Peace be upon you TheSabi,

Are you Kazimir or somebody who knows Kazimir?

The truth is not something to be covered up or mixed with falsehood.

Neil.

Peace

5343 And He is the One who makes laughter and tears.

Laughter is fine...just not at the expense of others

4911 O you who believe, let not a people ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names. Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining faith. And anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors.

Peace

1422 "And the devil said when the matter was complete "God had promised you the promise of truth, and I promised you and broke my promise. And I had no power over you except that I invited you and you responded to me. So do not blame me, but blame yourselves; I cannot help you nor can you help me. I reject that you have set me as a partner before this; the wicked will have a painful retribution."

They can not take over our bodies. They have no power but to invite. The disbelievers believed in possession by jinns, 'MAJNOON'

156 And they said "O you upon whom the Reminder has been sent down, you are possessed by jinns."

Peace all

3021 And from His signs is that He created for you partners from yourselves that you may have tranquility with them, and He placed between you affection and mercy. In that are signs for a people who reflect.

2222 And they ask you about menstruation? Say "It is harmful, so retire yourselves sexually from the women during the menstruation, and do not approach them until they are cleansed. When they are cleansed, then you may approach them as God has commanded you." God loves the repenters and He loves the cleansed.

2224 Your women are a plantation for you you. So come to your plantation however you both wish and make some preparations for yourselves. And be aware of God and know that you will meet Him, and give good news to the believers.

2187 It has been made lawful for you during the night of fasting to approach your women sexually. They are a garment for you and you are a garment for them. God knows that you used to betray your souls so He has accepted your repentance, and forgiven you; now you may approach them and seek what God has written for you. And you may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn; then you shall complete the fast until night; and do not approach them while you are devoted in the temples. These are God's boundaries, so do not transgress them. It is thus that God makes His revelations clear to the people that they may be righteous.

Peace be upon you Jafar,

You said,

"Only member of the 'Aaronic Priest ' can enter the 'Qodesh Ha Qodashim' (Holiest Of Holy)"

Is it possible AL-MIHRAB/the sanctuary in the Quran refers to the holy of holies? We are told Mary was in AL-MIHRAB in the Quran. Zakarriya came out to his people from there after communicating with the Lord.

I look forward to your response.

Peace Layth,

I was reading your Hajj article again and I would like to suggest that Arafat is the Mount of Olives located east of the location of the Bayt. The Bayt on Mount Moriah(Marwah) is in fact about 90metres lower than the Mount of Olives. The Mount of Olives is also not just one mountain but a series of peaks in a range.

http//www.beitorot.org/olives.htm

The name "Mount of Olives" really describes the whole mountain range running from north to south directly east of the "Old City" of Jerusalem, including what are today called Mount Scopus, the Mount of Olives, and Har HaMoshcha or the Hill of Evil Counsel.

The names Har HaZaytim (Mt. Of Olives) and Har HaMoshcha (Mount of Anointing) come from the many olive trees which flourished all over the mountain range. Their precious oil was used to anoint kings and in the Temple service. The term Har HaMoshchit (destroying mountain) is mentioned in Jeremiah 5125, in reference to Babylon, but was also used as a derogatory application for Har HaMoshcha, which sounds very much alike, as a play on words.

In general, during the First and Second Temple periods, the city of Jerusalem was situated on the two hills to the south and west of the Temple Mount, (Mount Zion and the City of David), while the surrounding hills and valleys, including of course the Mount of Olives range, were used for agriculture and as burial grounds.

Of all the hills in the Jerusalem area, the Mt. Of Olives is the tallest - about 830 meters high at its peak, 40 meters higher than the mountain range on which what are today known as Mt. Zion and the "Old City" are situated. However, it is almost 90 meters higher than the peak of Har HaMoriah, the Temple Mount, site of the Dome of the Rock, which lies directly to its west. To its east lie the town of Ma'aleh Adumim and the Jordan Valley. The Jerusalem-Jericho road also winds around the mountainside. From the top, one has a panoramic view of the old and new cities of Jerusalem on the west, and the Judean Desert on the east - a vivid illustration of the verse, "Jerusalem - Mountains surround it, and the L-rd surround His people from now until eternity." Psalms 1252 Separating Jerusalem from the Mount of Olives are the Valley of Jehoshaphat and the Kidron Valley. The latter turns east around the southern border of the mount and continues all the way on to the Dead Sea.

