Muhammad Wrote the quran
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Salaam siki,
salam i think the red part of AB's post is very critical , and you have completely ignored it.
I would like this to be verified by other Classical Arabic experts like Samia, Anwar, Ayman etc. before believing it because of the history associated with him.
If what he is saying is true then that causes an impossible phenomenon to exist !
Then it would mean that the Prophet was not able to read other books before the Qur'aan, but was able to write other books before the Qur'aan, which is an impossibility. That is what Samia is questioning, if I am not mistaken.
I looked up many translators and they are 50/50 on this. So at this point I will have to wait for consensus from Classical Arabic experts.
Chi Chi Chi,, losing a good friend/admirer doesn't make any difference to you?
You are the one making that choice, not me
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Salam Samia
Yes, that is because the Ha in the word "Takhutuh" i.e. the ha is referring to the Quran, if it was meant to be nakirah like reading any book then the ha should not be there
How about this verse3144
What does the "Ha" refer to in this verse? Isn't "rasoul " nakirah "indefinite"?no because someone who can't read must not be able to write
Says who? Is it a law you know? I know an English student of mine who wrote very beautiful Arabic, but could not read it. Calligraphers do not necessarily understand what they write. I can write Persian if dictated to me but I do not understand it, so I do not read it. It just happens I know its phonetics.
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while I don't want it to look like a competition as it is never that way, you made it look like it LOL
every one needs a pat of encouragement once in a while , and i don't believe in acting like a miser ,after all you are scarifying your sleep for a greater cause, and we are benefiting for free.
siki
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Salaam sister Samia,
I know an English student of mine who wrote very beautiful Arabic, but could not read it. Calligraphers do not necessarily understand what they write. I can write Persian if dictated to me but I do not understand it, so I do not read it.
Apologies for barging in but if someone can write something he/she can read/recite it without understanding it. You can write Persian if dictated to you so you can read/recite it even if you don't understand it. If you cannot read/recite something, it will be impossible to write it. You are mixing "understanding" with "reading" !
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every one needs a pat of encouragement once in a while , and i don't believe in acting like a miser ,after all you are scarifying your sleep for a greater cause, and we are benefiting for free.
siki
Thanks mate
be assured that on my side it is only for the sake of truth, i care less if I have proven wring as long as comeplling quran evidneces are provided and I will concede like a man, I have no shame in that department
Take care
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How about this verse3144
What does the "Ha" refer to in this verse? Isn't "rasoul " nakirah "indefinite"?Wrong the ha is referring to Mohammad and Mohammad is not a nakirah
Says who? Is it a law you know? I know an English student of mine who wrote very beautiful Arabic, but could not read it.
that is called drawing not writing
Calligraphers do not necessarily understand what they write.
They must br Ummis then, I guess their job is mostely drawing, they don't need to understand what they draw
I can write Persian if dictated to me but I do not understand it, so I do not read it. It just happens I know its phonetics.
then you are an Ummi regarding persian language
do you have any Quran arguments please?
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Salaam bro siki,
He is not sacrificing any sleep right now ! It is not past 10 pm in Australia at this time ! I am the one sacrificing my sleep ! P
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LOL
I have to say Tanveer that was funny
Thanks for the laugh,
btw I stayed all night bloody writing to this thread, possibly the last 3 nights in a row
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Salaam bro siki,
Goodbye friend '(
So does that mean I will not be able to come visit you in Islamabad now ? '(
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Salaam Tanweer
Maybe you're right in the example about me, but as for my student, he did not know how to read Arabic, he just liked the writing of Arabic, like calligraphers. As for mixing between reading and understanding, what's the point of reading? Why read what you do not understand?
Which brings me back to the verse. The verb used is (takhu6), which is different from (taktub). We should understand that if a word is used in the quraan to convey a certain meaning, we should not attribute this specific meaning to a different word. "yakhu6" is different from "yaktub". It does not involove understanding. Calligrapher in Arabic is derived from this verb "kha66aa6" not "kaatib writer".
So, this verb cannot apply to the quraan. Muhammad was not "yakhu66" alquraan, because he understood it. But he did not "kha6" before what he did not understand.
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Illiteracy as meant in Qur?an ?the ignorance of God? is a matter of degree and as a young teen my introduction to Islam was actually the very first word/verse revealed?
961 Read! in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created-
Thus a command to, ?be? literate (not ignorant of Islam) fulfilled in last verse revealed?
53 ?This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion?
As to who did the mechanics of writing Qur?an ? that is irrelevant, although task was most likely delegated to the best scribe; only makes sense.
Yes, stayed up most of the night reading this entire thread and all associated links...lol
Although birds are singing and dawn is approaching -- great time for prayer... sun
Peace
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Illiteracy as meant in Qur?an ?the ignorance of God? is a matter of degree and as a young teen my introduction to Islam was actually the very first word/verse revealed?
Salam bro
but Allah kept calling Mohammad Ummi at leats couple of time, would that mean Allah was calling him an ignorant of God?
how about this one
Allah has told us to follow the Nabi the Ummi
would that mean Allah was telling us to follow the prophet who is a God ignorant?
Cheers
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Salaam sister Samia,
Apologies for barging in but if someone can write something he/she can read/recite it without understanding it. You can write Persian if dictated to you so you can read/recite it even if you don't understand it. If you cannot read/recite something, it will be impossible to write it. You are mixing "understanding" with "reading" !
Thanks ,, for saving me the effort of phrasing
siki
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Salaam bro siki,
handshake i will make up, if you bring along eat a 16 oz jumbo pack of plain salted LAYS
Isn't that considered EXTORTION ? elektro
Also Lays chips (and most other brands) are cooked in vegetable oil which is not good for health because it contains a lot of toxic free radicals. Now I would not want to harm a friend !
http//www.hdlighthouse.org/treatment-care/care/hdltriad/diet/updates/1161hne.php
http//www.mercola.com/products/coconut_oil.htm
http//www.mnwelldir.org/docs/nutrition/coconut.htm
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Peace all,
Coming back to the topic of this thread
If AB's interpretation is right and The God talks about the Prophet not writing the Qur'aan by his hand in 2948 because otherwise the doubters would have had reason to doubt, then do you think that the doubters would have no reason to doubt if instead of writing the Qur'aan with his hand, the Prophet dictated to others and the scribes wrote it with their hands ?
In other words
If the Prophet writes the Qur'aan with his hand, then the doubters would have reason to doubt.
BUT
If the Prophet dictates the Qur'aan and others write it with their hands, then the doubters would not doubt.
So The God does not want the Prophet to write the Qur'aan with his hand, but does not have a problem with him dictating to others and they writing it down with their hands. The former would create a doubt that the Qur'aan is from The God, but the latter won't.
DOES THAT SOUND LOGICAL ???
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Peace all,
Thanks AB for taking the time to write a concise explanation. I think I understand now, atleast better than before what you're trying to say. )
Having looked at both arguments, it is my understanding that Muhammad could not and did not read or write any book (scripture or otherwise) before quran. However, after the revelation, he gained these skills. Not that this is my reasoning, it boggles the mind that a 'messenger' of God was not able to read or write the scripture revealed through him. The emphasis on the pen/writing and reading in quran is enough to convince me that a messenger of God would atleast have those basic skills, practice what you preach, so to speak.PEACE