2:230
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The key word/phrase is (it is no sin ...). Why would it be presumed that it would be sin to return to her newer husband if they were divorced?
But it would be sin to return to former husband before marrying a different man. With a new marriage, and a divorce, it is no more sin to get back together again.Peace sis Samia,
Yes, you have a valid point.
But junaha doesn't necessarily mean sin. does it? See for example 2158 and 2198 where it is used as /there is no wrong/blame/ etc.
Thanks With Respect,
Peace all, Hamsa -
But junaha doesn't necessarily mean sin. does it?
It does not. It means blame, as you say, or deviation (deviation from the right path/ good decision..). But I just used the word you used, albeit not accurate. The exact meaning was not essential for my comment
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Ok, lets see another verse
2236 It is no sin for you if ye divorce women while yet ye have not touched them, nor appointed unto them a portion. Provide for them, the rich according to his means, and the straitened according to his means, a fair provision. (This is) a bounden duty for those who do good.
The same word junaha is used in the above verse. So would it be a sin to divorce women after touching them and after appointing them a portion? ofcourse not! From this and the other occurances of junaha you can see that this word is used to say "this is totally fine" or "there is no problem in this". What do you think?
Peace all, Hamsa
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Salaam Hamza
I agree it does not mean sin (no sin). But it was not my translation, it was yours. I just borrowed it from your post and did not need to correct it, because that was not the point of my comment.
And you're right. It means (that's fine; OK; not far from good reasoning, no harm...)
If your last post was not directed to me, then I apologize for (jumping on the wagon) ;D
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Peace sis Samia,
That wasn't altogether my translation either ;D I hardly know Arabic, I just see the occurances of a word from TIM, use Lane and common sense and finally sisters like you and other brothers help me getting my understanding of The Book better and better, God bless all of you.
Am in hurry now and would try to post on the issue later.
till then,
Peace all, Hamsa. -
Peace anwar
in morocco, the new moudouwana stipulates ? period called "idda" which is usually of 4 lunar month and 10 days after divorce or death of husband, before the woman can contract a new marriage. This is the basic rule, but there are exceptions for the pregnant, those that have not consumed marraige etc.
Now i'm not sure about the three month of waiting before pronunciation of divorce. All i know is that when i divorced under the old law, it was done in a day but mainly because we were not in conflict.
lk
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Peace,
The Quran says 3 months before the official pronunciation of divorce, and that before that there should be intervention from a member of each's family. According to the Quran divorce is not to be immediate, it is a 3 month ordeal, and then the woman must wait 4 more monthly menstruations (quroo'un) before she can be engaged and married to anyone else.
Godbless,
Anwar -
According to the Quran divorce is not to be immediate, it is a 3 month ordeal, and then the woman must wait 4 more monthly menstruations (quroo'un) before she can be engaged and married to anyone else.
Why? What was the relevancy behind it as seen in prehistoric times and what is its relevancy as seen in today's perspectives? Can you please shed your thoughts in parallel, perhaps I'm missing something here?Peace!
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Why? What was the relevancy behind it as seen in prehistoric times and what is its relevancy as seen in today's perspectives? Can you please shed your thoughts in parallel, perhaps I'm missing something here?
Peace!
Who knows. We can make educated guesses.
For instance, over time women build up "semen dependancy" (I kid you not) http//psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20021002-000009.html
So possibly, this could be related to a natural cycle in the woman, considering it is not "four months" but "four menstrual periods".Also, it takes time to get over a divorce, does it not?
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OPF, lol, so semen now qualifies as a drug.... ok, i'll just keep away from it and stick to my cigarettes
Also, it takes time to get over a divorce, does it not?
Seriously, you're not implying that it takes only four month to get over a divorce ? Well, everything exists, but that for sure is not the common pattern.
Genteel, about the waiting period before and after. Before it's a possibility for the couple to change their minds. After i'd see it as an attempt to make sure that no baby's on the way. IMO, nowadays, a pregnancy test should be enough.
progod, i know about the procedure in quran, but i don't think it's applied this way here. No family members judicially involved as far as i know. But one can also see this part of the procedure as an incitement for the family, before they go to the judges. So it should not be in the official procedure.
salaams all, elke
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OPF, lol, so semen now qualifies as a drug.... ok, i'll just keep away from it and stick to my cigarettes
Seriously, you're not implying that it takes only four month to get over a divorce ? Well, everything exists, but that for sure is not the common pattern.Genteel, about the waiting period before and after. Before it's a possibility for the couple to change their minds. After i'd see it as an attempt to make sure that no baby's on the way. IMO, nowadays, a pregnancy test should be enough.
progod, i know about the procedure in quran, but i don't think it's applied this way here. No family members judicially involved as far as i know. But one can also see this part of the procedure as an incitement for the family, before they go to the judges. So it should not be in the official procedure.
salaams all, elke
Of course not I'm stabbing in the dark here.
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Genteel, about the waiting period before and after. Before it's a possibility for the couple to change their minds. After i'd see it as an attempt to make sure that no baby's on the way. IMO, nowadays, a pregnancy test should be enough.
