Questions/Comments on the Quran

I don't believe there has been a single case of any child believing homosexuality as being a norm of society since the fall of the Macedonian Empire in 168BC, and even then greek societies still required relationships with the opposite sex to birth children. That might even be the only case in history in which male-male relationships was the primary relationship. There have been cases throughout history where male-male relationships rears its head (Student-Master relationships in Japanese society, Cowboy lifestyle in the American Wild West period) but that seems to be based upon lust at the chance of opportunity and lack of alternatives rather than societal norm. In the case of the Greek states, male-male marriages was seen as the norm as men would be brought up to be soldiers, fighters, warriors. They will spend 99% of their life in the presence of other men, and it was logical to seek a life partner in the same unit as yourself as that would have been where you spent the most time being on campaigns or in fortifications. Going to the side slightly, its interesting to note that progressively the Roman Republic then Empire became increasingly anti-Women over time, possibly adopting Greek culture of Women as second class citizens as Roman and Greek culture mingled between each other during that time period. I find it ironic that hardline hadithers seem to share common themes of preventing Women from going out, preventing Women from speaking out, disliking Women from earning money and owning property and pushing Women to wear particular articles of clothing is exactly the same steps as the Roman Empire took as time went on. They also shared this concept of a monocultural family upbringing system in which any alternative was seen as strange, discouraged and often met with violence. The crushing of alternative views is common to all authoritarian systems. I also believe that the Roman Empire had a big influence in chauvinism and how women were seen as lesser than men. Unfortunately, it is clear that from what we can see from evidences we have collected, many sects have a adopted this thinking - sad...

4144

Indeed one must delete their ego and become absorbed in Allah. Then one is humbled, and may enter the narrow door to "God's" realm. Have faith

