Hitting One's Wife.
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You are WANTING for quran to say 'beat' just so you have reasons to disbelieve in it, me I don't care what 'daraba' means, i am interested in the truth alone.
I'm afraid you are completely wrong if you think I WANTED the Qur'an to say 'beat'.
This verse troubled me for a long time. The LAST thing I wanted was for it to mean "Hit" or "Beat".
I tried to explain it away in so many ways and I looked at so many Tafseers.
I was a Muslim for 48 years.
I only finally decided to reject Islam a few months ago.
Actually it was when I started coming across the pathetic and ridiculous explanations such as the ones I have seen here, that I really became sick of the whole dishonest process of trying to make the Qur'an fit what I wanted.
I realised I had to accept the Qur'an as it is - and either accept it is God's Divine word or not.
I finally decided it was not.
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I will leave you all in peace now.
I'm sorry to intrude on your little imaginary world - I mistakenly thought that the description of "Free Minds" and "Progressive Muslims" meant that you were actually open-minded freethinkers.
But you are just as dogmatic as the worst Wahhabi - only you believe in even more ridiculous nonsense.
Well good luck with all that.
Bye.
)
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fair enough, it does seem like you have a bias against quran, you continuously mention point of views from scholars who support your point of view. That's not the objective way to look at it. You have to look at all sides, yet you have already decided that people who adhere to the quran are 'deluded and loony' (again a bias)
I guess you haven't learned objectivity in 48 years
Actually it was when I started coming across the pathetic and ridiculous explanations such as the ones I have seen here, that I really became sick of the whole dishonest process of trying to make the Qur'an fit what I wanted.
Bias yet again, you are engaging in typical sunni attitude 'when i can't defeat them linguistically, i will defeat them through personal insults!'
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if that's leaving 'in peace' i am glad you won't be here...I am sorry but you lie to your face and ours. The best you came up with were insults. Good job; takes lots of guts to personally insult people in an online forum, great guts!
Funny in your initial post, i thought you were here not to insult anyone. I bought that actually.
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Association with a certain militant (figuratively) group who shall not be named (there are two) tends to bring such talk from otherwise normal and tolerant people.
Have fun, there is nothing either of us can do to change or guide. )
Can you just explain your perception of God before you leave or have you slammed the door already?
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Peace
Thanks for presenting that evidence. I wonder where they saw the link between the camel and the quran. Perhaps is there another part of Raghib's work where "daraba" is explained apart from the gerund explanation? If you find it, let me know.
In Lisanul 3arab, volume 1
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Translation The camel (daraba) the she camel had intercourse with it (naka7a).Sibawaih says Daraba (the she camel) dirab (participle) is anological to nika7 (linguistic patterns).
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cosmicdancer,
In your introduction, you seemed to show tolerance of other's "Islam" even though you did not class yourself "Muslim" anymore, yet on this thread you resort to name-calling and from what I can see, provide no reasons why you feel something is wrong.
This issue has been thoroughly discussed on this forum (in fact, can you cite any other forum on the internet that has discussed it more?), and for/against from many angles has been put forth. If you feel this is "deluded", "loony", "ridiculous" etc then that is entirely up to you.
Ironically it is you who is uncomfortable with the meaning of "iDRiBoohunna". Concluding that it meant "beat/hit" provided you with the justification (you wanted?) to reject al quran / god? (is this the real reason why you asked this "hypothetical" question?), but if your conclusion is challenged here, this potentially reopens a door for you. Is it a door you want to keep shut? If not, and you are one who sincerely seeks the truth, then the proof will simply be in reviewing the evidence for/against, rather than storming off.
What have you got to lose if your evidence is solid? The truth can withstand scrutiny can it not?
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cosmicdancer,
i dont know much about daraba and arabic, but here is another angle to look from
an author (be it men or be it God) cannot just say
1- if A fear dishonesty, A can beat B
2- if B fear abuse, B can leave A.Combining 1 and 2 If A fear dishonesty, B might leave A.
if husbands beat their wives then verse 4128 allows women to leave men if they fear abuse.
daraba might mean something else. it is worth investigating further.
don't hit (darab) the road yet.
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It didn't take too long did it. True colors always come out sooner or later. It took a little longer with some others, but this guy here, I think beat the record. You know who I'm talking about... the guys who come in to the forum, all nice and ready to discuss in a civil manner... it started with;
Thanks for the welcome.
Don't worry I am not here to attack anyone's faith.
