Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Peace Nun,
Here is an actual picture of the scorching full-moon the night of July 17th-18th (remember that the "midnight" start of the new day is arbitrary and in the great reading the day starts with day break) that sister Marie took herself.
http//img186.imageshack.us/img186/9422/pleinelune2008002ne5.jpg
Taken from
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=17008.msg172650#msg172650
Notice that it takes on an a striking orange hue because the picture seems to have been taken after a while from its rising. Had sister Marie taken the picture a little earlier then it would have appeared more red. Generally, the lower it is on the horizon or the more dusty is the atmosphere (such as in the desert of Arabia), the more red it would appear.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Nun,
People in Chicago (summer) and Buenos Aires (winter) would see the same big RED moon skipped on June 18, 2008.
It is not the same. Please read patiently the article that you provided
?The full Moon of June 18th is a "solstice moon", coming only two days before the beginning of northern summer. This is significant because the sun and full Moon are like kids on a see-saw; when one is high, the other is low. This week's high solstice sun gives us a low, horizon-hugging Moon and a strong Moon Illusion.?
A picture of the Full Moon - July 18, 2008 Start restricted/fast North Hemisphere
A picture of the Full Moon - January 22, 2008 Start restricted/fast South Hemisphere
Above are nothing special NOR are they RED only regular full moons seen in both hemispheres when moon is opposite earth/sun.What was large and red about it; typical full moon?
Full Moon - July 18, 2008
The skipped/not counted one on June 18 was HUGE; freaked me out, thought it was on a collision course with earth...lol
http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/16jun_moonillusion.htmIf you notice, the picture from NASA was taken when the full-moon was very low behind the trees. Even the full-moon on the night of June 18th will appear white like other regular full moons after it has risen enough in the sky by the middle of the night. Remember that what is special about the solstice full-moon is that it takes a lower path than other full moons. So for the first few hours from its rise and last few hours before it sets, it is hanging very low and this is what gives it the reddish color.
"Shahr Ramadan, which the Quran was descended in it, guidance to the people, and evidences from the guidance...
I'll leave you with the above evidences -- there is only one Ramadan.This is baseless since you don?t seem to know the meaning of the Arabic word ?ramadan? and are thus unable to translate it.
Here is an actual picture of the scorching full-moon the night of July 17th-18th (remember that the "midnight" start of the new day is arbitrary and in the great reading the day starts with day break) that sister Marie took herself.
http//img186.imageshack.us/img186/9422/pleinelune2008002ne5.jpg
Taken from
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=17008.msg172650#msg172650
Notice that it takes on a striking orange hue because the picture seems to have been taken after a while from its rising. Had sister Marie taken the picture a little earlier then it would have appeared more red. Generally, the lower it is on the horizon or the more dusty is the atmosphere (such as in the desert of Arabia), the more red it would appear.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Ayman,
Full moons come in all sorts of colors and names...
http//www.farmersalmanac.com/full-moon-namesJuly 18, 2008 (Ramadan North) was not a moon illusion (obvious from that picture).
Ignoring 13th ?no-name? is no different than intercalation and did not count largest scorching full moon illusion this year.
http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/16jun_moonillusion.htm
This is baseless since you don?t seem to know the meaning of the Arabic word ?ramadan? and are thus unable to translate it.
I see, you are back to acting the Pompous Sheik (great pseudonym if you ever want to change)... lol laugh
People fasting during Ramadan North
People fasting during Ramadan South
Fasting 4 months and 3 months for same offense/vow committed on different dates
Full moon illusions happen periodically during the seasons at different monthsHere is one during mid September 2008 in Southern Hemisphere...
http//www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24363112-5006784,00.htmlFor reasons above and others stated prior I have to disagree with "baseless" conjecture shahr/full moon.
http//www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,6256089,00.jpg
PeaceFly me to the moon ...
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Peace Nun,
Full moons come in all sorts of colors and names...
http//www.farmersalmanac.com/full-moon-names
July 18, 2008 (Ramadan North) was not a moon illusion (obvious from that picture).
Ignoring 13th ?no-name? is no different than intercalation and did not count largest scorching full moon illusion this year.
http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/16jun_moonillusion.htmAs I said, you assume that "ramadan" is meaningless despite that I already explained it and that you can look it up in dictionaries. The "ramadan/scorching full-moon" is about BOTH heat and red color. Only the solstice full-moon after the summer solstice satisfies both.
I see, you are back to acting the Pompous Sheik (great pseudonym if you ever want to change)... lol laugh
Pompous Sheik, now that is a great idea for a Halloween costume! laugh
But seriously, it is better than ignoring the key word "ramadan" in 2185 and assuming that it is meaningless.
