Really? Sorry about the misconception. I lived in middle east for awhile and in my state, hijabis aren't uncommon.

I have also been around several and have never experienced what you speak of.

We don't wear the badge. People who attack usually are strangers here.

I guess it can also depend on what you look like. E.g. whether you have brown skin or not. But attacks by racists on women with headscarf are of course much more common.

I have yet to find someone other than cancer patients who don't make religion as an excuse to wear hijab.

There are African women that wear turban. I also watched a video by a woman who wore headscarf because she felt it went with her gothic look (or something like that).

Obviously, we aren't running any campaign against hijab. But I wouldn't support their claim that it is for religion and to prevent "fitna" pf attraction. I must also add that somehow the idea that men can't control themselves takes away the need for them to be accountable.

You don't have to support their claims. But if they feel that it makes them feel more comfortable and modest then fine.
Of course, we are responsible for our own actions.

Not for what they wear, but who they hang out with.

There are men that say the women were "asking for it".

Elaborate.

If I remember correctly, what I meant was that it's up to men to control their actions and not blame women for their own problems..

They are not always washed. But the odor thing is not just my own complaint.

What does that have to do with headscarf?
It sounds like you haven't been around many headscarf wearing women or don't know many.

I am not talking about sins here. Sorry for not giving details. These days hanging out with them means telling the uneducated men that we are sectarians also and thus, worthy of attack.

You think so? Sometimes just being a Muslim is enough for some people to attack us.

It is not a woman v woman, but lie in the name of Islam v truth God told us to abide by. As I have always maintained, non islamic reasons to wear hijab is what I support.

You can support what you want but just wearing a headscarf is no reason to be against them or disrespect them either and I'm saying this even though I sometimes feel left out and not supported by the Muslim women community just because I don't wear one. It's sad, I think we should support each other despite our clothing. I'm not saying support their reasons if you don't want to but just them as part of the community, I suppose.

No, we weren't talking about that. The member used hindu widows' condition as an example that women should prevent themselves from being attractive. Unfortunately, that is a support for oppression.

Oh right. That's not really a good example to use.

Then there would have been many rapes.

Aren't there?

welcome

Thanks!!

The rape problem of college fraternities is centuries old and they have been always recorded. There is hardly anyone who doesn't know about this here. If even after that a woman goes to their house party then we can simply blame her. Come on, you won't walk in the forest at night without shoes! Frats are so notorious for drugging women for rape that some company even released a nail polish to help women detect if the drink they have has drug. To make things worse, reporting never always helps because these rapists' dads are politicians, CEO'S and other rich people capable of buying presidents of the universities and cops. That said, there are dumb men also who with the hope to climb the corporate ladder try to join these frats only to be killed at the time of hazing.

Yeah I don't know much about "fraternity parties". I'm assuming it's a US thing.

It is not just hair. People get sexually attracted to each other even through chats without exchanging photos.

Beauty is in the eye of beholder. Different people prefer different kinds of attractions just like love. No two persons may have one single opinion about how they fall in love.

That wasn't even the point.

The problem is not preference but the fact that the sectarians wear it by saying God told them to do so. We all know that's a lie. Unfortunately, plenty of us have suffered in various ways because of their choice. For instance, hijabis have been caught cheating. It is very easy to hide cheat sheets in that piece of cloth. They always also seem to think sexual and that's very very distracting and annoying. It starts quite early. Like I remember one friend in 7th grade used to limit our fun time in school playground because she thought a 50 year old teacher we had liked her and she was too shy to be near him. The latest problem is "I don't wanna walk over there. I don't wanna park over there. What if I am attacked for my hijab?" Needless to say that they have become a threat to all those who surround them. The odor is the number one problem though. I haven't met one who hasn't burned my nose. It is also wrong to profile men.

What do you mean odor?
But it's true, there are "hijabis" who are targetted because of their headscarf.
"Threat"? I think you're exaggerting here. There are headscarf wearers who sin and do bad things but so do many other women.
If it's ridiculous for "hijabis" to be against other Muslim women just for not wearing a scarf then it's also wrong for Muslim women who don't wear a scarf to be against those women just because they do. It's also quite ridiculous how some "Quranists" seem to be so against women who wear headscarf and/or niqab yet seem to think it's fine and dandy to wear bikinis.

Oh there is more. Because of that same reason

Widows are not allowed to eat much of what any normal person can eat. They are to have no meat, fish, dessert and many more to mention.
They are limited to one room or space.
They are declared as bad luck and untouchable.

But I guess to fully end the attraction dillemma sati would be better choice.

