Why were these unique versions of the Qur'an later destroyed by fire?
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Peace
Of course, they had miralces, which some had the honor of seeing it with their own eyes.
Like spliting of the sea, prophet Ibrahim walked out of the fire, .... and so on.2106
When we abrogate any miracle, or cause it to be forgotten, we produce a better miracle, or at least an equal one. Do you not recognize the fact that GOD is Omnipotent?
Peace -
Peace again,
I need to make a correction. i suspect hamza, or at least a substitute of what was later termed as hamza, was a LETTER during Muhammad's time. That would make the Arabic letter count 29 and the no of initialed surahs(initials ARE LETTERS and thus directly related to the alphabet) is also 29. Hamza has shown significant roles in the mathemtical pattern and thus i cannot ignore this important relation either. A discovery related to hamza is
"Al-Quran al-kareem" though not found in this particular form in the Quran(it does mention "quranun kareem" in 5677) we can be justified in adding the prefix "al" because as youll see it relates to the phrase "allah ar-rahman ar-raheem". YES both phrases "al-quran al-kareem" and "allah ar-rahman arraheem" have the SAME GV = 684 which is ALSO a XPLE OF 19. This is only the case if "Quran" is spelled with "hamza" and the GV of the hamza is "1" just like alif. So call it "hamza" or call it some unique alif like letter, it mustve been there and some sort of dotting/spacing back in Muhammad's time must be the justification for its presence just like the verse nos. GOD Bless! -
Peace everyone,
Why were these unique versions of the Qur'an later destroyed by fire?
The very title of this thread is very revealing. In philosophy, one can gain as much knowledge from the question as from the answer. In this case, we can learn very clear facts about the mindset of the questioner.
This question is like asking "Why are Martians green?" The questioner has an answer in mind and is expecting you to answer something like "because they eat lots of spinach" or something like that. Of course, the real question is "how do you know that there is such a thing as Martians in the first place?"
So the question to Bahman and Code 19ers is "how do you know that these unique versions of the Qur'an were later destroyed by fire in the first place?" The answer is of course, the same way they found out that 9128-129 were added to the great reading HADITHS. They then work backwards to justify their HADITHS-based preconceptions. They believe in HADITHS and in their CODE 19 more than they believe in the god's promise that no falsehood would enter the great reading.
Remember that 7430-31 tells us "the count/counting of 19 is nothing except a "fitna" (attractive temptation) for the disbelievers". So it is not surprising that we find empirical verification of this fact in the attitude of those who don't really believe in what 7430-31 is saying.
As for early "versions" of the great reading, they are not unique. In fact, all the ancient manuscripts of Chapter 9 in existence have 9128-129. Here is an example that everyone can verify with their own eyes
http//www.unesco.org/webworld/mdm/visite/sanaa/image1/066049C.jpeg
The radiocarbon dating of the above manuscript suggests a date of about 657CE to 690CE at the latest.
Also, Bahman and other Code 19ers might want to check an even earlier manuscript that is estimated to date to the first half of the 600s CE in Biblioth?que Nationale, Paris, Folio 44b. This folio shows 9121 - 9129, 101 - 102.
Peace,
Ayman
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So the question to Bahman and Code 19ers is "how do you know that these unique versions of the Qur'an were later destroyed by fire in the first place?" The answer is of course, the same way they found out that 9128-129 were added to the great reading HADITHS. They then work backwards to justify their HADITHS-based preconceptions. They believe in HADITHS and in their CODE 19 more than they believe in the god's promise that no falsehood would enter the great reading.
Peace.
7431 )
My topic is copy of this
Why were these unique versions of the Qur'an later destroyed by fire?
Show us your response to claims in that site, No mention of 9-128-129 )
Peace -
Peace Bahman,
My topic is copy of this
Why were these unique versions of the Qur'an later destroyed by fire?
Show us your response to claims in that site, No mention of 9-128-129The claims on the site are all based on false Hadiths. At least it is good that you are now trying to distance yourself from those claims.
Peace,
Ayman
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At least it is good that you are now trying to distance yourself from those claims.
Peace Ayman
I am not distancing myself from the truth, I am bringing attention of truth seekers to facts. Now we witness such superhuman interlocking security design exposing the fraud and fabrication of those 2 verses.
All you need to understand such greatness is understand how to use +/-x, unless you with you phd in mathematic can produce one of those.
Just show us if you can do it then of course your work would be considered as smart work of this creature, hence those orders and verse numbers have been recorded 19 years after prophet passed away, by the remind you that such order has been locked into table 23 which I consider it another Miracle when none of these Mathematician could design such table.It was 7 years ago I started to find if any body can design one like it.