During both Temple periods, the preparation of the ashes of the Red Heifer, to be used in the Temple for purification, was performed on the Mount of Olives. Numbers 192-19 Talmudic sources indicate that during the time of The Second Temple, the Har Ha Beit and the Mt. Of Olives were actually connected by a bridge, and the rituals relating to the Para Adumah (red heifer), whose ashes were essential to the Mikveh purification process for the services at the Beit Hamikdash, were performed on Har HaZaytim. Shortly before the destruction of the First Temple, the Shechina (Divine Presence) "left" the Temple itself and hovered over the Mount of Olives for 3 1/2 years waiting for the People of Israel to repent, before ascending to the heavens. Ezekiel 1123, Eicha Raba Petichta 23 (According to Talmudic tradition the Shechina departed from the Beit Hamikdash in ten stages. First the Shechina departed the Temple Mount, then the Holy City and the tenth and last resting-place was on Har HaZaytim. There, according to the tradition, the Shechina waited, in the hope that the Jewish People would repent of their sins. But when they did not repent, the Shechina eventually left this world, ascending to Heaven from a spot on the Mt. Of Olives which was called "the footstool of G-d". One tradition says that the Prophet Yechezkel will sound the shofar on Har HaZaytim to announce the beginning of the resurrection. According to the Prophet Zecharya, at the end of days, when the Jews are redeemed by the coming of the Messiah, the Mt. Of Olives will once more serve as "the footstool of G-d" and be the site from which the Shechina returns to the Temple Mount.) The Divine Presence, of course, returned to Mount Moriah when the Second Temple was built, and even upon the Temple's destruction, "the Divine Presence has never left the Western Wall."
During the Second Temple period, the Mount of Olives was the first in the chain of mountains throughout Israel upon which bonfires were lit every Rosh Chodesh (New Month), to announce the beginning of a new month. (The Jewish month begins with the new moon. In its original form, Rosh Chodesh, officially announced the first day of each new month by the Sanhedrin (the Supreme Rabbinic Court), in Jerusalem.) To enable Jewish communities throughout Israel and Babylonia to know exactly when the month had begun, bonfires were lit on high mountains, from the Mount of Olives up to Sartaba - in Samaria, near the Jordan Valley, from there up to Grophina - in lower Galilee, and so on until Babylonia. See Mishna Rosh Hashana 24

---

The calendar of Al-Quran is according to new moons(2189), not crescents.

Peace be upon you brother,

How long ago it seems when you first brought this idea up. There was the Hajj Yahoo group. There was a lot of interesting stuff posted there. Can you remember the exact name of it?

OK.. so if we have 4 al-haram months, then we have 3 pilgrimage months for 3 different pilgrimages and 1 fasting month. We can see in the Quran that the actual pilgrimage itself lasts for a limited amount of days. What would be the need to have four sacred months for that amount of time, if not for three seperate pilgrimages in three of those months?

With this understanding the amount of time Moses was working for the father of his bride would amount to just under 3 years (2827). That seems more reasonable then 8 or 10 years work.

Seeing that Moses was living in agriculatural environment at that time and the hag/hajj were agriculatural festivals.... the hags are intimately connected with harvest time......Moses was saying...I will work for you ...this many harvests

With this understanding is it possible that YAWM ALHAJJ ALAKBAR(93) in fact means the time of the greatest Hajj ie. the greatest of the three hajj.

In biblical times, Sukkot was considered to be the most important festival. It was actually referred to as ha-chag, the festival, (Kings 1232). King Solomon chose Sukkot as the holiday during which he consecrated the first temple. It was also the occasion every seven years for the ceremony hak'heil, the public reading of the Torah before the whole people (Deuteronomy 3110-13). Sukkot is also said to be the festival of the future, when in the messianic period, all nations will come to Jerusalem and celebrate.

Peace,

4/43 O you who believe! do not approach the Sermon/Oration when you are intoxicated until you know (well) what you say

23/9 And those who learn by heart/protect(HAFIZ) their Orations; These are they who are the heirs,

54/17, 22,32, 40 And certainly We have made the Quran easy for remembrance, but is there anyone who will mind?

96/10-16 Hast thou seen him who prevents a servant when he ORATES? ...Nay, Obey not thou him. But prostrate thyself, and draw near (unto Allah).

19/29-31 But she pointed to him. They said How should we speak to one who was a child in the cradle? He said Surely I am a servant of Allah; He has given me the Book and made me a prophet. And He has made me blessed wherever I may be, and He has AWSANEE enjoined on me biSALAWT/the oration/sermon and AZZAKAWT/the purification so long as I live?

Jesus was giving sermons even as a young boy.

