To Obey the Prophet(PBUH) is obligatory to every Muslim
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Thanks Tay. )
Leoxyz,
I'm still waiting for the proof for; This is a very serious and powerful statement. If you can back it up with a verse, or two, I'd appreciate it. If not, please accept and admit that you have no proof of such. Simple.
Any thing which is against Quranic teaching is "Not islam= Kufar"
Either you have to prove revelation is still there after the Prophet PBUH or you have to admit that it Non -Quranic /Non islamic concept.
Revelation was = Before the Prophet PBUH
Revelation on the Holy Prophet PBUH
Afterwards =No revelation
Quran says
24
So anyone who believes that revelation is Possible after the Holy Prophet PBUH is not a muslim (Kaafir). -
Peace "leo",
I do not know why you people cannot understand a simple question.You always put cart before the horse.
Do you believe that Holy Prophet has the authority to explain "Kitaab".JK- A big fat NO! I know exactly that you sunnis/shia have misinterpreted the term "bayinna" which the Quran clearly uses as an antonymn of the term "katama(to hide)". Here an example
GOD took a covenant from those who received the scripture "You shall proclaim it(tubayyinahu) to the people, and never conceal(la taktumoohu) it." But they disregarded it behind their backs, and traded it away for a cheap price. What a miserable trade.
The Prophet was infact FORBIDDEN from explaining the Quran
Do not move your tongue to hasten it.
...
Then it is We who will explain it.All other questions stem from this basic theme.
If you do not consider him PBUH as authority to explain the "BOOK" ,how can you discuss the authenticity of narrations.
It becomes a useless discussion .Because even if the authenticity of those narration is proved ,you will not accept it in the absence of His PBUH authority of explaining the book.You might have realized what is the value of
1Allah
2The HOLY Prophe PBUH
3The Holy Quran
OPF clearly mocked and attacked their integrity .
Look at this one what he said]Are you sure this is a language of a "Muslim"
Can any muslim even think about it??JK- Yes the Prophet was only an authority from GOD in regards to His Message i.e. the Quran and nothing else as is evident from 3337 as well. GOD Bless!
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Peace "leoxyz",
ANOTHER CAT IS OUT OF BAG
So Qadianis are also operational over here.All anti-islam stuff is accumulated to
-Attack Allah and Quran
-To attack authority of the Prophet PBUH
-To Tamper the quran
-To attack finality of prophethood of Muhammad PBUHJK- What did your arguments run out? Couldnt you find any more support from GOD's Word i.e. Quran so that you now have to resort to these kind of statments? And where did we ever attack Allah or the Quran? Your doing this by twisting meanings and getting fooled by fake hadith for whose authenticity theres ZERO evidence. The authrority of the Prophet is ofcourse no more since he died and is no longer amongst us and even during his lifetime as per 3337 he was not to be obeyed on daily life issues but only those things he brought as a messenger which was not 24/7 of his speech. That which was is in the Quran. We do not tamper with the Quran. The Quran is not a book between two covers as sunni/shia assert. It is a mathematically coded book and ive discussed this many times over. Last but not least we never disputed the finality of Muhammad's prophethood BUT that of his final MESSENGERSHIP. Why does the Quran in the same verse call him a messenger of GOD but then only calls him final prophet but according to you sunnis forgets to mention him as the final messenger? GOD Bless!
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Peace "leo",
Translate the Aya which I put it again
24No revelation after the Holy Prophet(PBUH).Anyone who believes contrary to it does not believe in Quran ---------------> Kaafir
If you have proof bring forward.JK- Do you dare to claim that the "ka(you)" in "ilaika" referes uniquely to Muhammad? You gotta rid yourself of this sunni/shia bias. It can equally refer to any messenger and that which was revealed before him. Remeber a rasool will not come to bring a new divine law or scripture which is why we accept that Muhammad is the last Nabi i.e. bringer of new news but not the last messenger i.e. one who tranfers the message i.e. existing or new, to other humans through various methods inspired by GOD like code-19 fror example in RKs case. GOD Bless!
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It's so difficult to admit that your statement has no basis whatsoever?
Naturally who do not understand Quran ,how can they grasp this simple concept
Quran is the "Guidance" for Muttaqin.
22Those who do not want to get guidance ,Quran clearly indicates
26
(26) As for those who have rejected *9 (these things), it is all the same to them whether you warn them or do not warn them they are not going to believe.
.27
(27) Allah has sealed up their hearts and ears and a covering has fallen over their eyes, *10 and they have incurred the severest punishment.So no surprise for me.
