Who built the kaaba that is in Mecca?

unknownuser

AOA

To the new breed of who claim that Kabba is not in Saudi and there is no such thing as Hajj to Mecca. Few simple questions.

(1) When did the concept that the kabba is in Mecca first arise? As it is such a huge part of the faith it must have some origins at a specific point in history. There must have been some documentation regards this!

(2) If Hajj is not in Mecca then when did this event to start to take place without even a tiny footnote in the history.

Any historical references? I have not been able to find the slightest evidence anywhere, except suddenly in the 21st century some bizzare half baked thories appearing on this site.

The Muslim history from Mohammed's time is reasonably documented, yet there is not the slightest trace of these monumental alleged corruptions recorded anywhere. Any historical evidence will be greatly appreciated.
regards

Hello

They provided none and they have none

Salam

unknownuser

Peace all,

Visible signs and proofs have come from the Lord and some still cannot see !

Perfect example of the following signs

6104 "Visible proofs have come to you from your Lord; so whoever can see, does so for himself, and whoever is blinded, does the same. I am not a watcher over you."

7186 Whoever God misguides, then there is none to guide him; and He leaves them blindly wandering in their transgression.

1043 And there are some of them who look at you; but can you guide the blind, if they do not see?

2246 Have they not roamed the land and had hearts with which to comprehend and ears with which to hear? No, it is not the sight which is blind, but it is the hearts that are in the chests that are blind.

2781 Nor can you guide the blind from their misguidance. You can only make those who believe in Our revelations hear you, for they have submitted.

3053 Nor can you enlighten the blind from their straying; but you can only make those who believe in Our revelations listen, for they have submitted.

4340 Can you make the deaf hear, or can you guide the blind and those who are far astray?

4723 These are the ones whom God has cursed and thus He made them deaf and blinded their sight.

This is what I have to say to such people

3936 Is God not enough for His servant? And they frighten you with others beside Him. And whomever God sends astray, then for him there will be no guide.

4066 Say "I have been forbidden from serving those whom you are calling upon besides God, since the proofs have come to me from my Lord. And I have been commanded to submit to the Lord of the worlds."

Raj-ah

Samia

I do not think you understood what he is asking about, because the reply does not provide the answer. He is quoting a verse that confirms no messenger was sent to the people of Muhammad before him; so what was Ibraheem doing there in Mecca, and whom was he inviting to the "house" of God.

Dear Samia; I understood what he was asking but before directly answering him on the verse i was trying to establish that it is only Mecca that fulfills all the Quranic Prophecies and rules laid down in Quran for Hajj, since you and he have not commented on that; therefore I take it for granted that Mecca is the place for HAjj and you agree with it.

The question which you have put up is actually on the basis, what I, Ahmed Bahgat and few others at this forum are trying to tell, "Without reading whole Quran and understanding it and just picking up verses and translating it by root method or word to word translation leads us away from Quran and word of Allah, despite bringing us nearer".

The verse says
Nor were you on the slope of the mount when We called. But it is mercy from your Lord, so that you may warn a people who received no warner before you, perhaps they may take heed.

Now go to the first verses of this Sura

We recite to you herein some history of Moses and Pharaoh, truthfully, for the benefit of people who believe.

The story of Moses and Pharoh is being explained to the Arabs/Meccans through Muhammad so they may get lessons from this story.
This is not only place where Allah has used this way of speech, for example in Surah Hood, in Surah Imran 44 and Surah Yousaf 102, similar type of wording is used please read them carefully

This is news from the past that we reveal to you. You had no knowledge about them - neither you, nor your people - before this. Therefore, be patient. The ultimate victory belongs to the righteous.

This is news from the past that we reveal to you. You were not there when they drew their raffles to select Mary's guardian. You were not present when they argued with one another.
This is news from the past that we reveal to you. You were not present when they made their unanimous decision (to throw Joseph in the well), as they conspired together

So what these verses tell us, Clearly these verses are trying to establish that Nor Muhammad niether the one who were listening were present at the time these events took place, so how could MUhammad know about these events in detail, that is BECUASE Allah had Contact with Muhammad and it is Allah who has shown the previous events to Muhammad as it were happening just before his eyes.

Now we can come back to the Vesre in discussion

Nor were you on the slope of the mount when We called. But it is mercy from your Lord, so that you may warn a people who received no warner before you, perhaps they may take heed.