17/105-110 And with truth have We revealed it, and with truth did it come; and We have not sent you but as the giver of good news and as a warner. And it is a Quran which We have revealed in portions so that you may read it to the people by slow degrees, and We have revealed it, revealing in portions. Say Believe in it or believe not; surely those who are given the knowledge before it fall down on their faces, making obeisance when it is recited to them. And they say Glory be to our Lord! most surely the promise of our Lord was to be fulfilled. And they fall down on their faces weeping, and it adds to their humility. Say Call upon Allah or call upon, the Beneficent Allah; whichever you call upon, He has the best names; and do not utter biSALAATIKAyour Sermon with a very raised voice nor be silent with regard to it, and seek a way between these. And say (All) praise is due to Allah, Who has not taken a son and Who has not a partner in the kingdom, and Who has not a helper to save Him from disgrace; and proclaim His greatness magnifying (Him). (something we say in our sermons)

11/87 They said, "O Shu`aib, does your SALAATUKA/Sermon dictate upon you that we must abandon our parents' religion, or running our businesses in any manner we choose? Surely, you are known for being clement, wise."

4/103 ......The Sermon is a timed book upon the believers. (doesn't go on forever and ever-ends when the recited portions end)

4/142-146 Surely the hypocrites strive to deceive Allah, and He shall requite their deceit to them, and when they stand up for the Oration they stand up sluggishly; they do it only to be seen of men and do not remember Allah save a little. Swaying between this (and that) in remembrance (of the Oration ? not really remembering), (belonging) neither to these nor to those.

33/43 O you who believe! remember Allah, remembering frequently, And glorify Him morning and evening. He it is Who YUSALLAY/ORATES on/about you, and (so do) His angels, that He may bring you forth out of utter darkness into the light; and He is Merciful to the believers. Their salutation on the day that they meet Him shall be, Peace, and He has prepared for them an honourable reward.

The orations about us are in the Quran as are several orations from the angels.

33/56 Surely Allah and His angels YUSALLUW/ORATE the Prophet; O you who believe! SALLUW/ORATE on him and salute him with a (becoming) salutation . Surely (as for) those who speak evil things of Allah and His Messenger, Allah has cursed them in this world and the here after, and He has prepared for them a chastisement bringing disgrace. And those who speak evil things of the believing men and the believing women without their having earned (it), they are guilty indeed of a false accusation and a manifest sin.

The Quran was Orated to Muhammad... when Muhammad established the oration then the fellow orators orated/repeated it back to him

25/5 And they say The stories of the ancients-- he has got them written-- so these are read out to him morning and evening

9/84 Therefore if Allah brings you back to a party of them and then they ask your permission to go forth, say By no means shall you ever go forth with me and by no means shall you fight an enemy with me; surely you chose to sit the first time, therefore sit (now) with those who remain behind. And never SALAY/ORATE/EULOGY for any one of them who dies and do not stand by his grave; surely they disbelieve in Allah and His Messenger and they shall die in transgression.

This type of oration is known in English as a Eulogy.

My name is Neil. I used to be active in this forum and others like it a few years ago. I'm glad to be back and I hope a can make a worthy contribution to the discussions. AL-QURAN is still AL-FURQAN/the criterion for me.

After reading the article 'Where was Muhammad?' it got me to thinking about the Pilgrimages of the Jews.

These pilgrimages were called HAG/hajj meaning pilgrimmage or festival. There were 3 HAG each year to the Temple of God/BAYT Allah in Jerusalem. The 'holy of holies' of this Temple was said to be situated over maqom avraham/MAQAM IBRAHEEM which has been called the KABAH in the article.

Here is some more interesting info I found in Jewish sources;

http//www.everythingjewish.com/Shavuot/origins.htm

The Jewish philosopher, Philo, (c.20 B.C.E.-c 50 C.E.) who lived in Alexandria, and Flavius Josephus, (c.38 C.E.-c. 100C.E.) the Roman Jewish historian, wrote about the Jewish pilgrimages to Jerusalem. Philo wrote that multitudes of Jews from countless cities converged on the temple at each festival. Some came by land and others by sea, from east, west, north and south.

Babylonia, which probably had the biggest Jewish population outside Israel, supplied the largest flow of pilgrims. Pilgrims traveled in caravans, setting off from towns inside and out of Israel. Obviously, not every Jew was able to travel to Jerusalem three times a year, so groups of district representatives known as the Ma?amad were organized.

The Mishnah, in Tractate Bikkurim, paints a lively picture of what it was like to travel to the Temple for the holiday of Shavuot.

At the rise of morning an official says ?Rise and let us go up to Zion to the House of the Lord our G-d.? An ox walked before them, its horns covered in gold, and with an olive crown in its head. The challil, (flute) was played before them until they reached the vicinity of Jerusalem. Upon coming close to Jerusalem, they sent word ahead and decorated their bikkurim (offering). The important officials went out to meet them? and all the tradesmen in Jerusalem stood before them and greeted them ?Our brothers, the men of such and such a place, you have come in peace.?