Yes Elke, while I agree on the waiting period before the divorce perhaps for the better side of a possible reconciliation and the time to think it over, it was/is meaningless to wait yet another 4 mentrual cycles.Peace!
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Samia, please check verses 2226, 2228, 2231 & 2234. It may have been misunderstood.
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Peace all,
Maybe that 4 months is for widows!?
Majidah
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Samia, please check verses 2226, 2228, 2231 & 2234. It may have been misunderstood.
Verse 226 is addressing men/males, and is not about divorce, but about those who take an oath not to have intimate relations with their wives, then change their minds they have to wait for 4 months before they resuming this relationship.
228 is the one about divorced women to wait for three consecutive menstrual periods
231 and 234 nothing mentioned concerning any period, except for nursing a baby (2 years)
234 for widows 4 months and 10 days. -
Verse 226 is addressing men/males, and is not about divorce, but about those who take an oath not to have intimate relations with their wives, then change their minds they have to wait for 4 months before they resuming this relationship.
228 is the one about divorced women to wait for three consecutive menstrual periods
231 and 234 nothing mentioned concerning any period, except for nursing a baby (2 years)
234 for widows 4 months and 10 days.Thanks God i,m not a women ;D
peace
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Verse 226 is addressing men/males, and is not about divorce, but about those who take an oath not to have intimate relations with their wives, then change their minds they have to wait for 4 months before they resuming this relationship.
228 is the one about divorced women to wait for three consecutive menstrual periods
231 and 234 nothing mentioned concerning any period, except for nursing a baby (2 years)
234 for widows 4 months and 10 days.
Yes Samia, while all that may be true as per Quranic injunctions dating ancient times, the point is that much of it is controversial and does not apply verbatum in today's times. The waiting period before finalizing divorce seem to be supporting reconciliation rather than menstrual cycles to acknowledge pregancy or adultry. After the divorce has commenced, I see no point in waiting periods given the 4 months already and the 130 days waiting period for widows is simply nonsense (I believe its called iddatt). The relationship of husband/wife ends at divorce. Ofcourse, overtime they can re-marry. -
Peace,
For those who will leave their wives, waith 4 months and if they come back to their wives(taaboo(metaphorical return) or raja&oo(literal return)) then God is forgiving and full of mercy.
Lillatheena yuloona min nisaihim tarabbusu arbaAAati ashhurin fain faoo fainna Allaha ghafoorun raheemun(2226)
2227 But if they are resolved on divorce -behold, God is all-hearing, all-knowing.
Wain AAazamoo alttalaqa fainna Allaha sameeAAun AAaleemun
(2227)
Anway, this is definitely speaking about divorce and Samia is right it is when the man wants a divorce. There is nothing about swearing here and yu'loona means to desist from, to refran from, to neglect or to not do. The issue here is when the man does not want his wife anymore. In which case he should wait 4 months before he decides on getting divorced. Futhermore since later down we see
Al-Baqara (The Cow)
2228 And the divorced women shall undergo, without remarrying, a waiting-period of three monthly courses for it is not lawful for them to conceal what God may have created in their wombs, if they believe in God and the Last Day. And during this period their husbands are fully entitled to take them back, if they desire reconciliation; but, in accordance with justice, the rights of the wives are equal to the rights with regard to them, although men a degree of precedence over them.. And God is almighty, wise.
Waalmutallaqatu yatarabbasna bianfusihinna thalathata qurooin wala yahillu lahunna an yaktumna ma khalaqa Allahu fee arhamihinna in kunna yuminna biAllahi waalyawmi alakhiri wabuAAoolatuhunna ahaqqu biraddihinna fee thalika in aradoo islahan walahunna mithlu allathee AAalayhinna bialmaAAroofi walilrrijali AAalayhinna darajatun waAllahu AAazeezun hakeemun
(222
We can assume that with women it is the same deal. If they want to get divorced they need to wait 4 months first as well, before deciding on that. In which case the 3 menstrual periods also applies to them.
Let me say that pregnant women can spot (light menstruation) when they are normally supposed to have their periods so to wait 3 menstruations is a very good decision to make sure that there is no child on the way.
This Eelaa'un (verbal noun from yu'lee/pl. yu'loona) is a declared separation (he is leaving her or she is leaving him) and a serious consideration of divorce.
It also seems that we should favor the men in the case of divorce, however obviously issues like spousal abuse against the women will be determining factors, so the community pressure (I like this better based on the issue of shooraa and laa ikraaha feedeeni in the Quran) should favor the men when it comes to issues of divorce. Again, we still need to take the whole book into consideration and what it says about extremism in our dealings with each other, and that ill-feelings are not to govern our decision to be divorced per419 O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may Take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good. - English
Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo la yahillu lakum an tarithoo alnnisaa karhan wala taAAduloohunna litathhaboo bibaAAdi ma ataytumoohunna illa an yateena bifahishatin mubayyinatin waAAashiroohunna bialmaAAroofi fain karihtumoohunna faAAasa an takrahoo shayan wayajAAala Allahu feehi khayran katheeran
Maa ataytumoohunna can be anything that men give to women.
(419)
Godbless,
Anwar