The Usury.
-
Does anyone here consider investing in the stock market 'usury'? I always feel that it is because you can earn a lot of money while doing nothing. Others argue that it is not a sin if you are actually working in the stock market because you are earning an income... not just sitting in the home doing nothing.
You are doing something, you are buying a share in a company, or a share of their profits. It's not usury, but if you invest, make sure that corporation does things nicely. They never do.
-
Your right, stock trading is very close to gamboling and can ruin a person financially. (The Stock Market Crash of 1929 is a perfect example) http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_market_crash From what I have talked with my father there is some sort of mathematics involved instead of gamboling which is dictaded entriely by chance.
-
Stock trading is only gambling if you aren't doing your research and making educated buys - at this point it becomes mere chance. Otherwise, there is no "gambling" whatsoever.
-
the banks are rich because of the money they hold in savings accounts(thats why sometimes u cant "withdrawal" and ull get your precious interrests after they did what they did to get more money,and give u a small piece as reward for your ignorance),they use that money to make more money with their other companies(scams) and charging you to get a loan makes them even richer......so if u have a house,get yourself a nice safe and keep the money there,dont let them hold a penny from you.
stocks.
putting money to get more money...is that not gambling then what is?peace
-
Salaam Alen,
Salam. peace
The Exalted God Most Wise, says in The Quran
2275 Those who consume usury do not rise except as one being influenced by the devil's touch. That is because they have said "Trade is the same as usury." While God has made trade lawful, and He has forbidden usury. Whoever has received understanding from His Lord and ceases, then he will be forgiven for what was before this and his case will be with God. But whoever returns, then they are the people of the Fire, in it they will abide eternally.
2278 O you who believe, be aware of God and give up what is left from usury, if you are truly believers.
3130 O you who believe, do not consume usury, compounding over and over; and revere God that you may succeed.
My question
If i take a loan at the local bank, let's say ?1.000 GBP and the bank tells me that i must return ?1.020 GBP, who is sinful here - me, the bank or both?
After all, i don't want to give them that extra ?20 but they are demanding it and they will not give me the loan in the first place unless i give them that extra ?20. Should i refuse, they will force me to give them that extra ?20. Whatever loan i take, whatever the amount, i will always have to pay back just a little more, right?Who is sinful here?
Peace.
Brother it seems clear from the above verses that who ever consumes usary is guilty of sin. In your case above it is the bank, and you are innocent.
However, usuary is understood to be interest componded over and over as the verse says above therefore not all interests are usuary, normaly high ones are!!
Those who charge usury are in the same position as those controlled by the devil's influence. This is because they claim that usury is the same as commerce. However, GOD permits commerce, and prohibits usury. Thus, whoever heeds this commandment from his Lord, and refrains from usury, he may keep his past earnings, and his judgment rests with GOD. As for those who persist in usury, they incur Hell, wherein they abide forever.
Another example of translation little more clearer who the sinful are the person who charges the usary..
Kind Regards
Ijaz
-
Stock trading is only gambling if you aren't doing your research and making educated buys - at this point it becomes mere chance. Otherwise, there is no "gambling" whatsoever.
This doesn't make sense to me. You're saying... if you do research and make an educated guess, then it's not gambling. I say that whenever you put up money to make more money... it's gambling. It's far away from putting up money to buy a shop and provide a product for people to buy.
In the stock market... the only purpose is to make money from money. Isn't it? With usury it's the same thing. Using money to make money.
-
Peace "dotty",
This doesn't make sense to me. You're saying... if you do research and make an educated guess, then it's not gambling. I say that whenever you put up money to make more money... it's gambling. It's far away from putting up money to buy a shop and provide a product for people to buy.
In the stock market... the only purpose is to make money from money. Isn't it? With usury it's the same thing. Using money to make money.
JK- Ok how abt renting out a car or an appartment or a diamond cutter in order to cut gems to someone then? Those two can be used as exchange mediums hence are money. So again your making money with money. This is nonsense. GOD Bless!
-
-
Peace again "dotty",
Regarding your claim "making an educated guess" being also gabling is nonsense because the whole life is a guess so to say. Nothing can be said with 100% certainty. Anyone who claims so has not understood the real world. GOD Bless!Peace jonny k,
Ok, I said educated guess and you said educated buy. Anyway, I'm just having a hard time seeing your point I guess. Using money to buy a product is different than using money to buy money.
