Peace

So as we know, the hadith seem to predict certain events of the future, and the symbolism of the one eye which seems to reflect Dajal etc. There are hadith about there being very tall buildings in the end times and if I remember correctly, homosexuality being prevalent, etc.

I mean, these obviously do seem to describe the 21st century....we don't believe in hadith because we believe that God never gave us the command to follow them plus it never literally states to follow hadith books.

But how can these hadith predictions seem so accurate?

cathedrals are tall

the shocking hadith for me is the magnetic field flipping
it's happening as we speak, the magnetic poles have significantly moved since the 1800's and it is weaking at an accelerating pace

a society where there aren't epidemics of STDs

https//www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/californias-deadly-std-epidemic-sets-record/2018/05/22/fa6f2caa-59b2-11e8-9889-07bcc1327f4b_story.html?utm_term=.f719d8b114ca

Lust is very subjective and the same thing even for the same person may not mean the same at diffrent times. I do think that those who fall in temptation usually indulge in border lines thinking that they will not cross them but that hell why not just a bit.

It is not so much that we see nudes or this or that but what we allow ourselves or the attitude we take while those things are in front of our eyes.

Salaam

its a question of statistics

for the majority of the people lust has the same meaning

rub one out quickly

btw i think op was a troll

I just keep thinking about it in my head and I'm stuck in a loop. I just can't comprehend a just and all-knowing God would consider sex as inherently evil, since sex doesn't cause anyone any harm? In fact sex has been scientifically proven to have positive effects such as reducing stress, provide pain relief, good for the heart etc.

What can be considered evil would be irresponsible people not dealing with the possible consequences of sex, such as unplanned pregnancies, spreading HIV etc. But that wouldn't make the sexual act itself 'evil' or 'harmful/detrimental'. For example if I hit a pedestrian while driving on the road, and drive off without helping the victim (hit and run) that doesn't make the act of 'driving' evil, it would make the act of not taking responsibility 'evil'!

Please can someone provide me a good answer because I'm starting to think that the Quran wasn't divinely inspired. And I admit alot of the verses in the Quran do a make a lot of sense. Maybe the Quran has been tampered with somehow in the past which is why you get things that don't make sense mixed in with things that make a lot of sense.

because premarital sex is inherently wrong

context is everything and just like the typical post modernists, you are focusing on the act of sex itself rather than the context in which sex is practiced

this is disngenuous and i invite you to think about the reasons why context would matter

i will just show you a few links to show you why you cant just focus on sex like you did, your argument is just wrong when you do that

http//www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11874559/Super-gonorrhoea-outbreak-Everything-you-need-to-know.html
http//www.reuters.com/article/us-aids-usa-idUSTRE68M3H220100923
http//www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/25/number-of-std-cases-in-the-us-reaches-record-high-as-public-serv/
http//edition.cnn.com/2017/03/01/health/syphilis-newborns-partner/index.html

what's shocking is that you base the faith you have in the quran on the actions of others

it's like rejecting the quran because isis beheads people

)

One would think after the prophets death the 200 years before bukhari the community followed quran only Islam.

However....

History is ripe with contradictions. Even in those 200 years slavery, conquests, jizyah, ridda wars so many accounts, historical and by hadith.

So two things 1) Either every account of the successive years before and after the prophets death are false , perhaps even that the "rightly guided caliphs" never existed (this isn't impossible it explains why the above motioned were happening in a state newly sanctioned by the quran.

2. even during Muhammad's time Allah willed even then corruption followed and quran islam wasn't practiced, hence we have all those accounts.

What do my genius free minders think? wow wow

because the prophet manifested himself doesn't mean that everywhere on the land will be justice instantly

Has Baitachal said such a thing? I do not think so, but why should she not want that once in a milenium may or twice a day or whatever there would be a woman. Because the opposita can also be asked,

Why do you want to lead prayers in front of women

Why do you want tht it always be a man leading prayers. The species last time anybody checked has two sexes, (except for prayers?)