One of those PHD holders tried for days and hours using special math CAD and could not go more than 17 number (chapters).
How about you as a mathematician in this forum may can do it. Just try it and see how much knowledge you have. Then we consider your claims.
Peace -
...The question to Bahman and Code 19ers is "how do you know that these unique versions of the Qur'an were later destroyed by fire in the first place?" The answer is of course, the same way they found out that 9128-129 were added to the great reading HADITHS. They then work backwards to justify their HADITHS-based preconceptions. They believe in HADITHS and in their CODE 19 more than they believe in the god's promise that no falsehood would enter the great reading...
This is a very interesting concept, and it is very true. The assumption that the early versions of Al-Qur'aan were destroyed by fire is completely based on hadeeths, and that's not sufficient enough to make it true. The early versions may not have even been actually destroyed at all - it could have easily been falsely prescribed, just like so many of the other hadeeths we see floating around...
Peace.
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Peace everybody;
Please help me to understand the following step by step.Dr.Rashad Khalifah in appendices no 24 wrote
1-Nineteen years after the Prophet Muhammad's death, during the reign of Khalifa `Uthman, a committee of scribes was appointed to make several copies of the Quran to be dispatched to the new Muslim lands. The copies were to be made from the original Quran which was written by Muhammad's hand (Appendix 2.
Do you notice any flaw in above?
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cont....
This committee was supervised by
Uthman IbnAffaan,Ali Ibn Abi Taaleb, Zeid Ibn Thaabet, Ubayy Ibn Kaab,Abdullah Ibn Al-Zubair, Saeed Ibn Al-Aas, andAbdul Rahman Ibn Al-Haareth Ibn Heshaam. The Prophet, of course, had written the Quran in its chronological order of revelation (Appendix 23), together with the necessary instructions to place every piece in its proper position. The last sura revealed in Medina was Sura 9. Only Sura 110, a very short sura, was revealed after Sura 9, in Mina.
The committee of scribes finally came to Sura 9, and put it in its proper place. One of the scribes suggested adding a couple of verses to honor the Prophet. The majority of scribes agreed.Ali was outraged. He vehemently maintained that the word of God, written down by the hand of His final prophet, must never be altered. Ali's protest is documented in many references, but I cite and reproduce here the classic reference AL ITQAAN FEE 'ULUM AL QURAN by Jalaluddin Al-Suyuty, Al-Azhareyyah Press, Cairo, Egypt, 1318 AH, Page 59 . http//www.submission.org/images/hadith.GIF TranslationAli was asked "Why are you staying home?" He said, "Something
has been added to the Quran, and I have pledged never to put on my street clothes,
except for the prayer, until the Quran is restored."Any flaw?
cont,,, -
Peace "ayman",
The earliest complete manuscript dated by C-14 date back to 645-690 CE(http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_and_development_of_the_Qur%27an#Oldest_copy_known_today) i.e. the lower bound still 13 yrs after Muhammad's death who died in 632 AD(http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad). SO LETS WAIT till we find manuscripts before 632 AD and if we still find 9128&129 in them as i said then the code-19 is very weak if not entirely falsified. THIS is infact one of its falsification tests you once asked for. GOD Bless! -
Peace JK,
The earliest complete manuscript dated by C-14 date back to 645-690 CE(http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_and_development_of_the_Qur%27an#Oldest_copy_known_today) i.e. the lower bound still 13 yrs after Muhammad's death who died in 632 AD(http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad). SO LETS WAIT till we find manuscripts before 632 AD and if we still find 9128&129 in them as i said then the code-19 is very weak if not entirely falsified. THIS is infact one of its falsification tests you once asked for. GOD Bless!
This settles it then.
Dr. Khalifa and you use the traditional chrnonology and you say above that the prophet died in 632CE. In addition, here is what Dr. Khalifa clearly said in Appendix 24
"Nineteen years after the Prophet's death, some scribes injected two false verses at the end of
Sura 9, the last sura revealed in Medina."So the manuscipt that we need to find should be reasonably dated to prior to 632+19 = 651CE
The manuscript that is dated to 645CE beats this date and so do a few others.
Also, the actual date is probably on the earlier side because Carbon dating in this case is most likely to be skewed up because of contamination by later generations. Remember that those manuscripts were used in everyday life to read from and were passed down from one generation to the next. They were not put in some pottery and stored like the dead sea scrolls. This can be obvious in the later additions such as the border decorations in the manuscript that I showed you above which upon closer examination one can clearly see that the border was not part of the original but was added by later hands.
http//img225.imageshack.us/img225/7626/bordercloseupgo8.gif
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace "ayman",
Peace JK,
This settles it then.
