Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Peace Nun,
2185 Shahr Ramadan, which the Quran was descended in it
Which is Ramadan?
Solstice Moon Illusion June 16, 2008 Full Strawberry Moon or Rose MoonOut of all the full-moons that you listed, the solstice moon takes the lowest path accross the horizon and thus has the most vivid reddish color and stays red the longest (thus the name strawberry/rose moon)
http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast14jun_1.htm
There are actually two solstice moons, the one right before the summer solstice and the one right after the summer solstice. So which one is it?
The word "ramadan"/scorching has two connotation (1) the color red (2) hot. Naturally, the solstice moon after the summer solstice would be the one that best fits those two criteria.
I hope this helps.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace rsw,
what if it's cloudy?
Same as if underground or cannot see. None are accountable for circumstances beyond their control.
btw, interesting reading your story in the other thread.
Peace Ayman,
Out of all the full-moons that you listed, the solstice moon takes the lowest path accross the horizon and thus has the most vivid reddish color and stays red the longest (thus the name strawberry/rose moon)
http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast14jun_1.htm
There are actually two solstice moons, the one right before the summer solstice and the one right after the summer solstice. So which one is it?
The word "ramadan"/scorching has two connotation (1) the color red (2) hot. Naturally, the solstice moon after the summer solstice would be the one that best fits those two criteria.
Yes when I first saw the huge moon it freaked me out; thought it was going to crash into earth.
Moonrise, Moonset and Moonphase for Saudi Arabia ? Makkah ? July 2008
http//www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?n=151&month=7&year=2008&obj=moon&afl=-11&day=1
June 21 2008 Begins Summer in the Northern Hemisphere
Next full moon occurred 30 days later in day time...
Date Illuminated Phase
Jul 16, 2008 97.8%
Jul 17, 2008
Jul 18, 2008 99.8% Full at 1059 AM
Jul 19, 2008 99.7%
Jul 20, 2008 97.4%How do we witness which night/day is Ramadan?
Also, its clear Quran was sent in a night 971 ?
973 the night Al-Qadr better than a thousand shahr
Was that ?night? (i.e. time sunset to dawn) better than a thousand full moon snapshots witnessed?
Or
Better than a thousand months (i.e. lunar cycles x 1000 = 80.852076 years or lifetime witnessed)?
These Google algorithms are smart.
http//www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1C1GGLS_en-USUS291&q=lunar+cycles+x+1000&btnG=SearchPeace
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Peace Ayman,
To clarify a bit on the first question...
Next full moon occurred 30 days later in day time...
Date Illuminated Phase
Jul 16, 2008 97.8%
Jul 17, 2008
Jul 18, 2008 99.8% Full at 1059 AM
Jul 19, 2008 99.7%
Jul 20, 2008 97.4%How do we witness/know which of the four phases is full moon?
http//s4.tinypic.com/24faadt.jpg
Learning Things
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=5riBjv3MZyUPeace
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Peace all,
How do we witness/know which of the four phases is full moon?
Some time ago I noticed that the full moon rose after the sun set. I didn'it verify the illumination percentage but my hunch would be that the full moon with the highest percentage of illumination would be the night it rose after the sunset.
adjwi
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I just got a ? (2)
Is this the month OF hotness or not?
In other words, is this the moon of redness or not?
iN OTHER WORDS IS IT THE THE TIME OF FASTING OR NOT?
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Peace adjwi,
Some time ago I noticed that the full moon rose after the sun set. I didn'it verify the illumination percentage but my hunch would be that the full moon with the highest percentage of illumination would be the night it rose after the sunset.
adjwi
Use link below and check the full moon for your area after June 21st and notice sometimes they appear in the daytime and varying hours as well.
Moonrise, Moonset and Moonphase for Saudi Arabia ? Makkah ? July 2008
http//www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?n=151&month=7&year=2008&obj=moon&afl=-11&day=1
Jul 16, 2008 97.8%
Jul 17, 2008
Jul 18, 2008 99.8% Full at 1059 AM
Jul 19, 2008 99.7%Take a look at the picture I posted earlier and imagine walking outside seeing each of those four moons individually (don't have luxury to compare next to each other) -- how would be able to tell which is the full moon with less than .3% Illuminated Phase difference?
