CDC, WHO, and others provide reliable data.

I'm not the one running away from reliable data.
What LGBT folks do is not part of it. It goes directly against the quran.

You didn't quote CDC or WHO even once. You only linked to news articles who quote these reports, but haven't shown me the actual reports even once. Yet you ignore this argument, despite me pointing it out many times. The fact that neither of us knows what the report actually says and what the context of this report is, means that makes your own argument invalid. Yet you keep on using invalid statistics to desperately proof your point which does not seem to align with reality at all. If i know the true context of the reports, then i can critically answer to them. Now i can only tell it's most likely taken out of its context. The actual report probably talks about the context of the people they surveyed in a detailed way. The news article however does not mention anything about that. If you truly think a small sample of the people without any context is representative for everybody in a whole country, you don't understand one of the core principles of scientific research. There's a big difference between 'studies suggest' and 'studies confirm'. No matter the context, considering the relatively small sample, this research only suggests. If you keep on insisting they literally researched every single LGBT person in the country, whilst they clearly didn't... Well, i do not understand your stubbornness at all.

Keep this in mind ignorance does not change the reality itself, it only changes your perception of reality. Math is not an excuse for ignorance.
One thing i know if 'facts' are not aligned with reality, then the facts are incomplete. Serious scientists always admit their research isn't complete, and the ones who claim they know everything never get taken seriously, except by sensationalist news websites.

Also please stop generalising 'the LGBT community' as if it was a homogenous - no pun intended - community. It is not. The so-called community you are familiar with probably goes against the Quran, the majority of the communities i'm familiar with don't go against it at all, or are 'up for debate'. And when taking the very low references to LGBT issues in the Quran in the context it's written in and the context of the actual world, it doesn't even once say it is wrong in se, but wrong depending on the reasonings behind it. Again, i repeat context. Or do you think God condemns context? (of course he doesnt!)
As i said before, these numbers seem realistic in some communities. But it does not sound realistic at all when taking in mind all the different types of communities that exist.

I suggest you discontinue your involvement in this topic to spare yourself from further face loss.

@imrankhawaja that sounds plausible. But again, it only tells you about some homosexuals, which are still a minority, no matter how you toss and turn the facts. Or do you all still think we live in an eighties gay-disco-orgy and they're all dressed like He-Man?

its mean you are still under construction.

same like underconstruction building, its under construction women.

aww dnt worry about these posts , it was part of fun , we always talk serious quranic issue so today i was about to change the rythum

I was actually referring to the fact that i haven't watched the full series so i can't call myself an obsessive fan yet ;D

And yeah, i noticed it was getting weird. (but my conversation with savage carrot wasn't any less weird)

@ Savage carrot, i meant myself (though i can't call myself a fully-fledged pegasister as i've only completed 2 seasons so far) ;D

his makeup was like womens but his punches in self defence was fully male version punches rotfl rotfl

I know most cisgender heterosexual females are capable of punching in a fully male way I don't see what's relevant about that.

and police was in confusion what is this case rotfl people who try to make fun of nature and system they face consequences,

Strange you mention this, but nobody in your post made fun of nature. If make-up were unnatural, we'd assume that hunter-gatherers wouldn't use make-up, as they are not so-called 'civilised', but they still do.

It is true that some people are in kind of jobs, there's not many alternatives in some countries to do better jobs. (and the majority does try)
I'm not sure what country you are referring to, as i was reffering to souteast asia in general. The names they are referred to varies in each and every country.

By your description, the person you mentioned is a transvestite/cross dresser. Whilst this is inside the transgender umbrella, its different in nature than those who feel their body doesnt match up. That is probably indeed someone whose desire for femininity doesnt go beyong clothing and make-up, or only 'expressing' without having to change anything. That still doesnt justify any kind of rape, violence and certainly not gang rape, though. And an sich, there isn't anything wrong with dressing up as a female for the purpose of entertaining (even if probably the quran does say it is wrong). If it goes beyond entertaining (sexual actions), then it is wrong. Still depending on the financial and personal situation of the person involved of course. Also the client is just as wrong as the one providing the service.

I have never once seen an Indian movie, i'm sorry. (well that's not true, i accidentally overlooked an indian action movie someone else was watching in the same airplane i was in, but that's not relevant) The countries i'm familiar with are the indochinese subcontinent and islands, rather than the indian subcontinent. Though all of them have a medieval hindu heritage and a large amount of people not fitting heteronormativity (probably even larger than the indian subcontinent). The indian subcontinent is however significantly poorer than the indochinese, which means more of them will do jobs beyond any self respect. I can only say for a fact that the conservative-christian Philippines (who also have hindu heritage, though they deny it themselves), the 'ladyboys' are a common daily occurence, and most of them are everyday people and not just camgirls or hookers. (for example the cleaning lady of the grandmother of my partner) Though 'ladyboy' is a term that includes transsexuals, cross-dressers and gays and is also eroticised by porn, so it's hard to know from just viewing them which category they belong. Theres also a large amount of them who are so passable to my western eyes that it's impossible to notice they are, suggesting there were even more than the many i saw. (and i was not inside the capital of the country, which would distort the image of regular people)

And a comment on the following posts what the... ?

Lol, not far enough brony...

The female word would be 'pegasister'. Gosh, i lost all my credibility now, did i? ;D I suppose you're not actually muslim but a haruhiist?

@ sinem, i just read ur comments pointing out u dnt know aisha and if i am not wrong you are male with female combination

I guess that depends on your defenition (which is the whole point of the topic in the first place). I am what you would consider the same as her son/daughter (we don't know how this evolved, so i'll keep the slash in there), but the difference is i'm an adult person, and thus far better qualified to claim such things about myself than a teenager, as for teenagers this often is just a phase, however, when these feelings are still around in your late twenties, they're not ever going to dissapear, because they're inherent to your nature.
(also lot of transgendered people only realise it when they reach an age around 16 and 18 when the effects of male hormones (or female hormones in case of female-to-male transgendered people) start to become truly visible and the contrast between your personality and your body/instinctive nature becomes apparent. As opposed to the shallow reasons like clothing or toys that you find in kids.