I am not against Islam or Muslims - I love them.
aww... next thing you know (literally, 3 days later!)...
Sorry, I'm not playing silly games.
Believe what you want.
It doesn't change the fact you are a deluded loony fringe.
I have to admit I had no idea this site was a Qur'an only site.
While I despise the literalists like the Wahhabis - frankly, they have more integrity than Qur'an only... ers lol
Dang!... what happened to all the lovey dovey crap we were being fed just a few posts ago? rotfl
I was a Muslim for 48 years.
I only finally decided to reject Islam a few months ago.
Actually he had a better chance of 'becoming a muslim' a few months ago, than all of his "48 years" combined.
Ah well... next!
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I'm sorry.
I spoke unkindly. I'm not normally like that. Please forgive me.
I wish you all the best - truly.
Peace.
)
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Aww come on, spit it out )
A lot of people harbour inner hatred and deep resentment for muslims and islam and this is shown not while amongst muslims, but amongst their own newly adopted community of people (ahem). I believe the Quran speaks on a similar example. This is also true for christianity. So it's all "Please, thank you, Peace" amongst the muslims and "I can't stand those goat****ers" back at home, in the new comfort zone. May I remind everyone that the Quran does contain detailed examples of everybody's psyche and their honesty in matters, and particularly how they associate and treat others. Also please note the appeal to majority/tradition fallacy is exactly that, a fallacy. If 1200 years of Islamic scholarship is correct, please explain how 3000+ years of Jewish scholarship and 1800 years of Christian scholarship is incorrect. When one takes this path, fallacious logic becomes the norm, not the exception.
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A lot of people harbour inner hatred and deep resentment for muslims and islam and this is shown not while amongst muslims, but amongst their own newly adopted community of people (ahem). I believe the Quran speaks on a similar example. This is also true for christianity. So it's all "Please, thank you, Peace" amongst the muslims and "I can't stand those goat****ers" back at home, in the new comfort zone.
That is because Muslims display wide openly their intolerances against others and as well as among themselves all in the name of a "fake" god and unyielding to rationality by Quranic technicalities even when "reformed".May I remind everyone that the Quran does contain detailed examples of everybody's psyche and their honesty in matters, and particularly how they associate and treat others.
Is there anything new that the world today and prior to Islam's resurrection, does not know/never knew about fundamental principles and essential living standards that only Quran professed?Also please note the appeal to majority/tradition fallacy is exactly that, a fallacy.
Right! Majority of around 7 billion people today believe in an inconceivable, fathomless invisible fallacious being.If 1200 years of Islamic scholarship is correct, please explain how 3000+ years of Jewish scholarship and 1800 years of Christian scholarship is incorrect. When one takes this path, fallacious logic becomes the norm, not the exception.
Religious doctrines sets its standards by deception and denial and Islam tops it all by rigorous enforcements. -
That is because Muslims display wide openly their intolerances against others and as well as among themselves all in the name of a "fake" god and unyielding to rationality by Quranic technicalities even when "reformed".
Is there anything new that the world today and prior to Islam's resurrection, does not know/never knew about fundamental principles and essential living standards that only Quran professed?
Right! Majority of around 7 billion people today believe in an inconceivable, fathomless invisible fallacious being.
Religious doctrines sets its standards by deception and denial and Islam tops it all by rigorous enforcements.
That is because Muslims display wide openly their intolerances against others and as well as among themselves all in the name of a "fake" god and unyielding to rationality by Quranic technicalities even when "reformed".
Please show me this "majority hate" and especially where it is manifested outside of the Danish cartoons episodes and Iran and others.
Is there anything new that the world today and prior to Islam's resurrection, does not know/never knew about fundamental principles and essential living standards that only Quran professed?
In other words, "I agree, because I cannot refute this".
Right! Majority of around 7 billion people today believe in an inconceivable, fathomless invisible fallacious being.
Please differentiate between the act of appealing to the majority and the majority themselves.
Religious doctrines sets its standards by deception and denial and Islam tops it all by rigorous enforcements.
Judging by your perception of Islam, which none but a mentally delusional/high person can have after supposedly being open to all ideas for such a long period of time, it is not surprising you also retain this belief.
Surah 109 is fitting.
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I'm sorry.
I spoke unkindly. I'm not normally like that. Please forgive me.
I wish you all the best - truly.
Peace.
Peace to you.
Hopefully, you can stick around and we can all learn from each other, with open minds.