Salaam

and then we will go back to the "women can pray in bikinis" argument because womens rights

the whole lgbtqi thing from the west is purely based on sexuality and nothing else

these folks identify with their sexuality first and foremost

i wouldn't even use that expression if you believe in the quran

homosexuality in the west is plagued with STDs for a reason, and that reason is not a lack of education

Okay, sorry, that does end the discussion. I wrote a whole fell-funded answer (as i always did in this topic), but after saying insulting things like this, there is no point in continuing to talk with you.

http//i.picpar.com/luQb.jpg
http//www.advocate.com/politics/commentary/2011/09/27/oped-live-world-where-everyone-has-hiv
im not pulling this out of nowhere, i didn't write this as an insult, i simply reported on what i saw

You're alienated from reality, and as long as you don't face reality, you'll only become more frustrated. You've been constantly claiming things about the west are just not true and not even realistic, and you keep on insisting on reliability of data which is by current technology impossible to be reliable or complete. Math revolves around one thing reliable data.

CDC, WHO, and others provide reliable data.

I'm not the one running away from reliable data.

A fact that is very visible to the naked eye is that God created a diverse and beautiful world.

What LGBT folks do is not part of it. It goes directly against the quran.

Just saying. Look at folsom street fair. That's enough for me.

You're using fallacious argumentation to dismiss what i have to write. You're attacking my ability to understand mathematics when you're the one who's been dismissing reliable statistics and empirical data all this time.

You're right for one thing, we have to agree to disagree.

@ Confused

Relax, you are still way "better off" than billions of Buddhists, Hindus, Christians and others who will be tortured in an eternal Hellfire, regardless of how many good deeds they do in their lives. According to the "Merciful God" of the "Noble Qur'an" rotfl

Just by believing in the Qur'an you have already firmly secured your place in eternal Heaven where you can have sex orgies all day long with your 72 virgins..

It's impossible to interpret the Qur'an in such a way that it will make perfect sense.

There are too many irrationally 'hateful' and threatening verses that are impossible to ignore.

Peace

just to let you know that in the quran, association is the unpardonable sin

there's nothing hateful or threatening in sending those who have disbelieved in hellfire, considering those who have disbelieved believe they won't be there, so the quran can be saying anything about them, there's no reason for you to feel that way

disbelievED, not disbilievE

problems occur when people consider it to be ok to do anything to the disbelievers NOW as if it gave them a permit to do atrocities against them NOW, and this issue stems from clerics and sects not the quran, because ultimately we do not know who is indeed a genuine disbeliever or not, god only knows

Because they had nothing to do with the subject. If you insist i give you a reaction, you're free to explain their relevancy.
Agan, this is not exclusive to LGBT, with most African countries with their high HIV-ratings in general as a good example.

you're avoiding the issue by talking about third world countries instead of comparing directly with the population living in the same country as the 1 in 5 homosexuals having aids live in

i think it's very telling what you told us, you had to bring up third world countries to save your argument

compare what is comparable

Statistics are meaningless when there's no context. If city A has a number of 2000 registered crimes per year and city B a number of 4000 registered crimes, that doesnt mean city B automatically has more crimes. It could also mean the police of city B did their job a lot better than that of city A. Statistics are rather worthless if you look at the pure numbers. Because 'closeted' people will never pop up into the statistics, but their number is extremely big. Every statistic should be taken with a grain of salt, and emotionality is a huge factor in understanding the whole picture.
If the North-Korean goverment will tell you 100% of their population is heterosexual, are you seriously going to believe such a source (an official one), without taking it with a grain of salt? Usually emotional estimations are a bit closer to the real world than close statistics. At least when it comes to things that are not accepted like LGBT. They aren't accepted in the west, they are tolerated. Please understand the difference between these words.

you're dismissing very important and very serious information with logical fallacies

when the CDC does their statistics, they are very rigorous, and when they tested homosexuals, they found that for a very good number N of homosexuals, one in five have HIV

that's the bottom line and there's no moral relativism or logical fallacies that will help you save your argument, the whole LGBT community is wicked because it is a movement principally based on sexuality and "free love"

the statistics prove this

I havent implied that thing about kids at all. Though it is the case that there is a concencus amongst heterosexual couples to have no kids and no marriage. Marriage and family nowadays is considered backwards, and the ones who want kids or families it the most are usually the LGBT people.

that's straight up bullshit excuse my french

(and that's a heartbreaking dilemma, though we don't really have a choice) I'm not really sure where you get this from.
Bisexual, Asexual, Bigender and Agender have nothing to do with the desire to have kids or not. Besides, for most of these groups, there's not much problem fitting into heteronormativity. However that doesnt mean they are hetero. Not having sexual desires does not mean you are physically unable to have sex, and being attracted to both genders does not usually pose any problems, as eventually they will choose either a heterosexual or a homosexual relationship. Usually a heterosexual because homosexuality is still frowned upon.