I'm what i refer to as semi-closeted. By which i mean i haven't started the 'transition' (reasons for that are lack of financial/professional stability and other issues not related to this), but i am open about it to all people important (partner, closest family, closest friends). Also as i mentioned a few times, i prefer to think such a decision trough and trough before i do it, because rushing into it will only cause damage to myself and other people in the long term. Though i've had some toe-in-the-water experiences/efforts, which led me to the conclusion that shallow stuff as simply changing clothes does not make me feel more or less feminine. Another problem is confusion between gender issues and things like autism and ADD/ADHD. Often people who originally got a (wrongful) autism-diagnosis later turn out to be transgendered instead, and there is currently a lot of research going on about these relations of these 3 'mental handicaps' (not illnesses), according to my psychiatrist. And i did need to understand more about all of those issues so i can distinguish the specific characteristics of them and try to seperate them from each other. And it seems autism isn't much of an issue (only the outside appearance), especially as my way of reasoning is totally different to them. (i met a lot of people).
I mention this, because i got a feeling that sooner or later someone would come up with autism to try to troll the discussion, but i beat them to it by confirming there is actual serious research going on about that relation. Theres much overlap in behaviour, though the way of thinking is different. With age, symptons have lessened and i'm more able to express myself like i really am somewhat emotional and someone who loves to talk and discuss and i'm somewhat of a chaotic personality and i feel uncomfortable with structured and simplistic things. I'm more a person who thinks and talks between the lines and outside of the box, and has lot of trouble thinking inside of the box. Quite the opposite of an autist thus, however i haven't been able to express myself that way in the past, which led to the wrongful diagnosis. (it's possible that some traces of autism are inside of me, but they are not significant, and i found out they were mostly learned behaviour from my parents rather than inherent nature)

I've also been meeting specialists and fellow trans people (and autists too) But as i mentioned before, that 'public scene' is full of shallow people, which is probably what most people see. But i've also been able to talk to genuine people who acted normal. This is however not what the media sees. That scene is also not the 'mass drag queen disco orgy' stereotype as portrayed in movies, but just calm meeting places. Though those wild bars probably exist. That's not quite relevant, but a certain person seemed to think it is. The average homosexual does not look like Boy George and the average transgendered person does not look like Cher. They actually look like normal everyday people.

I'm also lucky that my partner comes from a Southeast Asian county where trans people are an everyday occurence. Having been there, i can indeed confirm that in that part of the world, you see lots of them every day, and that is only counting the ones where you can see it. I suppose this is partially due to the former Hindu influence in the whole of South Asia (which are today day both Buddhist, Christian and Muslim countries), and partially because those places are very densily populated.

Here in Europe, though, trans people are less accepted than in South/East Asia, and as i mentioned some pages ago, the scenes are somewhat elitist, so most people remain closeted or avoid being related to the scene. This however does not mean they don't exist, as a specific person tried to suggest. At the same time he also tried to suggest everyone in Europe is trans. Go figure. Though it must be said the public perception, the perception by specialists and the perception of the trans scene themselves are vastly different than my first attempts around 10 years ago. This because the young generation is more realistic about gender dysphoria, as they have a lot more access to clear and correct information. (especially as there are some official information website related to clinics, as opposed to the questionable blogs 10 years ago. And slowly the people who don't fit in to the typical 'i knew it as a kid' story are starting to find each other. The specialists also seem to notice that they focussed on the wrong people in their research.
It has been argued that a lot of people regret their decision. But looking closer, those people usually had many personality problems, others rushed in too fast and others had totally unrealistic expectations. The current generation is a lot more realistic.

See, again i explain a lot more than i'm suppossed to, haha.

And yeah, i'd like to repeat that indeed i'm not ungrateful about how i was made. It is quite painful and i'm defenitely not happy joy joy about it, but i try to just make the best out of and try not to hurt others in the process.

Never thought I'd read that here but awesome. Don't be discouraged by some who think they've got it all figured out, they're everywhere. You've done a great job of responding in a classy way (and no, I don't particularly like Trump).

Brohoof!
(taking it too far?)

i mean, many of it's adherents promote aids and HIV as being great and totally cool, or how we should all live in a world where everyone has aids

Okay, sorry, that does end the discussion. I wrote a whole fell-funded answer (as i always did in this topic), but after saying insulting things like this, there is no point in continuing to talk with you. If you didn't understand it, my last comment to HP was cynical, just to say 'what you want to hear'

You're alienated from reality, and as long as you don't face reality, you'll only become more frustrated. You've been constantly claiming things about the west are just not true and not even realistic, and you keep on insisting on reliability of data which is by current technology impossible to be reliable or complete. Math revolves around one thing reliable data. That's what all math teachers (and physics teachers and chemisty teachers and biology teachers and geography teachers, etc. have told me) If you keep on insisting that data you referred to is reliable, whilst ignoring my very valid points i talked about, well, then you're just trolling. You can troll people, but you can't troll God.
If you're going to use guesswork to make your math work, then your argument against someone else who uses estimations is invalid. It does not matter how statistics work or not, because if you went outside, you'd see that at this point in history, the statistics are totally not matching up with the reality. I am confident that this will be possible in the future and we'll both live to see that day, but right now, statistics are just not complete enough. Using my intuition is more reliable than using statistics, because unlike your statistics, my intuition matches the real world pretty good.

A fact that is very visible to the naked eye is that God created a diverse and beautiful world. If you don't experience it that way, you have to argue with the creator. If the real world doesnt match up with your interpretation of the Quran (and it clearly doesn't), then you are reading it wrong, because the way i read it, it makes perfect sense.

If you think you know the west better than everyone who lives here... well... facepalm
I also do not consider western values superior. Why would i even consider a religion that is hated by many people (islam) if i cared only about western values?

But i'll return the favour and say a bold accusation towards you if you keep up this antiworldly attitude you'll end up being an otaku whose only social interaction is your waifu.

That post on the 7th page of the thread I made was actually meant for Aisha. I do not know why but for some reason I thought you were Aisha under a different username. Do you have any relation to her?

That would explains why you never responded to begin with. Misunderstanding.

Although, I would have to remain firm and truthful with you.

It is indeed a Great thing that Allah has guided you to Himself, IF you are among the truthful. I am genuinely happy for that. I went back and read your OP.

My friend you came here for answers so give me ear and overlook our bad start.
Shall you?

I genuinely appreciate this comment and i do not blame you for mixing us up. No i do not have any relation to Aisha and she seems to be inactive today. I just bumped upon the topic she created some years ago by googling my questions, because it was relevant to me. So far i've had lot of answers to my questions, and i do not regret considering islam. The way i read it, it matches up to the reality.
I totally expected having to go into some arguments and even though it is hard to not lose my patience when some people are ignorant about the real world, it's a good preparation for when i go public with my transition, because i'll always have to face such opposition. Therefore avoiding opposition is not the right thing. God is testing me if i'm truly a woman by putting my trough these trails, and it makes perfect sense that he does so. It's by no means fun, but i'm accepting the challenge. The other test is being totally honest with my close ones, and i'm doing that too.
I apologise for any bold statements. Yet though i still think your points towards Aisha weren't really helpful to her either (if she were able to read it). I think my suggestion towards her of 'wait until your kid is an adult' was something we can both agree on though. Correct me if i'm wrong.

No I conveyed my message clearly to you.
I now see your position. You just follow your desires. So do whatever you will, Allah Sees and Hears All. He will judge among us and show you everything you did.

Because being able to quoting random Quran verses and take them out of their context certainly makes you better in the eye of God. If you believe you are superior because of that, than be my guest. I won't try to change you. But if you talk, i answer. God didn't create language to troll, he created language so you would discuss things and then try to understand things by discussing with other observers.

