The Usury.
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the banks are rich because of the money they hold in savings accounts(thats why sometimes u cant "withdrawal" and ull get your precious interrests after they did what they did to get more money,and give u a small piece as reward for your ignorance),they use that money to make more money with their other companies(scams) and charging you to get a loan makes them even richer......so if u have a house,get yourself a nice safe and keep the money there,dont let them hold a penny from you.
stocks.
putting money to get more money...is that not gambling then what is?peace
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Salaam Alen,
Salam. peace
The Exalted God Most Wise, says in The Quran
2275 Those who consume usury do not rise except as one being influenced by the devil's touch. That is because they have said "Trade is the same as usury." While God has made trade lawful, and He has forbidden usury. Whoever has received understanding from His Lord and ceases, then he will be forgiven for what was before this and his case will be with God. But whoever returns, then they are the people of the Fire, in it they will abide eternally.
2278 O you who believe, be aware of God and give up what is left from usury, if you are truly believers.
3130 O you who believe, do not consume usury, compounding over and over; and revere God that you may succeed.
My question
If i take a loan at the local bank, let's say ?1.000 GBP and the bank tells me that i must return ?1.020 GBP, who is sinful here - me, the bank or both?
After all, i don't want to give them that extra ?20 but they are demanding it and they will not give me the loan in the first place unless i give them that extra ?20. Should i refuse, they will force me to give them that extra ?20. Whatever loan i take, whatever the amount, i will always have to pay back just a little more, right?Who is sinful here?
Peace.
Brother it seems clear from the above verses that who ever consumes usary is guilty of sin. In your case above it is the bank, and you are innocent.
However, usuary is understood to be interest componded over and over as the verse says above therefore not all interests are usuary, normaly high ones are!!
Those who charge usury are in the same position as those controlled by the devil's influence. This is because they claim that usury is the same as commerce. However, GOD permits commerce, and prohibits usury. Thus, whoever heeds this commandment from his Lord, and refrains from usury, he may keep his past earnings, and his judgment rests with GOD. As for those who persist in usury, they incur Hell, wherein they abide forever.
Another example of translation little more clearer who the sinful are the person who charges the usary..
Kind Regards
Ijaz
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Stock trading is only gambling if you aren't doing your research and making educated buys - at this point it becomes mere chance. Otherwise, there is no "gambling" whatsoever.
This doesn't make sense to me. You're saying... if you do research and make an educated guess, then it's not gambling. I say that whenever you put up money to make more money... it's gambling. It's far away from putting up money to buy a shop and provide a product for people to buy.
In the stock market... the only purpose is to make money from money. Isn't it? With usury it's the same thing. Using money to make money.
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Peace "dotty",
This doesn't make sense to me. You're saying... if you do research and make an educated guess, then it's not gambling. I say that whenever you put up money to make more money... it's gambling. It's far away from putting up money to buy a shop and provide a product for people to buy.
In the stock market... the only purpose is to make money from money. Isn't it? With usury it's the same thing. Using money to make money.
JK- Ok how abt renting out a car or an appartment or a diamond cutter in order to cut gems to someone then? Those two can be used as exchange mediums hence are money. So again your making money with money. This is nonsense. GOD Bless!
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Peace again "dotty",
Regarding your claim "making an educated guess" being also gabling is nonsense because the whole life is a guess so to say. Nothing can be said with 100% certainty. Anyone who claims so has not understood the real world. GOD Bless!Peace jonny k,
Ok, I said educated guess and you said educated buy. Anyway, I'm just having a hard time seeing your point I guess. Using money to buy a product is different than using money to buy money.
I do understand that whenever you start a business you are using money to start it... then you hope to earn money from your business. It could be the same, but it just seems so different to me.
Maybe it's me jonny k... my husband has been trying to defend the stock exchange to me for years, but I have not been able to separate stocks from gambling.
