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  4. no miracles?

no miracles?

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  • A Offline
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    Alen
    wrote on last edited by
    #187

    Salam.

    I agree with brother Arnold here.
    handshake

    Peace.

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      unknownuser
      wrote on last edited by
      #188

      Noah living 950 years seems unusual and perhaps misunderstood?

      WayastaAAjiloonaka bialAAathabi walan yukhlifa Allahu waAAdahu wainna yawman AAinda rabbika kaalfi sanatin mimma taAAuddoona

      2247 Yet they ask thee to hasten on the Punishment! But Allah will not fail in His Promise. Verily a Day in the sight of thy Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning.

      Walaqad arsalna noohan ila qawmihi falabitha feehim alfa sanatin illa khamseena AAaman faakhathahumu alttoofanu wahum thalimoona

      2914 We (once) sent Noah to his people, and he tarried among them a thousand years less fifty but the Deluge overwhelmed them while they (persisted in) sin.

      1,000 years (Day) ? 50 can denote a period of 50 years; think of illa (minus) when telling time as of right now to give an example?

      5 min to write this post from 255pm to 300pm or 300pm illa (minus) 5.

      ?We (once) sent Noah to his people, and he tarried among them a thousand years less fifty? an era (Day) illa khamseena or lasting 50 years.

      Hope that makes sense; for to live a thousand years is not considered the norm nor was Noah?s age mentioned as a sign as with the 300+ year sleepers in the cave ?

      Walatajidannahum ahrasa alnnasi AAala hayatin wamina allatheena ashrakoo yawaddu ahaduhum law yuAAammaru alfa sanatin wama huwa bimuzahzihihi mina alAAathabi an yuAAammara waAllahu baseerun bima yaAAmaloona

      296 Thou wilt indeed find them, of all people, most greedy of life,-even more than the idolaters Each one of them wishes He could be given a life of a thousand years But the grant of such life will not save him from (due) punishment. For Allah sees well all that they do.

      Peace

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        unknownuser
        wrote on last edited by
        #189

        Peace,

        couldn't the fact that this phenomena occurs "just in time" be miracle enough ?

        lk

        Hi

        Very good point

        Thanks

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          unknownuser
          wrote on last edited by
          #190

          Hello All

          Here is a comment by a member on my web site, who is a member here but I think he had enough of the non sense posted and repeated on a daily basis on this web site

          Brother Tha said

          the "problem" with that fella is that he thinks presenting shabbir ahmed's views in his own words somehow makes his claims infallible -- i ve talked with him a couple of times and i suggested that his views had remarkable similarity to the ahmediyyas, and at once he touted the shabbir ahmed card, as if shabbir ahmed is immune to having been inspired by the qadiyani interpretation!

          ...and it probably doesn't help that shabbir ahmed himself happens to be a wannabe -- if u compare his translation with that of parwez, u will realise that he is li'l more than a remorseless thief! he scrupulously avoids mentioning qadiyani, and, if i remember correctly, has claimed to be an admirer of abduh and afghani; the fact, however, is that he is inspired heavily by the interpretations of the self-proclaimed messenger from qadian!

          abduh tried hard to appease the non-muslim world (read west) by showing the quran as a modern text, and 1 such effort led him to explain djinns as microbes,

          ...mirza ahmed, on the other hand, had his own designs, and understood the word, amongst other things, as the negative side of the human psyche! where emotions did not "fit" the text, he would turn djinns into aliens (foreigners), and at yet another place he would make them peepz who are "hidden" (living in seclusion)! likewise, to explain some verses he made djinns "chiefs" or "influential humans" -- u can see how he constantly keeps manipulating the word in a desperate attempt to render a translation suitable to his design!