Harmony be with you Seeking, I find it a little sad that instead of just 'agreeing to disagree' people create sects. I mean, everyone will have different views and see things differently, but it's like they refuse to accept that idea, and instead insist that only they can be correct. All it does is cause division and fighting.... A problem is that it is the conjecture that the sects are fighting over and not the essential stuff. The rituals and rites that they usually have (despite "God" being a non-object entity with no person characteristics) is just that thing they may even kill over in some cases. But it is mainly that "looking down on others" which is the saddest thing of them all regarding the dogmatism and zealotry. In the mainstream translation of Qur'an a "believer" is told to kill a polytheist unless they perform the ritual called 'salat(eh)'. Those who advocate that 'salat(eh)' means ritualistic prayer has this and many other literal qualitative issues to deal with. I just had a mental image of a pig eating a cadaver.... -X I do like the idea of eating just herbivorous animals though-I normally prefer beef and chicken to pork anyway, though I need to be a bit more careful in Japan-seriously, if the food doesn't contain seafood, it contains pork. / Personally I find that the old 'Torat(eh)' which has its revelation with Moses was distorted and that the text is supposed to say that consumed meat should be from herbivores. Swines eat just about anything making them omnivores, and the animal is surprisingly similar to humans to the extent that their DNA is very identical to humans, and humans are also omnivores. Swines do not digest grass like cows or sheep either, right? In the Biblical scriptures in the so-called Gospels/Injeel, Jesus allegedly moves several evil spirits from a man and puts those in some swines and then commands them to run off a cliff. I am not sure of the truthfulness in that one, but if it is a hint then it is quite sharp. The population in the town/village nearby got very mad at Jesus it seems due to this and told him to leave which he did. However, I find that all of "God"'s "laws" are logical and rational and there is none of them which are just a test of faith but they are there because they are good for us. I have seen some research studies on the meat of swine which seem to point at the fact that this meat is rather poor quality to eat for humans. I think I recognise one Arabic letter in that! (Sorry, I've been looking up how to learn Arabic and although I can't write or say anything yet, I think I can recognise one or two letters. I get excited when I recognise things in foreign languages, forgive my enthusiasm ) ) Download a chart over all Arabic letters with their phonetic text on it and learn to identify and pronounce them. This you can do without a teacher. I learned them this way when I have been studying Farsi (since my wife is an Iranian). I think it is only the letters (qhaaf) and (ghain) that "Westerners" will have a problem with initially. You may get an irritated throat in the beginning. (ain) has a slightly spectacular pronunciation also, for Arabs/Persians pronounce it a bit like 'ae', Ali is a name with it. From the literal translation, it seems like less 'forbidden' and more like 'do what is right/pristine/pure.' It seems a lot less 'scary' when seen from the literal translation, and more like advise to avoid it for one's own good. Yes. That is at least from what I have been investigating upon so far. My understanding does not fit with where 'haram' occurs in a mainstream translation and I am working on this. From the current interpretation ability it seems 'Al-Masjed Al-Haraam' is actually referring to the upholding of the commandments. What I actually have concluded is that it does not refer to a building whatsoever. By a second thought on the literal translation I gave you, one can say it means advisable/recommended for you. None of "God"'s "encouragements" are dogmatically applied on man and it is free to follow, but by adhering to them you improve the possibility to grow spiritually which is a must to leave the flesh behind (as Jesus put it) and doing so is the point which man has to work on. I find that people to indulge in various rituals and stuff miss certain points on their character. I know you do not know Arabic at all, but there is something fishy about the standard translation while I checked 2173 in the terms of interpretation. It says Anema haram aelaikum It seems that there is a negative particle before the 'haram' word which indicate that it means "Be One Thereof Not - Good Concrete/foundation/pristine - "on/for you"... bla bla. I have been studying the Arabic independently of traditional Arabic grammar and I have not yet made out which is a negative particle and which is, 100%. I know that depending on the structure 'LA' and indicate a negative, but traditional interpreters interpret this wildly with sometimes negative and sometimes not. Such as in 2173 it ought to be possible that it starts negatively. If we separate the letters, AN = It is, MA = Not, HARAM = "Goodly/recommended". Nun in AN refers to entity while 'alef' as I think I said means the state of "being", it is quite logical that in a phrase like this alef + nun stands for "It is". My problem is with MA, it points towards a negative mood. Anyway, as to the structure of "HARAM" it does not support something "forbidden", so the phrase needs to mean something else like I suggested. Nowhere is ha (used in HAram) used in a negative regard (except perhaps in other misinterpretations). It is used in Hakm which can be said means 'wisdom' and Rahman which traditionally is interpreted as 'Gracious' while I interpret literally "Foundation Good Thereof One", and Halal which you already know. There are more, but those sprang to mind right now. MA seems to have a negative meaning like 'not'. It may be that the combination of meem + alef causes a negative form of the usual "Thereof" which I translate 'meem' as. 'meem' also seem to need a reference which is not given in a word which would end with alef. For example, MIN (from) has a reference, it refers to 'entity'. AN occurs frequently in the Arabic discourse and it literally means "Be One/Entity", although I would reverse the order and say "It is". If the text would advocate that it was a negative meaning with "haram" then it would say AN HARAM AELAIKUM. I am going to study "MA" more in detail from now on. Ironically it is very similar referencing as in "AMEN/IMAN" which means "Be Thereof ONE/ENTITY", marking that an entity definitely is from. Arabic is a very logical language once one gets the hang of it. The grammar is built around logic to the letter. And "God" left hints in the scripture, the so-called 'initials' (which begin many chapters) seem to been left there for a purpose of "correcting" what has been distorted by someone who is able to understand them. It was 'saad' and 'nun' which begin chapter 38 and 68 respectively that got my suspicious over their meaning. In those you have the 'initial' letter and then it followed by the conjunction 'wa' (and), and it would be lame if not the lonely letter would carry a certain meaning because you rarely begin a narrative, particularly not a new chapter, with "and". I do not trust traditional interpreters at all nor dictionaries, and I think this is a wise stance. I also think that over history men have tried to interpret it with uncertainty and inferred a lot and sadly failed. It also shows that they tried their hardest at extracting rituals and other typical Pagan activities from the discourse. I have suspicions "tainted" 'Jews' had their hands on it and transferred their Pagan-influenced practices. They had already forcefully made the "Mosaic Law" as strict commandments (without heart) and more or less distorted everything the prophets ever said. You have the example of Masjed Haram, I can give you an example of a passage with it and you can judge yourself 2144 We see the shifting of your face towards the heaven; We will thus set for you a precept (qiblah/focal point is used here) that will be pleasing to you ?You shall set yourself towards respect of the goodly (Al-Masjed Al-Haraam is used here); and wherever you may be, you shall all set yourselves towards it.? Those who have been given the decree know it is the truth from their Lord. And God is not unaware of what you do. Suddenly there is no Pagan statue in the form of a house in a city called Mecca anymore. 2149 And from wherever you go out, you shall set yourself towards respect of the goodly (sujud could also mean "serve" since it implies on "submissive", perhaps "goodly works" may be viable or GOOD ATTITUDE?) ; it is the truth from your Lord; and God is not unaware of what you do. 97 How can the sectarians (my current interpretation of mushrik) have a pledge with God and with His messenger? Except for those with whom you made a pledge near the Restricted Temple regarding the "goodly works" as long as they are upright with you, then you are upright with them. God loves the righteous. I will not give more examples here, but it is quite farfetched to find a house in the desert in the Arabic discourse. You have to falsely abuse words to induce that meaning. It is as farfetched as that "God" would enjoin people to perform a physical Pagan ritual. That is from men themselves. Thank you for the advice! You always give me information to think about more and to help me understand more. ) You are welcome. Have faith