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Peace "Dotty",
Peace jonny k,
Ok, I said educated guess and you said educated buy. Anyway, I'm just having a hard time seeing your point I guess. Using money to buy a product is different than using money to buy money.
JK- Man Dotty wht do u think a stock is if not a product? Your buying tht product. Most importantly all prducts which are tradable in the market are technically money coz they can act as exahcnge mediums. GOD Bless!
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Peace again "Dotty",
I do understand that whenever you start a business you are using money to start it... then you hope to earn money from your business. It could be the same, but it just seems so different to me.
JK- And this can actually be much more dangerous than trading certain stocks which you know well since there physical locations and expenses for them now involved for you as well where as stocks are all kept for you electronically.
Maybe it's me jonny k... my husband has been trying to defend the stock exchange to me for years, but I have not been able to separate stocks from gambling.
JK- Maybe now you can. GOD Bless!
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Peace "asperin",
the banks are rich because of the money they hold in savings accounts(thats why sometimes u cant "withdrawal" and ull get your precious interrests after they did what they did to get more money,and give u a small piece as reward for your ignorance),they use that money to make more money with their other companies(scams) and charging you to get a loan makes them even richer......so if u have a house,get yourself a nice safe and keep the money there,dont let them hold a penny from you.
stocks.
putting money to get more money...is that not gambling then what is?
peaceJK- Thts right the banks work with your money. Some do this onestly others dishonestly. But genrealizing tht all banks who take or give interest are bad is wrong. The banks basically are taking your money as loan and hence your given interest too. Ofcourse they have to charge a higher interest than they give you otherwise they would be losing or not making any profit at all so that is just common sense. Infact they are doing all the work of advertising so ppl get agtracted to borrow money. If you can do this by yourself go ahead and do it, then you can charge the same interest as the banks or even more, UNTIL A CERTIN LIMIT SET BY THE GOVERNMENT(infact above tht its Riba), from the borrowers. besides this banks offer yu many other services inclsuind electronic trade and the easy transfer of your money from one place to another. GOD Bless!
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This doesn't make sense to me. You're saying... if you do research and make an educated guess, then it's not gambling. I say that whenever you put up money to make more money... it's gambling. It's far away from putting up money to buy a shop and provide a product for people to buy.
In the stock market... the only purpose is to make money from money. Isn't it? With usury it's the same thing. Using money to make money.
No. Stock trading is simple, it's not usury in any way (though the company might be involved in it). All you are doing is buying a share in the ownership of the company - nothing more. Usually you get a share of the profits, but the thing is, the value only goes up with demand for that stock - when other people want a slice of the pie. I think Jonny_K put it nicely.
Usury on the other hand, instantly creates money - money that does not exist. If people can't keep up and work for it, then it all collapses. In other words, it just forces people to work even harder, and most of the time, that's not a good thing.
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No. Stock trading is simple, it's not usury in any way (though the company might be involved in it). All you are doing is buying a share in the ownership of the company - nothing more. Usually you get a share of the profits, but the thing is, the value only goes up with demand for that stock - when other people want a slice of the pie. I think Jonny_K put it nicely.
Usury on the other hand, instantly creates money - money that does not exist. If people can't keep up and work for it, then it all collapses. In other words, it just forces people to work even harder, and most of the time, that's not a good thing.
Thanks OPF,
You and JK did help me a lot with this issue.
Peace-
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Usury on the other hand, instantly creates money - money that does not exist. If people can't keep up and work for it, then it all collapses. In other words, it just forces people to work even harder, and most of the time, that's not a good thing.
JK- Wht do u mean by the "instant creation of money". Can you please give me an example? GOD Bless!
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JK- Wht do u mean by the "instant creation of money". Can you please give me an example? GOD Bless!
When you say, take a mortgage out on a ?100,000 house, the overall repayment sum will be around ?250,000 after 25 years. Where does this 250k come from? Someone has to work their ass off to get it.
