Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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And only one Leilat ul Qadr in which the Quran was descended, guidance to the people of the whole world.
peaceBrother Ayman salam
So, finally I see someone pointing a valid pot hole on the way to the full moon theory, we need to adress this issue.
The night of decree, in which the The great reading was desended, and the angels and spirit descend down in it, by thy lords leave, to carry out every command....
siki
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Peace Siki,
So, finally I see someone pointing a valid pot hole on the way to the full moon theory, we need to adress this issue.
The night of decree, in which the The great reading was desended, and the angels and spirit descend down in it, by thy lords leave, to carry out every command....Do you think that the night of measure happened only once ever?
Also, why do you think it is called the night of measure? What is the great reading telling us about what is being measured?
Peace,
Ayman
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peace brother Ayman
Apparently , I understand that Quran was sent down on the night of shahr ramadan where Mohammad (pbuh) lived, and was the night of decree, for that particular year. Before, as well as from then on,the angels and the spirit have been descending down on every such night to tweek and set the parameters for the next year.
You think they do it twice a year, on different times for Northerners and southerners?
Actually I havn't delibrated this issue in my mind , so any input from your side ?
siki
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Peace all,
Thanks Ayman for clarifying that point. It did get confused for me but I looked again at the full moon listing you posted earlier and yes, it needs to be skipped. My mistake however doesn't take away from the clarity of the verses on the issue that the 4 ashhur hurum are consistent. Here's another verse that I overlooked to mention
596 Made lawful for you all is the game of the sea and its food as provision for you all and the travelers and made unlawful upon you all is the game of the land as long as you are 'huruman' (prohibited/ restricted). And fear the god whom to Him you are being gathered.
So, finally I see someone pointing a valid pot hole on the way to the full moon theory, we need to adress this issue.
The night of decree, in which the The great reading was desended, and the angels and spirit descend down in it, by thy lords leave, to carry out every command....
siki
To Siki,
Curiously, what are you seeing as the pothole? This was actually one of the verses to show that 'shahr' must mean 'full moon' since a full moon is also a night event. This keeps the verses consistent and precise. Or are you making another point here?
Umm Tariq
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Peace Siki,
Apparently , I understand that Quran was sent down on the night of shahr ramadan where Mohammad (pbuh) lived, and was the night of decree, for that particular year. Before, as well as from then on,the angels and the spirit have been descending down on every such night to tweek and set the parameters for the next year.
You think they do it twice a year, on different times for Northerners and southerners?
Actually I havn't delibrated this issue in my mind , so any input from your side ?At this stage, I believe that the answer to my second question is more important than the answer to the first one. So it is more important to answer the following questions
Why is it described as the night of measure? What is the great reading telling us about what is being measured?
In terms of the context of the timing and the night what is being measured? In this context, I think that it is the moon that is being measured as per 3639 and 105. The night of measure would be the night when this measurement of the moon starts. So the next question is when exactly does the measurement of the moon starts? In both 3639 and 105, we are told that the moon is measured in descending stages ("manazil". 3639 specifically states that the moon is measured in descending stages until it becomes like an old curved sheath (i.e., a crescent). So what shape does the moon descend from in stages until it becomes a crescent? This clearly can only be the full-moon. So this is the starting point of the measurement (i.e., the night of measure). So if one goes strictly by the definition given in 3639 and 105 then the night of measure is the night of the full-moon.
Of course, the night of a scorching full-moon by definition would also be a night of measure.
I think that, as you said, the scorching full-moon and thus the night of measure could happen twice a year, once for Northerners and another for Southerners so the night of measure could be twice a year. This is one possibility.
At this stage, I think it is more probable and logical that the night of measure is any night with a full moon.
In this case, the night of a scorching full-moon by definition would also be a night of measure, but not vice-versa.
At any rate, each point on earth along the direction of its rotation will have a different start of the night within the earth's 24 hour cycle. So the idea that the night of measure happens exactly at the same time for everyone, even within the same hemisphere is not grounded in reality to begin with and Nun's objection would equally apply to the traditional understanding.
Chapter 97 talks about the controllers and the spirit descending. It also talks about this night being peaceful until dawn. Yet, there is no evidence of any particular night of the year where crime is less than any other night or where wars suddenly stopped or people don't get murdered. So there is a lot about Chapter 97 that we don't understand. Perhaps the god is talking about this being a night of peace only with the awareness and realization of what this night is. I think that it goes back to our perception, since as far as the god is concerned, the moon is only one moon. The stages are just an optical effect in the narrow band of the human visible electromagnetic spectrum.
These are deep philosophical questions but we wouldn't be asking them if we hadn't reached a better understanding. If we were still content with the traditional way, we wouldn't be asking them. So I think that we are on the right track to reach a new level of understanding.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace,
Curiously, what are you seeing as the pothole? This was actually one of the verses to show that 'shahr' must mean 'full moon' since a full moon is also a night event.
Full moons also happen during the day as this year and next three years...
Saudi Arabia ? Makkah (Ramadan North)
http//www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?n=151&month=7&year=2008&obj=moon&afl=-11&day=1Jul 18, 2008 Full at 1059 AM
Jul 7, 2009 Full at 1222 PM
Jun 26, 2010 Full at 231 PM
Jul 15, 2011 Full at 940 AMJohannesburg, South Africa (No Ramadan South)
http//www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?obj=moon&month=7&year=2008&obj=moon&afl=-11&day=1&n=111Jul 18, 2008 Full at 959 AM
Jul 7, 2009 Full at 1122 AM
Jun 26, 2010 Full at 131 PM
Jul 15, 2011 Full at 840 AMI think that, as you said, the scorching full-moon and thus the night of measure could happen twice a year, once for Northerners and another for Southerners so the night of measure could be twice a year. This is one possibility.