Nice article about arabian dieties, doesnt have the pictures http//al-muqaddasarabianblog.blogspot.ca/2011/12/arabian-idols.html

Salamun Alaikum If I am understanding brother Mazhar's highly technical post he is saying the above verse implies.. for every deceased person Allah has assigned specific heirs. My understanding is slightly different. I am reading.. for everyone's benefit Allah has assigned certain heirs to what is left by parents, family members and spouses. Brother Mazhar's reading implies that there will never be an unmarried orphan siblingless person or such a case is beyond the scope of this statement. I find this understanding problematic. But of course it is up to everyone to seek and understand the "best" meaning from the scripture. May Allah guide us all to the straigh route. Regards, Arman LeKullin It is with respect to every deceased person. Heirs are only for a deceased.

Salam FJR Per my humble understanding (from 46) the minimum age of marriage is the age when ones becomes matured enough to take care of one's financial affairs. You can call this taklif (discernment) age, same thing. The paradigm of requisite knowledge and skills and mental maturity to take care of one's finances is not a fixed thing. It varies from time to time, to society to society and even from individual to individual. I believe that's why Qur'an has not mandated any specific age - rather left this upto each community to decide. However, anyone with the basic common sense would understand - the age of 9 years can never be sufficient to take care of one's financial affairs nor to take care of family affairs in today's world. Communities which propagate such absurd age as age of marriage have chosen to repress their God-gifted sense of right and wrong and their God-gifted ability to reason and judge - in favor of obsolete and possibly distorted and corrupt traditions coming down from the past. May Allah guide us all to the straight route. Regards, Arman

Selam! Just wanted to know what everyone thinks about this In the Qur'an it has been referenced that there are already people in Paradise, ie those who are slain in the way of Allah. So as Judgment Day has yet to come, does that mean these people who are already in paradise will be judged again on Judgment Day?? Or do I have a misreading that there aren't any humans in paradise yet? Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Cheers~ Peace Suppliant, 2154 and not thou say ye of for whom are killed in way the god dead rather alive and however not thou perceiving 474 so let fight in way the god the ones selling the life the world in/with the afterlife and who fights in way the god so are killed or overpowered so shortly we grant him/said person reward of enormous There is also our perception or illusion of time. https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XybFYCt3OY Scroll to 2000 minute for summary of "now". Time for me to go!

I have been confused about these verses too. I am glad I found a thread about this. ;D

thanks, 1882"... so intended lord your that they reach (d) potency they (d)...." it is mentioned that god wanted them to reach adulthood itindicates that it is not for sure for them.Maybe they have a mutation which cause a short lifespan. Siamic twins? t-m-a ,to twin Peace sidi, people in general reach potency, maturity, etc.... 6152 and not go near ye of wealth the orphan except in which it is most best until reaches potency his 2814 and when reached potency his and became mature gave we him arbitrator of and knowledge and like such we reward the good doers 4615 and instructed we the human with parents his kindness of carried him mother his dislike of and gave birth him dislike of and carry his and separation his thirtieth being cycle of until when reached potency his and reached forty date (10 cycle anniversary?) said lord grant me that I thank grace yours the one blessed thou to me and on parents mine and that do work righteous of which please you and correct for me in descendants mine that I perish to you and that I from the acquiescent

Salaam, As per my understanding if any commit suicide or kill himself by drinking or smoking, it is not qatl but it is halaka or halaak. May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr mmKhan The above situation is expressive meanings for "kill himself" which will be described by arabic words as written above; not conceptual meanings; which is deliberately killing oneself. In first case one is not criminally charged; in the other case, if attempt is foiled, he is criminally charged since it is offence.

With regard to chronology, for an excellent analysis, see Neal Robinson's book "Discovering The Quran" http//www.islam-and-muslims.com/islamic-books-online.html

May peace be with you Birdie- I believe I am in agreement with your position, particularly I got to know there are grammatical/spelling differences. Based on disciplines in the linguistic the meaning of the words does change the sense of the verse/s. So with it it changes also the context so the text comprehension. Further, the meaning of the words have changed with the time, like usually in any other language. I think, in virtue of the existing differences comes to confusions by translation from Arabic Quran (e.g. in Hafs) to other language/s. I also find translations to be biased (maybe sometimes intentionally, other times not) towards the beliefs / desires of the translators, which I believe is difficult to see for us non-Arab speaking followers of Quran unless the translation is word by word where it is now more difficult to embed one's biases. With Regards- Sam

