I wrote an article on it
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/covenant-quran.html

There is a fundamental error in the Traditionalist claim. They imply they know The Quran is The Quran, from hadith, when in reality, their "knowing" is probabilistic. So they do not know for certain.

That is why in academia AFAIK their alleged way of knowing Quran is Quran is not accepted.

Bro ths, instead of saying it doesn't make sense. Come with specifics, XYZ etc.

Side note, it was discussed a lot on here with regard to "marry 2, 3, 4" and the debate between this and "marry off 2, 3, 4" IIRC, which would favour the community address for example.

peace.
IMHO it is either addressed to those in the situation or society or perhaps both. The guardian over the orphans who have money/inheritance in their name, the guardian has to spend from that money for their upkeep. They may give little, they may give too much and run out of money, they may treat them differently to their other children/dependents, and they may hold back on giving them their wealth when they meet the criteria for marriageable age and thus their inheritance, see:

https://misconceptions-about-islam.com/misconception.php?id=40

So there are a few ways they could be unjust. Any more?

Our latest songs:

Pointing Fingers
(this song fuses a famous saying of Bruce Lee in light of The Quran)
https://youtu.be/Vmtjofz_iBs

Never Give Up
Motivational high energy anthem.
https://youtu.be/yxiFXMIBiB0

The Best Names remix
He is Allah, The One, The True. The Best Names Belong to Thee.
https://youtu.be/CZ3sOKTRdWY?si=Zv-5eSbAYoYDVRx6

Above link i gave no longer works, it is now https://quranix.org
(unfortunately they havent updated their security certificate so you might get a warning pop up, ignore)

This is also decent
https://puremonotheism.com/quran

Peace.
I am of the view EVERY single Muslim does not accept or follow at least one sahih hadith. To check this, please answer the following:

1) if you ate garlic or onions do you stop going to the Mosque? Yes/No
(Bukhari 853)

2) if you drink whilst standing do you vomit it up? Yes/No
(Muslim 2026)

3) Do you make ablution after eating cooked food? Yes/No
(Abu Dawud 194 (contradicts 187)

4) Do you sometimes sleep on your stomach? Yes/No
(Tirmidhi 2798, Abu Dawud 5040, Muslim 2710)

5) Do you sometimes lie down with one foot on top of other? Yes/No
(Muslim 2099e. Also contradicts Nasa’i 721)

6) When you are ill is your only medicine black seed (nigella sativa)? Yes/No
(Bukhari 5688)

7) Do you display photos in the house? Yes/No
(Bukhari 3225)

8] Do you believe Adam was 90 feet tall (and humans became smaller gradually over time)? Yes/No
(Bukhari 3326; Muslim 2841)

9) Do you believe water remains pure even if mixed with filth, menstrual cloths and dead dogs? Yes/No
(Abu Dawud 66–67; Nasa’i 326; Tirmidhi 66)

10) Do you believe the prophet insulted one of his wives (calling her names)? Yes/No
(Muslim 1211ag. Contradicts Bukhari 6050 ≠ Quran 33:21, 49:11)

All references and links can be found at https://QuranVsHadith.com

Feel free to use the above in your debates. Send to friends etc.

peace Ronin,
Respectful evidence based discussion is fine. In your lengthy reply not once did you address any of the points raised on Quran434.com regarding "withdraw/separate/leave them" understanding.
And you alluded to analysing the most common meaning of verb DaRaBa with direct object with no prepositions/modifiers, yet didn't do any analysis. It's all done on Quran434.com

It is only once all evidence is on the table, both for and against for each option, can then be weighed up etc.

peace Ronin,
Notifying the authority, then it tells us what the authority should do. Simple.

And of course 58:1-4 by itself is not sufficient. Quran434.com goes into a lot of detail regarding other evidences.
e.g. investigate what is the most common meaning of the verb DaRaBa in Quran with a direct object without prepositions/modifications.

peace Ronin,

4:34 leading to 4:35 does not present a problem for "cite them" at all, in fact it helps support its case.

On Quran434.com read from this bit onwards:

An interesting example also appears in 58:1-4 in which a woman argues with the prophet complaining about her husband, and how the husband has estranged/alienated her by claiming her to be as his mother's back, which was a practice of the time, making the wife unlawful for himself but also not technically divorcing her allowing her to remarry, i.e. leaving her stuck/suspended.
This is an interesting example because if we suppose this could be classed as a case of iAAradan/alienation or shiqaqa/breach/rift, then the next step the wife took was to cite her husband's behaviour/actions to the authority, which would have been the prophet at the time. The correlation is specifically with 4:129 which advises the husband not to leave her stuck/suspended and this is the EXACT situation described in 58:1-4, thus showing that in a situation of no resolution, the next step would be to cite the partner/situation to the authority. If we correlate this example to what the next step would be in 4:34, if the steps are followed and no resolution is forthcoming, the next step would be to cite the partner to the authority. This would explain how the court/authority knew of the situation between the couple in 4:35. Since 'idriboo them' is the only step in between "abandon them in bed" and the authority becoming aware of the situation, is there a Classical Arabic meaning of DRB that fits in the sequence? The answer is a resounding yes, as one of its primary and most common meanings is: to cite/propound, declare/mention, put/show forth, point out or indicate. As we can see, it is a perfect fit.
.
.
.

