The Great kaaba and Abraham.
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Just wondering what if it had been the kaaba and Abraham , could the whole episode have been like this?
2152-78As he said to his father and people ?What is this kaaba to which you are devoted??
They said ?We found our fathers worshipping it.?
He said ?You and your fathers have been clearly misguided.?
They said ?Have you come to us with the truth, or are you simply playing??
He said ?No, your lord is the Lord of heavens and Earth, the One who initiated them. And I bear witness to such.?
?And by God, I will scheme against your statue after you have gone away and given your backs.?
So he ripped its covering to shreds , so that they may turn to him.
They said ?Who has done this to our kaaba? He is surely one of the wicked.?
They said ?We heard a young man mentioning them. He was called Abraham.?
They said ?Bring him before the eyes of the people so that they may be witness.?
They said ?Did you do this to our kaaba O Abraham??
He said ?It was he who resides in the brick structure here who did it, so ask him, if he can speak!?
So they turned and said to themselves ?It is indeed ourselves who have been wicked!?
Then they reverted to their old ideas ?You know that he does not speak!?
He said ?Do you serve besides God that which does not benefit you at all nor harm you??
?I am fed-up of you and to what you serve besides God! Do you not comprehend??
They said ?If you are to do anything, then burn him, and give victory to the one who resides.?
We said ?O fire, be cool and safe upon Abraham.?
And they wanted to harm him, but We made them the losers.
And We saved him and Lot to the land which We have blessed in for the worlds.
And We granted him Isaac and Jacob afterward, and each of them We made a good doer.
And We made them leaders who guide by Our command, and We inspired them to do good work and honour the affirmation and contribute towards betterment, and they were in service to Us.
And Lot, We gave him wisdom and knowledge, and We saved him from the town that used to do vile things. They were a people of evil, corrupt.
And We admitted him into Our mercy. He was of the good doers.
And Noah when he called out before that, thus We responded to him, and We saved him and his family from the great distress.
And We granted him victory against the people that denied Our revelations. They were a people of evil, so We drowned them all.??? what do the idol worshippers think?
God Bless All.
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Salaams Alan,
I have been doing what you are doing all my life-sorry to say , i did it because i was taught to do just that but have come to realise
PICKTHAL And each one hath a goal toward which he turneth; so vie with one another in good works. Wheresoever ye may be, Allah will bring you all together. Lo! Allah is Able to do all things.
Ye serve instead of Allah(attributes) only idols, and ye only invent a lie. Lo! those whom ye serve instead of Allah(attributes) control no provision for you. So seek your provision from Allah(attributes), and serve Him, and give thanks unto Him, (for) unto Him ye will be brought back.
So by serving/embibing the attributes of Allah and by employing the 12 shahr ? you have found the ROAD.
God Bless Alan.
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Peace simple,
So by serving/embibing the attributes of Allah and by employing the 12 shahr you have found the ROAD.
It's quite interesting that you have mentioned serving/embibing the attributes of Allah.... I have thought the same thing as well. The key is not just knowing the attributes, but having lived each of them in order to have a full and meaningful life. Please expound on what you mean by 'employing the 12 shahr'. I'd like to understand.
God bless you!
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Salaams Ilisa,
From my research on the quran - i have found it is Grossly mistranslated.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12407.0
12-shahr
9112
To return from sin or disobedience.
To imbibe and reflect on Gods attributes.
To speak well of.
To devote oneself for others.
To be humble - not proud or not believing that you are important
To accept Godly authorities.
To enjoin good and forbid evil.
To observe the limits set by God.53
To forbid causing death.
To forbid the bloodshed.
To forbid vilification with pride.
To forbid doing opposite to Allah or according to other then Allah ? Strangling, beating, repelling, corruption and that you devour by obscenity or lewdness except what is legal to you and what lawful by labour and the seeking of knowledge of fate through divination.God Bless Ilisa.
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Peace Bro simple,
Interesting. Most interesting. ....And what is your supporting evidence that these are the 12 shahr? ....I mean, then, in any instance in the Qur'an where 'Shahr' is spoken of, is one of the 12 meanings what you would apply? Or can you find any one of the 12 shahr that you've listed mentioned in an ayah nearby?