I looked back at your post, and all you do is claim you have 'evidence' but first of all you don't explain what exactly you are trying to prove and second of all, it doesnt prove anything.
At least i'm honest enough to admit that most things i say are estimations, observations and intuition (which is usually sufficiently reliable, because it's the part of me that is in connection to God, if you don't feel connected to God, well, isn't it about time your start to do so?)
But apparently you have so-called evidence. You then back up your evidence by using verses that don't support your opinions at all. Though you don't really seem to bother to explain what your opinions are either. You prefer to talk in mysteries and hide behind the fa?ade of the Quran.
If abusing the Quran is your way of proving things. Well, then i hope for you God will forgive you. But if he forgives you, i won't object to that, because it's his decision, and he has the right to do so. And what if he forgives me? Are you going to take God to court because he does something conflicting with your image of the Quran? If you're that certain that your interpretations are proven facts, then i dare you to dake God to court for creating gender diversity! Yes of course it's ridiculous to question God! And that's what you're doing, you question his creation of trans people. (and other here also just try to prove it an put it on media, trends or capitalism) Look at the mirror before you dare to accuse someone of not respecting God's creation.

What you did there are bring up stuff like 'being ungrateful'. Have i once mentionted that i'm ungrateful? No, God made me a transgendered person, and i do not blame him for that. I'm thankful that i've been lucky to experience so many things. Isn't denying my true self closer to being ungrateful than adapting to my true self?
You use the argument 'man and women', but when confronted to the obvious fact that the distinction between man and woman isn't clear-cut, you just go blurgh. And how can you blame someone for not reproducing when the world suffers massive overpopulation, whilst many children are parentless, and people like me would be happy to give shelter to parentless kids. Are you going to take care for those parentless kids? Well, i would be delighted to do so! Or are you going to claim those parentless kids should just die and rot and nobody has the right to care for them because God wants it like that? Sounds like a certain western religion to me. That religion is called Capitalism.
You complain about rejecting Gods creation (which is very diverse), but the only thing you do is closing your eyes to Gods beautiful creations if you don't like them. If it exists, it's created by God, and it is created for a purpose. If you don't like the idea of having a purpose, well yeah, again, then go take God to court if you are unhappy with it.

I don't have to answer. I answer because i feel it's my responsability to to do so.

And your GMO argument is even more irrelevant. How can you compare destroying natural diversity to defending natural diversity? If you choose to refuse to understand the world as it is, how can you claim that someone else disrespects it? Claiming something is unnatural because you don't like it doesnt make it unnatural. Claiming something is unnatural because you refuse to read the Quran without worldly context doesnt prove it is unnatural. You can't abuse the Quran forever to justify your own dislikes and fears, i think it's time for you to stop being a child and face the world as it is. And when you dare to quote holy words, make sure they are relevant.

I do not 'just follow my own desires'. I have conversations with people who are directly involved with me, so i try to not hurt them. I am not without sin, of course. But calling me selfish? Yeah sure. I'm doing all this effort for selfish reason you know. Because you know what? I want to take over the world and make all muslims gay and infect them with HIV! Because i'm an illuminati lizard jew hired by the KGB, thats why!

You never addressed my arguments which came straight from Quran and Reason

Because they had nothing to do with the subject. If you insist i give you a reaction, you're free to explain their relevancy.

valid empirical studies are always relevant

explain how 1 in 5 LGBT homosexuals have HIV? what kind of lifestyle does a group has to lead to even get close to that?
Agan, this is not exclusive to LGBT, with most African countries with their high HIV-ratings in general as a good example.

i am not at the wrong place, because the quran says to study the world around us, and that's what i do, studying the world around includes empirical studies and research, which means observing the world around us and making accurate statements about it

the CDC doesn't lie when it puts out the statistics, and many statistics are not made popular and are kept in the research papers because of illogical emotional reactions these studies could trigger in the general populace

Statistics are meaningless when there's no context. If city A has a number of 2000 registered crimes per year and city B a number of 4000 registered crimes, that doesnt mean city B automatically has more crimes. It could also mean the police of city B did their job a lot better than that of city A. Statistics are rather worthless if you look at the pure numbers. Because 'closeted' people will never pop up into the statistics, but their number is extremely big. Every statistic should be taken with a grain of salt, and emotionality is a huge factor in understanding the whole picture.
If the North-Korean goverment will tell you 100% of their population is heterosexual, are you seriously going to believe such a source (an official one), without taking it with a grain of salt? Usually emotional estimations are a bit closer to the real world than close statistics. At least when it comes to things that are not accepted like LGBT. They aren't accepted in the west, they are tolerated. Please understand the difference between these words.

all the "gay pride" parades
folsom street fair
all the endless shoehorning of homo characters in all media possible

this is proof that lgbtism is being portrayed as being the hot new thing to be by the media and it has its effects on the young impressionable minds

it's not my problem though if entire generations are being told to be weak low energy multisexual pansexual catkins

I'm not in favour of those pride parades either, as they don't serve any purpose. But again, those parades are 'tolerated', not 'encouraged'.
But to tell you the truth, it is exactly that type of media coverage which prevents people from outing themselves. It doesnt encourage them at all, it discourages them. Because the media portrays us totally unrealistic, and the pride parades are totally over-the-top and most LGBT people are truly ashamed of those things. So yeah, your point perhaps makes sense from an outsider perspective, but if you've talked to lots of closeted or semi-closeted people, you'll see a different picture. Again i liked to repeat that 'those who scream the loudest are not representative of the majority'. But that is also the case for heterosexuals or religious extremists or pretty much everything you can imagine.

give empirical studies for that

basically you're saying that many people are forced to have kids by societal pressure and that they hate it

so what would be the solution? counter societal pressure to make everyone a LGBTist ?

you just lost all credibility
I havent implied that thing about kids at all. Though it is the case that there is a concencus amongst heterosexual couples to have no kids and no marriage. Marriage and family nowadays is considered backwards, and the ones who want kids or families it the most are usually the LGBT people. (and that's a heartbreaking dilemma, though we don't really have a choice) I'm not really sure where you get this from.
Bisexual, Asexual, Bigender and Agender have nothing to do with the desire to have kids or not. Besides, for most of these groups, there's not much problem fitting into heteronormativity. However that doesnt mean they are hetero. Not having sexual desires does not mean you are physically unable to have sex, and being attracted to both genders does not usually pose any problems, as eventually they will choose either a heterosexual or a homosexual relationship. Usually a heterosexual because homosexuality is still frowned upon. Agender just means you're trying to be as genderneutral as possible, and bigender means you want to use both your male and female qualities. This doesnt usually pose problems, unless your partner/family/workplaces is extremely conservative, and insisting on media-based gender norms. Which is unfortunately still the case at some places.

Empirical studies see my point above. They don't give a representative image of society. And no, in an anonymous poll, closeted people will still lie about their truth, because they're still scared someone will read it. It doesnt make logical sense, but most of them have such little self-confidence that they will never admit it, not even anonymous. You don't seem to grasp what being closeted really means. Then there is also the problem of people being in denial. Are you seriously claiming that you're going to be able to put that into reliable statistics?

you just lost all credibility
closeted does not matter when the polling is done anonymously

if you knew anything about statistics and probability, you would know it very well

so you totally reject CDC research on the issue?

you don't even know what the CDC is, and who the WHO is

If anything, i only gained credebility, because i'm in favour of having a realistic representation of the world, rather than just believing only what i see. It is a fact that you can not put things into statistics when the information needed for these statistics is not available. Am i right in saying that you need to have a lot of information for statistics to be reliable? Yes i am. You are simply ignoring the fact that your statistics only give a representation of what is recorded. Or are you really going to claim everything is recorded?