I do understand that whenever you start a business you are using money to start it... then you hope to earn money from your business. It could be the same, but it just seems so different to me.
Maybe it's me jonny k... my husband has been trying to defend the stock exchange to me for years, but I have not been able to separate stocks from gambling.
-
Peace "Dotty",
Peace jonny k,
Ok, I said educated guess and you said educated buy. Anyway, I'm just having a hard time seeing your point I guess. Using money to buy a product is different than using money to buy money.
JK- Man Dotty wht do u think a stock is if not a product? Your buying tht product. Most importantly all prducts which are tradable in the market are technically money coz they can act as exahcnge mediums. GOD Bless!
-
Peace again "Dotty",
I do understand that whenever you start a business you are using money to start it... then you hope to earn money from your business. It could be the same, but it just seems so different to me.
JK- And this can actually be much more dangerous than trading certain stocks which you know well since there physical locations and expenses for them now involved for you as well where as stocks are all kept for you electronically.
Maybe it's me jonny k... my husband has been trying to defend the stock exchange to me for years, but I have not been able to separate stocks from gambling.
JK- Maybe now you can. GOD Bless!
-
Peace "asperin",
the banks are rich because of the money they hold in savings accounts(thats why sometimes u cant "withdrawal" and ull get your precious interrests after they did what they did to get more money,and give u a small piece as reward for your ignorance),they use that money to make more money with their other companies(scams) and charging you to get a loan makes them even richer......so if u have a house,get yourself a nice safe and keep the money there,dont let them hold a penny from you.
stocks.
putting money to get more money...is that not gambling then what is?
peaceJK- Thts right the banks work with your money. Some do this onestly others dishonestly. But genrealizing tht all banks who take or give interest are bad is wrong. The banks basically are taking your money as loan and hence your given interest too. Ofcourse they have to charge a higher interest than they give you otherwise they would be losing or not making any profit at all so that is just common sense. Infact they are doing all the work of advertising so ppl get agtracted to borrow money. If you can do this by yourself go ahead and do it, then you can charge the same interest as the banks or even more, UNTIL A CERTIN LIMIT SET BY THE GOVERNMENT(infact above tht its Riba), from the borrowers. besides this banks offer yu many other services inclsuind electronic trade and the easy transfer of your money from one place to another. GOD Bless!
-
This doesn't make sense to me. You're saying... if you do research and make an educated guess, then it's not gambling. I say that whenever you put up money to make more money... it's gambling. It's far away from putting up money to buy a shop and provide a product for people to buy.
In the stock market... the only purpose is to make money from money. Isn't it? With usury it's the same thing. Using money to make money.
No. Stock trading is simple, it's not usury in any way (though the company might be involved in it). All you are doing is buying a share in the ownership of the company - nothing more. Usually you get a share of the profits, but the thing is, the value only goes up with demand for that stock - when other people want a slice of the pie. I think Jonny_K put it nicely.
Usury on the other hand, instantly creates money - money that does not exist. If people can't keep up and work for it, then it all collapses. In other words, it just forces people to work even harder, and most of the time, that's not a good thing.
-
No. Stock trading is simple, it's not usury in any way (though the company might be involved in it). All you are doing is buying a share in the ownership of the company - nothing more. Usually you get a share of the profits, but the thing is, the value only goes up with demand for that stock - when other people want a slice of the pie. I think Jonny_K put it nicely.
Usury on the other hand, instantly creates money - money that does not exist. If people can't keep up and work for it, then it all collapses. In other words, it just forces people to work even harder, and most of the time, that's not a good thing.
Thanks OPF,
You and JK did help me a lot with this issue.
Peace-
-
Usury on the other hand, instantly creates money - money that does not exist. If people can't keep up and work for it, then it all collapses. In other words, it just forces people to work even harder, and most of the time, that's not a good thing.
JK- Wht do u mean by the "instant creation of money". Can you please give me an example? GOD Bless!
-
JK- Wht do u mean by the "instant creation of money". Can you please give me an example? GOD Bless!
When you say, take a mortgage out on a ?100,000 house, the overall repayment sum will be around ?250,000 after 25 years. Where does this 250k come from? Someone has to work their ass off to get it.