          ...both parwez and shabbir ahmed have adopted the same distortions, and the online wannabes are following suit (with an occasional wannabe adding to or subtracting from it) , and this speaks volumes for the originality of the generations of wannabes spawned by the efforts of mirza ahmed aka qadiyani!

          coming back to the 950 years thingy, u once again see the chain; shabbir ahmed is the bloke's inspiration

          shabbir ahmed And, indeed, We sent Noah to his nation, and his Message survived among his followers a thousand years less fifty. The flood overwhelmed the rejecters, for they used to violate human rights.

          ...and who inspired shabbir ahmed?

          parwez (However there is nothing strange in what they are saying. Consider the history of the tussle between good and evil, starting from the times long past. Firstly you will notice that) We sent forth Noah unto his people and his era lasted for a period of nine hundred and fifty years. (Then the period of Abraham started.)* (His people opposed him strongly and) The result was that the deluge overtook them; as indeed they were the 'Zalimeen'.

          ...and where did parwez get his idea from?

          check out mirza's ahmed commentary for the verse; he says 950 is not the span of noah's life, rather the span of his period of dispensation!

          take care, bud! (-

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            arnoldyasin
            wrote on last edited by
            #191

            It seems your very eloquent forum member has missed out Dr.Shabbir's book on Mirza Ahmad

            http//www.ourbeacon.com/hashish.pdf

            bravo

            And for the rest, he is dismissed ;D

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              unknownuser
              wrote on last edited by
              #192

              It seems your very eloquent forum member has missed out Dr.Shabbir's book on Mirza Ahmad

              http//www.ourbeacon.com/hashish.pdf

              bravo

              And for the rest, he is dismissed ;D

              I donlt know what your article means?, did Qadiani sell hashish to shabir?

              well both sound stoned to me

              are you stoned yourself?

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                arnoldyasin
                wrote on last edited by
                #193

                Mirza Ahmad used commentaries from other famous Quran commentators as Sir Syed Khan and others, he never really invented anything himself. So the whole argument is baseless from the start. Muhammed Abduh was a reformer, and not infallible, but he re-introduced the concept of the Quran explaining itself. It is never black and white, a person can never be completely right or completely wrong.

                Parwez mostly expounded from Muhammed Iqbal, same holds for Dr.Shabbir.

                So agreeing with other people's ideas makes him a wannabe?

                Then brother Tha can be called an AhmedBhagat wannabe with his use of 'bloke' and 'fella', or is AB a Tha wannabe, who can tell? ;D

                As usual, only personal attacks, not showing any need for real discussion or peacefull approach. Very Quranic behaviour...ahum

                And Rajah

                Ok ! Dear Arnold Mol that is the way, I hope we will enjoy our discussion

                happy You idolize them

                Again and again you show a display of some hidden arrogance. Is there any room in your people's head for a peacefull, non-personal discussion? Not that I really care, but I hope you can imagine the above quote shows a bit of hypocrisy in your posts?

                Peace to both of you

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                  unknownuser
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #194

                  Arnie, can i copy your comment to my web site so brother The replies to you?

                  for your non sesne about me, well fine that is your opinion but I have to dismiss it because you lost all creditablity whth your manipulations to the Quran words.

                  hey, did you see me manipulating the Quran words to suit my own desires?

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                    unknownuser
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #195
                    1. (sana) can also refer to 1 or 1 quarter.

                    Salam Hamsa

                    Where you got this info from please?

                    Sanah in the Quran means 12 months and for me they are the 12 Luner months

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                      savage_carrot
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #196

                      PEACE (greeting which is quite peaceful and bolded)

                      I donlt know what your article means?, did Qadiani sell hashish to shabir?

                      well both sound stoned to me

                      are you stoned yourself?

                      ) Is this how we contribute to an enlightened discussion? I hope the pun doesn't escape notice.

                      can i copy your comment to my web site so brother The replies to you?

                      If he's a member here, he can reply here? If he doesn't want to reply here then isn't it a bit complicated and odd to consistently post between two forums because of sensitivities? Reminds me of when parents say they aren't talking to each other and then tell their kids to communicate to the other.