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No. Stock trading is simple, it's not usury in any way (though the company might be involved in it). All you are doing is buying a share in the ownership of the company - nothing more. Usually you get a share of the profits, but the thing is, the value only goes up with demand for that stock - when other people want a slice of the pie. I think Jonny_K put it nicely.
Usury on the other hand, instantly creates money - money that does not exist. If people can't keep up and work for it, then it all collapses. In other words, it just forces people to work even harder, and most of the time, that's not a good thing.
Peace
I think that means if you cannot afford to pay the principal you will be indefinitely charged until you pay them back and the amount they charge is "created" because it wasn't part of the original sum.Al
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Peace
I think that means if you cannot afford to pay the principal you will be indefinitely charged until you pay them back and the amount they charge is "created" because it wasn't part of the original sum.Al
Yes, that's precisely what I meant. You put it better than I could rotfl
For an example as to why usury in this form is evil, look no further than the whole continent of Africa.
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Peace bro "OPF",
When you say, take a mortgage out on a ?100,000 house, the overall repayment sum will be around ?250,000 after 25 years. Where does this 250k come from? Someone has to work their ass off to get it.
JK- But the person knows this AFORETIME that if he doesnt return the money before that itd amount to that much. Its all precalculated. The formula for the amount to be returned is (1+i/100)^n times the mortgage, where i is the interest rate of the currency in %age and n the no of yrs. So the person can check everytime. If the person fails to give the complete payment at any time and decides that he wont be able to pay no more he can cancel it. Then the bank would calculate accordignly. Say he paid for 12 months, 1000 pound per month so thts 12000 he has paid. Now he took a loan of 100,000 and with that the house was bought plus his interest is due and its 5000 pounds. Now the person has the option 1) he can either sell the house himself or 2) let the bak sell it for him. In the latter acse the bank will just try to sell it at 100,000-(12000-5000)=93,000 GBP since then it has your 12000 which fulfills its requirement but youve paid for nothing. So option 1 would be wise and who knows you might sell it for 150,000. I would actually go for that. Be smart. Try real estate arbitrage. Go out and see how much people might be willing to pay for certain houses. Then if your sure make lowest possible option contracts with the owners of those houses so tht they cant sell it themselves once the other party is known and if the other party is willing to pay buy it through mortgage and sell it right off to the other who alreaady agreed to pay. This stragedy too can be done and smart businessmen do it. The loss would be merely the option paid. GOD Bless!
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Peace "aalmaako",
Peace
I think that means if you cannot afford to pay the principal you will be indefinitely charged until you pay them back and the amount they charge is "created" because it wasn't part of the original sum.Al
JK- Suppose a renter of an appartment has to pay 100 GBP monthly. He however doesnt pay for 3 consecutive months. Should the owner only charge 300 GBP after three months time when hes finally able/willing to pay? The answer is NO because the owner of the app cldve worked with the money had it been paid to him on time so he needs to be compensated for tht. The min he cldve made safely is put tht money in the bank and get interest of 5% per annum. Some banks offer monthly interest so thtd be "*100%" which wld be appx .407% per month. So for three months *100% wld have to be added which is appx 1.23% to the first 100 making tht 123 plus same formula with power 2 and then percentage of the 100 for the second month plus the 100 GBP for the 3rd one. Tht wld be more than just 300. GOD Bless!
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Jonny_K, we're assuming it's one of these modern loans where you have to pay extra for paying up early.
The problem is not that the amount payable is unknown because it isn't. The problem is that it makes a void of non-existant money, and someone has to work for that. If there is too much of that, nobody can keep up with the repayments and everything collapses - see Africa for an example. It makes economic slaves out of people, whether or not it is agreed to by both parties. The compounding interest is even worse. In certain situations, the original amount has long been paid, and all that remains is an endless supply of money for the lender in the form of interest. Is the lender earning that money in any way, shape or form? No. Is that money supposed to exist? No, because it's not likely that the borrower has the material goods needed - without that, money is only paper. In Africa, the principal has long been paid off but all those countries are still slaves to the world banks because of the interest.