Muhammad is telling the Story of MOSES, Moses was not assigned for these people directly, niether was anyone else between the times of Moses and Muhammad assigned as a warner to these people directly, Muhammad was the first one assigned as a Warner to these people who could tell them the story of Moses. Therefore Quran correctly says "So you can warn a people who received no warner before you" (to tell them the story of Moses).

First Abraham was not assigned directly for Meccans, second he was before Moses therefore he had no chance to warn Arabs regarding Moses story.
Abraham rebuilt/rennovated the Kaaba that is in Mecca as ordered by Allah, and was inviting the People of Allah to the house of Allah.
Between time of Ismail and Muhammad no prophet was assigned to these people who could tell the story of Moses to warn these people.

Now Samia you; Agentxxx or any one else if has any proof regarding Kaaba not been in Mecca and built by Abraham then you should bring it forward and shall not fell prey to Jewish or any other propoganda.
But before commenting please read the both posts of mine.

unknownuser

I understood what he was asking but before directly answering him on the verse i was trying to establish that it is only Mecca that fulfills all the Quranic Prophecies and rules laid down in Quran for Hajj, since you and he have not commented on that; therefore I take it for granted that Mecca is the place for HAjj and you agree with it.

Salam bro

This is obvious man, when we presenet a strong argument they never reply to it, they just skip it while they always request from us to reply to every argument they presenet, what a joke

Salam mate

unknownuser

Samia
Dear Samia; I understood what he was asking but before directly answering him on the verse i was trying to establish that it is only Mecca that fulfills all the Quranic Prophecies and rules laid down in Quran for Hajj, since you and he have not commented on that; therefore I take it for granted that Mecca is the place for HAjj and you agree with it.

The question which you have put up is actually on the basis, what I, Ahmed Bahgat and few others at this forum are trying to tell, "Without reading whole Quran and understanding it and just picking up verses and translating it by root method or word to word translation leads us away from Quran and word of Allah, despite bringing us nearer".

The verse says
Nor were you on the slope of the mount when We called. But it is mercy from your Lord, so that you may warn a people who received no warner before you, perhaps they may take heed.

Now go to the first verses of this Sura

We recite to you herein some history of Moses and Pharaoh, truthfully, for the benefit of people who believe.

The story of Moses and Pharoh is being explained to the Arabs/Meccans through Muhammad so they may get lessons from this story.
This is not only place where Allah has used this way of speech, for example in Surah Hood, in Surah Imran 44 and Surah Yousaf 102, similar type of wording is used please read them carefully

This is news from the past that we reveal to you. You had no knowledge about them - neither you, nor your people - before this. Therefore, be patient. The ultimate victory belongs to the righteous.

This is news from the past that we reveal to you. You were not there when they drew their raffles to select Mary's guardian. You were not present when they argued with one another.
This is news from the past that we reveal to you. You were not present when they made their unanimous decision (to throw Joseph in the well), as they conspired together

So what these verses tell us, Clearly these verses are trying to establish that Nor Muhammad niether the one who were listening were present at the time these events took place, so how could MUhammad know about these events in detail, that is BECUASE Allah had Contact with Muhammad and it is Allah who has shown the previous events to Muhammad as it were happening just before his eyes.

Now we can come back to the Vesre in discussion

Nor were you on the slope of the mount when We called. But it is mercy from your Lord, so that you may warn a people who received no warner before you, perhaps they may take heed.

Muhammad is telling the Story of MOSES, Moses was not assigned for these people directly, niether was anyone else between the times of Moses and Muhammad assigned as a warner to these people directly, Muhammad was the first one assigned as a Warner to these people who could tell them the story of Moses. Therefore Quran correctly says "So you can warn a people who received no warner before you" (to tell them the story of Moses).

First Abraham was not assigned directly for Meccans, second he was before Moses therefore he had no chance to warn Arabs regarding Moses story.
Abraham rebuilt/rennovated the Kaaba that is in Mecca as ordered by Allah, and was inviting the People of Allah to the house of Allah.
Between time of Ismail and Muhammad no prophet was assigned to these people who could tell the story of Moses to warn these people.

