Muhammad Wrote the quran
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every one needs a pat of encouragement once in a while , and i don't believe in acting like a miser ,after all you are scarifying your sleep for a greater cause, and we are benefiting for free.
siki
Thanks mate
be assured that on my side it is only for the sake of truth, i care less if I have proven wring as long as comeplling quran evidneces are provided and I will concede like a man, I have no shame in that department
Take care
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How about this verse3144
What does the "Ha" refer to in this verse? Isn't "rasoul " nakirah "indefinite"?Wrong the ha is referring to Mohammad and Mohammad is not a nakirah
Says who? Is it a law you know? I know an English student of mine who wrote very beautiful Arabic, but could not read it.
that is called drawing not writing
Calligraphers do not necessarily understand what they write.
They must br Ummis then, I guess their job is mostely drawing, they don't need to understand what they draw
I can write Persian if dictated to me but I do not understand it, so I do not read it. It just happens I know its phonetics.
then you are an Ummi regarding persian language
do you have any Quran arguments please?
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Salaam bro siki,
He is not sacrificing any sleep right now ! It is not past 10 pm in Australia at this time ! I am the one sacrificing my sleep ! P
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LOL
I have to say Tanveer that was funny
Thanks for the laugh,
btw I stayed all night bloody writing to this thread, possibly the last 3 nights in a row
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Salaam bro siki,
Goodbye friend '(
So does that mean I will not be able to come visit you in Islamabad now ? '(
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Salaam Tanweer
Maybe you're right in the example about me, but as for my student, he did not know how to read Arabic, he just liked the writing of Arabic, like calligraphers. As for mixing between reading and understanding, what's the point of reading? Why read what you do not understand?
Which brings me back to the verse. The verb used is (takhu6), which is different from (taktub). We should understand that if a word is used in the quraan to convey a certain meaning, we should not attribute this specific meaning to a different word. "yakhu6" is different from "yaktub". It does not involove understanding. Calligrapher in Arabic is derived from this verb "kha66aa6" not "kaatib writer".
So, this verb cannot apply to the quraan. Muhammad was not "yakhu66" alquraan, because he understood it. But he did not "kha6" before what he did not understand.
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Illiteracy as meant in Qur?an ?the ignorance of God? is a matter of degree and as a young teen my introduction to Islam was actually the very first word/verse revealed?
961 Read! in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created-
Thus a command to, ?be? literate (not ignorant of Islam) fulfilled in last verse revealed?
53 ?This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion?
As to who did the mechanics of writing Qur?an ? that is irrelevant, although task was most likely delegated to the best scribe; only makes sense.
Yes, stayed up most of the night reading this entire thread and all associated links...lol
Although birds are singing and dawn is approaching -- great time for prayer... sun
Peace
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Illiteracy as meant in Qur?an ?the ignorance of God? is a matter of degree and as a young teen my introduction to Islam was actually the very first word/verse revealed?
Salam bro
but Allah kept calling Mohammad Ummi at leats couple of time, would that mean Allah was calling him an ignorant of God?
how about this one
Allah has told us to follow the Nabi the Ummi
would that mean Allah was telling us to follow the prophet who is a God ignorant?
Cheers
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Salaam sister Samia,
Apologies for barging in but if someone can write something he/she can read/recite it without understanding it. You can write Persian if dictated to you so you can read/recite it even if you don't understand it. If you cannot read/recite something, it will be impossible to write it. You are mixing "understanding" with "reading" !
Thanks ,, for saving me the effort of phrasing
siki
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Salaam bro siki,
handshake i will make up, if you bring along eat a 16 oz jumbo pack of plain salted LAYS
Isn't that considered EXTORTION ? elektro
Also Lays chips (and most other brands) are cooked in vegetable oil which is not good for health because it contains a lot of toxic free radicals. Now I would not want to harm a friend !
http//www.hdlighthouse.org/treatment-care/care/hdltriad/diet/updates/1161hne.php
http//www.mercola.com/products/coconut_oil.htm
http//www.mnwelldir.org/docs/nutrition/coconut.htm
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Peace all,
Coming back to the topic of this thread
If AB's interpretation is right and The God talks about the Prophet not writing the Qur'aan by his hand in 2948 because otherwise the doubters would have had reason to doubt, then do you think that the doubters would have no reason to doubt if instead of writing the Qur'aan with his hand, the Prophet dictated to others and the scribes wrote it with their hands ?
