Why were these unique versions of the Qur'an later destroyed by fire?
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Peace Bahman,
My topic is copy of this
Why were these unique versions of the Qur'an later destroyed by fire?
Show us your response to claims in that site, No mention of 9-128-129The claims on the site are all based on false Hadiths. At least it is good that you are now trying to distance yourself from those claims.
Peace,
Ayman
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At least it is good that you are now trying to distance yourself from those claims.
Peace Ayman
I am not distancing myself from the truth, I am bringing attention of truth seekers to facts. Now we witness such superhuman interlocking security design exposing the fraud and fabrication of those 2 verses.
All you need to understand such greatness is understand how to use +/-x, unless you with you phd in mathematic can produce one of those.
Just show us if you can do it then of course your work would be considered as smart work of this creature, hence those orders and verse numbers have been recorded 19 years after prophet passed away, by the remind you that such order has been locked into table 23 which I consider it another Miracle when none of these Mathematician could design such table.It was 7 years ago I started to find if any body can design one like it.
One of those PHD holders tried for days and hours using special math CAD and could not go more than 17 number (chapters).
How about you as a mathematician in this forum may can do it. Just try it and see how much knowledge you have. Then we consider your claims.
Peace -
...The question to Bahman and Code 19ers is "how do you know that these unique versions of the Qur'an were later destroyed by fire in the first place?" The answer is of course, the same way they found out that 9128-129 were added to the great reading HADITHS. They then work backwards to justify their HADITHS-based preconceptions. They believe in HADITHS and in their CODE 19 more than they believe in the god's promise that no falsehood would enter the great reading...
This is a very interesting concept, and it is very true. The assumption that the early versions of Al-Qur'aan were destroyed by fire is completely based on hadeeths, and that's not sufficient enough to make it true. The early versions may not have even been actually destroyed at all - it could have easily been falsely prescribed, just like so many of the other hadeeths we see floating around...
Peace.
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Peace everybody;
Please help me to understand the following step by step.Dr.Rashad Khalifah in appendices no 24 wrote
1-Nineteen years after the Prophet Muhammad's death, during the reign of Khalifa `Uthman, a committee of scribes was appointed to make several copies of the Quran to be dispatched to the new Muslim lands. The copies were to be made from the original Quran which was written by Muhammad's hand (Appendix 2.
Do you notice any flaw in above?
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cont....
This committee was supervised by
Uthman IbnAffaan,Ali Ibn Abi Taaleb, Zeid Ibn Thaabet, Ubayy Ibn Kaab,Abdullah Ibn Al-Zubair, Saeed Ibn Al-Aas, andAbdul Rahman Ibn Al-Haareth Ibn Heshaam. The Prophet, of course, had written the Quran in its chronological order of revelation (Appendix 23), together with the necessary instructions to place every piece in its proper position. The last sura revealed in Medina was Sura 9. Only Sura 110, a very short sura, was revealed after Sura 9, in Mina.
The committee of scribes finally came to Sura 9, and put it in its proper place. One of the scribes suggested adding a couple of verses to honor the Prophet. The majority of scribes agreed.Ali was outraged. He vehemently maintained that the word of God, written down by the hand of His final prophet, must never be altered. Ali's protest is documented in many references, but I cite and reproduce here the classic reference AL ITQAAN FEE 'ULUM AL QURAN by Jalaluddin Al-Suyuty, Al-Azhareyyah Press, Cairo, Egypt, 1318 AH, Page 59 . http//www.submission.org/images/hadith.GIF TranslationAli was asked "Why are you staying home?" He said, "Something
has been added to the Quran, and I have pledged never to put on my street clothes,
except for the prayer, until the Quran is restored."Any flaw?
cont,,, -
Peace "ayman",
The earliest complete manuscript dated by C-14 date back to 645-690 CE(http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_and_development_of_the_Qur%27an#Oldest_copy_known_today) i.e. the lower bound still 13 yrs after Muhammad's death who died in 632 AD(http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad). SO LETS WAIT till we find manuscripts before 632 AD and if we still find 9128&129 in them as i said then the code-19 is very weak if not entirely falsified. THIS is infact one of its falsification tests you once asked for. GOD Bless! -
Peace JK,
The earliest complete manuscript dated by C-14 date back to 645-690 CE(http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_and_development_of_the_Qur%27an#Oldest_copy_known_today) i.e. the lower bound still 13 yrs after Muhammad's death who died in 632 AD(http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad). SO LETS WAIT till we find manuscripts before 632 AD and if we still find 9128&129 in them as i said then the code-19 is very weak if not entirely falsified. THIS is infact one of its falsification tests you once asked for. GOD Bless!
This settles it then.