this needs to be proven

Agender just means you're trying to be as genderneutral as possible, and bigender means you want to use both your male and female qualities. This doesnt usually pose problems, unless your partner/family/workplaces is extremely conservative, and insisting on media-based gender norms. Which is unfortunately still the case at some places.

this flies in the face of reality
i'm going back to what i said earlier, the vast majority of people out there are clear cis gendered heteroscum who do not fit into the LGBTQTP rainbow of gender class warfare lunacy

Empirical studies see my point above. They don't give a representative image of society. And no, in an anonymous poll, closeted people will still lie about their truth, because they're still scared someone will read it.

anonymous means no name and nothing recognizable

there are true and tested methods that give very accurate numbers, and you only learn that by going to a statistics and probability class in university or even on youtube

i think statistics and probability should be a mandatory part of everyone's education at this point, going deep into this subject because it helps understand a lot about pretty much everything

It doesnt make logical sense, but most of them have such little self-confidence that they will never admit it, not even anonymous. You don't seem to grasp what being closeted really means. Then there is also the problem of people being in denial. Are you seriously claiming that you're going to be able to put that into reliable statistics?
the burden of proof remains on you to show me the number of people in denial and the number of closeted

If anything, i only gained credebility, because i'm in favour of having a realistic representation of the world, rather than just believing only what i see. It is a fact that you can not put things into statistics when the information needed for these statistics is not available.

but you keep bringing up numbers without proof

Yes, i'm very, very critical to American sources. After all America is a christian-conservative and ?bercapitalist country. Every official source there has to be taken with a grain of salt. I'm not saying their statistics are wrong in se. I'm mostly saying they don't show the whole picture.

first of all there's literally nothing wrong with capitalism and there's nothing wrong with american christians, second of all i'm bringing you CDC and WHO stats which are not conservative run entities if you knew anything about them

stop hiding behind this fake "im such a progressive modern european" veil

Yup, and you we both know the actual number of homosexuals with HIV is far lower.

this shows you do not understand how statistics works

do you understand what frequency is? whenever the CDC would test homosexuals, the frequency of homos with hiv was far higher than that of heteros

instead of trying to understand why this is the case, you're simply dismissing the information as corrupt or wrong or erroneous

But when it comes to LGBT issues, estimations from insiders are still more realistic than statistics from the outsiders.

i also know the LGBTPTQ lobby is strong and well funded by leftist billionaires such as SOROS and the likes

you may not see the color of the money but someone does

i know for a fact that LGBTPTQ lifestyle is incompatible with what's written in the quran, considering what kind of people is representing the LGBTBBQ group nowadays

i mean, many of it's adherents promote aids and HIV as being great and totally cool, or how we should all live in a world where everyone has aids

yes, this happened, and yes, it's surreal

No, mathematics is no troll, but you didn't use mathematics in a relevant way.

valid empirical studies are always relevant

explain how 1 in 5 LGBT homosexuals have HIV? what kind of lifestyle does a group has to lead to even get close to that?

Yes i talk a lot emotionally. Because that's exactly what gender dysphoria is about. And also because girls use more emotion, rather than cold math.
You can't explain everything with math. If you don't believe in anything emotional or spiritual, i'm afraid you're at the wrong place.

i am not at the wrong place, because the quran says to study the world around us, and that's what i do, studying the world around includes empirical studies and research, which means observing the world around us and making accurate statements about it

the CDC doesn't lie when it puts out the statistics, and many statistics are not made popular and are kept in the research papers because of illogical emotional reactions these studies could trigger in the general populace

You sure don't seem to have much understanding about how 'The West' really is. There is no such thing as gay/trans being fashionable. Being gay/trans is extremely tough, so someone doing it for the fashion will be getting desillusioned very, very quick. Maybe famous artists can get away with it, but i never once considered big stars as representative and most people who are past their teens don't consider them as role models either.

all the "gay pride" parades
folsom street fair
all the endless shoehorning of homo characters in all media possible

this is proof that lgbtism is being portrayed as being the hot new thing to be by the media and it has its effects on the young impressionable minds

it's not my problem though if entire generations are being told to be weak low energy multisexual pansexual catkins

My estimation was not based on gay or trans, which i both estimated between 5 and 20, and 5 are the official estimates here in the Benelux at least. But mostly the big amount of bisexual, asexual, bigender and agender people. A lot of people you know personally do fit into the spectrums of these, but because they resemble heteronormativity enough, it causes no significant dysphoria to them. However, to claim the majority of people is cisgender or hundred percent heterosexual is just being ignorant.

give empirical studies for that

basically you're saying that many people are forced to have kids by societal pressure and that they hate it

so what would be the solution? counter societal pressure to make everyone a LGBTist ?

