirroring the division that we observe among the ancient Greeks, as well as among the modern rationalists. The Greeks ended in nihilist despair, and in the same mess are the modern rationalists mired. Why do we expect different? The only advantage we hold over them is that we have the undeniable words of God to guide us. But it is the same frail interpretation, the same weak brain. So it might not be an advantage at all, but only a false sense of security.

It is plain as daylight as to what our problem is. We lack the requisite purification before we come to the Quran. Yes, in a sudden blinding flash of light we have seen that the Quran is the comprehensive truth. But this does not necessarily lend to us purification. We suddenly find that God is talking to us in plain idiom. But are we elevated enough to be spoken to in plain idiom by God? Which prophet, sage or philosopher ever told us that God would one day speak to us in plain idiom? No, they have always told us different, that man is not capable of assimilating too much truth while entangled in his material concerns. Recall that the mountain crumbled before the eyes of Moses due to the presence of God therein. Yes, the Quran declares itself as easy to understand. But I don?t see anybody having understood it in 1400 years. We fool ourselves if we believe that we will be able to understand it now. The vast majority of those who have heard the message of Rashad Khalifa are suffering from a surfeit of arrogance, and thus are not capable of true understanding. Yes, the Quran is easy to understand, but the criterion of purification stands fast too. Instead we seem to be way, way too busy with our intellects, and all the time we are sharpening our sophistry with Quranic quotation. We seem to be saying, ?First we will bulldoze our way to the Truth, and then we will be purified by it.? But the criterion of purification comes first, and there can be no evasion here.

Shaad
http//www.nazrulreader.com