The flute was played before them till they reached the Temple Mount. Even King Agripas took the basket on his shoulders and carried it until he reached the courtyard. When the pilgrims reached the courtyard, the Levites sang ?I will exalt You, O G-d, for You have saved me and You have not rejoiced my enemies before me.?

The Torah refers to Shavuot as Hag ha-katzir, (Exodus 2314-19) the feast of the harvest, as Hag Hashavuot, the festival of weeks, and as Yom ha-bikurim, (Leviticus 239-22) the day of first fruits, when farmers brought their produce to the Temple as an offering.

Shavuot is the second of the shalosh regalim, the three annual pilgrimage holidays of Pesach, Shavuot, and Sukkot, when Jews from all over Israel and beyond converged onto Jerusalem to celebrate and bring temple offerings.

The Torah commands that Shavuot be celebrated exactly seven weeks after the second day of Pesach, the day of the first Omer, the early barley harvest offering. This explains the name Shavuot ? Hebrew for weeks, or as it?s known in Greek, Pentecost, meaning fiftieth day.

?You shall count off seven weeks; start to count the seven weeks when the sickle is first put to the standing grain. Then you shall observe the Feast of Weeks for the Lord your G-d, offering your free will contribution according as the Lord your G-d has blessed you?

Kabbalists saw in the number seven the concept of the sefirot, the spiritual spheres that surround the heavens and G-d. The number 49 is also symbolic of the 49 gates of impurity from which the ancient Israelites were released as they left the land of Egypt.

According to a very old tradition, the period between Pesach and Shavuot is also a season of mourning. Marriages are not performed, hair is not cut and live music is not played or heard. The reasons for this are not entirely clear.
One tradition suggests that since this period was preparatory to receiving the Torah, these days were set aside for serious reflection and study. Therefore, frivolous activities were put on hold.
The most widely accepted explanation is that a mysterious plague cost the lives of many of Rabbi Akiva?s students during the Roman period. On the thirty-third day of the Omer, the mysterious plague stopped. This is why Lag Ba?Omer, the thirty-third day of the Omer, is observed as a special, though minor Jewish holiday, when marriages, haircuts and live music are permitted.

The things that sound similar to what is in the Quran are

Ma'amad, decoration of offerings(necklaces), pilgrims come to the House of God rijaalan(2227)/regalim, restrictions on haircuts and frivilous activities

http//www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/wisdom.htm

Peace be upon you,

I have cut down and re-presented this compilation of verses

http//www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/wisdom.htm

Please provide any comment you have and pass it on to anybody who doubts that the Koran promotes freedom of religion and tolerance.

I will hopefully post the full compilation in the Constitution section.

Thanks

Peace all,

I know that the discussion of Salat is ongoing.

I've checked out every instance of SALAAT in the Quran and it seems to me that the meaning of Oration/Address/Sermon/Speech fits every time.

It involves a lead orator geetting up and reciting from memory(hafiz), or the book, portions of the Quran. This is the person who establishes the Oration for the fellow orators. Everyone repeats what he has said and when finished everyone goes down into kneeling and then prostrate position. Then the Oration is finished.

The portions read from the Quran do the following things........
Remember God, Magnify, Glorify sing praises, Seek help, Invoke God, Seek God?s face, Ask for forgiveness, Seek grace and pleasure of God.

Examples of Orations are

1. In the name of God, the Almighty, Most Merciful.

2. Praise be to God, the Lord of the worlds.

3. The Almighty, the Merciful.

4. Possessor of the Day of Judgment.

5. You Alone we serve, you alone we seek for assistance.

6. Guide us to the straight path.

7. The path of those whom you blessed, not those who have incurred the wrath, nor the misguided.

2/286
Our Lord, do not mind us if we forget or make mistakes; our Lord, do not place upon us a burden as you have placed upon those before us; our Lord, do not place upon us what we cannot bare; pardon us, and forgive us, and have mercy on us; you are our patron, grant us victory over the disbelieving people.

3/8-9
Our Lord, do not deviate our hearts after You have guided us, and grant us from You a mercy; you are the Grantor.

Our Lord, you will gather the people for a day for which their is no doubt; God does not break His appointment.

Surah 112

1. Say ?He is God, the One?
2. ?God, the Absolute?
3. ?He does not give birth, nor was He given birth to?
4. ?And there is none who are His equal?

The Orator tells us to say, we repeat other than say.

Peace,

I put forward this hypothesis that 2102 is about the compilation of the Bible in Babylon from materials also coming down through the royal scribes in Solomon's court

There is much to back up this idea imo ... but I await responses to see if others can see what I'm talking about .. if it has any basis whatsoever

I think it's ridiculuous to suggest 2102 is about Jewish magic.