Dr. Khalifa and you use the traditional chrnonology and you say above that the prophet died in 632CE. In addition, here is what Dr. Khalifa clearly said in Appendix 24
"Nineteen years after the Prophet's death, some scribes injected two false verses at the end of
Sura 9, the last sura revealed in Medina."So the manuscipt that we need to find should be reasonably dated to prior to 632+19 = 651CE
The manuscript that is dated to 645CE beats this date and so do a few others.
JK- This is what RK MIGHT have said and if he did he did so out of emotion for theres no evidence for this and i disagree with this statement.
Also, the actual date is probably on the earlier side because Carbon dating in this case is most likely to be skewed up because of contamination by later generations. Remember that those manuscripts were used in everyday life to read from and were passed down from one generation to the next. They were not put in some pottery and stored like the dead sea scrolls. This can be obvious in the later additions such as the border decorations in the manuscript that I showed you above which upon closer examination one can clearly see that the border was not part of the original but was added by later hands.
http//img225.imageshack.us/img225/7626/bordercloseupgo8.gif
Peace,
Ayman
JK- Speculations are not enough. We'll just have to wait and see. However one thing is clear. If the Quran does not contain a numerical pattern of some kind then theres no way for us to know that it has been protected and we will never know if verses have been added or not. It would then become unfalsifiable and thus have no more value than any other religious book. GOD Bless!
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Erm why should anyone proves Quran divinity? Is the teaching and wisdom inside it is not enough to prove it? Even if one can prove the original does not contain 9128,129 or it is burnt then what? Disregard the other valuable wisdoms for the sake of 2 ayas and making sure it clicks with 19? What if the original contain something else how would we react? This i don't understand yet. Can somebody explain? I like to hear opinions on this. Thanks.
Peace out
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Erm why should anyone proves Quran divinity? Is the teaching and wisdom inside it is not enough to prove it? Even if one can prove the original does not contain 9128,129 or it is burnt then what? Disregard the other valuable wisdoms for the sake of 2 ayas and making sure it clicks with 19? What if the original contain something else how would we react? This i don't understand yet. Can somebody explain? I like to hear opinions on this. Thanks.
Peace outPeace
We hear in media so many Shia and Sunni are killing each other daily. This is not new it has been for last 14 centuries.
Time superpower changed the history and fabricated KHILAFAT for such bloodshed. If all Sunnis and shia understand the reality then all of them will come back to God Alone Quran Alone which such bloodshed has been originally for adding 2 verse at end of chapter 9.
Peace -
What do you mean by this?
Thanks
Peace
We at this era with all education and knowledge plus all these news media are cheated and after many years we find the fact. The news and fact are hide by either side ,the free world that news media are in control of investors or dictatorial systems that rules the media.
1400 years ago rarely people were educated and can read and write ( even after 1400 years yet same situation ). The historian and scribes , and educated people were servants of rulers and had to write the history by winner as happens even today.
The difficulty between Sunnis and Shia has been started by adding 2 verses to end of chapter 9 which Ali did not accepted and resulted into such bloodshed for centuries. The winner changed history and blamed on Ali claim for Khilafat and yet descendent of them which are in power in Iran as leading Shia follow what their parents followed blindly .
Now by tool available inside book 7430 the 2 fabricated verse at the end of chapter 9 is removed and Quran is back to its original divinity for this chapter.
If Sunnis and Shai accept the fact that all this bloodshed original was over 9128-129 then should remove fabricated brand name as Sunni and Shia and all believe in God Alone Quran Alone 319 and peace.
Peace. -
I see what you mean now. But how would that solve the bloodshed problem? If i'm not mistaken the two verse is not the root cause of their bloodshed. I think you know that.
You pointed out 319. and it clearly says
319 The system with God is submission, and those who received the Scripture did not dispute except after the knowledge came to them out of jealousy between them. And whoever rejects Gods signs, then God is swift in judgment.
This is the root cause IMHO. Not the two verses. Both groups including other groups (maybe this group too?) think they're better than others. Judging others as if they know better than God. If one if egoistic enough they will not notice this kind of thing no matter how much we suggest to them. Bringing the two verses issue will also light up more fire than extinguishing it. Don't you think it is like this my friend?
knowledge + ego + confusion + judgment + force = bad news