In other words
If the Prophet writes the Qur'aan with his hand, then the doubters would have reason to doubt.
BUT
If the Prophet dictates the Qur'aan and others write it with their hands, then the doubters would not doubt.
So The God does not want the Prophet to write the Qur'aan with his hand, but does not have a problem with him dictating to others and they writing it down with their hands. The former would create a doubt that the Qur'aan is from The God, but the latter won't.
DOES THAT SOUND LOGICAL ???
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Peace all,
Thanks AB for taking the time to write a concise explanation. I think I understand now, atleast better than before what you're trying to say. )
Having looked at both arguments, it is my understanding that Muhammad could not and did not read or write any book (scripture or otherwise) before quran. However, after the revelation, he gained these skills. Not that this is my reasoning, it boggles the mind that a 'messenger' of God was not able to read or write the scripture revealed through him. The emphasis on the pen/writing and reading in quran is enough to convince me that a messenger of God would atleast have those basic skills, practice what you preach, so to speak.PEACE
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peace
lets look at the two options we have here
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Muhammad could read and write.
so the disbelievers will say he wrote it, as in, he made it all up. but that can't be since there's information in it that nobody at that time could've known, things that we discovered in 20th century. -
Muhammad could not read or write.
he told it to others and they wrote it down. but how could he be sure they're really writing what he's aying. simple. if they were adding or changing things God would've told Muhammad about it.
like in that surah where he told something to his wife and she told it to somebody and he told her that he knew about it and she asked him how does he know and he said that God told him.
plus if humans did write it there would be contradictions in it.
and since there are thing in the qur'an that no human could've known 14 centuries ago, it is a proof that it is a word from God.so even if he did write it, he didn't come up with it
and even if he didn't know how to write and had to tell it to other they couldn't have lied or added or left out things. -
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peace
and even if he didn't know how to write and had to tell it to other they couldn't have lied or added or left out things.
Not necessarily lie, but they could have made spelling mistakes in words specific to the quraan and written in both the familiar way and an unfamiliar way. He wouldn't have been able to know, or make the writers know the difference in spelling of the same word in different verses or contexts, such as "bismillaahi" in bismillahir-rahmaanir-rahim and bism rabbika and or the word "bas6a increase" which is written with a seen in 2247 and with a Sad in 769 in one manner.
I agree with the other points.
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Peace all,
A book could consist of a few written pages bound together, and then we can keep expanding the same book by adding more written pages to it, and the expanded book would still be a book. For example the current Bible consists of many "books" that were added to it at different periods, but the end result is still a book !
The Qur'aan was a written book even when it comprised of only a few written pages kept together containing a few verses in the beginning. Subsequently, as more verses were revealed, those verses were written on additional pages and added to the starting book, and thus the book grew in size until all the verses were revealed, at which time it was still a book. Thus it was a book at all those stages !
Salam Tanveer~
Good Point! handshake
Honor
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peace
Not necessarily lie, but they could have made spelling mistakes in words specific to the quraan and written in both the familiar way and an unfamiliar way. He wouldn't have been able to know, or make the writers know the difference in spelling of the same word in different verses or contexts, such as "bismillaahi" in bismillahir-rahmaanir-rahim and bism rabbika and or the word "bas6a increase" which is written with a seen in 2247 and with a Sad in 769 in one manner.
I agree with the other points.
do you thing God would allow spelling errors in the qur'an? don't you think He would've said something to Muhammad? same way He told him about the thing with his wife.