Yes, i'm very, very critical to American sources. After all America is a christian-conservative and ?bercapitalist country. Every official source there has to be taken with a grain of salt. I'm not saying their statistics are wrong in se. I'm mostly saying they don't show the whole picture.

And The Who is a British rockband from long ago But yeah, to be honest i did have to google them. It's probably because anyone quoting them translates their names as well. When translating them, it does ring a bell. Then again, the news websites you linked to are not the WHO or CDC. They just quote them, and you know how media works they just quote the interesting parts and put a lot of things out of their context. ) Especially not American media. Link me an official document from those organisations themselves, and i consider it a legit, but link me to random news websites, and i don't consider them as legit, unless if i'm familiar with them.

did you know that in europe it's illegal to make statistics based on ethnicity? this simply proves you're not interested in real empirical studies, only the ones that please your emotions

do i need to pull out STD statistics comparing normal people to LGBTist people?

reminder 1 in 5 homosexuals in the USA have HIV

they didn't catch that desperately like you imply

Yup, and you we both know the actual number of homosexuals with HIV is far lower. Or are you still keep on persisting that statistics are a good representation of the massive amount of unknown information. 1 in 5 open homosexuals? That's possible, because people like them are indeed vulnerable to those rotten apples who spread the virus. 1 in 5 of all homosexuals in the USA? Don't be ridiculous. Please be a little more realistic in your claims.
I do believe that there will be a day when statistics will know almost everything (and maybe instances like the CIA etc. already do), but that will take a few decades. Statistics are getting more and more reliable each and every year, but we're still very very far from that day. And on some things statistics are reliable like the amount of people being born genetically male/female. That's a reliable statistic, but even then, there are still people on the world who statistically don't exist as they have never been registered, so we can only estimate their numbers by extending our logic beyond pure math and use worldly knowledge. No, we can not know for sure, that's why i estimate. But when it comes to LGBT issues, estimations from insiders are still more realistic than statistics from the outsiders. I know a lot of outsiders can't grasp it, but it makes perfect sense. You only have to look in daily situations. Anyway, at this point, estimations are more valuable than statistics, because there's a systematic lack of statistics. If you keep on repeating your point, well, good luck getting confused that reality will never match up to your logic.

mathematics is not troll

"It is also a statistic that people not fitting into heteronormativity or cisgender are significant in number and my estimations are that they are around 50-75%."

a number that came out of nowhere

it's a fact that lgbtism is a trend in the USA today, and the cool kids all want to be some kind of special snowflake

we see where this is taking the USA, they started talking about STD epidemics

bravo!

i'll give you a few sources because all you seem capable of doing is talk emotionally

http//usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2011-05-23-Sex-survey-revelations-on-gay-identity_n.htm
http//www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/14/citing-exploding-hiv-epidemic-who-says-for-first-time-all-gay-men-should-take-antitretroviral-drugs/
http//www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/americans-have-no-idea-how-few-gay-people-there-are/257753/
http//www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/apr/7/study-sees-gays-as-17-percent-of-population/
http//www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/23/AR2010092306828.html
http//healthland.time.com/2010/09/26/study-20-of-homosexual-men-are-hiv-positive-but-only-half-know-it/

it's a fact that western style LGBTism is wicked and based on marxist beliefs

No, mathematics is no troll, but you didn't use mathematics in a relevant way. Yes i talk a lot emotionally. Because that's exactly what gender dysphoria is about. And also because girls use more emotion, rather than cold math.
You can't explain everything with math. If you don't believe in anything emotional or spiritual, i'm afraid you're at the wrong place.

You sure don't seem to have much understanding about how 'The West' really is. There is no such thing as gay/trans being fashionable. Being gay/trans is extremely tough, so someone doing it for the fashion will be getting desillusioned very, very quick. Maybe famous artists can get away with it, but i never once considered big stars as representative and most people who are past their teens don't consider them as role models either.
My estimation was not based on gay or trans, which i both estimated between 5 and 20, and 5 are the official estimates here in the Benelux at least. But mostly the big amount of bisexual, asexual, bigender and agender people. A lot of people you know personally do fit into the spectrums of these, but because they resemble heteronormativity enough, it causes no significant dysphoria to them. However, to claim the majority of people is cisgender or hundred percent heterosexual is just being ignorant.
But i also said it's an estimation. I hope you understand the meaning of that world. Statistics are somewhat useless in this subjects, because the enourmous amount of closeted people. Estimations are based on logically extending the statistics we have. Statistics are only the top of an Iceberg. Also it's no suprise the previous era you didn't hear about gay or trans people, because of the big influence of the ultraconservative Vatican (who are today thankfully reduced to insignificance in most of Europe (i'm not against Christians, don't get me wrong))
Claiming it's a fashion or trendy is by all means - forgive me the word - bullshit, and means you obviously haven't met any real trans or gay people. I'm an insider, so i know anyone who thinks its trendy gives up very soon. There's no way they'll survive in the circumstances we have to survive in. Doing it out of rebellion also has the same effect those who are doing it won't last very long. Do you really think it is that easy to out yourself as gay or trans here in the west? We're discriminated against just as much as people discriminate against muslims or other races. Yes, it could be a hell lot worse, but please don't think we're in an easy position. Yes we do have the luxury to express our opinion and i'm really thankful that i'm capable of doing so. Tolerated, but not accepted.
Though i must admit that those who do it out of rebellion or trend - though very small in numbers - are the ones that scream the loudest. But it's not hard to pick out those who are fake. They just scream empty slogans and repeat the same slogans. The only thing i'm repeating is that our numbers are very much higher than all of you suspect. But the real trans people are usually those who are afraid of showing it, and not those who scream the loudest for attention. Only when you manage to get in talks to closeted people, you get an idea of how big our numbers truly are.
I'm also repeating that these phenomenons are not only relatively common but also completely natural. The big historical presence of gay/trans people in asian, pacific and some native american cultures does also suggest it has nothing to do with western values. That it's certainly nothing new or trendy.
And i only have to laugh about that marxism comment. The west is extremely, but really extremely anti-marxist and anti-socialist the last couple of years. The public opinion is very much against these ideas. Despite having all their comforts to thank to those ideas.