Now Samia you; Agentxxx or any one else if has any proof regarding Kaaba not been in Mecca and built by Abraham then you should bring it forward and shall not fell prey to Jewish or any other propoganda.
But before commenting please read the both posts of mine.

Also mate, Ibrahim was never caled Rasool in the Quran, he was only called Nabi as far as I remember, i.e. Ibrahim was never sent to any people with a message from God, He was only a Nabi, i.e. He was to tell the people (no specific people) around him about God and the JD, no laws to follow

Salam

stillearning

AOA all

Is it not well documented that there was a man called Mohd and he lived in Mecca just over 1400 yrs ago.
After him there were rulers/leaders of the muslim community the period of their rule is well documented.
Mohd also had children and grandchildren & their subsequent troubles with a particular ruler named Yazid.
It is also well documented where Mohd lived and fought his battles & as far as I am aware there has been no dispute regarding these.
Mohds life and his return to Mecca is historically documented by both Muslims and non Muslims alike.
The followers of Mohd fought and some gve their lives or becam outcasts in their own family to uphold Mohd's Message.
Yet here we are over 1400 yrs later told that all these people were suddenly duped so much that not a single sole recognised that pagans had suddenly gone back to pre Mohd days. Until Messiah Ayman and his followers in the 21st century realised that every Muslim had been completely duped and Kabba & Mecca had no connection and Mohd neve did Haj in Mecaa and it was all a conspiracy. Exactly who, where and when this conspiracy tooke place the EVIDENCE IS ZERO. But eh so what why let this minor matter get in the way of Messiah Aymans thoeries based on Quranic verses which have very little to do with the point he is making. Yet Messiah's followers are convinced that every interpertation of the Quran is wrong other than his.

LET ME ASK AGAIN WHEN DID CORRUPTION THAT KABBA IS IN MECCA TAKE PLACE
WHO INTRODUCED THIS MONUMENTAL EVENT
WHY NOT A SLIGHTEST OF MENTIONS IN EITHER MUSLIM OR NON MUSLIM HISTORY-I mean did every one just woke up one day and simply suffered from amnesia until now.

Based on the above presented evidences, the so called Kaaba in Mecca and the hajj incorporating the extra-qur'aanic pagan rituals, practices, and customs at this so called Kaaba could have originated only after the death of the Prophet. Exactly when is irrelevant.

The references you have given do not in any way prove your conclusion but if you want to make 2+2 into 8 then that is your progative.
regards
regards

unknownuser

Peace all,

The documentation being talked about in the above post is nothing but unverifiable hearsays.

Has someone asked the same questions about Jesus ? There is a ton of documentation claiming he was crucified and that he was the son of The God but does that make it true ?

There is ZERO evidence of existence of Mecca during the revelation of the qur'aan.

There is ZERO evidence of existence of the so called Kaaba in Mecca during revelation of the qur'aan.

Evidence of the qur'aan indicates that Muhammad was living near the ruins of the town of Lot and mentions olives and Mount Sinai in his vicinity. Olives are NOT found in the region of Mecca.

Orthographic evidence from the qur'aan indicates that it was originally descended in the North Arabian Lakhmid province region.

Evidence of the qur'aan, which I have already given in an earlier post, shows that the so called Kaaba in Mecca does not meet ANY criteria laid down in the qur'aan for "albayt alharaam", and thus CANNOT be the one mentioned by The God in the qur'aan.

Nabatean archeological evidence clearly shows that the deities of the pagan Arabs in pre-qur'aanic times were in the shape of imperfect cubes and they were often veiled in black cloth EXACTLY like the black cuboid idol in Mecca. There is also evidence about pagan rituals in pre-qur'aanic times such as spinning seven times around their cuboid idols and kissing black stones associated with their idols EXACTLY like the so called hajj rituals carried out in Mecca, which has ZERO basis from the qur'aan.

There is ZERO evidence of Abraham and his sons, Moses and Jesus ever visiting the so called Kaaba in Mecca, whereas they are supposed to know the qibla like they know their own children according to the qur'aan.

It is a very plausible scenario that the people reverted back to their pagan practices soon after the death of Muhammad and started calling them islamic, just like the followers of Moses and Jesus did after their death.