God says in the Qur'n enough times that to Him is destiny that we return to Him, that everything returns to Him. Nothing is eternal, only God can be eternal, the rest is His creation and as Good Logic says or that is what I understand is that time is a condition of material life, beyond that will there be time? On the other hand, we know, He says He is just, would He condemn somebody who has not done an eternity of wrong to an eternity of hell. and nobody can to do an eternity of wrong... I do not believe, and I do not see any reason to believe that anything either Paradise or Hell are eternal beside God. On the other hand the kh-l-d expression, is not necessarily eternal, but perpetual, which is a difference. Also it is a way of speaking when God speaks with sarcasm about those who believe themselves beyond REAL punishment, it is like if He said you will rot in Hell, or like when somebody says, I will put you in prison and throw the key, it means do not think it is going to be nothing... It WILL be something and you will rot sking for mercy and mercy will not come... probably not before you become convinced that it will never come. But agains those are parables, we are just warned that it will be very very very wxtreme suffering for which we will see no end. No joke at all. So may God be really merciful and guide us to spare that awful lot. Salaam

Thanks for your posts--

I want to add that it is known to you all that on hajj the pilgrim are wearing only two towels or sometimes one and i have heard that the People used to circulated the Kaaba naked.

Armanaziz, i see only one kind of women treated in this verse; women with orphan. "Other" is not in the verse. To accept your interpretation, a prior verse must have recommended marrying women with orphans but this isn't the case. Besides, you either marry women with orphans or you do not. What is the need for recommending other women for those men not qualified to marry women with orphan? They already know what to do. For those men, 4127 already speaks. Salam Neptin. "i see only one kind of women treated in this verse; women with orphan." - Is this a fact or opinion? Is there any word in the verse that makes you think like this? "To accept your interpretation, a prior verse must have recommended marrying women with orphans but this isn't the case." - Why is it so? Qur'an elaborates the cases where marriage is not desirable (422-24); since women with orphan is not one such case - it should be by default okay to marry them. Does Qur'an has a verse to say it is okay to marry women with physical disability? Being just to orphans transcend giving them their inheritance duely. It entails protecting them, feeding, clothing, sheltering and educating them. Not every single mom can take all these and not every society cares of the plight of the destitute widow and orphan. That is why this verse recommend marriage to alleviate the problem. You are more inclined to help orphans if they are your step children than if they are not. Well I do not want to argue with you over this. I would just invite you to mentally explore a hypothetical scenario. Let's assume someone close to you - say your father. One day your father comes home and says one of his close friends has died over an accident. He feels very bad about the minor children of the friend - so he wants to take care of them both financially and emotonally by regular visits etc. How would you feel? How would your mother feel? How will the society view this arrangement? One day your father comes home and says one of his close friends has died over an accident. He feels very bad about the minor children of the friend - so he wants to marry the widow to take care of the orphan children both financially and emotonally. How would you feel? How would your mother feel? How will the society view this arrangement? Suppose your father asks your opinion to choose between solution 1 and 2 above. Which one would you choose? Why? I believe you are smart enough to figure out your own answers. Just remember Allah does not burden any soul beyond what it can take. May Allah guide us all to the straight route. Regards, Arman

there is also http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606627.msg352304#msg352304

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/00024.%20Salat%20Suad%20Lam%20Waw/25.gifTime Bound Protocol of Servitude and Allegiance The Key to the door of success Sociality is the fundamental characteristic-dimension of the created realm, matter and life both. However, the Man needs to be given training and skills required for functioning successfully in the society. The par excellent social activity is the socialization of the Subject with the Lord-King-Sovereign. The affectionate Sovereign is he who affords opportunities to his subjects to be in his presence occasionally for sometime for paying homage and seeking blessings of him. The subjects gain strength, feel of security and confidence by being in the House of the Sovereign. It becomes subject's pride. We as social beings living in societies and states are well aware of the protocols of Subject-Lord contact. Timings are determined by the Lord. The Subject is required to follow the prescribed dress code and manners of speech and gestures while in the premises of Lord. Universe is the State of the Sustainer Lord of all the created realm and we are the resident subjects of it. The Sustainer Lord, Allah the Exalted has prescribed and made it mandatory for us to contact Him everyday at intervals. This is called in ArabicAs-Salaat The time bound Protocol of Servitude and Allegiance. We will study and discuss it confining ourselves within the Grand Qur'aan. Basic perception and meanings infolded in the Root and The point in time in human history when was prescribed and ordered to be institutionalized. Later generations in timeline discarded it. It was re-institutionalized by the elevated Universal Messenger. It is a prerequisite for recognition as brother in Islam It is a time bound protocol. Number and the appointed timings for its performance during a day Preparatory protocols for its performance; and Prohibition when not to perform it. It is Gesture-speech, highest communicative dynamism Sublime submission of servitude and allegiance; Be always mindful for performing As-Salaat; and just peep in the Hell-Prison to listen its dwellers. Time Bound Protocol of Servitude and Allegiance The Key to the door of success

Sorry. This post looked a bit excessively sarcastic.