I think not, night is simultaneous in both the north and south hemispheres.
http//www.goglobalwarmingawareness2007.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/800px-earth-lighting-equinox_en.png
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Peace,
Full moons also happen during the day as this year and next three years...
I think not, night is simultaneous in both the north and south hemispheres.
Well done Nun peace
Peace Ayman
I think your thinking line is correct.
siki
Siki...How can you close your eyes to all the facts that Nun presented above and say (to Ayman) "I think your thinking line is correct"? nope
Your Propagnda to distort the truth is so obvious. But know that God will always show his Light to the believers no matter how many try to trun off.
All your and Ayman's Sect argumants are not based on Well-established Quranic Verses (or Signs). Thus, your Arrgumants = 0
Please read 3-7 to undserstand about people who do that.Again, well-done Nun.
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;D
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Peace anthony
So, what are you getting out from this Thread? Can you see the Truth?
peace
I havent really been following this thread latly. I havent been getting nothing out of it really, my mind somewere else right now. All I see is a bunch of blah blah blah and moons and calenders and all that other stuff and long posts with no evedence and I havent made time to study it.
But your posts do catch my attention thoe.
peace
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peace
I havent really been following this thread latly. I havent been getting nothing out of it really, my mind somewere else right now. All I see is a bunch of blah blah blah and moons and calenders and all that other stuff and long posts with no evedence and I havent made time to study it.
But your posts do catch my attention thoe.
peace
Peace;
I agree with you that most of what were posted are circular arguments. But the Quran argumants are not circular but straight ones; thus, behold your Quran when things become confusing. Look for the verses that were posted and collect them; and when you do, find a way to understand them, by which non of the verses is canceled out by other (God's verses will allways match).peace
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Brothers Nun and Belalhammad Peace.
Please consider the following facts.
"There is permanent night on half of the moon , and it's dark side has never witnessed the sun"
"Planet Venus's night equals 117 earth nights, and is the only planet which rotates clockwise, and hence the sun rises from the west, and sets in the east"
Now, being in knowledge of these facts , How can one not believe in Ayman's Red moon theory?
siki
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Peace siki,
Brothers Nun and Belalhammad Peace.
Please consider the following facts.
"There is permanent night on half of the moon , and it's dark side has never witnessed the sun"
"Planet Venus's night equals 117 earth nights, and is the only planet which rotates clockwise, and hence the sun rises from the west, and sets in the east"
Now, being in knowledge of these facts , How can one not believe in Ayman's Red moon theory?
siki
There is no "dark side" of the moon unless talking about Pink Floyd...lol
The moon get sunlight half the time same as earth because the moon also spins.We see the light side; they are in sync like a man/earth swinging a rope/gravity with ball/moon at the end.
Strange Sun, Earth & Moon Coincidences
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5h_qoHCn7kThis is irrelevant to the topic and there are countless other mysteries in the universe...
Are Cold Fusion reactors and Quantum Computers possible?
Do protons decay?
Does time decay?
Are Black holes, Dark matter, String theory, Super-symmetry ? is ?theory of everything? or even this life real?632 And the life the present/worldly life is not except playing/amusement and play things, and (the) end's (other life's) home (is) better to those who are righteous, so do you not reason?
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Peace,
Im starting to think. What similarities does Ramadan, and christian/Jewish fasting have?
I mean dont they also fast?
Rosh Hashanah
At the begining of the new year.. a little similar to what Ayman was saying.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosh_Hashanah
It just leads back to the idea that perhaps previus scripture is important.Peace
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Peace siki,
There is no "dark side" of the moon unless talking about Pink Floyd...lol
The moon get sunlight half the time same as earth because the moon also spins.We see the light side; they are in sync like a man/earth swinging a rope/gravity with ball/moon at the end.
yes Oh , yes , you are right,
so , that means Ayman's theory is wrong, i suppose. confused
siki
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Peace Siki,
yes Oh , yes , you are right,
so , that means Ayman's theory is wrong, i suppose. confusedThe "dark side of the moon" is a misnomer. It is really the "far side of the moon" (relative to earth). I am not sure what this has to do with anything. All the phases of the moon are just optical phenomena that we perceive and no part of the moon actualy vanishes from existence when it is a crescent. It is always one and the same moon.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace,
Im starting to think. What similarities does Ramadan, and christian/Jewish fasting have?
I mean dont they also fast?
Rosh Hashanah
At the begining of the new year.. a little similar to what Ayman was saying.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosh_Hashanah
It just leads back to the idea that perhaps previus scripture is important.Peace
Peace
The followig is quotations from your link, which shows that Jewish used to use Lunar Year, and they calculate the month from New Moon (Waxing Crescent) to the next New Moon (Moon Cycel).
Begin Quote
Jewish Year Starts (at sundown)
5769 29 September 2008
5770 18 September 2009
5771 08 September 2010Since the time of the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem in 70 CE and the time of Rabban Yohanan ben Zakkai, normative Jewish law appears to be that Rosh Hashanah is to be celebrated for two days, due to the difficulty of determining the date of the new moon.
End Quote
They did what Ayman Believes we should do "Ignore the Waxing Crescent". Also, please note how there year is less than Solar Year by 10 days (They use Luar Year)
Salam