The evidence from the qur'aan should be enough for the believers and the forethoughtful, but I guess the blind can never see, unless The God wills otherwise.

unknownuser

AOA all

Is it not well documented that there was a man called Mohd and he lived in Mecca just over 1400 yrs ago.
After him there were rulers/leaders of the muslim community the period of their rule is well documented.
Mohd also had children and grandchildren & their subsequent troubles with a particular ruler named Yazid.
It is also well documented where Mohd lived and fought his battles & as far as I am aware there has been no dispute regarding these.
Mohds life and his return to Mecca is historically documented by both Muslims and non Muslims alike.
The followers of Mohd fought and some gve their lives or becam outcasts in their own family to uphold Mohd's Message.
Yet here we are over 1400 yrs later told that all these people were suddenly duped so much that not a single sole recognised that pagans had suddenly gone back to pre Mohd days. Until Messiah Ayman and his followers in the 21st century realised that every Muslim had been completely duped and Kabba & Mecca had no connection and Mohd neve did Haj in Mecaa and it was all a conspiracy. Exactly who, where and when this conspiracy tooke place the EVIDENCE IS ZERO. But eh so what why let this minor matter get in the way of Messiah Aymans thoeries based on Quranic verses which have very little to do with the point he is making. Yet Messiah's followers are convinced that every interpertation of the Quran is wrong other than his.

LET ME ASK AGAIN WHEN DID CORRUPTION THAT KABBA IS IN MECCA TAKE PLACE
WHO INTRODUCED THIS MONUMENTAL EVENT
WHY NOT A SLIGHTEST OF MENTIONS IN EITHER MUSLIM OR NON MUSLIM HISTORY-I mean did every one just woke up one day and simply suffered from amnesia until now.

The references you have given do not in any way prove your conclusion but if you want to make 2+2 into 8 then that is your progative.
regards
regards

Well said bro

Thanks

stillearning

AOA all

The documentation being talked about in the above post is nothing but unverifiable hearsays.

Since when?

Has someone asked the same questions about Jesus ? There is a ton of documentation claiming he was crucified and that he was the son of The God but does that make it true ?

I think you need to study your history again. There has alsways been a dispute as to Jesus being the Son of God or even God and the concept of him being son of God i.e the holy trinity concept was only agreed amongst the MAJORITY of christians about 300 years after Jesus's death. Where as the existance of Kabba in Mecaa and Hajj etc has never been even vaguely disputed until your particular brand of Islam came into being in the 21st century.
You analogy here is as illogical as the rest of your conclusions.

There is ZERO evidence of existence of Mecca during the revelation of the qur'aan.

There is ZERO evidence of existence of the so called Kaaba in Mecca during revelation of the qur'aan.

Evidence of the qur'aan indicates that Muhammad was living near the ruins of the town of Lot and mentions olives and Mount Sinai in his vicinity. Olives are NOT found in the region of Mecca.

LET ME REPEAT AGAIN AS YOU APPEAR NOT TO HAVE UNDERSTOOD WHAT I WROTE

LET ME ASK AGAIN WHEN DID CORRUPTION THAT KABBA IS IN MECCA TAKE PLACE
WHO INTRODUCED THIS MONUMENTAL EVENT
WHY NOT A SLIGHTEST OF MENTIONS IN EITHER MUSLIM OR NON MUSLIM HISTORY-I mean did every one just woke up one day and simply suffered from amnesia until now.

All I am asking is when did this huge corruption take place and did all muslims suffer from collective amnesia.

Orthographic evidence from the qur'aan indicates that it was originally descended in the North Arabian Lakhmid province region.

Evidence of the qur'aan, which I have already given in an earlier post, shows that the so called Kaaba in Mecca does not meet ANY criteria laid down in the qur'aan for "albayt alharaam", and thus CANNOT be the one mentioned by The God in the qur'aan.

Nabatean archeological evidence clearly shows that the deities of the pagan Arabs in pre-qur'aanic times were in the shape of imperfect cubes and they were often veiled in black cloth EXACTLY like the black cuboid idol in Mecca. There is also evidence about pagan rituals in pre-qur'aanic times such as spinning seven times around their cuboid idols and kissing black stones associated with their idols EXACTLY like the so called hajj rituals carried out in Mecca, which has ZERO basis from the qur'aan.

NOT EVIDENCE JUST YOUR COLOURFUL AND VERY IMAGINITIVE THEORIES.