But i also said it's an estimation. I hope you understand the meaning of that world. Statistics are somewhat useless in this subjects,

you just lost all credibility

closeted does not matter when the polling is done anonymously

if you knew anything about statistics and probability, you would know it very well

The links you showed don't look very legit. I prefer to believe the excellent gender researchers here in Europe over random American media. Especially as the US is still rather conservative when it comes to LGBT-issues. And perhaps that's just my European pride that i can't take anything Americans say serious.
And the fact that you try to bring STD's into the discussion is just pure trolling. We all know sleeping with a cisgender heterosexual s*** or a transgender s*** makes no difference STD-wise, and that non-perverted trans and gay people are just as clean as non-perverted heterosexuals.

so you totally reject CDC research on the issue?

you don't even know what the CDC is, and who the WHO is

did you know that in europe it's illegal to make statistics based on ethnicity? this simply proves you're not interested in real empirical studies, only the ones that please your emotions

do i need to pull out STD statistics comparing normal people to LGBTist people?

reminder 1 in 5 homosexuals in the USA have HIV

they didn't catch that desperately like you imply

it certainly isn't modern western marxism/socialism

I know i shouldnt respond to trolls. But i'm friendly, so i will reply.
It's obviously not a meme. If it were a meme, it would be a new thing, popularised by the internet. But if you had some knowledge about it you'd see it clearly isn't. Internet just makes them more visible. No-one ever has claimed to be trans or gay because it's a fashionist thing.
The reason people like us are rising in numbers is not because internet popularises it. It's because a lot has not been registrated in the past, and therefore, present-day statistics are more reliable. (besides, archeology seems to suggest it's always been there and it's always been a relatively normal thing. Though generally not accepted, it's always been there)

Not exactly what's happening here in the west though. Society is still rather heteronormative and people not fitting into the binary still don't have a lot of rights.
It is also a statistic that people not fitting into heteronormativity or cisgender are significant in number and my estimations are that they are around 50-75%. That is of course including people who aren't far from the cisgender heteronormative, but are distinct enough to consider them different. (mostly making up bisexual, bigendered, asexual and agendered people) Whilst homosexuality and the transgender spectrum are estimated to be 5 to 20% of the population. Official statistics will rather say 1 to 5%, but we all know there exist a lot of closeted people and people in denial.
My estimations are that heterosexuality and cisgenders are making up a mere 25 to 50%, so claiming it's the norm is just as ridiculous.

It's clear you're underestimating how normal these 'abnormalities' are. Statistics don't mean a lot in some places, because in countries where 'abnormal' people are oppressed, you'll find that the vast majority is hiding it or in denial, therefore the statistics will be low. For example, China is 100% atheist. But nobody really believes that over 1 and a half billion people are all atheist... Whilst in countries where these things are normal (for example Thailand, Philippines, even muslim countries like Indonesia), you see that lot of people are trans/gay and that meeting trans and gay persons is indeed a daily occurence and you're certain to have one in your family. They aren't accepted, but claiming they don't exist is impossible over there.

So unfortunately, your fact is not a fact at all. So thanks for trying to anger me by trolling, but it didn't work, i'm not angry at all.

We can indeed not fully change society to minorities. But society should accomodate for major minories, because they're simply too large to ignore. You can't go claiming the majority of people fit into the cisgender heteronormative idea, because they clearly don't. And the Quran does not claim that either. Because the Quran values scientific research, and therefore scientific breaktroughs will allow you to read the same passages in the Quran in a different light.
Are we the norm? No. Are we normal? Yes.