The new moon waxing crescent (D in DOC) stands out as does waning crescent C...
http//farm4.static.flickr.com/3226/2472224091_c9637ac4f8.jpg?v=0
I just got a ? (2)
Is this the month OF hotness or not?
In other words, is this the moon of redness or not?
iN OTHER WORDS IS IT THE THE TIME OF FASTING OR NOT?
We're getting there anthony.
Peace
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Salaaman Anthoney,
What??? ???
I just got a ? (2)
Is this the month OF hotness or not?
In other words, is this the moon of redness or not?
iN OTHER WORDS IS IT THE THE TIME OF FASTING OR NOT?
You said you got "a" ?
Then you extended to (2)
And finally asked THREElaugh
Regards,
mmKhan -
Salaaman Anthoney,
What??? ???
You said you got "a" ?
Then you extended to (2)
And finally asked THREElaugh
Regards,
mmKhanlaugh
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Peace Frida and All;
Ayman is avoiding to answer my point; as you can note, Summer was after the 4 restricted Month (9-81). in other words, Rammadan had to be 4 month before summer time, and cann't fall in June 15.
If Ayman does not answer, then, I will understand that Ayman is deliberately trying to lead people Astray.Peace
Salaam Belalhammad
I had time to understand the relevance of 91-5 and 81 last night
Free_Minds
95 So when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill those who have set up partners wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and honor the connection, and contribute towards betterment, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving,95 tells us that? when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill....?
Hence , 4 months later, when the war was going on as in
Free_Minds
981 Those who have remained are happy with their position of lagging behind God's messenger, and they disliked striving with their wealth and lives in the cause of God; and they say "Do not mobilize in the heat." Say "The fire of Hell is far hotter," if they could only understand...... "Do not mobilize in the heat." confirms that fighting was indeed engaged during the hot season.
Applying Ayman?s theory
The hot months in Arabia should stretch from May to August, which means that Ramadan must have occurred sometime in April/May according to the verses above.
So Ramadan was not in the month of extreme heat, if we believe Ayman?s theory that the sacred months follow Ramadan and than apply the evidence from the Qur'an...a contradiction here!!!As nun de plume wrote earlier, we are getting there. Alhumdullilah, with the combined effort of everyone here, we are getting to the root question Hot/Ramadan or The Month of Ramadan. I would suggest we all do our own verification by looking into.91-5 and 81
361 Whoever debates with you in this after the knowledge has come to you, then say "Let us call our children and your children, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves, then, let us call out, and we shall make God's curse upon the liars."
peace
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Salaam Belalhammad
I had time to understand the relevance of 91-5 and 81 last night
Free_Minds
95 So when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill those who have set up partners wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and honor the connection, and contribute towards betterment, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving,95 tells us that? when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill....?
Hence , 4 months later, when the war was going on as in
Free_Minds
981 Those who have remained are happy with their position of lagging behind God's messenger, and they disliked striving with their wealth and lives in the cause of God; and they say "Do not mobilize in the heat." Say "The fire of Hell is far hotter," if they could only understand...... "Do not mobilize in the heat." confirms that fighting was indeed engaged during the hot season.
Applying Ayman?s theory
The hot months in Arabia should stretch from May to August, which means that Ramadan must have occurred sometime in April/May according to the verses above.
So Ramadan was not in the month of extreme heat, if we believe Ayman?s theory that the sacred months follow Ramadan and than apply the evidence from the Qur'an...a contradiction here!!!Salam
Summer starts her from june and July & Augusts are the hotest months over here, there is also a ban on A ban on labourers working in the hot afternoon sun from 1230 PM till 430 Pm in these two months.
