doubting Quran
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3336, 491 among others.
and look at 528! at Abel's example to his brother. why then, couldn't or didn't the early Muslims follow this example, and why is this "turning of the other cheek" not upheld as a universal rule elsewhere?
and 9111 says that the Injeel encouraged those who followed it to slay, whereas Jesus never said such a thing. and why are all other Biblical examples of others rising up to kill condemned in the strongest language, whereas Muhammed and his followers are given God's blessings to do so?
It's because each of the 5 key Prophets bring a different culture to humanity, and represent a different stage of a human life.
Adam represents a child who has just been born, in the earliest years of his life. Abraham represents an early teenager, learning to behave himself, hence the story of God ordering Abraham to sacrifice his only Son is about obedience to the will of God. Moses represents a human being in their late teens, early 20s, who is beginning to understand the world. This is what the parting of the waters represents - when Moses parts the Red Sea, this is the separation of Good and Evil. So whilst Abraham only obeyed, Moses was really able to understand the reason why.
Jesus represents a person in their late 20s, early thirties. Jesus didn't just part the waters - he walked over them. In this case the ocean represents the feelings. Hence Jesus was really able to rise above his feelings, just as a person in their early 30s must be able to control how they feel and respect others.
Muhammad represents finally becoming a real Adult, a person approaching the age of 40. Muhammad's message is one of responsibility, as by this age a person should have a family, other people to care for. This is why the Quran isn't about Pacifism. Jesus' message was one of pacifism as Jesus' age was that of someone getting married, when the most important thing is to make peace with your partner. Muhammad represent a fully grown Man, who must be ready to fight to look after and stand up for his family.
My acknowledgments to Bapak Muhammad Subuh, who's explanations of the stages of life represented by 5 Prophets I've cribbed here. They can be found summarised by John Bennett in his book, 'Concerning Subud'.
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I wonder, can a person be Muslim and follow the example of Jesus instead of Mohammad?
Peace,
God has made mention of many "good examples".
They are mentioned in the Quran. We have cited for the people every kind of example in this Quran, that they may take heed.
4359 - Jesus was a good example
604 - Abraham was a good example
606 - Those who seek God and the last day are a good exampleIn short, all true believers are a good example.
God bless,
dotty
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And all good examples are true believers.
Zing!
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Salam Wakas,
peace Taj, all,
As a general note...
When a term such as "messenger" is used it primarily refers to role, i.e. a person can only be a messenger when they have a message. Who the actual person is is not as important, because they are defined by them having a message (in this case, The Quran).If we remove our traditional baggage and emotion, we can easily show this with an example
At a swimming pool or beach, if there is a sign that says "Please obey the lifeguard at all times." then it is directly referring to the person's role as a lifeguard and nothing else. Let's say the lifeguard's name happened to be Fred, imagine the difference in meaning if the sign said "Obey Fred at all times". We can all see that this is a totally different message! It is no coincidence that every swimming pool or beach in the entire world* does not use a sign that refers to the person's name rather than their role, as they know it would be nonsense.
- none that I have seen or heard of at least.
I know what you mean for that was my initial position and my argument with Kyle. But it did not solve the problem. In terms of obeying, Allah gives the same weight to Him and to His messenger. Muhammad, Easa and all the classic messengers are long dead. The messenger that God wants us to obey, at all times, cannot die. The messenger has to be the Quran that when I obey I would be obeying God as both would be saying the same thing.
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I take the word "messenger"" referring to anyone that preaches the truth about God and His commands...
That is why i think it is important to consider all message carefully before we judge someone or the msges... because they might be the messenger for that particular moment...
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Peace
Jibreel is the one I know of, and no other. Not sure what you mean about disguising.
Regarding the human messenger his role is manifold and therefore you will have other factors to look at to be clear about the messenger's constitution. This one should explain, teach, and practice what he preaches.
Joe
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brothers and sisters ~
these past few days i have had a lot of doubt. as to faith, God, the Quran, religious truth...
Me too - and the conclusion I came to?
ALL religions are man made - NOT from God.
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ALL religions are man made - NOT from God.
I agree... yes
If we see this universe we see great wisdom of the creator but do we find the same great wisdom in any religion? nope
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The God promotes way of life rather than religion in the Quran so yes religion in the loose sense of the word is man made.
The quran describes a way of life rather than a religion from my reading of it.
PEACE
actually, this is what i am coming to understand, too. masha'allah. peace the Quran says so many wonderfully true things about God, and the attributes it lists are beautiful, diverse, and comprehensive. the Quran is a guide, a beautiful guide to be read, studied, considered, and learned from. yet it is not God, nor is it God embodied. Isalm (surrender to God) is a way of life, sirat al-mustaqim.
we can't simply internalize an abstract formula or mantra, we have to live in order to learn, and in order to walk the paths of peace He shows us to. alhamdulillah.
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Peace CD,
ALL religions are man made - NOT from God.
Exactly. All religions (millat) are manmade and without humans there would be no such thing as a religion. This is why there is no such thing as the religion of God and even monotheism is described in the great reading as the religion of Abaraham (millat Ibrahim). On the other hand, peacemaking (islam) is a universal obligation. It is our only true obligation to the god.
Peace,
Ayman
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Are you an athiest or a deist, cosmic?
I do believe in God - but not any religion.
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Do you believe the Quran came from God CD?
I used to.
I don't anymore.
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You don't think God has provided any guidance to his creatures?
I don't know - is the most honest answer I can give you.
I certainly don't believe he provided guidance in the form of books or prophets.
But I am open to the idea that he provided guidance in our inner being/conscience.
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cosmic ~ salam. in your youtube clip, you introduce the text description of the clip by giving praise and recognition to God, and call Him by Quranic attributes.
i did try doing as you do not, believing in God yet not the Quran. but i found myself calling Him by the Quranic asma al-husna in prayer, and agreeing with them, that yes, they did describe the Being we call God or Allah. actually, the asma al-husna were what first convinced me to look into Islam and the Quran.
it's good to have a relationship with God- i believe He has created us to worship Him, to be thankful, and to invite Him, the Living, into the details of our lives. that is how i understand deen.