The links you showed don't look very legit. I prefer to believe the excellent gender researchers here in Europe over random American media. Especially as the US is still rather conservative when it comes to LGBT-issues. And perhaps that's just my European pride that i can't take anything Americans say serious.
And the fact that you try to bring STD's into the discussion is just pure trolling. We all know sleeping with a cisgender heterosexual s*** or a transgender s*** makes no difference STD-wise, and that non-perverted trans and gay people are just as clean as non-perverted heterosexuals.
Though it is a fact that trans/gay people have a bigger risk to exposion, because the possible partners choices for us are very limited. So we are vulnerable to rotten apples if we get desperate. But that is not our fault, but rather that one guy/girl who goes to bed with everyone. Please don't compare us to the rotten apples. Yes, the gay clubbing scene is up to no good, but that is defenitely not representative. And no, the trans sex industy is up to no good, but that is defenitely not representative either. Despite for example how everyone thinks all trans people in Thailand are prostitutes, that's actually are very small number of the total trans population over there. There are just so many trans people that most people can't comprehend. Just like i met lot of trans people who are living normal everyday lives when i visited the Phillippines. They're defenitely not all infected, either. Yes, they are more vulnerable, and there are defenitely a bunch of rotten apples who ruin their reputation for the rest of the world. But seeing the reality is very different. (and refreshing to see them being 'normal&#039
Besides, STD-epidemics are nothing new. They've been recorded trough history a lot in other contexts as well, just like war and poverty. Is the whole of the southern half of Africa gay because there are so many STD's over there? No, of course not.

@Man Of Faith. I guess we have to agree to partially disagree about the soul. A soul does have a gender, just like the body has a gender, and the society also puts you in a gender. The society part is the one you should ignore, i think we all agree on that. And the other 2 can still be in conflict.
It's indeed possible that these feelings are traces of past lives. It sounds plausible to me.
I guess you can indeed say that most of desires are coming from the body (which are my desires for male heterosexuality, the ones that feel unnatural to me and cause me pain), but those feel in conflict with something which is obviously not directed by any hormones, and that is my heterosexual female desires. Where can that come from other than the soul? A brain defect probably, as my brain perceives different than my body perceives. But then i don't see what is wrong trying to correct the anomaly and adapt the body to how the brain is functioning. Adapting the brain to the body is not possible with current technology, and theraphies has so far proven to be ineffective. Except perhaps brainwashing, but i'm sure you're all against brainwashing. Besides, i think the brain is our connection to the soul (what we refer to methaphorically as the heart), so changing the connection to the soul will only cause more anomalies.
And spiritual logic be careful using the word 'logic', keep in mind that female logic can be very different different than male logic. Probably because they are better in connection with the spiritual side of things, but less good in connecting with the earhtly side of things. There are some things we girls 'just know', and very often, science ultimately proves us to be right (of course not always). Also please don't use math when discussing with people who are visuable bad with math. Neither use math when discussion spirituality. Yeah sure, the Quran does feature some intelligent math, but it's mostly a spiritual book. Female brains work different. And that transgender brains are partially female is an established fact. (which has been discussed in the beginning pages). And that my brain can't function in a male way is a proven the hard way. Though i am capable of imitating male behaviour, i personally don't understand one bit of how it's supposed to work and how i'm supposed to think. I'm sorry if i can't follow the same logic sometimes.
Everything i say sounds perfectly logical to me, and everything you say sounds perfectly logical to you. There's nothing as subjective as logic.

A lot of people have periodically problems like this (hence my claim that most people are bigender or agender). However, keep in mind that i'm not a teenager who's just exploring herself, but an adult who tried to fit in and failed many times. (my current solution is trying to set up my life (relationship, work, etc.) in a gender neutral way, so i can accomodate possible/likely future changes.

Anyway, i can keep on reacting, but i think i don't have anything more to add. I'll gladly debate about emotional/spiritual matters, or about the things i know from the official gender research facilities in my country or inside information from trans forums and the trans scene.
I unfortunately can not discuss with non-arguments and i will ignore links that don't look trustworthy. Neither will i discuss facts or claims that have no relevancy whatsoever.
No i'm not able to quote everything with sources either, as most things i say are from memory and i don't remember where exactly i read it. I apologise for not having the proper sources to back up my statements. If you choose not to take me serious because of that, i guess i can't blame you. I just hope you believe me and my intuition.

@ Man Of Faith Your post seems to assume that gender dysphoric feelings are driven by instinctual feelings, whilst it's driven by feelings by the soul. It's the male instinctual feelings that cause the dysphoria, the detachement from their own body. No matter how hard you try to contol these instincts or not, if they don't align to your soul, it causes pain to your soul.
A transgender operation has as purpose to try to align the body and their instincts as much as possible to the identity of the soul. Not vice versa.
Doing surgery is not 'giving in to the instinct', it is exactly done to eliminate the instinct. It is exactly resisting those male instincts what causes pain in the soul of a transgender female.
Please understand that transsexuality is not a 'sexual orientation' (therefore i prefer the use of the word transgender), and sexual preference is totally irrelevant to their 'decision' (altough it isn't really a decision, as God made us with this dysphoria, for a reason only he knows)
For the same reason, a few posts ago, i explained the difference between sexual attraction and emotional attraction between people. Homosexuality is also a wrong word (i prefer to say a word like gay) as it implies people are only doing it for sexual reasons, ignoring the fact that a significant part of them does it for emotional reasons. Again it is not a choice, as you can't control your soul. You can only try to control the body, and that's the whole point of the discussion.

"different" sexualities and "gender diversity" is a meme

the fact is this the vast majority of the people born on earth are either male or female, and only an infinitesimal portion is NOT that

it's all about statistics

we can't change society as if transexuality was the norm or as if homosexuality was the norm, and in the west, they are changing their societies as if homosexuald, transexuality, and other such abnormalities were the norm

I know i shouldnt respond to trolls. But i'm friendly, so i will reply.
It's obviously not a meme. If it were a meme, it would be a new thing, popularised by the internet. But if you had some knowledge about it you'd see it clearly isn't. Internet just makes them more visible. No-one ever has claimed to be trans or gay because it's a fashionist thing.
The reason people like us are rising in numbers is not because internet popularises it. It's because a lot has not been registrated in the past, and therefore, present-day statistics are more reliable. (besides, archeology seems to suggest it's always been there and it's always been a relatively normal thing. Though generally not accepted, it's always been there)

Not exactly what's happening here in the west though. Society is still rather heteronormative and people not fitting into the binary still don't have a lot of rights.
It is also a statistic that people not fitting into heteronormativity or cisgender are significant in number and my estimations are that they are around 50-75%. That is of course including people who aren't far from the cisgender heteronormative, but are distinct enough to consider them different. (mostly making up bisexual, bigendered, asexual and agendered people) Whilst homosexuality and the transgender spectrum are estimated to be 5 to 20% of the population. Official statistics will rather say 1 to 5%, but we all know there exist a lot of closeted people and people in denial.
My estimations are that heterosexuality and cisgenders are making up a mere 25 to 50%, so claiming it's the norm is just as ridiculous.

It's clear you're underestimating how normal these 'abnormalities' are. Statistics don't mean a lot in some places, because in countries where 'abnormal' people are oppressed, you'll find that the vast majority is hiding it or in denial, therefore the statistics will be low. For example, China is 100% atheist. But nobody really believes that over 1 and a half billion people are all atheist... Whilst in countries where these things are normal (for example Thailand, Philippines, even muslim countries like Indonesia), you see that lot of people are trans/gay and that meeting trans and gay persons is indeed a daily occurence and you're certain to have one in your family. They aren't accepted, but claiming they don't exist is impossible over there.