It is September and still very hot.peace
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Peace all,
Ayman said
I do not agree with this. I do not think that this is the logic behind the etymology of the meaning of 'stages' as it concerns nazala. Despite that we are not dealing with etymology. I was just trying to help people understand the sense behind this meaning and the possible logic for it. manzil means stage, any stage, descending or ascending. As it refers to the moon it includes all its stages before full moon, at full moon and after full moon.
To give a similar word with a somewhat similar concept going on here Mawqa3 means location as well. It is from the root waqa3 which is to fall literally, and also means to occurr/happen. Now Mawqa3 is not where someone literally falls (although it can mean this). It arrived at that meaning from an archaic usage of the concept 'to fall'. Old English I think makes similar use of the concept to fall for location. Ex. "The old oak tree wilst fall to thy left upon the road hither" It can still be used in today's language albeit rare. Ex. "If you keep going straight the store your're looking for will fall on your left." No literal falling at all. And we need only go to the word 'befall' to see how the concept of falling is also connected to occurrence and happenings. So I hope everyone can see how the concept of to fall or descend doesn't have to be literal or order-oriented as it concerns the use of manzil. In the end no matter how far the meanings may seem to stray from the original root, if there is no evidence that it is a post-quranic meaning (the most obvious being that it is an interpretational meaning given by a post-quranic figure) then the meaning is what it is. Period.This is false. Idiomatic usage of a word doesn't change the basic meaning of the word. For example, when one says "hit the road", this doesn't change the meaning of "hit" to "travel". The idiomatic expression as whole is interpreted through cultural nuances as "travel" but linguistically the basic meaning of the word "hit" is the same. The word "MaNAZL" always means something that one descends to. The relationship between the form NZL and MaNAZL is fairly common in the Arabic language, for example, think SJD and MaSAJD, DRS and MaDARS. No one with a grain of common sense would claim that MaDARS can actually mean a place for ignorance (the opposite of study like ascending is the opposite of descending).
Peace,
Ayman
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Salam
Summer starts her from june and July & Augusts are the hotest months over here, there is also a ban on A ban on labourers working in the hot afternoon sun from 1230 PM till 430 Pm in these two months.
It is September and still very hot.peace
Salaam
Afridi,Thank you for this information. So if the hottest months are June, July and August then, as we learn from 981, the war was in one of the hot months, after the sacred months; in other words, at least 3 months had passed since Ramadan, according to Ayman's theory.
Now work it out yourself when was Ramadan?
peace
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Salam
Summer starts her from june and July & Augusts are the hotest months over here, there is also a ban on A ban on labourers working in the hot afternoon sun from 1230 PM till 430 Pm in these two months.
It is September and still very hot.peace
If Rammadan starts in June 25, according to Ayman;
and if Rammdan is the starter of the 4 restricted months;
Then, Verse 9-81 had to be in October.If you look deeply in verse 9-81, you will note that they were complaining from going to war in Summer Season; as you know going to war in the days of prophet is different than our days. It will involve traveling that might take a month, and it will involve weeks of fighting untill some one would win.
In 9-81, they were complaining about doing all the above in Heat time (summer time). Trust me,if it was september, as you said (how did you calculate) they would have never use that reason, knowning that the next two or three month will be not as hot. -
Salaam
Afridi,Thank you for this information. So if the hottest months are June, July and August then, as we learn from 981, the war was in one of the hot months, after the sacred months; in other words, at least 3 months had passed since Ramadan, according to Ayman's theory.