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                        unknownuser
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #197

                        PEACE (greeting which is quite peaceful and bolded)

                        Is this how we contribute to an enlightened discussion? I hope the pun doesn't escape notice.

                        Salam (Greeting),

                        Greeting has nothing to do with being peaceful, so I don't know what you are talking about

                        Regarding the enlightened discussion, well I didn't see you doing any thing when he called my Bigot nor when he told me to shut the hell up, therefore it is been proven that you are unfit moderator and I have to dismiss you

                        If he's a member here, he can reply here? If he doesn't want to reply here then isn't it a bit complicated and odd to consistently post between two forums because of sensitivities? Reminds me of when parents say they aren't talking to each other and then tell their kids to communicate to the other.

                        http//free-islam.com/extraimages/dismissed.gif

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                          savage_carrot
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #198

                          Peace (yet another greeting, peaceful but not bolded)

                          Greeting has nothing to do with being peaceful, so I don't know what you are talking about

                          Thank you for telling me what it has nothing to do with. I was wondering about that and now it's clear.

                          Regarding the enlightened discussion, well I didn't see you doing any thing when he called my Bigot nor when he told me to shut the hell up, therefore it is been proven that you are unfit moderator and I have to dismiss you

                          Just because you didn't see it, doesn't mean something wasn't done . This however has nothing to do with the current discussion and completely irrelevant. Isn't surprising.

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                            unknownuser
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #199

                            Salam Hamsa

                            Where you got this info from please?

                            Sanah in the Quran means 12 months and for me they are the 12 Luner months

                            Salam AhmedBahgat

                            Just see the root of sanah in the lane's lexicon http//www.studyquran.co.uk

                            peace

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                              unknownuser
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #200

                              Salam AhmedBahgat

                              Just see the root of sanah in the lane's lexicon http//www.studyquran.co.uk

                              peace

                              Salam bro

                              I'm sorry bro, the root method is invalid and flawed, it can't be addmisable as an evidence, can you bring all the Quran evidences that used the word Sanah?

                              Salam

                              Thanks

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                                unknownuser
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #201

                                Salam bro

                                I'm sorry bro, the root method is invalid and flawed, it can't be addmisable as an evidence, can you bring all the Quran evidences that used the word Sanah?

                                Salam

                                Thanks

                                Salam bro,

                                I would love to learn the valid and correct method. If you already have explained it please forward the links.

                                Thanks

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                                  unknownuser
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #202

                                  Salam bro,

                                  I would love to learn the valid and correct method. If you already have explained it please forward the links.

                                  Thanks

                                  Hello bro

                                  There is no valid and correct method other than the words meaning within the context, what i proved before on this web site many times that the root method is flawed and can never be a valid method of knowing what the word mean withjing the context

                                  I also never heard in Arabic that Sanah may mean a season, like Summer Spring etc

                                  Your argument is flawed for a simple reason

                                  You can not deduct apples from mangos, you need both to be the same before you deduct one from another, that is why you have to come with lane allegation then convert the 950 by dividing it by 4. it is not like Allah is telling us numerical puzzles and we need lane to explain it to us, on the other hand, if you trust lane book that much, why don't you trust the hadith books? (both are man made)

                                  Also, there are many other prophets/non prophets who lived very long like Noah as recdorded in the Bible (I trust the bible more than the hadith and lane books btw) for example The oldest man recorded in the Torah is Methuselah, who lived 969 years. (Gen. 527)., this inclne that the early people lived far linger than the later people, a very logical requirment for the humans to spread on earth quickly as Allah planned for them to live and spread on it

                                  Actually, this argument of Noah's age regarding which that remained 950 years within Noah's people was refuted before, in here they just keep parroting their flawed arguments over and over again, exactly like the boys and girls on FFI web site, they dont want to give heed and learn, they don't want to be enlightened and follow the truth as the Quran exposes it, rather stuck in their ego not to admit that their understanding is flawed

                                  As for the opposing argument, QXP exposits 2914's reference to 950 years as the number of years Noah's message stayed with his people, not his actual age.

