The Great kaaba and Abraham.
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Peace Bro simple,
Interesting. Most interesting. ....And what is your supporting evidence that these are the 12 shahr? ....I mean, then, in any instance in the Qur'an where 'Shahr' is spoken of, is one of the 12 meanings what you would apply? Or can you find any one of the 12 shahr that you've listed mentioned in an ayah nearby?
Respectfully,
ILisa
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Peace Bro simple,
Interesting. Most interesting. ....And what is your supporting evidence that these are the 12 shahr? ....I mean, then, in any instance in the Qur'an where 'Shahr' is spoken of, is one of the 12 meanings what you would apply? Or can you find any one of the 12 shahr that you've listed mentioned in an ayah nearby?
Respectfully,
ILisa
O0
Sura 9 mainly talks about the shahr 009.002 009.005 009.036 009.037 the four forbidden and the 12 in all and the eight encouraged.
and "yes" usualy when the word crops up anywhere you can find a particular shahr talked about near by.
the 12, 8, 4 shahr are apoken about in other parts of the quran aswell but thay have been mistranslated into captains, springs and animals to my understanding.
Allah's commands have been hidden away from mens understanding - so the muslims are in turmoil al over the place.
The only thing for them to do now is follow western countries for knowledge, law and order.
Gods Blessings.
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Salaams Br,
something for you - if you can comprehend it all.
The 12 shahr(interacrions) came about from the confrontations between Moses and Pharaoh- as you will see below, in order to bring about the good repute and the agreeable nature of people AND THE 12 MONTHS WEREN?T BROUGHT OUT WHEN THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH WERE CREATED ? UNFORTUNATELY.
936
Verily the number of interactions (between people) with Allah are - twelve interaction in the Book of Allah ????.of them four are forbidden???..754-103???
Allah He who created the good repute and agreeableness with six punishments and then set the example over the dominion He lets overwhelm with decadence the prosperity swiftly and the Avaricious,the deceiving and the whisperers are subjected to His command verily His is the creation and the command blessed be Allah lord of mankind.AND THEN, IN SURA SEVEN, ALLAH GIVES THE HISTORY OF THE SIX SPANS AND HOW THEY WERE SORTED.
Noah
Ad people
Thamud people
Lut and his people
Madyan people
People of Moses and Pharaoh.The 12 shahr are the twelve captains and are the 10 or so commandments in the previouse scriptures also.
Using lanes and qd.
Old translation
260
And remember Moses prayed for water for his people; We said "Strike the rock with thy staff." Then gushed forth therefrom twelve springs. Each group knew its own place for water. So eat and drink of the sustenance provided by Allah, and do no evil nor mischief on the (face of the) earth.New translation
2160
And remember when Moses asked for the enmity against his people; We said seek a way by rebelling against him / by countering the segregator/ hard of heart ? political person then gushed forth from it 12 to hasten to/ incline to/ direct to knew every people their permeation, take support and permeate from sustenance (of) Allah and do not act corruptly in the earth/ disposition making mischief.The 12 to follow are the 12 shahr. But they are known as I think the 17, 12 or 10 commandments in the bible or taurat.
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6287.0
old translation
7160
We divided them into twelve tribes or nations. We directed Moses by inspiration, when his (thirsty) people asked him for water "Strike the rock with thy staff" out of it there gushed forth twelve springs Each group knew its own place for water. We gave them the shade of clouds, and sent down to them manna and quails, (saying) "Eat of the good things we have provided for you" (but they rebelled); to us they did no harm, but they harmed their own souls.New translation
7159
And of/ for people Moses a Model guides with truth and therewith establishes justice.
7160
And We portioned/ divided their into 12 simple Models/ examples to follow and We inspired to Moses when asked he for the purge/enmity (on) his people that seek a way by rebelling/ by countering the hard of heart and perceived out of it/ from him 12 to hasten to knew each/ all people their permeation and We provided cover on them (of) sorrow and We sent upon them the grace and contentment take support of good things We have provided you and did not they wrong Us but they were to themselves doing wrong.Gods Blessings.
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Peace bro simple,
Thanks for the additional information. I think that 936 is the most profound evidence for your theory. Also, do I understand correctly that you are saying that Allah has told humanity of six examples of divine punishment in the Qur'an? If so, this is a great 'tie in' for your understanding of the ayat that you've mentioned.
As for what I can see and of what I understand, you have made a good case. I'll definitely keep it in mind.
Be well. peace
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Salam,
Is that an coincident that the shia traditions have 12 Imams?
And wasn't the followers of Jesus also 12?
Peace Majidah
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Salam,
Is that an coincident that the shia traditions have 12 Imams?
And wasn't the followers of Jesus also 12?
Peace Majidah
Salaams Majidah, Ilisa,
Truthfully I think to get at the truth of the matter we really need the oldest bible to see the words which are now names of people - and they may turn out differently.
