Muhammad Wrote the quran
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LOL
I have to say Tanveer that was funny
Thanks for the laugh,
btw I stayed all night bloody writing to this thread, possibly the last 3 nights in a row
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Salaam bro siki,
Goodbye friend '(
So does that mean I will not be able to come visit you in Islamabad now ? '(
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Salaam Tanweer
Maybe you're right in the example about me, but as for my student, he did not know how to read Arabic, he just liked the writing of Arabic, like calligraphers. As for mixing between reading and understanding, what's the point of reading? Why read what you do not understand?
Which brings me back to the verse. The verb used is (takhu6), which is different from (taktub). We should understand that if a word is used in the quraan to convey a certain meaning, we should not attribute this specific meaning to a different word. "yakhu6" is different from "yaktub". It does not involove understanding. Calligrapher in Arabic is derived from this verb "kha66aa6" not "kaatib writer".
So, this verb cannot apply to the quraan. Muhammad was not "yakhu66" alquraan, because he understood it. But he did not "kha6" before what he did not understand.
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Illiteracy as meant in Qur?an ?the ignorance of God? is a matter of degree and as a young teen my introduction to Islam was actually the very first word/verse revealed?
961 Read! in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created-
Thus a command to, ?be? literate (not ignorant of Islam) fulfilled in last verse revealed?
53 ?This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion?
As to who did the mechanics of writing Qur?an ? that is irrelevant, although task was most likely delegated to the best scribe; only makes sense.
Yes, stayed up most of the night reading this entire thread and all associated links...lol
Although birds are singing and dawn is approaching -- great time for prayer... sun
Peace
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Illiteracy as meant in Qur?an ?the ignorance of God? is a matter of degree and as a young teen my introduction to Islam was actually the very first word/verse revealed?
Salam bro
but Allah kept calling Mohammad Ummi at leats couple of time, would that mean Allah was calling him an ignorant of God?
how about this one
Allah has told us to follow the Nabi the Ummi
would that mean Allah was telling us to follow the prophet who is a God ignorant?
Cheers
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Salaam sister Samia,
Apologies for barging in but if someone can write something he/she can read/recite it without understanding it. You can write Persian if dictated to you so you can read/recite it even if you don't understand it. If you cannot read/recite something, it will be impossible to write it. You are mixing "understanding" with "reading" !
Thanks ,, for saving me the effort of phrasing
siki
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Salaam bro siki,
handshake i will make up, if you bring along eat a 16 oz jumbo pack of plain salted LAYS
Isn't that considered EXTORTION ? elektro
Also Lays chips (and most other brands) are cooked in vegetable oil which is not good for health because it contains a lot of toxic free radicals. Now I would not want to harm a friend !
http//www.hdlighthouse.org/treatment-care/care/hdltriad/diet/updates/1161hne.php
http//www.mercola.com/products/coconut_oil.htm
http//www.mnwelldir.org/docs/nutrition/coconut.htm
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Peace all,
Coming back to the topic of this thread
If AB's interpretation is right and The God talks about the Prophet not writing the Qur'aan by his hand in 2948 because otherwise the doubters would have had reason to doubt, then do you think that the doubters would have no reason to doubt if instead of writing the Qur'aan with his hand, the Prophet dictated to others and the scribes wrote it with their hands ?
In other words
If the Prophet writes the Qur'aan with his hand, then the doubters would have reason to doubt.
BUT
If the Prophet dictates the Qur'aan and others write it with their hands, then the doubters would not doubt.
So The God does not want the Prophet to write the Qur'aan with his hand, but does not have a problem with him dictating to others and they writing it down with their hands. The former would create a doubt that the Qur'aan is from The God, but the latter won't.
DOES THAT SOUND LOGICAL ???
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Peace all,
Thanks AB for taking the time to write a concise explanation. I think I understand now, atleast better than before what you're trying to say. )
Having looked at both arguments, it is my understanding that Muhammad could not and did not read or write any book (scripture or otherwise) before quran. However, after the revelation, he gained these skills. Not that this is my reasoning, it boggles the mind that a 'messenger' of God was not able to read or write the scripture revealed through him. The emphasis on the pen/writing and reading in quran is enough to convince me that a messenger of God would atleast have those basic skills, practice what you preach, so to speak.PEACE
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peace
lets look at the two options we have here
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Muhammad could read and write.
so the disbelievers will say he wrote it, as in, he made it all up. but that can't be since there's information in it that nobody at that time could've known, things that we discovered in 20th century. -
Muhammad could not read or write.
he told it to others and they wrote it down. but how could he be sure they're really writing what he's aying. simple. if they were adding or changing things God would've told Muhammad about it.
like in that surah where he told something to his wife and she told it to somebody and he told her that he knew about it and she asked him how does he know and he said that God told him.
plus if humans did write it there would be contradictions in it.
and since there are thing in the qur'an that no human could've known 14 centuries ago, it is a proof that it is a word from God.so even if he did write it, he didn't come up with it
and even if he didn't know how to write and had to tell it to other they couldn't have lied or added or left out things. -
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peace
and even if he didn't know how to write and had to tell it to other they couldn't have lied or added or left out things.
