To Obey the Prophet(PBUH) is obligatory to every Muslim
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You have no proof. If you want to use balagh= delivery then that word means delivery and make it understood not the delivery of the postman. Note that the Qur'an never uses words that are more like postman as "Tasleem" or "ilqaa" but used "balagh" which is deeper and has more than delivery. The Arabic word "balagha" means being able to "making something understood in the clearest way possible".
Secondly, if he explained it to his friends and his friends explained it to their friends and children and so forth, then the hadeeth is important because it reflects that knowledge of the early muslim community.
Thirdly, the "obey the messenger" was not limited to his life or death. The Qur'an does not give that limit. Just as the "obey God" was not limited to the time of life of the messenger. So, in both cases you are depending on reading texts to understand them. The texts of the hadeeth can help you understand the text of the Qur'an.
Take care
Hussein
Peace Hussein,
My use of "postman" was intended as a starting point(from where you had started), but yes, basically the messenger could be considered something like, well..a messenger (one who delivers a message through the clearest possible way), this case, Speech/ and then dictation of that speech for future generations.
Secondly, I agree, the prophet's actual direct explanations of the "messenger's speech" would be important to his followers, though dangerous and anti-quranic when passed on to a people not there to hear it from the prophet's mouth themselves. Fact is, if the prophet thought his explanations important for the future generations he would have wrote them down.
Thirdly, "obeying god and obeying the messenger" are one and the same. There is no time limit due to the fact that we have the "message" associated with the god and the messenger".
Peace
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Hussein (or anyone else), is the 2.5% zakaat mandatory?
And what is jizya according to you? Is there a minimum % requirement?
Peace!
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Salaam Warner,
KLM is spoken words, whether by humans or by God or others. Here are some examples of human speech 346, 11105 and more. Examples of animals speaking in words to humans 2782 Examples of God speech The ones mentioned earlier as well as 2174, 2118. All of them are spoken words.
QWL is communication spoken or unspoken in words or otherwise also by God or man or any other entity. Here is an example of unspoken QWL
191 Kaf. Ha. Ya. Ain. Sad.
192 A mention of the mercy of thy Lord unto His servant Zachariah.
193 When he cried unto his Lord a cry in secret,
194 Saying My Lord! Lo! the bones of me wax feeble and my head is shining with grey hair, and I have never been unblest in prayer to Thee, my Lord.
195 Lo! I fear my kinsfolk after me, since my wife is barren. Oh, give me from Thy presence a successor
Khafiyya which was translated by Picktal as secret is closer to hidden.
QALA he said is the word that was translated as Saying. Suggesting that he said something but it could have been spoken or unspoken and probably it was unspoken since it was hidden.
There are other examples like this as well. So, whenever you see KLM, then it is spoken words and when QWL, it could be spoken or unspoken form of communication.
The Qur'an was never pointed to in the Qur'an as QAWL. It was only referred to as Kalam= spoken words.
Take care and have a great day.
Hussein
Salaam Hussein
I did not want to take this subject forward after the above and the response from Ayman. I thought this is going around in circles.
But since there maybe a situation where I could have misunderstood you please be good enough to tell me how do you define ?saying? and ?speech?.
Thank you
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Salaam Warner,
But since there maybe a situation where I could have misunderstood you please be good enough to tell me how do you define ?saying? and ?speech?.
There is no point in discussing the english words when we are discussing the Arabic words of the Qur'an. However, I use "Saying" for QAWL and KALAM for speech. Mainly, I allow saying to be more than spoken words, while keep speech as spoken words.
Hussein
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The Rasool is indeed just a "postman", the prophet on the otherhand, was someone living 1400 or so years ago appointed by the god to lead his particular followers with the quran, In a couple of more words, the prophet explained it to his followers and he implemented it to the best of his human abillity at that time.
Important point( take note leo), the quran NEVER proscribed its followers to "Obey the prophet".
The rasool is not "just" a post man, this is ill mentality.
GOD and His angels help and support the prophet. O you who believe, you shall help and support him, and regard him as he should be regarded.
Shame on anyone who calls himself as a Muslim and disobeys the clear Sign of Allah.
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The rasool is not "just" a post man, this is ill mentality.
GOD and His angels help and support the prophet. O you who believe, you shall help and support him, and regard him as he should be regarded.