                                  QXP
                                  2914 And, indeed, We sent Noah to his nation, and his Message survived among his followers a thousand years less fifty. The flood overwhelmed the rejecters, for they used to violate human rights.

                                  Peace,
                                  Tay

                                  Peace mate

                                  Without trying to be argumentive, the above explanation by QXP can be proven flawed with ease, I understand well that the non Arabic speakers can be mislead easily when they read these sorts of translations, the fact of the matter stays that QXP is having a guess and this constitute a conjecture as well saying things about Allah that we don?t know, so here is QXP saying that Allah means the message of Noah that stayed 950 years not Noah himself, I looked again on the Arabic verse and clearly QXP got it wrong, let me bring the Arabic verse here

                                  (14)

                                  -> Honestly Tay, I can?t believe that some Muslims manipulate the Arabic words in such manner then use the English translation to mislead many fellow non Arabic speaking Muslims, the key word in the verse is ?Labatha?, ?remained?

                                  -> In Arabic, the verbs must follow the sex of the one who is performing the verb or whom the action is performed upon

                                  -> Noah in Arabic is masculine

                                  -> The Message in Arabic is feminine

                                  -> The verb ?Labatha? is masculine

                                  -> Applying the simple rule 1+1= 2 we can conclude that the masculine verb ?Labatha? is referring to the masculine name ?Noah?

                                  -> If the verb was about the message then IT MUST BE ?Fa Labathat?, there is an extra ?Ta? at the end that will be required for the feminine message

                                  -> The question remains why Allah refers to something ?The message? that He never mentioned in the verse?

                                  Thank you

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                                    unknownuser
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #203

                                    Peace (yet another greeting, peaceful but not bolded)
                                    Thank you for telling me what it has nothing to do with. I was wondering about that and now it's clear.

                                    Greeting

                                    I have to reply to this, firstly my argument stands correct, Greeting has nothing to do with being peaceful, for example, I can be damn angry with someone "like a car dealer who supllied the wrong part and I discovered this on Saturday while working on the car but I had to wait for Monday when they open again), see I'm damn angry and not peaceful at all because they screwed up and caused a delay to what I was planning to do

                                    On Monday (you know, just another manic Monday), i went to them first thing in morning with all the anger I have that was building for 48 hours waiting, I entered the shop and this is what i have to say to them

                                    Greeting

                                    You have screwed up because you supplied the bloody wrong part and I wasted my time on the weekend and now Ii have to wait for the next weekend to finish the car

                                    See

                                    Bye

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                                      unknownuser
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #204

                                      Salam AhmedBahgat

                                      There is no valid and correct method other than the words meaning within the context

                                      I am not Arabic speaking, from where should I learn the "words meaning"?

                                      Thanks for time and efforts.

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                                        unknownuser
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #205

                                        Hello all

                                        Here is an important point, remember what we are required to believe in?, well the previous scriptures are one thinig that we are required to believe inequally as we believe in the Quran with an exception, the exception was stated in the Quran numerous times, The Quran should qualify all previous scriptures, i.e. the corruption on'm can be detected using the Quran, here is the Bible telling us that Noah lived 950 years

                                        "All of Noah's days were 950 years, and he died."

                                        The above passage in this previous scripture HAS BEEN CONFIRMED BY THE QURAN, i.e. we have no other choice but to believe it

                                        Salam

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                                          unknownuser
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #206

                                          Salam AhmedBahgat

                                          I am not Arabic speaking, from where should I learn the "words meaning"?

                                          Thanks for time and efforts.

                                          Salam bro

                                          From the English translation of the Quran as a whole not on a word by word basis as your flawed root method does, then if in doubt you need to seek the help of a trusted Arabic speaker or just learn Arabc if you are not lazy enough

                                          Salam

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