There is ZERO evidence of Abraham and his sons, Moses and Jesus ever visiting the so called Kaaba in Mecca, whereas they are supposed to know the qibla like they know their own children according to the qur'aan.

Someone has has dealt with this point quite eloquently.

It is a very plausible scenario that the people reverted back to their pagan practices soon after the death of Muhammad and started calling them islamic, just like the followers of Moses and Jesus did after their death.

NO it is not at all plausible without a whimper from history or even every Muslim of the day accepting such monumental change just like that and leaving no trace in history. Even if Muslims were completely duped are you seriously suggesting a complete and collective amnesia amongst the entire human race Muslims and Non Muslims alike. You will see where additions took lace in Christianity or Judaism, despite relatively long time ago, controversy was stirred and the facts are still disputed today.
Whereas no such controversy regarding Kabba has ever existed.

The evidence from the qur'aan should be enough for the believers and the forethoughtful, but I guess the blind can never see, unless The God wills otherwise.

Cheap insults do not mean that you and your messiahs interpertation counts as evidence.
Regards

Samia

Salaam Raj-ah

Agentxxx's question was not my question. Mine is different; not yet responded to.

unknownuser

There has alsways been a dispute as to Jesus being the Son of God or even God and the concept of him being son of God i.e the holy trinity concept was only agreed amongst the MAJORITY of christians about 300 years after Jesus's death. Where as the existance of Kabba in Mecaa and Hajj etc has never been even vaguely disputed until your particular brand of Islam came into being in the 21st century.
You analogy here is as illogical as the rest of your conclusions.

NO it is not at all plausible without a whimper from history or even every Muslim of the day accepting such monumental change just like that and leaving no trace in history.

http//free-islam.com/extraimages/slamdunk1.gif

unknownuser

Peace all,

Where as the existance of Kabba in Mecaa and Hajj etc has never been even vaguely disputed until your particular brand of Islam came into being in the 21st century.
You analogy here is as illogical as the rest of your conclusions.

It is disputed by the clear signs from al-qur'aan which show that the black cuboid idol in Mecca does not meet ANY REQUIREMENTS of "albayt alharaam".

Oh ..... I forgot that for some people evidence of al-qur'aan has no value. They will remain blind to what The God says in al-qur'aan. brickwall

How can one say that it was never disputed. It is quite plausible that soon after the death of the prophet, the majority of the pagan hypocrites reverted to their pagan ways and crushed the minority of the true muslims and then destroyed all the evidences of any dispute and covered their tracks.

The so called hadeeth was also agreed upon 300 years after the death of Muhammad, just like what happened with Jesus. All the other hadeeth that was not agreed upon, which could possibly have had evidences of the dispute, was rejected by the crooks and destroyed.

unknownuser

It is quite plausible that soon after the death of the prophet, the majority of the pagan hypocrites reverted to their pagan ways and crushed the minority of the true muslims and then destroyed all the evidences of any dispute and covered their tracks.

The minority of the true muslims were defeated !!!!!!!

yeah

Let's look at this verse that exposes the ignorance in the above quote by a clear cut ignorant

He it is Who sent His Messenger with the guidance and the true religion, that He may make it overcome the religions, all of them, though the polytheists may be averse.

(9)

-> See, "that He may make it overcome the religions, all of them, though the polytheists may be averse.", however in the ignorant quote above we read that the polytheists have won and destroyed the deen of Allah

Let me have the best laugh for the day

rotfl rotfl rotfl

unknownuser

Peace all,

Indeed the the Prophet and his followers overcame the rejecters during his lifetime. After his death, it was a matter of which group of hypocrites and rejecters overcame which ones.

What else can one expect from THE WORST OF THE HYPOCRITES AND REJECTERS ? !!

997 The Nomads are the worst in rejection and hypocrisy, and more likely not to know the limits of what God has sent down upon His messenger. God is Knower, Wise.

6116 And if you obey the majority of those on Earth they will lead you away from God's path; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.

The current so called Kaaba is clear proof that THE GOLD MEDAL of rejection and hypocrisy has been won by you know who, just as The God told us !!

agentxxx

peace all,

Samia
Dear Samia; I understood what he was asking but before directly answering him on the verse i was trying to establish that it is only Mecca that fulfills all the Quranic Prophecies and rules laid down in Quran for Hajj, since you and he have not commented on that; therefore I take it for granted that Mecca is the place for HAjj and you agree with it.