Respectfully,
ILisa
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Peace Bro simple,
Interesting. Most interesting. ....And what is your supporting evidence that these are the 12 shahr? ....I mean, then, in any instance in the Qur'an where 'Shahr' is spoken of, is one of the 12 meanings what you would apply? Or can you find any one of the 12 shahr that you've listed mentioned in an ayah nearby?
Respectfully,
ILisa
O0
Sura 9 mainly talks about the shahr 009.002 009.005 009.036 009.037 the four forbidden and the 12 in all and the eight encouraged.
and "yes" usualy when the word crops up anywhere you can find a particular shahr talked about near by.
the 12, 8, 4 shahr are apoken about in other parts of the quran aswell but thay have been mistranslated into captains, springs and animals to my understanding.
Allah's commands have been hidden away from mens understanding - so the muslims are in turmoil al over the place.
The only thing for them to do now is follow western countries for knowledge, law and order.
Gods Blessings.
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Salaams Br,
something for you - if you can comprehend it all.
The 12 shahr(interacrions) came about from the confrontations between Moses and Pharaoh- as you will see below, in order to bring about the good repute and the agreeable nature of people AND THE 12 MONTHS WEREN?T BROUGHT OUT WHEN THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH WERE CREATED ? UNFORTUNATELY.
936
Verily the number of interactions (between people) with Allah are - twelve interaction in the Book of Allah ????.of them four are forbidden???..754-103???
Allah He who created the good repute and agreeableness with six punishments and then set the example over the dominion He lets overwhelm with decadence the prosperity swiftly and the Avaricious,the deceiving and the whisperers are subjected to His command verily His is the creation and the command blessed be Allah lord of mankind.AND THEN, IN SURA SEVEN, ALLAH GIVES THE HISTORY OF THE SIX SPANS AND HOW THEY WERE SORTED.
Noah
Ad people
Thamud people
Lut and his people
Madyan people
People of Moses and Pharaoh.The 12 shahr are the twelve captains and are the 10 or so commandments in the previouse scriptures also.
Using lanes and qd.
Old translation
260
And remember Moses prayed for water for his people; We said "Strike the rock with thy staff." Then gushed forth therefrom twelve springs. Each group knew its own place for water. So eat and drink of the sustenance provided by Allah, and do no evil nor mischief on the (face of the) earth.New translation
2160
And remember when Moses asked for the enmity against his people; We said seek a way by rebelling against him / by countering the segregator/ hard of heart ? political person then gushed forth from it 12 to hasten to/ incline to/ direct to knew every people their permeation, take support and permeate from sustenance (of) Allah and do not act corruptly in the earth/ disposition making mischief.The 12 to follow are the 12 shahr. But they are known as I think the 17, 12 or 10 commandments in the bible or taurat.
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6287.0
old translation
7160
We divided them into twelve tribes or nations. We directed Moses by inspiration, when his (thirsty) people asked him for water "Strike the rock with thy staff" out of it there gushed forth twelve springs Each group knew its own place for water. We gave them the shade of clouds, and sent down to them manna and quails, (saying) "Eat of the good things we have provided for you" (but they rebelled); to us they did no harm, but they harmed their own souls.New translation
7159
And of/ for people Moses a Model guides with truth and therewith establishes justice.
7160
And We portioned/ divided their into 12 simple Models/ examples to follow and We inspired to Moses when asked he for the purge/enmity (on) his people that seek a way by rebelling/ by countering the hard of heart and perceived out of it/ from him 12 to hasten to knew each/ all people their permeation and We provided cover on them (of) sorrow and We sent upon them the grace and contentment take support of good things We have provided you and did not they wrong Us but they were to themselves doing wrong.Gods Blessings.
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Peace bro simple,
Thanks for the additional information. I think that 936 is the most profound evidence for your theory. Also, do I understand correctly that you are saying that Allah has told humanity of six examples of divine punishment in the Qur'an? If so, this is a great 'tie in' for your understanding of the ayat that you've mentioned.
As for what I can see and of what I understand, you have made a good case. I'll definitely keep it in mind.