So unfortunately, your fact is not a fact at all. So thanks for trying to anger me by trolling, but it didn't work, i'm not angry at all.

We can indeed not fully change society to minorities. But society should accomodate for major minories, because they're simply too large to ignore. You can't go claiming the majority of people fit into the cisgender heteronormative idea, because they clearly don't. And the Quran does not claim that either. Because the Quran values scientific research, and therefore scientific breaktroughs will allow you to read the same passages in the Quran in a different light.
Are we the norm? No. Are we normal? Yes.

If you have trouble accepting things that aren't even new. Well, then i'm sorry for you, but sooner or later you'll have to accept that some things exist, even if you'd wish they didn't. You can't just simply ignore things you don't understand. You can't extinguish us either. We'll keep coming back. That's how humans were created. If you make a point out of ignoring God's creation, i'm sure God won't exactly feel flattered by that behaviour.

Well, i'll explain more on that. The relationship started in a phase of denial. More or less in a last effort to prove i'm male. But i only went ahead with it because she was able to understand my feminin sides. I've talked to many many girls over summer and it all felt wrong, so i choose her because she was clearly different. Don't know, maybe she's mentally less female than others?

I do enjoy being physically with her, except sexually. But i don't think that would be different when being with a man. All things seem to suggest that i'm asexual when it comes to physical attraction and bisexual when it comes to mental attraction. Meaning that it's the personality i care about, not the sex. As long as i'm not forced in the male gender role, that's fine by me. I defenitely would feel better with being in a full female gender role, but i think it's good enough as it is with her. After all, i've talked to so many people in the past that i understand how rare it is to find someone i can have an emotional click with, considering my personality is extemely complex.

I've never been abused in my life and have no sexual traumas. I sexually just never felt as a man and always had the feeling that i should have been the woman instead.
Being with a guy doesnt seem gay to me, though. But it's been taking me almost 30 years to even consider the possiblity that i might be attracted to them. It's a possibility. And yes, in my fantasy, i usually prefer men. But one should never confuse fantasy with what someone really wants or needs. (altouhg lot of people aren't emotionally stable enough to see the difference) Besides, i don't need to fantasize about my GF, because she's real.
I for sure hate being dominant. The natural thing for me is feeling equal. I always hated doing things alone. And society here is one that forces you to do everything alone. Which is just unnatural to me.

The only right thing i can do is being totally honest with my girlfriend, and that's what i'm doing. And being honest to everyone involved. Only by being open about it, i can find my right path. Even if that means getting hurt or getting ridiculed.

Hm, one thing i'd like to add though, and that is that they are not 'mentall illness' but 'physical illness'. It's not the soul that needs fixing, because the soul is eternal and can not be fixed/can only get fixed by God himself.
It is not right to try to adapt the soul to the body. It is right to try to adapt the body to the soul, though. (but one should not rush into such things, as i've repeatedly said, because getting to know one's own soul enough to understand it does take many years)
Additional body modifications (plastic surgery) is also a controversial point, on which my opinion is that if it is done as defense towards people who would harm them, it is justified, but if it is done for astethic reasons, it is wrong. (trying to look realistic vs. trying to look pretty). Altough looking pretty in asian standars is considered to be a sign of 'working hard'. I'm not sure yet how to judge that though.

Also, i'd like to point out the difference between homosexuality and homoromanticism. The first one is pure sexual attraction, the second is pure emotional attraction. Does someone base their choices on sexual attraction (or similarly even more shallow things like money or politics), then it is a sin (this is also true for heterosexuals, bisexuals, asexuals, etc.) does someone base their choices on emotional attraction, it is never a sin. A soul falling in love with another soul is the most beautiful thing there is.
For example i don't feel sexually attracted to my girlfriend (who is aware of my gender issues, and rather supportive about it), but i do feel an enormous emotional attraction. I don't see this as a sin for either her or me. It's not a lie either, because 1) i'm totally honest about everything towards her and 2) my emotional attraction is very real.

I think i've stated before that 'having sex just for the sake of having sex' is a wrong thing, and any relationship based on that is a sin, no matter if it is heterosexual or homosexual.

And i'm not all negative about you guys. So far you've shown to be more open minded and willing to discuss things than the holebi community itself.

Greetings.

First of all i'd like to apologise to saying that some people don't do any effort, because in fact, i do know know if they did or not.

Now about your reaction it does defenitely not support it. Neither does it condemn it. It is neutral. So people following the book should be neutral about it, and judge about the wether or not the person in case has evil intentions for doing it, but not for doing it in itself. (just like with many sins, they have to be put in their context)

And about the soy argument gender-diversity and different sexualities have always been there, in almost each and every culture. Though in thinly populated cultures like the classic Arabian age, it was rare, so not considered of much relevance. Thing is that our population is growing massively to the point of overpopulation. Besides, all linked articles do really sound like scams science. Though that soy thing might be a signficant catalyst, it's in no way to blame for the existance of diversity between humans.

From a standpoint of evolution, then homosexuality and transsexuality are a perfect answer to overpopulation. If it happens in other animals, it happens for a reason. Those reasons are either protecting the species against underpopulation or against overpopulation (as overpopulation will lead to extinction too). Now evolution is God. It's Gods plan for the universe, which none of our humans knows until it happens.

None of you should be obliged to support us. But if you truly value the word of God, you should also 'let us be'. Telling your opinion is totally okay. But punishing us isn't. Please don't say 'you are wrong'. Please instead say 'i think you are wrong'.

And @comrox, inevitably, this will be an eternal struggle, as long as God creates homosexuals and transsexuals, they will try to get into dialoge because they want to be recognised as a creation of God. Why does he creates them? That's his decision. He will have a reason for it, and if you ever have the chance to meet him, he will tell the reason why he makes people like that. He has a path for everyone, and for some people, that path is unusual, whilst for other people, that path is very normal. Also the way people act around those who they meet is part of God's plan, as he wants you to meet these people, and wants you to get into discussions. But what he expects you do to is a mystery for us. We can only use logic. Though i might be using 'female logic which according to men is flawed anyway'.

Hey there. I haven't been here in a while. My excuses for that.