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It seems yourself and Ronin missed this bit.

peace all,
Ronin, on Quran434.com I go through the issues with "leave them" / "withdraw from them". Also the claim she made about hadith is debated, also see my site where I cite a hadith wherein prophet allegedly pushed Aisha causing her pain.

Fusion, have you actually read Quran434.com ? I provide examples backing up "cite them" from The Quran. Quite clear ones.
Also, there is a possibility of static text, dynamic meaning, here, i.e. a one off strike/hit (likely symbolic) was an initial interpretation or one for more primitive societies, but as societies develop, the understanding can change.

I'm not actually bound to my view, all I'm saying is that out of the possible options, "cite them" is the most cogent, as also mentioned on the about author page.

peace, What did you like about it?
All the verse examples she mentioned of DaRaBa used prepositions so its not a like for like comparison with 4:34. I made a two part video series on my channel about this verse (which were basic summaries of my book). They have been the most popular videos thus far.

https://youtu.be/mDQtqQ--aOU?si=wbaOawAJ9ZDdmeJv
https://youtu.be/4J1QC8R5VFA?si=boQgIKnXrt44ig9T

4. Very Weak or Non-Evidence
   These contribute little to determining truth.
   Personal Preference
   "I like this interpretation better."
   Emotional Appeal
   "This interpretation feels inspiring/offensive."
   Truth is independent of emotional reaction.
   Consequences
   "If this is true, people might..."
   Consequences do not determine truth.
   Identity-Based Claims
   "You only believe this because you're Sunni/Shia/Quranist/atheist."
   Even if true, it does not address the argument itself.
   Motive Attacks
   "You're arguing this because you want X."
   Motives do not determine whether an argument is correct.
   Ridicule
   "That's ridiculous."
   Mockery is not evidence.
   Confidence
   "I'm absolutely certain."
   Certainty is not proof.

---

A Useful Hierarchy
From strongest to weakest:
Tier 1 — Potentially Decisive
• Direct contradiction with text
• Internal inconsistency
• Logical contradiction
• Grammatical impossibility
• Empirical falsification
• Counterexample to universal claim
• Demonstrated methodological inconsistency
Tier 2 — Strong but Usually Not Decisive
• Logical fallacies
• Consistent linguistic evidence
• Historical evidence
• Contextual evidence
• Pragmatic consequences
• Explanatory power
• Parsimony (fewer assumptions)
Tier 3 — Weak
• Scholarly consensus
• Tradition
• Authority
• Majority opinion
• Arguments from silence
Tier 4 — Minimal Evidential Value
• Personal preference
• Emotional reaction
• Ridicule
• Motive attacks
• Identity-based attacks
• Confidence or certainty claims
Lastly, one additional criterion that belongs surprisingly high is explanatory scope / internal coherence [see 4:82].
A strong interpretation should explain not only the verse under discussion, but all relevant verses, grammar, context, and evidence with minimal exceptions.
Many interpretations survive because people only examine one verse. The moment an interpretation requires several exceptions, several special rules, and redefinitions to handle other passages, its explanatory power drops sharply even if no single refutation exists. That is often one of the most powerful ways to compare competing Qur'anic interpretations.
Intellectual honesty requires one to be able to distinguish between possible, probable and certain. Weighing of all evidence (both FOR and AGAINST) is required BEFORE a result can be determined. May your studies be fruitful. Peace.
For a detailed list of relevant Quran verses, please see:
https://www.quranvshadith.com/study-method.html

An example involving multiple issues: some claim in 17:78 we are to establish salat (singular) at “duluk as shams” (taken as zenith/noon) ila/to “darkness of night”, but:

1. alternative explanations exist for “duluk as shams” that result in less/no issues. Parsimony.
2. Creates an extremely long time length (Pragmatic consequence) thus to explain this away it is then claimed “A ila B” means it can be done in a section of that total timeframe. Such a claim requires supporting examples, and conflicts other verses such as 5:6 wash aydi ila/to the elbow, or 2:187 complete the abstinence ila/to the night. Inconsistent textual pattern and grammar.
3. Conflicts with 24:58 which implies noon is for discarding outer clothes i.e. rest indoors. Potential contradiction.