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The Prophet was infact FORBIDDEN from explaining the Quran
Do not move your tongue to hasten it.
...
Then it is We who will explain it.JK- Yes the Prophet was only an authority from GOD in regards to His Message i.e. the Quran and nothing else as is evident from 3337 as well. GOD Bless!
JK, why is the "We" capitalized in 7519? It was no other than Muhammad himself who said it. I see no logic of an "almighty god" to choose one person just to deliver 'His' message, threatening others not to move their tongues and championing that 'He' (which becomes We) will explain it to the entire world. This "god" displays weakness indeed. -
Peace Zein, Leo,
Zein, You're welcome.
Leo, you stated
I believe any thought which is against the Quranic teaching is "Kufar".
Thanks for your definition.
However, according to the qur'an, a "kafir" is one who REJECTS the truth.
219 like a cloud from the sky, in it is darkness and thunder and lightning. They place their fingers in their ears from the lightning strikes out of fear of death; and God is aware of the rejecters.
223-24 And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to Our servant, then bring a chapter like this, and call upon your witnesses other than God if you are truthful. And if you cannot do this; and you will not be able to do this; then beware the Fire whose fuel is people and stones, it has been prepared for the rejecters.
399-100 Say "O people of the Scripture, why do you repel from the path of God those who believe? You wish to twist it while you were witness. And God is not unaware of what you do." O you who believe, if you obey a group of those who received the Scripture they will turn you after your belief into rejecters!
In short, kafiroon are deceitful, lying, people who see the truth yet choose to still reject it. They are not people who disagree with your interpretations. Unless you know a person's true intentions, or unless they've admittedly rejected the truth, then you have no business calling anyone a kafir.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace "genteel",
JK, why is the "We" capitalized in 7519? It was no other than Muhammad himself who said it. I see no logic of an "almighty god" to choose one person just to deliver 'His' message, threatening others not to move their tongues and championing that 'He' (which becomes We) will explain it to the entire world. This "god" displays weakness indeed.
JK- Yes your right there the "we" does not refer only to GOD but GOD and His messengerS. This means the Quran would be explained again and again by inspired people for every day and age. This is a better explanation indeed. Also the "we" clould refer to GOD and His forces of nature(malaaika) which help explain the Quran. GOD Bless!
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Peace Zein, Leo,
In short, kafiroon are deceitful, lying, people who see the truth yet choose to still reject it. They are not people who disagree with your interpretations. Unless you know a person's true intentions, or unless they've admittedly rejected the truth, then you have no business calling anyone a kafir.
Peace,
TayDear
I 100% agree that agreeing/disagreeing with my interpretation means nothing at all.
I have talked about Quranic teachings.This is the reason you can interpret anyway you like.
You may think that
-revelation is possible
-Prophets can still come
it will be your interpretation and who can stop you. ,I never enforce anyone to accept my point of view.
On this forum People have been mocking the Holy Prophet PBUH ,proving "Face/Foot" of God ,Tampering the Quran.Could anybody stop them ?? No rather all moderators have been providing tacit support.
My Point of view is very clear
Anyone who does not accept the Quranic teaching as final authority is "Kaafir" (noteI am not talking about my interpretations)
Do you agree with it?? -
Peace Leo,
Anyone who does not accept the Quranic teaching as final authority is "Kaafir" (noteI am not talking about my interpretations)
Do you agree with it??No, and neither does the qur'an.
There is a difference between "Not Accepting" and "Rejecting" in the context of the quran. 569 tells us that the jews and christians and the sabeans who believe in God, the last day, and do good woroks have nothing to fear - nor will grief ever touch them. None of those groups accept the qur'an. Yet God does not call them kafiroon. Further yet, throughout the qur'an, it's clear that rejecters are hell-bound. You can't have it both ways. A rejecter (kafir) is one who knows the truth yet turns away. That's it.Peace,
Tay -
JK- Yes your right there the "we" does not refer only to GOD but GOD and His messengerS. This means the Quran would be explained again and again by inspired people for every day and age. This is a better explanation indeed. Also the "we" clould refer to GOD and His forces of nature(malaaika) which help explain the Quran. GOD Bless!
Hmmm, I see, JK. So then the "We" refering to God and His messenger (according to you) becomes a better explanation when they both band together from hastening to move the tongues of all others and that they both (God and messenger) will EXPLAIN them later what it is all about. But then this very God also warns the messenger from explaining anything and only to DELIVER, as per some believers though most disagree. Perhaps, in your better explanation, this God seems even weaker than I originally thought.Peace!