Whilst a lot of you people tell 'don't change the creation of Allah', can they say that they never change a single thing in this creation? I don't think any of you can say that. God deliberately created human as a species who is capable of manipulating their environment.
In my view there's 2 possible ways of manipulating environment 1) for selfish reasons (guess that's the devil seducing you to stray of the right path) 2) to create something others would benefit from, so the exact opposite of selfishness.
Transexuality or homosexuality is not per defenition a selfish decision. I've been told a lot that i have to do 'what is best for myself', but 'for myself' doesn't work for me as a motivation. I do not want to cause harm, and therefore i prefer to keep communicating until the other party understands that indeed no harm is caused towards them. Situations like a family saying you put shame on them is in fact a selfish thing to say from your family. The family puts themselves to shame by not being open for dialoge. Everything in the world stands or falls with dialogue and open-mindedness. Closed-mindedness and conservativism are some of the most selfish things one can stand for.
'shame' can never be used as an excuse. However, one should also not just ignore those who claim that, run away and do their own thing without ever looking back (unless if being forced to do so), because that's just and endless cycle. If neither the family, nor the trans/gay person is willing to communicate, then neither are doing the right thing.
If silence is gold, then speaking is priceless. Sharing opinions and being open for alternative interpretations is constructive towards everyone involved. Literal interpreations and pushing your opinion upon others is destructive. If your interpretation of the Quran is destructive, you're defenitely reading it wrong, because it's meant to be constructive. We're supposed to be helping each other, not fight each other.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying those verses are nonsense, far from it, but the Quran is not the complete word of God. A big part of the word is written in every human heart itself. It's the personal bond between God and human, which can not be simply put in a book, but is taught by God to every individual personally. (at least those individuals who are open to it) It might not be mentioned in these exact words, but i don't think many will disagree. Don't let the book (or antything else) close you of from your personal bond to God. You need your personal bond to understand the book. It is defenitely not meant to literally copy, but meant to use in combination with your personal context. (please don't put my words out of their context here)
So far, everything i read seems to confirm that what i'm feeling is the right thing to do. Whilst before being open to Islam, i had a lot more doubts about that. If anyone tries to claim that my personal connection to God is the word of the Devil, then you're insulting and underestimating my God.
I'd say as long as you don'treally harm others, you should be free to do most of the things you want to (of course being realistic in your desires). Of course a lot of people will claim they get harmed by your actions, just for their own selfish reasons. Also often to mask their own shortcomings in dealing with situations. Don't fall for the deception of a powerful person who plays the victim.
Will i listen to what my family/partner has to say? Yes. Will i disobey them when they're being selfish? Yes i will.

I find the last two comments not really relevant to this discussion, to be honest. They literally say nothing. Except that there are only male and female, but they do not define what male and female mean, whilst we are scientifically 100% sure that this division is more complex than just how the body appears to be outward. You have to keep in mind that in the prophets time, there were no things like neuroscience, DNA-analys or even data. So he would not be able to explain that stuff towards the people in the words we use today. I'm sure those scientific theories are in the book one way or the other, though. Just not in the same wordings that we use today.

I would like to add another thing please do not confuse transsexuals by those who falsely claim to be transsexuals, just for their own benefit.

Though the fact remains there is literally not a single part of the Quran that says transsexuality or homosexuality is wrong. I've read trough a few online discussions about that, and the end result is that many who claim the Quran proves these things are wrong, fail to come up with verses that prove their own point (not even by troll logic). It just proves these people know a lot of verses (which seems to be a kind of prestige to be able to quote the most verses out of their head, which in my humble opinion is insulting the Quran, especially considering their irrelevancy to the subject), but don't really even seem to do any serious effort to justify their transphobia/homophobia. Probably because they know they aren't able to justify something that is not considered wrong by their religion, and are stuck to quoting verses who have a vague resemblance (but only very vague) The objective conclusion of these discussions is always that the Quran is totally neutral upon these issues.

A lot of people then use the story of Lot, but the connection to homosexuality has also been disproven many times (the conclusion seems to be that this story is about rape in general. Indeed including men, but never specifically about men) Whilst a few other verses in the Quran seem to confirm that Mohammed (pbuh) seems to be familiar with some trans or gay people, but his opinion about them is about their personality, and not once is referred to their gay/trans identity itself being a problem.

Peace be upon those who really desire peace.

Thanks a lot for your very fast reactions

What i mean with directly speaking? Hm, hard to explain. It's having a feeling and recognising it's right. I can't logically explain this.
Every trans person will tell you 'they just know'. Well, i know nobody will take that as an explanation, because many who claim this change their mind. I'm however not a person to jump on the first thing that comes to my head.
There are a zillion of reasons why i could want to be a woman and/or a muslim. But none of them are 'the' reason. I first identified gender dysphoric feelings when i was 18 (i'm 29 currently) - which is an age i hear a lot when talking to people who are truly honest - and if i count back my memories, i can defenitely identify some earlier stuff, but absolutely not like the stories you read in the media. I suppose the fact that i was a bit of a loner explains why recognising the feeling became so much later. I doubted a lot because i think the way society expects women to be is not how i recognise feeling as a woman.
Lot of religious people will also tell you they just know it's right to believe what they believe. I just think that if you see the right path for you, your soul will recognise it as the right one. I feel as if God called me. I don't know if i make sense, but that's really how i feel.

I never opened my eyes before to the possiblity of being muslim. Like many other people here in Europe, i've been conditioned to hate muslims (altough it never worked because i honestly don't see anything bad about them) I've been conditioned to think that the way certain countries or sects treat men, women or trans people equals what Islam itself thinks about it. I already figured out that this is not true, and i've been reading a lot of stuff lately. But it wouldn't hurt to hear someone specifically telling me their opinion. Not because i can't decide for myself, but because i honestly want both sides to learn each others point of view. I'm not just here for selfish reasons, but to share my thoughts.

No i'm not planning on ditching anyone from my life. I was using it as an example that i'm not choosing this path because it's 'convenient'. Lot of trans people think being a woman is convenient and has only benefits.
But i'm not planning to just leave everything behind. In fact i even have a girlfriend, but i am honest about her about my gender confusion, and she reacts understanding, which is positive. I'm not really sure if being with a girl is right, because to be honest, the idea of being with a man has scared me for a long time, but i talk regularly with her about it and i suppose we'll figure it out, as long as we stay honest.

Thanks for the links

Hey people

Forgive me for not adressing you the right way, as i'm not familiar with Islamic culture.
Also forgive me for bumping up a very, very old topic, but this is important for me.
I came upon this topic after searching questions about what Quran and Islam has to say about Transgender related topics, as i am myself transgender (altough closeted) and considering becoming muslim. Though i want to research islam more, because i'm not the person who likes to do impulsive things. I doesn't mean i will change my mind about this religion, but i do need to understand what it means to be muslim more before i can truly identify myself as muslim.
I could not find any other threads specifically on this subject (as most of them are dealing about homosexuality, but is not 100% relevant)

I would like to talk about my experiences in and visions about the trans community. And interestingly, some of the people here are more right than they themselves realise.

The so called fact that transgenders knew they were female from their birth is a big misconception which doesn't match the behind the scenes truth that only insiders of trans communities know. I've talked to many trans people as an insider, and it almost always felt as if all of them were telling lies about how they were as a kid. Sometimes you can really see when some people are 'fake' and telling themselves lies. (Of course, not all of them were fake)
Why are they telling themselves these lies? Well, there's a two reasons.