Now you seem to be confusing Hinduism with "traditional Islam".
Yes, there are even places in Muslim countries where widows and divorcees are treated extremely badly. But the "untouchable", "sati" stuff you seem to be getting from Hinduism. Though I wouldn't be surprised if some jahil village-y Muslims do/believe in that stuff.

I have always maintained that. One can wear hijab for climate condition. But it is wrong to attribute it to God.

This is interesting.
Both Hijabis and skimpy clothe women do not want themselves to be seen as something sexual. In other words, "sex" is the problem. I guess it is best to just take some hormon to become asexual?

Or maybe many men are the problem?
But it's true, people in general are becoming too sexualized.

God bless you too!

.

I agree. Both should dress properly. Technically, a woman can be blamed for a rape only if it is always known that the place where this crime occurs has a history of that. Fraternity parties would fall under that.

I don't think I'd still blame the woman for the rape itself. You think a woman goes to a party expecting to be raped?

I think the problem lies with the man if he feels sexually turned on by women's hair and feels he can't control himself as a result..

As an example, I really like long hair on guys and there are other women who do too. Doesn't mean they should cover it up for us because we find it attractive, haha.
We are in control of our own actions.

But of course I think if a woman wants to wear a headscarf, feels more modest and/or protected by it then sure do it! I just think we should all be less judgmental of eachother. Headscarf or no headscarf.

But that doesn't mean I don't agree with decent dressing. Especially when it comes to body. You can be of good moral character with or without decent dressing but you can also do both together.

But wait, if a man picks on me then it is my fault and that I do not respect myself?

A man is supposed to be in control of himself and be modest even if women around him are wearing bikinis. Women are sometimes (or often) blamed for rape because of their clothing. This victim blaming is completely wrong.
What you do, how you dress, is for God. And yourself.

I doubt that the recomendation in 24.31 are about modesty. About modesty, if it is omething to do with sexual temptation I think it is in 24.30 and in the beginning of 24.31. the rest of 24.31 is not about sexual temptation, and the part abut the chest may well be for the ame reasons that pig is forbidden, health question, because obviously to suckle a child you have to uncover chest. Unless we are seduced by modern sense of "decorum", where you can show off your chest be it keeping it covered or uncovered but you are scorned if you do not hide to suckle a child.

Covered or uncovered is no sinonym of decency or "modesty", or a sinonyme of the opposite, whatever is meant by modesty, because as yet nobody has given a difinition or a distinction from other properties.

Salaam

That's your opinion. I believe clothing to be a part of decency and I feel that modest dressing is in line with Islam.

It's not just about "not attracting males". Even many decently dressed women get picked on by dirty men.

So it's also about respecting yourself and being decent. Simple.

It's also mentioned in the Qur'an, for example, that women should cover their chests. So there is obviously some kind of criteria for decent/modest dressing.

Both can be done. One doesn't have to get rid of modest dressing to focus on character modesty or get rid of character modesty to focus on dressing. But of course, we're all humans and have our struggles.
May Allah guide us closer to the right path and help us be humble.

Modesty is something Islamic too though. Wearing decent and appropriate clothes is a good thing. Of course, that's not the only thing needed to be modest. Humbleness, actions, words etc all count towards it.

Oh yeah, "wajadaha", as it says in the verse.

There is this video https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMHnkQwb3ZQ

Thanks! I'll watch it, in'sha'Allah. I subscribed to that channel fairly recently actually because I wanted to check them out.

That's alright! )

May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.

Ameen.

"For them is the abode of peace with their Lord. He will be their Protecting Friend because of what they used to do." - 6127.

Greetings and peace, all group

@SilentSacrifice welcome

The Qur'an contains hadith. It is just that extra-Qur'anic hadith is not needed for the deen. That doesn't mean that extra-Qur'anic hadith is totally without any redeeming value--just that it isn't required in any sense of the word.

Thanks!

I know. I just don't think that all hadith are bad or weird.

Did you lurk for long?

Why? I've known of this site for a few years now and even made a few posts back then but not much as far as I remember.

Why is that some Musilms are so desperate to get rid of all prohibitions and duties from the Qur'an? Why would we be here if were allowed to do anything we want?

That's your opinion and how you view it. Not everyone views the Qur'an the same way you do.

And that "muddy water" verse, I don't think it's the first time I've seen that verse being used to (somehow) "show" that the Qur'an claims the earth is flat..
Look up the word "wajada". Even the popular Sahih International translation wrote in brackets.

Also being "free-minded" shouldn't mean that you leave all that you believe in and do whatever you want.

I don't wear one and sometimes I wonder if I should be..
Still, it's fine if women do choose to wear it.