The question which you have put up is actually on the basis, what I, Ahmed Bahgat and few others at this forum are trying to tell, "Without reading whole Quran and understanding it and just picking up verses and translating it by root method or word to word translation leads us away from Quran and word of Allah, despite bringing us nearer".

The verse says
Nor were you on the slope of the mount when We called. But it is mercy from your Lord, so that you may warn a people who received no warner before you, perhaps they may take heed.

Now go to the first verses of this Sura

We recite to you herein some history of Moses and Pharaoh, truthfully, for the benefit of people who believe.

*And certainly We gave Musa the Book after We had destroyed the former generations, clear arguments for men and a guidance and a mercy, that they may be mindful. 2843.

*And you were not on the western side when We revealed to Musa the commandment, and you were not among the witnesses; 2844.

But We raised up generations, then life became prolonged to them; and you were not dwelling among the people of Madyan, reciting to them Our communications, but We were the senders. 2845.

*And you were not on this side of the mountain when We called, but a mercy from your Lord THAT YOU MAY WARN A PEOPLE TO WHOM NO WARNER CAME BEFORE YOU, that they may be mindful. 2846.

*And were it not that there should befall them a disaster for what their hands have sent before, then they should say Our Lord! why didst Thou not send to us a messenger so that we should have followed Thy communications and been of the believers ! 2847.

But (now) when the truth has come to them from Us, they say WHY IS HE NOT GIVEN THE LIKE OF WHAT WAS GIVEN TO MUSA? What! did they not disbelieve in what Musa was given before? They say Two magicians backing up each other; and they say Surely we are unbelievers in all. 2848.

As you can see the YOU in 2846 and the HE in 2847 is not Moses but Mohammad.

And the words ?you were not there? is to indicate that the prophet was informed of the past events by Wahi.

raj-ah Therefore Quran correctly says "So you can warn a people who received no warner before you" (to tell them the story of Moses).

According to your interpretation Warning is just telling the story of Moses confused

Raj-ah-Abraham rebuilt/rennovated the Kaaba that is in Mecca as ordered by Allah, and was inviting the People of Allah to the house of Allah.

For what? did god just ordered him to rebuilt and then get out of there for good, never to return again.

Raj-ah-Now Samia you; Agentxxx or any one else if has any proof regarding Kaaba not been in Mecca and built by Abraham then you should bring it forward and shall not fell prey to Jewish or any other propoganda.

my argument is not that Kaaba is not in Mecca.......its simply who build it...if it was built by IIbrahim then the 2846 has yet to be defined with logic, also the reason for its abandoning by Ibrahim.

peace

stillearning

AOA all

Ahmed has already pointed the newest sects ability to ignore the points which they have no answer to anyway will try again.

Quote

Where as the existence of Kaaba in Mecca and Hajj etc has never been even vaguely disputed until your particular brand of Islam came into being in the 21st century.
You analogy here is as illogical as the rest of your conclusions.

It is disputed by the clear signs from al-qur'aan which show that the black cuboid idol in Mecca does not meet ANY REQUIREMENTS of "albayt alharaam".

Oh ..... I forgot that for some people evidence of al-qur'aan has no value. They will remain blind to what The God says in al-qur'aan.

You have strange concept of what constitutes an evidence. There has been a lengthy debate regarding the interpertation of the said Quranic verses with no clear agreement and you still insist that your brand of interpertation is solid evidence. Not much to debate unless we go around in circles again.

How can one say that it was never disputed. It is quite plausible that soon after the death of the prophet, the majority of the pagan hypocrites reverted to their pagan ways and crushed the minority of the true Muslims and then destroyed all the evidences of any dispute and covered their tracks.

WOW! At least no one accuse you of not having an imagination. I mean why did they not go the whole way and destroy any existing evidence of Islam. I mean if they were so strong to introduce such a huge corruption and wipe even the slightest trace.
So according to your logic there were no true Muslims left who objected to this ABSOLUTELY MONSTROSITY then why did they simply not finish the whole thing off. Astonishing really.
I am sure you will soon present this as solid evidence.

The so called hadeeth was also agreed upon 300 years after the death of Muhammad, just like what happened with Jesus. All the other hadeeth that was not agreed upon, which could possibly have had evidences of the dispute, was rejected by the crooks and destroyed
.