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Peace Leo,
No, and neither does the qur'an.
There is a difference between "Not Accepting" and "Rejecting" in the context of the quran. 569 tells us that the jews and christians and the sabeans who believe in God, the last day, and do good woroks have nothing to fear - nor will grief ever touch them. None of those groups accept the qur'an. Yet God does not call them kafiroon. Further yet, throughout the qur'an, it's clear that rejecters are hell-bound. You can't have it both ways. A rejecter (kafir) is one who knows the truth yet turns away. That's it.Peace,
TayAs far as I know Quran has talked about three Groups
1Muslims
2Kaafirs
3MunafiqineIn which group you are going to put Jews ?
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Naturally who do not understand Quran ,how can they grasp this simple concept
Quran is the "Guidance" for Muttaqin.
22Those who do not want to get guidance ,Quran clearly indicates
26
(26) As for those who have rejected *9 (these things), it is all the same to them whether you warn them or do not warn them they are not going to believe.
.27
(27) Allah has sealed up their hearts and ears and a covering has fallen over their eyes, *10 and they have incurred the severest punishment.So no surprise for me.
Peace dear brother Leoxyz, please excuse me - I have NO offence to you. I really respect your efforts and care for us, like many friends. relatives and people who love & care for us.
Those verses will be no surprise to the people here too, it depends on who do you interpret as "Muttaqin", "those", "their".
The people here also want to warn you that
(You can see the references all over this site and forum.)
Messenger's duty is only to deliver the message, the Quran is complete fully-detailed, what the Quran says about the "hadith", the messenger and the prophet is not the same (otherwise 661 would conflict with 6940-46, why didn't God cut his "life-line", then?), etc.Are we going to say these verses are not true or half truth?
You may want to post other verses then to conflict with the verses that relate to these issues, so the Quran HAS many contradictions?
From my observation, many hadith-defenders come here to prove
- The Quran is NOT complete/enough/fully-detailed. (Contradicts to verses in the "(1)" part of http//www.free-minds.org/women/scarf.htm)
- The Messenger's duty is NOT only to clearly deliver the message. (Contradicts with 592 ,681-82, 2918, 6412, 2454)
- You MUST believe/use other hadith than the Quran. (Contradicts with 7750, 7185, 316, 456, 3923, 5234, 6844)
- You can't find "this and that" in the Quran, but you can find it in the Hadith books. (Yes, 6837-39)
"Do they not consider the Koran with care. If it had been from anyone other than God, it would contain many (Kathirun) contradictions (Ikhtelaafun-)." Koran 482 (http//www.free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/koran.htm)
The current traditional understandings of "islam" is so contradicting that you see many anti-islam sites making long lists of Quranic contradictions. For example, http//www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/
After sincere research, and verification, many here see that this Message (Quran) is from God but the contradictions are rather from the humans' understanding of it.
Yes, surely people here also don't agree on all things the same way, we're humans also, but it is much less than adding a huge list of contradictions from the traditional uderstandings and hadith books. By the way, there are many people who clearly understand the answers to favorite questions like salat,qibla,hajj,zakat, etc. in a no-contradiction "Quran is complete, fully detailed" way.
Let's ask God to guide & do out best.
Please consider the "warning" from us here too, we care for you, otherwise many here wouldn't have spent their time, money and effort to start a site and put so much content in it. Thanks also for your compassion, care, time & effort. I'm not posting here to debate you. I'm just posting to give my compassion and care also. Thanks.
God please guide & fogive all of us. We're trying our best to please/praise you - our Lord.
May God Guide.
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Salaam Zidane,
Messenger's duty is only to deliver the message, the Quran is complete fully-detailed, what the Quran says about the "hadith", the messenger and the prophet is not the same (otherwise 661 would conflict with 6940-46, why didn't God cut his "life-line", then?),
God did not cut his lifeline because the prophet did not lie upon God. Not because the prophet did not say anything outside Qur'an or act anything outside Qur'an as in pray in public and do Sawm and Zakat. All fall in the definition of hadeeth. If you believe that the prophet was mum unless he received Qur'an, then you must believe in an unbelievable thing.
Salaam and have a good evening.
Hussein
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Salaam Zidane,
God did not cut his lifeline because the prophet did not lie upon God. Not because the prophet did not say anything outside Qur'an or act anything outside Qur'an as in pray in public and do Sawm and Zakat. All fall in the definition of hadeeth. If you believe that the prophet was mum unless he received Qur'an, then you must believe in an unbelievable thing.