2. Moderate Evidence (Usually Weakens Rather Than Refutes)
   These often shift probability rather than conclusively settle a matter.
   Logical Fallacies
   Common ones being: strawman, false dilemma, special pleading, circular reasoning.
   Note: Finding a fallacy in an argument does not automatically prove the conclusion false; it only shows the argument failed to establish the conclusion.
   Alternative Explanation
   An equally plausible explanation exists. This weakens claims of certainty.
   Cumulative Linguistic Evidence
   Patterns of word usage, grammar, syntax, and context. Interesting and sometimes persuasive, but generally secondary to direct evidence. One exception may be when examples are various and abundant and all support the claim being made.
   Pragmatic or Practical consequences
   An interpretation that makes implementation very difficult or impossible may become a serious problem.
   Historical Context
   Known historical circumstances that support or undermine an interpretation. Various unbiased historical sources are best.
   Academic Consensus
   May suggest likelihood but does not determine truth. Experts can be wrong.
   Lack of Supporting Evidence
   The expected evidence is absent. This may weaken a claim but does not always refute it.
   Simplicity (Parsimony)
   An interpretation requiring fewer assumptions is generally preferable.

---

3. Weak Evidence (May Raise Questions but Little More)
   These can be suggestive but should not carry much weight.
   Appeal to Tradition
   "People have always understood it this way."
   Age of belief does not determine truth.
   Appeal to Authority
   "Scholar X said so."
   Authorities can inform discussions but do not settle them.
   Majority Opinion
   "Most Muslims/Christians/academics believe this."
   Truth is not determined by popularity.
   Speculative Possibilities
   "It could mean..."
   Almost anything could be possible. The question is what is best supported.
   Selective Evidence
   Highlighting supporting evidence while ignoring contrary evidence, i.e. cherry picking.
   Argument from Silence
   "No source mentions otherwise."
   Sometimes relevant, often weak.

peace all,

I have written an important article, with AI collab.
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/Evaluating-Quranic-Arguments.html

https://www.academia.edu/169425869/A_Framework_for_Evaluating_Quranic_Arguments

Over many years discussing Quran related topics I often find people committing logical fallacies and misunderstanding strengths of different types of evidence. People often treat all forms of evidence as if they carry equal weight. They do not. Some things can decisively refute a claim, some merely weaken it, and some contribute little or nothing to determining whether a claim is true.
A helpful framework with examples:

1. Strong Evidence (Can Potentially Refute or Overturn a Claim)
   These are the highest-value forms of evidence.
   Direct Contradiction
   A claim is shown to conflict with established facts, or the text itself.
   Example:
   If someone claims a verse says X, but the verse (or another verse) says not-X.
   Death for Apostasy: https://misconceptions-about-islam.com/misconception.php?id=1
   Internal Inconsistency
   A position contradicts itself.
   Example:
   A method used to prove one conclusion is abandoned when that same method leads to a conflicting conclusion elsewhere. (unless an evidence-based reason can be provided)
   Contradiction with Multiple Clear Passages
   A proposed interpretation conflicts with other clearer statements.
   The more clear passages that must be reinterpreted away, the weaker the interpretation becomes. If a verse is reinterpreted, its consequences must then be checked in other verses and so on.
   Example: there is no regular/timed/finite salat to uphold. This requires explaining away multiple verses (e.g. 2:238-239, 4:101-103, 4:43, 5:6, 5:106, 9:54, 62:9-10).
   Empirical Evidence
   Observable evidence [see 41:53] conflicts with a claim. Depending on strength may disprove a claim.
   Example:
   Archaeological, linguistic, historical, or scientific evidence.
   https://misconceptions-about-islam.com/misconception.php?id=49
   Logical Impossibility
   The conclusion cannot follow from the premises. (e.g. non sequitur)
   Example: we are told to give zakat in many verses which means we must give 2.5% of our wealth annually.
   Grammatical Impossibility
   An interpretation that requires grammar, morphology or syntax that Arabic does not permit is seriously weakened and may be refuted if that grammatical claim is essential to the interpretation, e.g.
   Someone claims the “it” in 17:79 refers to a night salat BUT salat is a feminine noun and the “it” refers to a masculine noun (e.g. quran/recital, in the prior verse) = “And from the night so remain awake with it additionally for yourself...”
   Demonstrated Methodological Failure
   The method produces absurd, contradictory, or arbitrary results when applied consistently. A method that can prove almost anything proves nothing.
   Falsification by Counterexample
   One valid counterexample can destroy a universal claim.
   Example:
   Claim: "The word always means X." (e.g. sujud always means prostration)
   Counter example: One clear occurrence where it means Y. (e.g. 2:58, 4:154, 7:161)

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All album two songs will be here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpx-30q-3f321UlRh1TR44QBfY-KD2270

Latest track weaves together the stories of Adam, Yunus and Yusuf in an epic tale about forgiveness:
https://youtu.be/R_RJ80gUFPI

All album one songs can be played here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpx-30q-3f30xKyhsMECpqgMy42dwEdws

This life is a test: the response of Adam and Iblis
https://youtu.be/qsod2DliSiE

The true meaning of islam:
https://youtu.be/OTSprzMUiqw

Great news!

Project Root List website has now been optimised for mobile/tablet devices:
https://studyquran.org/PRL/PRLonline.htm

Great news!

Project Root List website has now been optimised for mobile/tablet devices:
https://studyquran.org/PRL/PRLonline.htm