I swear I was awaiting for this illogical and ridiculous comparison. Even by your standards this is sinking to depths,
Even the most ardent of hadith followers accept...Bukharis time of collection, methods, inconsistencies etc and the History is very clear. Yet you want to equate this with monumental corruptions you claim which, I REPEAT AGAIN (getting repetitive but you keep ignoring), but zero evidence exists in any form of history, heresay or any other evidence you wish to provide.

SINCE YOU HAVE CHANGED TACK I WILL ADD TO MY PREVIOUS QUESTIONS.....SINCE ACCORDING TO YOU THE PAGANS WERE SO POWERFUL THEY CRUSHED ALL THE TRUE BELIEVERS THAT NOT ONE SINGLE WAS ABLE TO LEAVE ANY TRACE OF THIS HUGE CONSPIRACY THEN WHY DID PAGANS NOT COMPLETELY DESTROY ISLAM COMPLETELY AS THERE WAS NO ONE LEFT TO OPPOSE THEM.
regards

unknownuser

SINCE YOU HAVE CHANGED TACK I WILL ADD TO MY PREVIOUS QUESTIONS.....SINCE ACCORDING TO YOU THE PAGANS WERE SO POWERFUL THEY CRUSHED ALL THE TRUE BELIEVERS THAT NOT ONE SINGLE WAS ABLE TO LEAVE ANY TRACE OF THIS HUGE CONSPIRACY THEN WHY DID PAGANS NOT COMPLETELY DESTROY ISLAM COMPLETELY AS THERE WAS NO ONE LEFT TO OPPOSE THEM.

Salaam brother,

I do not know if there were left any true believers or not but why the enemies of Islam couldn't destroy it completely is because of God's true promise to save His message

159 Surely We have revealed the Reminder and We will most surely be its guardian.

unknownuser

Peace bro Hamsa,

You beat me to it !!! )

There is one more relevant sign

4142 No falsehood could enter it, presently or afterwards; a revelation from a Most Wise, Praiseworthy.

Believe me, if The God had not protected His message and allowed falsehood to enter it, our fate would have been no different than the followers of Jesus and Moses. At least we know with certainty what the truth is and what the falsehoods are because of the protected message, and can still follow with certainty the straight path and the true examples of the messengers.

unknownuser

Peace bro Hamsa,

You beat me to it !!! )

There is one more relevant sign

4142 No falsehood could enter it, presently or afterwards; a revelation from a Most Wise, Praiseworthy.

Believe me, if The God had not protected His message and allowed falsehood to enter it, our fate would have been no different than the followers of Jesus and Moses. At least we know with certainty what the truth is and what the falsehoods are because of the protected message, and can still follow with certainty the straight path and the true examples of the messengers.

Salaam bro Tanveer,

Thanks, and there are countless to reflect. Thanks to God He has saved me from one more Shirk and I pray for others as well.

Thanks )

unknownuser

Peace all,

Would someone please clarify the following

It seems to me that the following verses are about the people of prophet

2382 They say What! When we are dead and become dust and bones, shall we then be raised?
Only pagans didn't believe in life hereafter, as for I know christians and jews did believe in it.

2383 Certainly we are promised this, and (so were) our fathers aforetime; this is naught but stories of those of old.
qstn If no warner came to them before Prophet Mohammed then why did they say that our forefathers were also promised the same?

2384 Say Whose is the earth, and whoever is therein, if you know?

2385 They will say, "To Allah!" say "Yet will ye not receive admonition?"
qstn If no warner came to them before prophet Mohammed then how did they know everything belongs to Allah? See also Soorah az-Zukhruf (43) 9, Soorah az-Zukhruf (43) 87 and Soorah al-Ankaboot (29) 63.

Read 2385-91 as well.

366 That you may warn a people whose fathers were not warned, so they are heedless.

323 Or do they say He has forged it? Nay! it is the truth from your Lord that you may warn a people to whom no warner has come before you, that they may follow the right direction.

2846 And you were not on this side of the mountain when We called, but a mercy from your Lord THAT YOU MAY WARN A PEOPLE TO WHOM NO WARNER CAME BEFORE YOU, that they may be mindful. 2846.

Thanks