People fasting during Ramadan North
People fasting during Ramadan South
Fasting 4 months and 3 months for same offense/vow committed on different dates
Full moon illusions happen periodically during the seasons at different monthsNo, only the full-moon around the summer solstice take the lowest path accross the horizon. You are contradicting the very article from NASA that you brought about the solitice moon being special
http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/16jun_moonillusion.htm
Here is one during mid September 2008 in Southern Hemisphere...
http//www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24363112-5006784,00.html
For reasons above and others stated prior I have to disagree with "baseless" conjecture shahr/full moon.You are of course free to disagree with NASA and me as well as disagree with the god for using the word "ramadan" and therefore assume that it is meaningless.
Peace,
Ayman
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"Shahr Ramadan, which the Quran was descended in it, guidance to the people, and evidences from the guidance...
I'll leave you with the above evidences -- there is only one Ramadan.
Peace
And only one Leilat ul Qadr in which the Quran was descended, guidance to the people of the whole world.
peace -
And only one Leilat ul Qadr in which the Quran was descended, guidance to the people of the whole world.
peaceBrother Ayman salam
So, finally I see someone pointing a valid pot hole on the way to the full moon theory, we need to adress this issue.
The night of decree, in which the The great reading was desended, and the angels and spirit descend down in it, by thy lords leave, to carry out every command....
siki
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Peace Siki,
So, finally I see someone pointing a valid pot hole on the way to the full moon theory, we need to adress this issue.
The night of decree, in which the The great reading was desended, and the angels and spirit descend down in it, by thy lords leave, to carry out every command....Do you think that the night of measure happened only once ever?
Also, why do you think it is called the night of measure? What is the great reading telling us about what is being measured?
Peace,
Ayman
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peace brother Ayman
Apparently , I understand that Quran was sent down on the night of shahr ramadan where Mohammad (pbuh) lived, and was the night of decree, for that particular year. Before, as well as from then on,the angels and the spirit have been descending down on every such night to tweek and set the parameters for the next year.
You think they do it twice a year, on different times for Northerners and southerners?
Actually I havn't delibrated this issue in my mind , so any input from your side ?
siki
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Peace all,
Thanks Ayman for clarifying that point. It did get confused for me but I looked again at the full moon listing you posted earlier and yes, it needs to be skipped. My mistake however doesn't take away from the clarity of the verses on the issue that the 4 ashhur hurum are consistent. Here's another verse that I overlooked to mention
596 Made lawful for you all is the game of the sea and its food as provision for you all and the travelers and made unlawful upon you all is the game of the land as long as you are 'huruman' (prohibited/ restricted). And fear the god whom to Him you are being gathered.
So, finally I see someone pointing a valid pot hole on the way to the full moon theory, we need to adress this issue.
The night of decree, in which the The great reading was desended, and the angels and spirit descend down in it, by thy lords leave, to carry out every command....
siki
To Siki,
Curiously, what are you seeing as the pothole? This was actually one of the verses to show that 'shahr' must mean 'full moon' since a full moon is also a night event. This keeps the verses consistent and precise. Or are you making another point here?
Umm Tariq
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Peace Siki,
Apparently , I understand that Quran was sent down on the night of shahr ramadan where Mohammad (pbuh) lived, and was the night of decree, for that particular year. Before, as well as from then on,the angels and the spirit have been descending down on every such night to tweek and set the parameters for the next year.
You think they do it twice a year, on different times for Northerners and southerners?
Actually I havn't delibrated this issue in my mind , so any input from your side ?At this stage, I believe that the answer to my second question is more important than the answer to the first one. So it is more important to answer the following questions
Why is it described as the night of measure? What is the great reading telling us about what is being measured?
In terms of the context of the timing and the night what is being measured? In this context, I think that it is the moon that is being measured as per 3639 and 105. The night of measure would be the night when this measurement of the moon starts. So the next question is when exactly does the measurement of the moon starts? In both 3639 and 105, we are told that the moon is measured in descending stages ("manazil". 3639 specifically states that the moon is measured in descending stages until it becomes like an old curved sheath (i.e., a crescent). So what shape does the moon descend from in stages until it becomes a crescent? This clearly can only be the full-moon. So this is the starting point of the measurement (i.e., the night of measure). So if one goes strictly by the definition given in 3639 and 105 then the night of measure is the night of the full-moon.
Of course, the night of a scorching full-moon by definition would also be a night of measure.
I think that, as you said, the scorching full-moon and thus the night of measure could happen twice a year, once for Northerners and another for Southerners so the night of measure could be twice a year. This is one possibility.
At this stage, I think it is more probable and logical that the night of measure is any night with a full moon.
In this case, the night of a scorching full-moon by definition would also be a night of measure, but not vice-versa.
At any rate, each point on earth along the direction of its rotation will have a different start of the night within the earth's 24 hour cycle. So the idea that the night of measure happens exactly at the same time for everyone, even within the same hemisphere is not grounded in reality to begin with and Nun's objection would equally apply to the traditional understanding.
Chapter 97 talks about the controllers and the spirit descending. It also talks about this night being peaceful until dawn. Yet, there is no evidence of any particular night of the year where crime is less than any other night or where wars suddenly stopped or people don't get murdered. So there is a lot about Chapter 97 that we don't understand. Perhaps the god is talking about this being a night of peace only with the awareness and realization of what this night is. I think that it goes back to our perception, since as far as the god is concerned, the moon is only one moon. The stages are just an optical effect in the narrow band of the human visible electromagnetic spectrum.