Now work it out yourself when was Ramadan?
peace
Muharam is the first and Ramadan is the ninth month
salam farida
The Islamic months are named as follows
Muharram (or Muarram al aram)
Safar (or afar al Muzaffar)
Rabi' al-awwal (Rab' I)
Rabi' al-thani (or Rab' al Thn, or Rab' al-Akhir) (Rab' II)
Jumada al-awwal (Jumd I)
Jumada al-thani (or Jumd al-akhir) (Jumd II)
Rajab (or Rajab al Murajab)
Sha'aban (or Sha'abn al Moazam)
Ramadan (or Ramzn, long form Raman al Mubarak)
Shawwal (or Shawwal al Mukarram)
Dhu al-Qi'dah
Dhu al-HijjahThe three successive forbidden months mentioned by Muhammad (months in which battles are forbidden) are Dhu al-Qi'dah, Dhu al-Hijjah, and Muharram, thus excluding an intercalary month before Muharram. The single forbidden month is Rajab. These months were considered forbidden both within the new Islamic calendar and within the old pagan Meccan calendar, although whether they maintained their "forbidden" status after the conquest of Mecca has been disputed among Islamic scholars.
peace
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Muharam is the first and Ramadan is the ninth month
salam farida
The Islamic months are named as follows
Muharram (or Muarram al aram)
Safar (or afar al Muzaffar)
Rabi' al-awwal (Rab' I)
Rabi' al-thani (or Rab' al Thn, or Rab' al-Akhir) (Rab' II)
Jumada al-awwal (Jumd I)
Jumada al-thani (or Jumd al-akhir) (Jumd II)
Rajab (or Rajab al Murajab)
Sha'aban (or Sha'abn al Moazam)
Ramadan (or Ramzn, long form Raman al Mubarak)
Shawwal (or Shawwal al Mukarram)
Dhu al-Qi'dah
Dhu al-HijjahThe three successive forbidden months mentioned by Muhammad (months in which battles are forbidden) are Dhu al-Qi'dah, Dhu al-Hijjah, and Muharram, thus excluding an intercalary month before Muharram. The single forbidden month is Rajab. These months were considered forbidden both within the new Islamic calendar and within the old pagan Meccan calendar, although whether they maintained their "forbidden" status after the conquest of Mecca has been disputed among Islamic scholars.
peace
Salaam Afridi
At the moment we are working on Ayman's theroy and not the forbidden months you stated above. I am trying to ascertain when Ramadan could be, if the fighting took place in hot weather.
Bilalhammd is showing that, if we apply Aymans thery, the forbiden months are not in the hot months as the surah indicates.
I hope this helps
peace -
Peace all,
This is false. Idiomatic usage of a word doesn't change the basic meaning of the word. For example, when one says "hit the road", this doesn't change the meaning of "hit" to "travel". The idiomatic expression as whole is interpreted through cultural nuances as "travel" but linguistically the basic meaning of the word "hit" is the same. The word "MaNAZL" always means something that one descends to. The relationship between the form NZL and MaNAZL is fairly common in the Arabic language, for example, think SJD and MaSAJD, DRS and MaDARS. No one with a grain of common sense would claim that MaDARS can actually mean a place for ignorance (the opposite of study like ascending is the opposite of descending).
Peace,
Ayman
Salaam Ayman,
I notice you have been ignoring my posts of late. If, in any way, I have offended you please understand it was not malicious but sometimes, in order to reach a conclusion, one needs to be frank and straightforward.
I would like to thank you for inviting me to take part in this discussion, and let me tell you it has been the most productive ten day of the month of Ramadan for me, and a lot of the credit goes to you for making us find out the truth ourselves.Best regards
farida -
I just got a ? (2)
Is this the month OF hotness or not?
In other words, is this the moon of redness or not?
iN OTHER WORDS IS IT THE THE TIME OF FASTING OR NOT?
laugh laugh laugh What are you saying anthonywallace, I cant stop laughing. laugh
laugh
No it is not he month of hotness
No it is not he moon of redness
hmm It is the time of fastness laugh laugh laugh -
981 Those who have remained are happy with their position of lagging behind God's messenger, and they disliked striving with their wealth and lives in the cause of God; and they say "Do not mobilize in the heat." Say "The fire of Hell is far hotter," if they could only understand.
Salaam allCould it be that they were just trying to find an excuse, and that they were just lying and it was not really hot? The verse gives us their real intention, so what they were saying was not true. If it was really hot (imagine the heat of the desert during summer), wouldn't that be a reasonable excuse?