doubting Quran
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And all good examples are true believers.
Zing!
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Salam Wakas,
peace Taj, all,
As a general note...
When a term such as "messenger" is used it primarily refers to role, i.e. a person can only be a messenger when they have a message. Who the actual person is is not as important, because they are defined by them having a message (in this case, The Quran).If we remove our traditional baggage and emotion, we can easily show this with an example
At a swimming pool or beach, if there is a sign that says "Please obey the lifeguard at all times." then it is directly referring to the person's role as a lifeguard and nothing else. Let's say the lifeguard's name happened to be Fred, imagine the difference in meaning if the sign said "Obey Fred at all times". We can all see that this is a totally different message! It is no coincidence that every swimming pool or beach in the entire world* does not use a sign that refers to the person's name rather than their role, as they know it would be nonsense.
- none that I have seen or heard of at least.
I know what you mean for that was my initial position and my argument with Kyle. But it did not solve the problem. In terms of obeying, Allah gives the same weight to Him and to His messenger. Muhammad, Easa and all the classic messengers are long dead. The messenger that God wants us to obey, at all times, cannot die. The messenger has to be the Quran that when I obey I would be obeying God as both would be saying the same thing.
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I take the word "messenger"" referring to anyone that preaches the truth about God and His commands...
That is why i think it is important to consider all message carefully before we judge someone or the msges... because they might be the messenger for that particular moment...
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Peace
Jibreel is the one I know of, and no other. Not sure what you mean about disguising.
Regarding the human messenger his role is manifold and therefore you will have other factors to look at to be clear about the messenger's constitution. This one should explain, teach, and practice what he preaches.
Joe
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brothers and sisters ~
these past few days i have had a lot of doubt. as to faith, God, the Quran, religious truth...
Me too - and the conclusion I came to?
ALL religions are man made - NOT from God.
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ALL religions are man made - NOT from God.
I agree... yes
If we see this universe we see great wisdom of the creator but do we find the same great wisdom in any religion? nope
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The God promotes way of life rather than religion in the Quran so yes religion in the loose sense of the word is man made.
The quran describes a way of life rather than a religion from my reading of it.
PEACE
actually, this is what i am coming to understand, too. masha'allah. peace the Quran says so many wonderfully true things about God, and the attributes it lists are beautiful, diverse, and comprehensive. the Quran is a guide, a beautiful guide to be read, studied, considered, and learned from. yet it is not God, nor is it God embodied. Isalm (surrender to God) is a way of life, sirat al-mustaqim.
we can't simply internalize an abstract formula or mantra, we have to live in order to learn, and in order to walk the paths of peace He shows us to. alhamdulillah.
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Peace CD,
ALL religions are man made - NOT from God.
Exactly. All religions (millat) are manmade and without humans there would be no such thing as a religion. This is why there is no such thing as the religion of God and even monotheism is described in the great reading as the religion of Abaraham (millat Ibrahim). On the other hand, peacemaking (islam) is a universal obligation. It is our only true obligation to the god.
Peace,
Ayman
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Are you an athiest or a deist, cosmic?
I do believe in God - but not any religion.
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Do you believe the Quran came from God CD?
I used to.
I don't anymore.
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You don't think God has provided any guidance to his creatures?
I don't know - is the most honest answer I can give you.
I certainly don't believe he provided guidance in the form of books or prophets.
But I am open to the idea that he provided guidance in our inner being/conscience.
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cosmic ~ salam. in your youtube clip, you introduce the text description of the clip by giving praise and recognition to God, and call Him by Quranic attributes.
i did try doing as you do not, believing in God yet not the Quran. but i found myself calling Him by the Quranic asma al-husna in prayer, and agreeing with them, that yes, they did describe the Being we call God or Allah. actually, the asma al-husna were what first convinced me to look into Islam and the Quran.
it's good to have a relationship with God- i believe He has created us to worship Him, to be thankful, and to invite Him, the Living, into the details of our lives. that is how i understand deen.
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I don't know - is the most honest answer I can give you.
I certainly don't believe he provided guidance in the form of books or prophets.
But I am open to the idea that he provided guidance in our inner being/conscience.
That's what I think the prophet's are, people who's inner being and conscience/consciousness is guided by God, by the spirit, the Ruh Allah. I think a lot of religious believers make the mistake of seeing them as machines, with one purpose only, as if God was only using human beings as prophets because he couldn't find a tape recorder. Whereas in reality they're as fallible as the rest of us. But still with an important role to play. After all, without the prophet's, hardly anyone would have heard of God, as a singular entity, so it can hardly all have been an accident that now half the world is Christian or Muslim.
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cosmic ~ salam. in your youtube clip, you introduce the text description of the clip by giving praise and recognition to God, and call Him by Quranic attributes.
i did try doing as you do not, believing in God yet not the Quran. but i found myself calling Him by the Quranic asma al-husna in prayer, and agreeing with them, that yes, they did describe the Being we call God or Allah. actually, the asma al-husna were what first convinced me to look into Islam and the Quran.
it's good to have a relationship with God- i believe He has created us to worship Him, to be thankful, and to invite Him, the Living, into the details of our lives. that is how i understand deen.
Good for you - I'm sure your faith is very sincere.
My faith is also very sincere and I have tried for a long time to believe the Qur'an is the word of God.
But I simply can't.
For example Hell in the Qur'an is described in such a way that I find it impossible to see as some sort of allegory or metaphor. Did you see this video I made here
http//uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd1P8SPcXPY
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