But the 12 Imams - well so many things are copied from Christianity as they were doing so well, don't we all copy what ever gives success its a human trait I think and could be a coincident as well.
I think if we believe in such a thing as the 12-shahr being interaction between people - then the original bible must have them aswell.
Gods Blessings on you both.
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Salam
2140 "Or do you say that Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Patriarchs were all Jewish or Nazarene?" Say "Are you more knowledgeable or is God?" Who is more wicked than one who conceals a testimony with him from God? God is not unaware of what you do.
2141 That was a nation that passed away, to them is what they earned and to you is what you have earned; you will not be asked about what they did.That nation had passed away.... we will not be asked of what they did? Does that means we don't have to care that much? or what they did we doesn't have to follow? (i.e what Abraham did, Moses, Jesus did?)
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Salaams All,
So was Abraham an idol breaker like the Afghans? or did he lie about it as well?
If anyone would like to answer please check out the links first, Thanks.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15772.msg153171#msg153171
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15462.msg148629#msg148629
God Bless.
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Peace,
To say that Abraham lied is a gross offence to him because we must take in considerations what this all lead to, right!?Abraham might have been a visionary and might well known the consequences of his act before he even had done it.
If you have read Quran you must have found out that idolworshipping is a gross sin to do, so if Abraham was the founder of how to reach out to the Higher force ( Allah) then of course it's a very logic move to approve his findings by destroy idols for them to make them think of what they were upholding. But this not have to mean that it's ok to go and destroy idols everywhere u find them especially not now when the truths already have been revealed for us.
And to add more to this subject about the Kaaba, this becomes so ironic if Abraham first destroyed the idols and then lay the ground to another bigger idol "kaaba" in Makka.
Just consider this and see how ridiculous it sounds hmmm.
Maria
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Peace,
To say that Abraham lied is a gross offence to him because we must take in considerations what this all lead to, right!?Abraham might have been a visionary and might well known the consequences of his act before he even had done it.
If you have read Quran you must have found out that idolworshipping is a gross sin to do, so if Abraham was the founder of how to reach out to the Higher force ( Allah) then of course it's a very logic move to approve his findings by destroy idols for them to make them think of what they were upholding. But this not have to mean that it's ok to go and destroy idols everywhere u find them especially not now when the truths already have been revealed for us.
And to add more to this subject about the Kaaba, this becomes so ironic if Abraham first destroyed the idols and then lay the ground to another bigger idol "kaaba" in Makka.
Just consider this and see how ridiculous it sounds hmmm.
Maria
Sorry Maria,
the quran isn't about stone idols, it doesn't say anything about stone idols- its about our actions - bad and good.
stone idols don't say or do anything- its us and our actions- give it some thought.
God Bless All.
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Peace,
It's obvious that you haven't read my post well enough or else you wouldn't jump to conclusions so fast.
I haven't mention that Quran is about stones at all.
But Quran will guide us and point about what is good and what is bad.
I personally believe that we shall reach out to God in form of spiritual act with our mind and physical acts are then not necessary.
All stories in Quran have a message for us that covers different kind of issues and this issue of finding your God and the direction is pointing to Abraham and he was the first one who did this. And to understand what others in his society did, the Quran show us that they were idolworshippers and uphold things which didn't gain them at all.
Now you can speak if you like, and i hope you have read the whole of my post....
Maria
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Hi Maria,
the Quran show us that they were idolworshippers..
Before taking this any further, do you mean- the quran shows us they were stone idol worshippers?
God Bless.
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Peace,
Lol, no, an idol can be whatever you want it to be. You can idolworship a stone, a tree, an animal, a building, planets, other humans etc.
Maria
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Peace,
Lol, no, an idol can be whatever you want it to be. You can idolworship a stone, a tree, an animal, a building, planets, other humans etc.
Maria
Well Maria, you have put your self in the spot- i think.
As far as i know stone/ tree/ animal/ planet worships arn't evil- they do not harm anyone but are only a waste of time for people. And expecting anything from them is a waste as well and that is all.
Are they mentioned in the quran? if so where?
God Bless.
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Peace,
To waste your time on nonsense rituals are in itself a bad thing when God have give you a big brain to use for higher causes.
And don't sneaking around the bush my friend, why i have to find those attributes in Quran?
I'm not only take Quran as a guideline, I do take all that I find as valueable informations as tools for my understanding.
And speak what you like, why I must try to prove something to you!?
Maria
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Salaams Maria,
And speak what you like, why I must try to prove something to you!?
I didn't mean prove something to me i was just clarifying what you said to see if it was fruitful for me and others here.
God Bless.
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Peace,
oh, so you are the new judge in here?
So your job is to locate who has something wise to come up with or not?Sorry to sound rude but, I really much dislike this kind of attitude and therefore I don't feel to reveal anything to you and this thread.
Maria
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Hi Maria,
of course - reveal what you want, but allow people to ask questions, that isn't unfair is it? or is it?
confused