Not necessarily lie, but they could have made spelling mistakes in words specific to the quraan and written in both the familiar way and an unfamiliar way. He wouldn't have been able to know, or make the writers know the difference in spelling of the same word in different verses or contexts, such as "bismillaahi" in bismillahir-rahmaanir-rahim and bism rabbika and or the word "bas6a increase" which is written with a seen in 2247 and with a Sad in 769 in one manner.
I agree with the other points.
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Peace all,
A book could consist of a few written pages bound together, and then we can keep expanding the same book by adding more written pages to it, and the expanded book would still be a book. For example the current Bible consists of many "books" that were added to it at different periods, but the end result is still a book !
The Qur'aan was a written book even when it comprised of only a few written pages kept together containing a few verses in the beginning. Subsequently, as more verses were revealed, those verses were written on additional pages and added to the starting book, and thus the book grew in size until all the verses were revealed, at which time it was still a book. Thus it was a book at all those stages !
Salam Tanveer~
Good Point! handshake
Honor
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peace
Not necessarily lie, but they could have made spelling mistakes in words specific to the quraan and written in both the familiar way and an unfamiliar way. He wouldn't have been able to know, or make the writers know the difference in spelling of the same word in different verses or contexts, such as "bismillaahi" in bismillahir-rahmaanir-rahim and bism rabbika and or the word "bas6a increase" which is written with a seen in 2247 and with a Sad in 769 in one manner.
I agree with the other points.
do you thing God would allow spelling errors in the qur'an? don't you think He would've said something to Muhammad? same way He told him about the thing with his wife.
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Salam bro
but Allah kept calling Mohammad Ummi at leats couple of time, would that mean Allah was calling him an ignorant of God?
how about this one
Allah has told us to follow the Nabi the Ummi
would that mean Allah was telling us to follow the prophet who is a God ignorant?
Cheers
Peace Ahmed,
Yes expected that question to come up as to the different meanings and use of the term?
http//www.islamicity.com/ps/default.asp?inc=PhoneticSearch.asp
Following (6) reference(s) seem to be matching with the phonetics of your query "OMMIY"
Al-Baqara (The Cow) >
Al-Imran (The Family of Imran)>
Al-Ma'idah (The Table Spread) >
Al-A'raf (The Heights) >
Al-Jumu'ah (Friday) >
278 And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture.
7158 say "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth there is no god but He it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet, who believeth in Allah and His words follow him that (so) ye may be guided."
Different meanings when used in context as those illiterates or ?ignorant of God? while other places to follow the ?unlettered? Prophet?
Also the literal word ?book? doesn?t necessarily mean a hardcopy paper manual someone wrote with their hand, rather as the term to ?read? means to know and be conscious of ?a book? as in the verses below?
Iqra biismi rabbika allathee khalaqa
961 Read! in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created-Iqra kitabaka kafa binafsika alyawma AAalayka haseeban
1714 Read your book; your own self is sufficient as a reckoner against you this day.Peace
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Peace nerspi,
peace
do you thing God would allow spelling errors in the qur'an? don't you think He would've said something to Muhammad? same way He told him about the thing with his wife.Just so I undertsnd your point, God would keep pointing these mistakes, be they grammar or whatever, through the years... but keep muhammad illiterate? I don't know about you, but it makes more sense to me that he didn't know how to read and write before the revelation, and then he learnt. How hard is that? If any ordinary man from a village in Africa can learn to read and write at over the age of 40, I don't see why this messenger of God couldn't.
Peace.
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Peace,
It was also a well known historical fact that Muhammad was a successful merchant before his call as a messenger prophet. As a matter of necessity, he obviously knew how to count. During his time, the numeral system as we know it today was not in use. The numerals that we use today, known as the Arabic numeral system, were invented after Islam. Historically, letters were used to represent numbers before the numeral system was invented. This is true in all Semitic languages such as Arabic and Hebrew, and other languages as well. For example, the Roman numerals came from the Roman alphabets. Therefore, since Muhammad knew how to count numbers as a merchant, he should also know how to read and write a transaction. This is a reasonable enough argument.
Excerpt from http//19.org/index.php?id=17,29,0,0,1,0
Nadeem