Salaam and have a good evening.
Hussein
Dear Brother Hussein, you probably missed my point.
That part of my post was to say that the Messenger and prophet is not the same "state" of Muhammad, that's why God didn't cut his life-line.
That's why, if the prophet and the messenger was the same then, as you said, he can't speak unless he receives the quran. That's believing in an unbelievable thing.
The Messenger is when he's delivering the Message, that's why God said "O you prophet" (yes, you can check the arabic) here in 661, not "O you Messenger". This clearly distinguishes the difference between prophet and messenger. This comes into harmony why God repeated many times to Obey God and Obey the Messenger Obeying God and obeying the Messenger is the same thing . We can only know what God says from the Messenger and the Messenger can only speak what God says (, ).
These issues are already covered many times in the many resources & articles of this site. Please read them, it's tiring for people to come and post replies to the same issues again and again. Please help take some effort in reading them brother.
And, Yes, as Joe posted above, that's very clear to "sincerely" see. We can't just twist things biasdly to support the use of hadeeth. You're again implying to the reader that the Quran is NOT complete, NOT fully detailed and we must use other hadeeth than the Quran (see 7185).
Have a nice evening too.
May God Guide.
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Peace dear brother Leoxyz, please excuse me - I have NO offence to you. I really respect your efforts and care for us, like many friends. relatives and people who love & care for us.
Those verses will be no surprise to the people here too, it depends on who do you interpret as "Muttaqin", "those", "their".
The people here also want to warn you that
(You can see the references all over this site and forum.)
Messenger's duty is only to deliver the message, the Quran is complete fully-detailed, what the Quran says about the "hadith", the messenger and the prophet is not the same (otherwise 661 would conflict with 6940-46, why didn't God cut his "life-line", then?), etc.Are we going to say these verses are not true or half truth?
You may want to post other verses then to conflict with the verses that relate to these issues, so the Quran HAS many contradictions?
From my observation, many hadith-defenders come here to prove
- The Quran is NOT complete/enough/fully-detailed. (Contradicts to verses in the "(1)" part of http//www.free-minds.org/women/scarf.htm)
- The Messenger's duty is NOT only to clearly deliver the message. (Contradicts with 592 ,681-82, 2918, 6412, 2454)
- You MUST believe/use other hadith than the Quran. (Contradicts with 7750, 7185, 316, 456, 3923, 5234, 6844)
- You can't find "this and that" in the Quran, but you can find it in the Hadith books. (Yes, 6837-39)
"Do they not consider the Koran with care. If it had been from anyone other than God, it would contain many (Kathirun) contradictions (Ikhtelaafun-)." Koran 482 (http//www.free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/koran.htm)
The current traditional understandings of "islam" is so contradicting that you see many anti-islam sites making long lists of Quranic contradictions. For example, http//www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/
After sincere research, and verification, many here see that this Message (Quran) is from God but the contradictions are rather from the humans' understanding of it.
Yes, surely people here also don't agree on all things the same way, we're humans also, but it is much less than adding a huge list of contradictions from the traditional uderstandings and hadith books. By the way, there are many people who clearly understand the answers to favorite questions like salat,qibla,hajj,zakat, etc. in a no-contradiction "Quran is complete, fully detailed" way.
Let's ask God to guide & do out best.
Please consider the "warning" from us here too, we care for you, otherwise many here wouldn't have spent their time, money and effort to start a site and put so much content in it. Thanks also for your compassion, care, time & effort. I'm not posting here to debate you. I'm just posting to give my compassion and care also. Thanks.
God please guide & fogive all of us. We're trying our best to please/praise you - our Lord.
May God Guide.
Dear
I have shown my opinion and still hold that anyone who denies ,rejects a single word or teaching of the Holy Quran is not a muslim.He is a KAAFIR.
As far as interpretaion is concerned the Holy Quran is MUFASSIL and COMPLETE and well EXPLAINED,so NO INTERPRETATION is needed.(AS PER QURANIST CLAIM)
I am a simple muslim with a limited knowledge.You can think it your way.
People are at liberty to
-Tamper Quran
-Tamper the teachings of Holy Prophet PUBH
-Make prophets(Kazzaab) after the Holy Prophet (PBUH)
The Holy Quran says(2256) There is no compulsion and coercion in regard to religion. The right thing has been made distinct from the wrong thing
Everything is crystle clear.
None of us is going to be held responsible for others' deeds.Neither you for my actions ,nor I for your actions.
Have I compelled anyone to follow my ways? Never