Dr. Khalifa and you use the traditional chrnonology and you say above that the prophet died in 632CE. In addition, here is what Dr. Khalifa clearly said in Appendix 24
"Nineteen years after the Prophet's death, some scribes injected two false verses at the end of
Sura 9, the last sura revealed in Medina."So the manuscipt that we need to find should be reasonably dated to prior to 632+19 = 651CE
The manuscript that is dated to 645CE beats this date and so do a few others.
Also, the actual date is probably on the earlier side because Carbon dating in this case is most likely to be skewed up because of contamination by later generations. Remember that those manuscripts were used in everyday life to read from and were passed down from one generation to the next. They were not put in some pottery and stored like the dead sea scrolls. This can be obvious in the later additions such as the border decorations in the manuscript that I showed you above which upon closer examination one can clearly see that the border was not part of the original but was added by later hands.
http//img225.imageshack.us/img225/7626/bordercloseupgo8.gif
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace "ayman",
Peace JK,
This settles it then.
Dr. Khalifa and you use the traditional chrnonology and you say above that the prophet died in 632CE. In addition, here is what Dr. Khalifa clearly said in Appendix 24
"Nineteen years after the Prophet's death, some scribes injected two false verses at the end of
Sura 9, the last sura revealed in Medina."So the manuscipt that we need to find should be reasonably dated to prior to 632+19 = 651CE
The manuscript that is dated to 645CE beats this date and so do a few others.
JK- This is what RK MIGHT have said and if he did he did so out of emotion for theres no evidence for this and i disagree with this statement.
Also, the actual date is probably on the earlier side because Carbon dating in this case is most likely to be skewed up because of contamination by later generations. Remember that those manuscripts were used in everyday life to read from and were passed down from one generation to the next. They were not put in some pottery and stored like the dead sea scrolls. This can be obvious in the later additions such as the border decorations in the manuscript that I showed you above which upon closer examination one can clearly see that the border was not part of the original but was added by later hands.
http//img225.imageshack.us/img225/7626/bordercloseupgo8.gif
Peace,
Ayman
JK- Speculations are not enough. We'll just have to wait and see. However one thing is clear. If the Quran does not contain a numerical pattern of some kind then theres no way for us to know that it has been protected and we will never know if verses have been added or not. It would then become unfalsifiable and thus have no more value than any other religious book. GOD Bless!
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Erm why should anyone proves Quran divinity? Is the teaching and wisdom inside it is not enough to prove it? Even if one can prove the original does not contain 9128,129 or it is burnt then what? Disregard the other valuable wisdoms for the sake of 2 ayas and making sure it clicks with 19? What if the original contain something else how would we react? This i don't understand yet. Can somebody explain? I like to hear opinions on this. Thanks.
Peace out
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Erm why should anyone proves Quran divinity? Is the teaching and wisdom inside it is not enough to prove it? Even if one can prove the original does not contain 9128,129 or it is burnt then what? Disregard the other valuable wisdoms for the sake of 2 ayas and making sure it clicks with 19? What if the original contain something else how would we react? This i don't understand yet. Can somebody explain? I like to hear opinions on this. Thanks.
Peace outPeace
We hear in media so many Shia and Sunni are killing each other daily. This is not new it has been for last 14 centuries.
Time superpower changed the history and fabricated KHILAFAT for such bloodshed. If all Sunnis and shia understand the reality then all of them will come back to God Alone Quran Alone which such bloodshed has been originally for adding 2 verse at end of chapter 9.
Peace -
What do you mean by this?
Thanks
Peace
We at this era with all education and knowledge plus all these news media are cheated and after many years we find the fact. The news and fact are hide by either side ,the free world that news media are in control of investors or dictatorial systems that rules the media.
1400 years ago rarely people were educated and can read and write ( even after 1400 years yet same situation ). The historian and scribes , and educated people were servants of rulers and had to write the history by winner as happens even today.
The difficulty between Sunnis and Shia has been started by adding 2 verses to end of chapter 9 which Ali did not accepted and resulted into such bloodshed for centuries. The winner changed history and blamed on Ali claim for Khilafat and yet descendent of them which are in power in Iran as leading Shia follow what their parents followed blindly .
Now by tool available inside book 7430 the 2 fabricated verse at the end of chapter 9 is removed and Quran is back to its original divinity for this chapter.
If Sunnis and Shai accept the fact that all this bloodshed original was over 9128-129 then should remove fabricated brand name as Sunni and Shia and all believe in God Alone Quran Alone 319 and peace.
Peace. -
I see what you mean now. But how would that solve the bloodshed problem? If i'm not mistaken the two verse is not the root cause of their bloodshed. I think you know that.