Shame on anyone who calls himself as a Muslim and disobeys the clear Sign of Allah.
Peace,
Z Before giving us your opinion, it would be wise for you to first learn the difference between a rasool and a prophet (nabi).
Peace
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Shame on anyone who calls himself as a Muslim and disobeys the clear Sign of Allah.
Indeed.
Which Hadith, other than this, do they uphold?
These are GOD's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than GOD and His revelations do they believe?
Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all the things GOD has created? Does it ever occur to them that the end of their life may be near? Which Hadith, beside this, do they believe in?
Turn unto Him alone then, and be mindful of Him, and establish the Divine System and be not of the Mushrikeen (idolaters) who ascribe ?partners? to Him. Those who split up their religion becoming sects, each sect delighting in whatever beliefs they have.
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Peace,
Z Before giving us your opinion, it would be wise for you to first learn the difference between a rasool and a prophet (nabi).
Peace
Would you please throw light on it so that all "illiterate " must know it.
Any one who is claiming to be "Rasool" or "Nabi" after the Holy Prophet PBUH is a "Kaafir" without any reservation.
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Peace Leoxyz,If you don't mind please provide proof via quran.
Thanks peace
So you think that Any Prophet and Rasool come.Any such concept is againt the quranic teaching;
A muslim is bound to believe
-whatever is revealed before the prophet PBUH
-What is revealed on the Prophet PBUH
Proof
24There is no such provision which states that muslims should believe "anyone" claiming to be Prophet after the Holy Prophet PBUH.
If there is such thing bring the proof from the Quran .Now it is your turn to bring the proof -
Thanks Tay. )
Leoxyz,
I'm still waiting for the proof for;
Any one who is claiming to be "Rasool" or "Nabi" after the Holy Prophet PBUH is a "Kaafir" without any reservation.
This is a very serious and powerful statement. If you can back it up with a verse, or two, I'd appreciate it. If not, please accept and admit that you have no proof of such. Simple.
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Peace Leo,
You didn't address the "...is a "Kaafir" without any reservation" part of your statement.
peace
Yes I believe any thought which is against the Quranic teaching is "Kufar".
You may believe otherway round that any thought which is against the quranic teaching is "Islam".
I cannot enforce anyone. -
Thanks Tay. )
Leoxyz,
I'm still waiting for the proof for; This is a very serious and powerful statement. If you can back it up with a verse, or two, I'd appreciate it. If not, please accept and admit that you have no proof of such. Simple.
Any thing which is against Quranic teaching is "Not islam= Kufar"
Either you have to prove revelation is still there after the Prophet PBUH or you have to admit that it Non -Quranic /Non islamic concept.
Revelation was = Before the Prophet PBUH
Revelation on the Holy Prophet PBUH
Afterwards =No revelation
Quran says
24
So anyone who believes that revelation is Possible after the Holy Prophet PBUH is not a muslim (Kaafir). -
Peace "leo",
I do not know why you people cannot understand a simple question.You always put cart before the horse.
Do you believe that Holy Prophet has the authority to explain "Kitaab".JK- A big fat NO! I know exactly that you sunnis/shia have misinterpreted the term "bayinna" which the Quran clearly uses as an antonymn of the term "katama(to hide)". Here an example
GOD took a covenant from those who received the scripture "You shall proclaim it(tubayyinahu) to the people, and never conceal(la taktumoohu) it." But they disregarded it behind their backs, and traded it away for a cheap price. What a miserable trade.
The Prophet was infact FORBIDDEN from explaining the Quran
Do not move your tongue to hasten it.
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Then it is We who will explain it.All other questions stem from this basic theme.
If you do not consider him PBUH as authority to explain the "BOOK" ,how can you discuss the authenticity of narrations.
It becomes a useless discussion .Because even if the authenticity of those narration is proved ,you will not accept it in the absence of His PBUH authority of explaining the book.You might have realized what is the value of
1Allah
2The HOLY Prophe PBUH
3The Holy Quran
OPF clearly mocked and attacked their integrity .
Look at this one what he said]Are you sure this is a language of a "Muslim"
Can any muslim even think about it??JK- Yes the Prophet was only an authority from GOD in regards to His Message i.e. the Quran and nothing else as is evident from 3337 as well. GOD Bless!