Be well. peace
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Salam,
Is that an coincident that the shia traditions have 12 Imams?
And wasn't the followers of Jesus also 12?
Peace Majidah
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Salam,
Is that an coincident that the shia traditions have 12 Imams?
And wasn't the followers of Jesus also 12?
Peace Majidah
Salaams Majidah, Ilisa,
Truthfully I think to get at the truth of the matter we really need the oldest bible to see the words which are now names of people - and they may turn out differently.
But the 12 Imams - well so many things are copied from Christianity as they were doing so well, don't we all copy what ever gives success its a human trait I think and could be a coincident as well.
I think if we believe in such a thing as the 12-shahr being interaction between people - then the original bible must have them aswell.
Gods Blessings on you both.
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Salam
2140 "Or do you say that Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Patriarchs were all Jewish or Nazarene?" Say "Are you more knowledgeable or is God?" Who is more wicked than one who conceals a testimony with him from God? God is not unaware of what you do.
2141 That was a nation that passed away, to them is what they earned and to you is what you have earned; you will not be asked about what they did.That nation had passed away.... we will not be asked of what they did? Does that means we don't have to care that much? or what they did we doesn't have to follow? (i.e what Abraham did, Moses, Jesus did?)
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Salaams All,
So was Abraham an idol breaker like the Afghans? or did he lie about it as well?
If anyone would like to answer please check out the links first, Thanks.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15772.msg153171#msg153171
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15462.msg148629#msg148629
God Bless.
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Peace,
To say that Abraham lied is a gross offence to him because we must take in considerations what this all lead to, right!?Abraham might have been a visionary and might well known the consequences of his act before he even had done it.
If you have read Quran you must have found out that idolworshipping is a gross sin to do, so if Abraham was the founder of how to reach out to the Higher force ( Allah) then of course it's a very logic move to approve his findings by destroy idols for them to make them think of what they were upholding. But this not have to mean that it's ok to go and destroy idols everywhere u find them especially not now when the truths already have been revealed for us.
And to add more to this subject about the Kaaba, this becomes so ironic if Abraham first destroyed the idols and then lay the ground to another bigger idol "kaaba" in Makka.
Just consider this and see how ridiculous it sounds hmmm.
Maria
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Peace,
To say that Abraham lied is a gross offence to him because we must take in considerations what this all lead to, right!?Abraham might have been a visionary and might well known the consequences of his act before he even had done it.
If you have read Quran you must have found out that idolworshipping is a gross sin to do, so if Abraham was the founder of how to reach out to the Higher force ( Allah) then of course it's a very logic move to approve his findings by destroy idols for them to make them think of what they were upholding. But this not have to mean that it's ok to go and destroy idols everywhere u find them especially not now when the truths already have been revealed for us.
And to add more to this subject about the Kaaba, this becomes so ironic if Abraham first destroyed the idols and then lay the ground to another bigger idol "kaaba" in Makka.
Just consider this and see how ridiculous it sounds hmmm.
Maria
Sorry Maria,
the quran isn't about stone idols, it doesn't say anything about stone idols- its about our actions - bad and good.
stone idols don't say or do anything- its us and our actions- give it some thought.
God Bless All.
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Peace,
It's obvious that you haven't read my post well enough or else you wouldn't jump to conclusions so fast.
I haven't mention that Quran is about stones at all.
But Quran will guide us and point about what is good and what is bad.
I personally believe that we shall reach out to God in form of spiritual act with our mind and physical acts are then not necessary.
All stories in Quran have a message for us that covers different kind of issues and this issue of finding your God and the direction is pointing to Abraham and he was the first one who did this. And to understand what others in his society did, the Quran show us that they were idolworshippers and uphold things which didn't gain them at all.
Now you can speak if you like, and i hope you have read the whole of my post....
Maria
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Hi Maria,
the Quran show us that they were idolworshippers..
Before taking this any further, do you mean- the quran shows us they were stone idol worshippers?
God Bless.
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Peace,
Lol, no, an idol can be whatever you want it to be. You can idolworship a stone, a tree, an animal, a building, planets, other humans etc.
Maria