You pointed out 319. and it clearly says
319 The system with God is submission, and those who received the Scripture did not dispute except after the knowledge came to them out of jealousy between them. And whoever rejects Gods signs, then God is swift in judgment.
This is the root cause IMHO. Not the two verses. Both groups including other groups (maybe this group too?) think they're better than others. Judging others as if they know better than God. If one if egoistic enough they will not notice this kind of thing no matter how much we suggest to them. Bringing the two verses issue will also light up more fire than extinguishing it. Don't you think it is like this my friend?
knowledge + ego + confusion + judgment + force = bad news
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Allah says the original Quran is with him. Do you dispute with Allah?
Just pondering (not disputing ;D), If the original Quran is with Him then the Quran in this world now is what? not original? semi original? false? corrupted? How do you discern the original version and not original version? This thread is discussing this... I don't think they're disputing it....
What say you?
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Just pondering (not disputing ;D), If the original Quran is with Him then the Quran in this world now is what? not original? semi original? false? corrupted? How do you discern the original version and not original version? This thread is discussing this... I don't think they're disputing it....
What say you?
Salam,
The misunderstanding comes from the fact that "Qura" means to call out/recite etc.
The revealation given to Muhammad in book form is called The Quran.
The original recitation (Quran) is with Allah. You have what was given to Muhammad in book form which is called "The Quran."
Salam,
Arnab -
I see what you mean now. But how would that solve the bloodshed problem? If i'm not mistaken the two verse is not the root cause of their bloodshed. I think you know that.
You pointed out 319. and it clearly says
319 The system with God is submission, and those who received the Scripture did not dispute except after the knowledge came to them out of jealousy between them. And whoever rejects God?s signs, then God is swift in judgment.
This is the root cause IMHO. Not the two verses. Both groups including other groups (maybe this group too?) think they're better than others. Judging others as if they know better than God. If one if egoistic enough they will not notice this kind of thing no matter how much we suggest to them. Bringing the two verses issue will also light up more fire than extinguishing it. Don't you think it is like this my friend?
knowledge + ego + confusion + judgment + force = bad news
As soon as you accept you submit to God Alone ?Submission? you loose your ex belief brand name, ??..sunni, hanafi?..jafari, shis, bahaie??
But being a Muslim ?submitter? based on Quran needs proof for the book . Verses context for protection and securing it can not be seen and is like a human wrote unless we have solid proof that Quran is not manipulated like previous one.
Certainly its Arabic Excellency rhyme style in its time and for its location (Arab?s Communities and only those well educated can read and see text miracle can not be work of Mohammed, Some Iranian say it is work of Salman Farsi which may the verse indicate somebody else is writing those messages links to this rumor in that time. Took 1400 years until they come with such imitation.
http//suralikeit.com
BUT if this forging was done 1400 years ago then we had another Quran and which one is original is like peace of yellow metal . It has to go trough examination to find which piece is gold.
Human never has such an ability to examine God?s words and God knew that . He embedded into his word with pointing their secrecy of book . He placed tool for such examination and revealed to the one had enough knowledge to use computer and the time that this screen is transmitting it to whole world.
That is Miracle of this era sitting at you room and quietly study it examine and enjoy it, enjoy the greatness of God in His wisdom and greatness of His design which the most knowledgeable mathematician equipped with most advanced CAD are not able to imitate a simple one.
When first time that forged Quran was published was big news and Mohammedan asked for banning it but we Miracle believers laugh at it do not function and cannot pass code examination.
Without computer we can not see this securing and protecting system spreading all over whole book in a symmetrically method with their own consistency in groups.. So now we have this proof and clearly shows that 2 verses has been added to book.
Believing In such fact is end of any dispute and bloodshed because it removed and we have no argument about it. But jealousy comes from of all corrupted belief ( Mostly clergies and scholar which loose their jobs) including Sunni, shia against such proof . Because they have to close all those religions schools and like me and you read God?s messages directly on this screen. Now which messages? Those that have proof.
Thin for moment if those people killing each other were into discussing and search like us here was there any bloodshed?
Certainly there are many educated one that have been brain washed with their parent belief but now is time to examine it and follow what you can verify it 1736
knowledge + ego + confusion + judgment + force = bad newsknowledge can be following our ancestors knowledge and do try to if their knowledge was right?
Ego is part of any human, many of us try to avoid it but how far we can depends on situation and our environment.
Human never has flawless judgment and that is most destructive element.
Unfortunately force has been there and would be to end of this illusion.
Force can be physically to cause pain or can be hide into satnic desires forcing us toward negative path..We people discuss the issue peacefully and we never do suicide bombers action . It that right my friend?
Peace.