If you have trouble accepting things that aren't even new. Well, then i'm sorry for you, but sooner or later you'll have to accept that some things exist, even if you'd wish they didn't. You can't just simply ignore things you don't understand. You can't extinguish us either. We'll keep coming back. That's how humans were created. If you make a point out of ignoring God's creation, i'm sure God won't exactly feel flattered by that behaviour.

mathematics is not troll

"It is also a statistic that people not fitting into heteronormativity or cisgender are significant in number and my estimations are that they are around 50-75%."

a number that came out of nowhere

it's a fact that lgbtism is a trend in the USA today, and the cool kids all want to be some kind of special snowflake

we see where this is taking the USA, they started talking about STD epidemics

bravo!

i'll give you a few sources because all you seem capable of doing is talk emotionally

http//usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2011-05-23-Sex-survey-revelations-on-gay-identity_n.htm
http//www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/14/citing-exploding-hiv-epidemic-who-says-for-first-time-all-gay-men-should-take-antitretroviral-drugs/
http//www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/americans-have-no-idea-how-few-gay-people-there-are/257753/
http//www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/apr/7/study-sees-gays-as-17-percent-of-population/
http//www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/23/AR2010092306828.html
http//healthland.time.com/2010/09/26/study-20-of-homosexual-men-are-hiv-positive-but-only-half-know-it/

it's a fact that western style LGBTism is wicked and based on marxist beliefs

It does matter how many people this or that, the very Qur'an says that the majority will lead you astray.

you made a fallacious argument

i may be a minority among a group of LGBT people and they would be the ones leading me astray

im not talking about cults, or organized groups, or sects
i'm talking about a biological fact

i do not know a chinese person, but i can safely say that, through the empirical research that has happened concerning this subject, the probability that the first chinese person i ever meet is a normal person, not transsexual or not homo, would be a heterosexual cis chinese person

it's a question of mathematics

The point is that many peoppple, may be most of us are conditionned

research shows otherwise

society doesn't condition us to be male or female, real life experiments on children has been made, it was catastrophic, it was a nightmare for the kids, they would be forced to be the sex they are not, and they went through deeply traumatising events

everything is natural, i'm not talking about natural, you're saying i made an appeal to nature which i did not, i said that by observation and through empirical research, the majority of people born on earth (as of now, unless we pollute water sources with estrogen agents or estrogen like agents) are cis heterosexual people

Greetings.

First of all i'd like to apologise to saying that some people don't do any effort, because in fact, i do know know if they did or not.

Now about your reaction it does defenitely not support it. Neither does it condemn it. It is neutral. So people following the book should be neutral about it, and judge about the wether or not the person in case has evil intentions for doing it, but not for doing it in itself. (just like with many sins, they have to be put in their context)

And about the soy argument gender-diversity and different sexualities have always been there, in almost each and every culture. Though in thinly populated cultures like the classic Arabian age, it was rare, so not considered of much relevance. Thing is that our population is growing massively to the point of overpopulation. Besides, all linked articles do really sound like scams science. Though that soy thing might be a signficant catalyst, it's in no way to blame for the existance of diversity between humans.

From a standpoint of evolution, then homosexuality and transsexuality are a perfect answer to overpopulation. If it happens in other animals, it happens for a reason. Those reasons are either protecting the species against underpopulation or against overpopulation (as overpopulation will lead to extinction too). Now evolution is God. It's Gods plan for the universe, which none of our humans knows until it happens.

None of you should be obliged to support us. But if you truly value the word of God, you should also 'let us be'. Telling your opinion is totally okay. But punishing us isn't. Please don't say 'you are wrong'. Please instead say 'i think you are wrong'.

And @comrox, inevitably, this will be an eternal struggle, as long as God creates homosexuals and transsexuals, they will try to get into dialoge because they want to be recognised as a creation of God. Why does he creates them? That's his decision. He will have a reason for it, and if you ever have the chance to meet him, he will tell the reason why he makes people like that. He has a path for everyone, and for some people, that path is unusual, whilst for other people, that path is very normal. Also the way people act around those who they meet is part of God's plan, as he wants you to meet these people, and wants you to get into discussions. But what he expects you do to is a mystery for us. We can only use logic. Though i might be using 'female logic which according to men is flawed anyway'.

"different" sexualities and "gender diversity" is a meme

the fact is this the vast majority of the people born on earth are either male or female, and only an infinitesimal portion is NOT that

it's all about statistics

we can't change society as if transexuality was the norm or as if homosexuality was the norm, and in the west, they are changing their societies as if homosexuald, transexuality, and other such abnormalities were the norm

If only we would consider what Allah has instructed us to do
and that is to lower the gaze and dress modestly hmm

today if i had to lower it every time i have to, i would be dead in a car accident or be run over by a bus because i'd be staring at the ground all the time