1. The transgender community is - despite claiming to be open and understanding - in reality very conservative and elitist. An explanation for this is that the older transgenders had to fight hard for their rights to be like they currently are, and are unable to cope with newer generations of transgender people who have new, more realistic insights in trans topics. Therefore, those older people will exclude anyone who thinks different. They obtained a monopoly on the transgender community and they tell you how you should behave. Their ideas are often based on old-fashioned gender ideas (like clothing, toys, many things that have been discussed here, but are only very shallow things). This leads to the situation that the people who have heartfelt gender dysphoric feelings will either not talk about their feelings or either pretend they're the same as the old generation. Keeping the hypocrite system intact. This is a huge problem, as it prevents gender researchers to get access to the full picture. Even though the youngest of generations seem to have a positive impact, they generally don't like to associate themselves with the community for the same reasons, and thus even enlarging misconceptions. People with realistic expectations about being a woman (or being a man) are not welcomed, because it doesn't fit the ideal picture these people are telling themselves. That's why i'm personally disgusted with these communities and this prevented me from coming out of the closet, despite taking some efforts which took me years to find the courage.
   I've met with multiple communities (both in real life and the internet), and this does not seem to be a local problem.
   Because i had a different opinion, i was frowned upon by the community and largely ignored until i stopped coming to the communities. I have contact with only one person from all those many i met, as i felt this was the only person who was truly honest. I mention this because most cisgender people are unaware of how the trans community really works.
   Remember the following line The most transphobic people are trans people themselves.

2. Gender research is not up-to-date. Originally the term 'transsexual' came from the idea that transgendered people were similar to homosexuals, more specifically that they longed for 'having sex as a woman'. This does not automatically mean having sex with a man, altough originally it was assumed it did. Whilst there are defenitely lot of people who fit into this category, those are usually people who end up in fetishes and or in sex industry. (which are obviously sins), but that's probably a minority. Altough making estimates about the number of transgendered people is absolutely impossible, considering the many closeted people. My estimation is that it should be at least around 5 to 10% of the whole earths population if we include the full transgender spectrum. But that includes things like cross-dressing and intergender identities too. I don't base these estimations on facts, as it is impossible to really know what's inside someone else's heart. A lot of people don't realise what's inside their own heart because they tell themselves a lot of lies, so the percentage might be a lot higher, but also a lot lower.
   It must be said that gender research is steadily progressing forward so i'm optimistic about living trough the day they finally understand the scientific side.

The widespread idea of boys playing with girls toys and girls playing with boy toys originally cames from that old era. Whilst most of you will know that preference of toys is a matter of taste, not a matter of gender. Toys, clothes, etc. are indeed shallow things, which are culturally defined, not genetically.
To be honest, i never really felt attracted to Barbies and pink stuff, and could enjoy playing cars, lego and even adventures. Whilst i certainly did secretly admire some other female things. The only thing i knew was that i wasn't supposed to be a man, but at that age i could not possibly jump to the conclusion that i was supposed to be a woman. Neither can all those young girls who claim they can. In fact, a lot of them will turn out to be normal heteronormative heterosexual men. Perhaps they'll have tendancy to cross-dress, but in generally they will live a normal life.
If you say at that age that you know something for certain, well, then you are stupid. I am disgusted by how the media is constantly bringing up that story whilst the truth about transgenders is very different.
There are many trans people who doubt a lot about what they're going trough, and think a lot about consequences. And this is in my opinion the only right way to go trough this. Even though indeed people who wait will not be 'passable', at least you can say they are sure about their decision, and they are well-informed. Well-informed people generally also tend to be more honest about these issues than others. That also explains why i haven't taken the step yet, as i feel i need a lot more information. One does need to go to a whole process of thinking about things before doing something. In the end, is passability important? It it right to hide your genetics? I don't think so. The honest way may be a million times more difficult, but it's the only right way.

These are some of my opinions and basically i want to check how muslims think about these opinions.
-If you transition for wrong reasons, like sexual desires, making money, tricking other people, being dishonest, etc. those are defenitely sins. They are always sins, no matter what your gender or orientation is. The quran does seem to suggest to refer to people who try to gain an unfair advantage by presenting a different gender. They are sinners.
-If you are totally honest about your situation towards yourself, your family, your friends and your community, God will forgive you, because you don't mean any harm and don't try to gain benefits that don't belong to you.
My opinion is that if you feel in your heart that the gender of your soul is different from your genetic gender, then it's God who directly speaks to your heart. I believe God spoke directly to my heart to guide me towards my answers. This is a very different feeling to shallow reasons like gender presentation. I feel that how the media portrays women is not like how women are in reality at all. Which is one of the reasons my feelings were so hard to recognise.
Following my heart is the same reason i developed a big interest in discovering Islam, because nobody would want to be a muslim in this era of unseen islamophobia here in Europe if it didn't come straight from the heart. I am not forced to become muslim, and nobody even tried to convince me to do it. I just feel i like i've been called by God. Despite the fact that i might not be accepted by his other followers. I do think that not being accepted is a test by god to know if what i'm doing comes really from the heart. No transgender person in a western country would even think of reverting to Islam if they think they can gain unfair advantages by it, as i'm likely to lose more than i gain, (in terms of measureable things, as of course Gods love is not measureable)I will lose a lot of family and friends and probably never be accepted by the community. Still i feel i have to do this. (after tall, one of the greatest sins is turning your back to God when he calls you)

-You do have to accept that men and women do have some differences, and thefore be willing to give up some male privileges. This is a big problem with transgender people in the west, who want to keep the rights of their birth gender. I find this way of thinking arrogant.
Men and women are equal in value, but they have different qualities. Our brains are different. And scientific finds seem to suggest that transgendered people have a brain closer to that of their gender they feel on the inside, rather than that at the outside (altough not always 100%). Indeed, purely technically speaking, it doesn't come from the heart, but from the brain. But of course when i mention heart i mean the soul, which is not measureable by science.

-I also believe that God did put science and technology on earth as a sign of his kindness towards us humans, but there are lot of false prophets among those scientists trying to gain money from it. In fact, if you think about it, western capitalist society does not gain by allowing people whose gender feelings come from the heart, but does gain by people whose feelings are shallow, as they will spend a lot more to look like they think they're supposed to look. Not all gender specialists have bad intensions though, as some seem to take their work very serious.
And yes, i am seeking the guidance of gender specialists. I can only hope they appreciate my honesty, and not turn me down because i'm not 'woman enough' for them.

Personally, my feeling is purely based on what i feel on my heart, and does not really seem to follow commonly accepted logic. So please don't ask me to explain how i fit into the traditional transgender story, because i don't. And i don't believe these clich? stories for one bit, because i've seen it from the inside how 'real' those stories really are.

I am defenitely not a scientist and i will not pretend to be one. I can only tell you what i do know, what i've read, what i experienced and what others have told me about their experiences.
I do hope science can get a breaktrough, as it would help people understand. In the meantime, the best thing i can do is ask the questions i have. I am convinced that the decision about what will happen is already made for me by God, but i don't know what it is yet and i just have to trust him.

@Aisha, i hope your kid is doing fine, these many years later. I do however really hope she really thought this trough (she should be 16 or 17 by now?). Sometimes it's difficult to distinguish what your heart (soul) feels over what your body or brain feels. Consumerism is however not typically female, so please keep your kid away from the idea that all girls should live a glamourous lifestyle. If you still feel her feelings are genuine, then support her all the way you can.

I again apologise for my very western way of writing, and if i have any misconceptions, please feel welcome to correct me.