These are deep philosophical questions but we wouldn't be asking them if we hadn't reached a better understanding. If we were still content with the traditional way, we wouldn't be asking them. So I think that we are on the right track to reach a new level of understanding.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace,
Curiously, what are you seeing as the pothole? This was actually one of the verses to show that 'shahr' must mean 'full moon' since a full moon is also a night event.
Full moons also happen during the day as this year and next three years...
Saudi Arabia ? Makkah (Ramadan North)
http//www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?n=151&month=7&year=2008&obj=moon&afl=-11&day=1Jul 18, 2008 Full at 1059 AM
Jul 7, 2009 Full at 1222 PM
Jun 26, 2010 Full at 231 PM
Jul 15, 2011 Full at 940 AMJohannesburg, South Africa (No Ramadan South)
http//www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?obj=moon&month=7&year=2008&obj=moon&afl=-11&day=1&n=111Jul 18, 2008 Full at 959 AM
Jul 7, 2009 Full at 1122 AM
Jun 26, 2010 Full at 131 PM
Jul 15, 2011 Full at 840 AMI think that, as you said, the scorching full-moon and thus the night of measure could happen twice a year, once for Northerners and another for Southerners so the night of measure could be twice a year. This is one possibility.
I think not, night is simultaneous in both the north and south hemispheres.
http//www.goglobalwarmingawareness2007.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/800px-earth-lighting-equinox_en.png
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Peace,
Full moons also happen during the day as this year and next three years...
I think not, night is simultaneous in both the north and south hemispheres.
Well done Nun peace
Peace Ayman
I think your thinking line is correct.
siki
Siki...How can you close your eyes to all the facts that Nun presented above and say (to Ayman) "I think your thinking line is correct"? nope
Your Propagnda to distort the truth is so obvious. But know that God will always show his Light to the believers no matter how many try to trun off.
All your and Ayman's Sect argumants are not based on Well-established Quranic Verses (or Signs). Thus, your Arrgumants = 0
Please read 3-7 to undserstand about people who do that.Again, well-done Nun.
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;D
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Peace anthony
So, what are you getting out from this Thread? Can you see the Truth?
peace
I havent really been following this thread latly. I havent been getting nothing out of it really, my mind somewere else right now. All I see is a bunch of blah blah blah and moons and calenders and all that other stuff and long posts with no evedence and I havent made time to study it.
But your posts do catch my attention thoe.
peace
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peace
I havent really been following this thread latly. I havent been getting nothing out of it really, my mind somewere else right now. All I see is a bunch of blah blah blah and moons and calenders and all that other stuff and long posts with no evedence and I havent made time to study it.
But your posts do catch my attention thoe.
peace
Peace;
I agree with you that most of what were posted are circular arguments. But the Quran argumants are not circular but straight ones; thus, behold your Quran when things become confusing. Look for the verses that were posted and collect them; and when you do, find a way to understand them, by which non of the verses is canceled out by other (God's verses will allways match).peace
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Brothers Nun and Belalhammad Peace.
Please consider the following facts.
"There is permanent night on half of the moon , and it's dark side has never witnessed the sun"
"Planet Venus's night equals 117 earth nights, and is the only planet which rotates clockwise, and hence the sun rises from the west, and sets in the east"
Now, being in knowledge of these facts , How can one not believe in Ayman's Red moon theory?
siki
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Peace siki,
Brothers Nun and Belalhammad Peace.
Please consider the following facts.
"There is permanent night on half of the moon , and it's dark side has never witnessed the sun"
"Planet Venus's night equals 117 earth nights, and is the only planet which rotates clockwise, and hence the sun rises from the west, and sets in the east"
Now, being in knowledge of these facts , How can one not believe in Ayman's Red moon theory?
siki
There is no "dark side" of the moon unless talking about Pink Floyd...lol
The moon get sunlight half the time same as earth because the moon also spins.We see the light side; they are in sync like a man/earth swinging a rope/gravity with ball/moon at the end.
Strange Sun, Earth & Moon Coincidences
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5h_qoHCn7kThis is irrelevant to the topic and there are countless other mysteries in the universe...
Are Cold Fusion reactors and Quantum Computers possible?
Do protons decay?
Does time decay?
Are Black holes, Dark matter, String theory, Super-symmetry ? is ?theory of everything? or even this life real?632 And the life the present/worldly life is not except playing/amusement and play things, and (the) end's (other life's) home (is) better to those who are righteous, so do you not reason?
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Peace,
Im starting to think. What similarities does Ramadan, and christian/Jewish fasting have?
I mean dont they also fast?
Rosh Hashanah
At the begining of the new year.. a little similar to what Ayman was saying.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosh_Hashanah
It just leads back to the idea that perhaps previus scripture is important.Peace